Ed LeDoux

On those steps we have several identified individuals whom have no recorded recollection of Baker's entry barring Sanders. They are standing there eyes open looking to the area where Baker is coming from.
Was Baker very light on his feet and as stealthy as has been ascribed to Oswalds movements as to be unheard and virtually unseen??
I think the interaction with Oswald at the entrance was observed by some yet they have distanced themselves from any such sightings.

Roy Lewis doesn't mention a helmeted cop run past himself, no matter if he was inside or outside, he makes no mention of Baker, he does mention the colored boys from 5th floor.
Nothing about Oswald/Baker/Truly ...now how does that happen given his stated location. Why was he never questioned further except by Sneed(?) Seems he could answer whom were the last ones outside, whom entered, and where his boss and a helmeted cop ran to.

Here is a frame with a few things pointed out for ease of discussion,
TSG or tall suited guy is under red arrow.
Green arrow shows where railing is in center of steps.
Yellow shows Baker and how he would run behind (from the cameras perspective) Truly and others, but in front of TSG as TGS is near or at the buildings corner. He is at the corner when he stops and looks down towards the knoll, he is looking down Elm Street Extension.
TSG would not have even noticed Baker, IMO, as he Baker ran behind TSG whom was watching the other cop and crowd down the ext.
Baker was headed behind him and 'to the stair railing'. (unless Baker stopped on a dime, turned 90* to his left and rammed into the backs of several ladies)

Here is Darnell-Couch combined I did for Prayer Man the movie.

https://vimeo.com/144912367

Lets be clear, we are not looking at a button wearing woman, as those buttons go full frame across a womans head scarf and we also have wall buttons and Oswalds ear and head have buttons too if we use Duncans logic.

Duncan has manipulated the frame using poor photoshop skills.

And he has done this before, thus researchers and the unwitting will be using his faked images in perpetuity...........................................................................................................................................................................


Here is a link to a post in a different thread, on a different subject, where Duncan admits to fake's he has made to support one of his theories.
'Duncan MacRae', on 21 Jul 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

'Bernice Moore', on 21 Jul 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

Duncan: hi the small photo showing the officer behind the wall and whatever on the floor of such on the left, is not a known real photo, taken at the time is it?? it has been made by you or someone, in showing what you or they think happened, am i correct on this information ?? if so, then whomever has created that it is an altered phony photo for research, which, i have always been led to believe in the research is never allowed as it is creating disinformation.....i am not being mean here, but i do want to know for researchs sake, we only use what is real not what is created...or supposed.....thank you for the clarification ..take care..b

Hi Bernice, yes, It's a fake which was made by myself to compliment and complete my hypothetical scenario.from way back in 2009.
I believe that the theory originally came from someone at Lancer.
I stated that the small photograph was a fake in a thread a few years ago, and I should also have stated it here too for those who are unaware that this theory is nothing new.

Duncan

http://educationforu...10

Sorry I don't click on spam, bon voyage Captain Smith have a Titanic time on yer ferum.

shoddy outline gets the idea across.
A film clip helps,
Here is PM doing what everyone else is doing, sheilding the bright sun from their eyes.
https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CQLoDOPWIAA5MrP.mp4

Sleeved arm is holding...the other arm. Arms were crossed IMO. Nothing is being 'held' between hands. Based on anatomy alone.




Leaning back, sleeved arm and hand crossed over other arm and hand.



His other hand would be about where his right elbow is if he was "holding" something. The "other hand" is a reflection, or something else besides a hand. Please try standing with arms crossed, and then attempt the pose claimed by those saying he is "holding" or doing something. Post results and orthopedist bills for arm shortening and contortionist consultations below;



Best looks at Prayer Man make me instantly think Oswald.



Oswald got no fair play in Dallas.

You object to being inconsistently censored? Maybe the thing to do would have been to avoid censorship altogether. It really isn't that hard to do. In your case, it seems all you would have to do is avoid counting the number of Earth visits made by some posters here.

As one who also has been referred to as a paid disinformation agent and / or an idiot by Prudhomme, Duncan's transgressions were minor by comparison, IMHO. At least I wasn't accused of altering the images by others, as Duncan was.

I for one wish he wouldn't delete his posts.

Didn't anyone notice that Duncan correctly pointed out that Prayer Person's "buttons" were visible in the images which Sean had originally posted?

--Tommy

I might have thought he was right till I found other images which had the "buttons" running vertically in the frame and down a womans head scarf.

Duncan had 'adjusted' the brightness and contrast from the original to wash out the button artifact on the womans head scarf.

Duncan will admit his poor photo shop skills are what led to his own downfall.

Where as the image itself pre-duncan shows a different story.

Duncans claim to the buttons was a farce from the start but perpetuated by him using poor photo skills.

Given what we know about Dallas in the sixties under the auspices of Henry Wade and the indictment machine, I'd find it easy to belive Lee was innocent of these charges. Did someone set up a patsy? You better believe with a strong shove the case was locked on Oswald from 12:33pm on.

Is Prayer Man Lee Oswald? Why not? Folks like Macrae would rather manipulate the images than accept the fact of Oswald being where he claimed, out with Shelley.

Macrae would rather ignore Harry Holmes, whom specifically and explicitly describes Oswald as having been on the first floor during the shooting, and why the late questions of where Oswald was? Was not Will Fritz highly interested in exact locations and times,,,, not from the extant notes he wasn't.
The FBI's consternation that Lovelady was Oswald and standing in the Altgens 6 pic. is a clue the authorities had an inkling of where it was Oswald was claiming to be soon after the shooting.
Wesley Frazier's recent claim, that he saw Oswald come from around back and cross Houston St has its own pitfalls but goes squarely against the commissions unsubstantiated desire to have Oswald exit the front entrance at 12:33pm.
How did that work, take the time from last shot add time to get to second floor lunch room, add encounter time, add time to get to entrance from SFLR. 12:33
You can add or subtract a carbonated beverage purchase at your leisure.
What does all this mean?

By preponderance of the available evidence demonstrates how Oswald's rights were ignored, evidence while examined either ignored or altered (still being altered by Duncan's bad photoshop skills) and that no other person on planet earth claims they were standing in that location. Standing there for some time and as a white helmeted police officer runs past or possibly had an interaction with themselves and the building superintendent ..... well no one except Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Where were Oswald, Baker, Truly, Adams, Shelley, and Lovelady] :

A ) at the time of last shot, (Where were they)

B ) 1 minute post last shot (where did they go)

C ) and at 12:33 (when LHO was leaving the building)

Should be cake walk.

Holding breath now Tommy

I thought we already discussed the fact that Baker was never seen to approach the stairs in Darnell. And now you know which side of the stairs he went up? Are you clairvoyant?

Joe Molina did not see Baker ascend the front steps, even when Ball specifically asked Molina if he had seen a "white helmeted police officer" enter the TSBD. Molina did, though, see Roy Truly enter the TSBD. According to popular belief, Truly and Baker ascended the front steps together, supposedly on the same side of the centre railing. How did Molina see Truly, but not see Baker?

Dear Bob,

What do you mean "we don't see Baker approach the stairs in the Darnell clip"? What's your definition of "approach," anyway?

Doesn't "approach" mean to go towards something and get closer and closer to it?

If Baker wasn't running towards the steps and getting close to them, then why in the heck did the tall, suit-wearing guy at the foot of them sidestep out of his way and wave him up them with his left arm? (Yes, Bob, I'm aware of the fact that Baker veered and didn't run up the steps where the suit-wearing guy thought he was going to go.)

The tall, suit-wearing guy at the base of the steps obviously though Baker was going to run up the steps. Why did he think that? Answer: Because Baker was running like a madman towards them from across the street, and veered a little only when he was up on the sidewalk, close to them!

Haven't we already talked about this?

--Tommy

By the way, While we're "at" it, please tell us where you think the following people were

at 1 ) the time of the final shot), 2 ) one minute after the final shot, 3 ) three minutes after the final shot, and 4 ) five minutes after the final shot. No need to explain why you want them to be there, just where you want them to be.

1 ) Lee Harvey Oswald (the guy Ruby killed on 11/24/63)

2 ) Marion L. Baker

3 ) Roy S. Truly

4 ) Vicki Adams

5 ) Billy Lovelady

6 ) William H. Shelley

Thanks!

Sorry Tommy but your questions are from post #168 just to be clear.

And also that is 6 people x 5 timing locations or 30 BioChronoGeo estimations.

At roughly 1 "BioChronoGeo estimate" per day it could take several months for a reply.. what with holidays, travel, vacation, sick days,etc,.

I'd lower the bar and ask for an estimation

A) at the time of last shot, (Where were they)

1 minute post last shot (where did they go)

C) and at 12:33 (or 3 minute post when LHO is leaving the building)

Hopefully we can all get a better understanding this year using this reduced workload.

Thank you James,

Bob,

Pauline's FBI interview is unsigned, as with a trove of others, see CE 3154 and the list of FBI interviews.

Hester, Lawrence, Neuman, etc. doesn't detract from what was placed in that document.

It was not a statement that would be signed, but a report on an interview.

Thanks though.

I agree that PM presents the perfect enigma, and that pursuit of solving this enigma might be the most important research into the JFK assassination yet. I judge how close to the truth PM research has gotten by the almost panicked reactions of such LN super freaks as Duncan MacRae. This matter has the Dark Side deeply concerned, make no doubt about it.

However, in the process, let us not be so gullible as to swallow whole other "accepted" pieces of evidence in this investigation. For example, everyone simply "knows" that Baker was entering the front door of the TSBD within 15-22 seconds of the last shot. Excuse me for being a pest but, what proof is there that Baker immediately went up the TSBD steps, after crossing the Elm St. extension?

Ba Ba,

What evidence is there that Baker sprinted down to the corner to talk with one or two policemen, instead?

Did anyone say they saw him do that?

--Tommy

Tommy that amount of evidence would be zero,

What evidence is there Baker ran up the steps?

Pauline Sanders.

"She advised she could not recall the exact time but immediately after the presidential parade passed she heard three loud blasts and she immediately realized that the shots or whatever it was came from the building above her. She said within a matter of ten seconds a uniform police officer in a white helmet ran into the building but she did not observe him any further and could not state where he went in the building."

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/exhibits/ce1434.htm

That is what I thought, bad photoshop skills from MacRae.

Just proves my point he has poorly altered and manipulated the Darnell frame.

Hello Dawn

Funny, how you are also prepared to come on here to debate PM and yet Duncan-like won't allow any of us on DP to discuss it. What are you lot so afraid of?

It's false rumour spreading and false uneducated statements like the above which continually get you suspended.

Discussion of Prayer Person is allowed. Perpetual repetative spamming of Prayer Person as a promotional tool for ROKC propaganda and book sales is not allowed.

Learn the difference and you will be fine.

Duncan

Is it not true that those members from RoKC who support Prayer Man as Oswald are all banned from posting on your forum and Deep Politics?

What repetitive spamming are you referring to? I've posted one link to Stan's book on your site (and got almost instantaneously banned weeks ago). I've posted one link to Barto's film on your site (and got suspended almost instantaneously a few days ago).

Duncan, if you really are in good faith about Prayer Man and free speech why did you delete every comment I've ever made on your forum as well as the supposed offending comment?

As far as I'm aware that does not happen on any other forum when a member is suspended or banned. It certainly doesn't happen on the EF.

Frankly I'm still mystified as to why I was suspended this last time.

I am not going to argue with you, nor do I feel the need to explain myself to an ROKC suburdinate messenger minion.

I will say this, however.

I don't care what Dawn Meredith or the rest of the cognitively impaired disciples of Jim DiEugenio's ( A knew B, B knew C, so logically C knew A ) brainwashed gullible goofballs at DP do or don't do regarding the Prayer person issue, or anything else for that matter.

They only visit Earth occassionally, and besides, It's none of my business.

Regarding the JFK Assassination Forum:

Any forum with MacRae at the helm is equal to a cruise on the Titanic.... bon voyage.

Perhaps DM can explain his photoshopping skills and how to dishonestly examine PM images?

Stan has taken the original image from the source and attempted to duplicate what is seen in Duncan's "adjusted" images. Stan was unable to replicate it. So this is not merely a play of contrast, gamma or any other "adjustment" as his minions say. NO! or else it would be easily replicated by such adjustments.

Duncan's (stinky) shows colors, interesting as this is a black and white film.

Recall these were with the Credit: Duncan on them so no wiggle room that it was not DM.

Manipulate much there Duncan?

So Credit Duncan with painting the area to Prayer Man's left black.

Why would this be necessary??? Could it be due to the ghost image of a face in the red oval, and repeated below the oval.

This face seems to be a womans face in profile with a head scarf.

Since Prayer Man is not in profile do not fall for what will be Dumcan and friends claims that its the face of prayer woman.

What the face and Duncan's attempts to black it out show are how dishonest he really is about Prayer Man.

Duncan has sour grapes for breakfast, lunch and he's just been served his supper.

Seems this thread is nothing more than a statement and should be deleted.

Why not do us a favor and hide all the threads here...

Thanks for this thread Tommy,

Could be, but isn't Truly farther back near the building, on the sidewalk, as Baker runs by him as seen in the Darnell/Wiegman clips?
If so can you demonstrate Trulys movement between said position next to "OV" and where he is when Baker runs past.
Or a closer comparrison of know Truly images and the Suited man.

That could be her face sticking out Tommy.

How was it shown the lady in Homicide office is Jeraldean Bray Reid (Mrs. Robert A. Reid)?
I thought last word was woman in the office due to dress, age, purse, gloves, coat, and other accoutrements did not match and thus was not her.
What provenance do we have for the picture so far Tommy? Who took it and when?

Saturday 23rd report:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/09/0958-002.gifJA REID AFFIDAVIT MENTIONED


http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1529-001.gif OV Campbell


Plus Jim Leavelle can stick this report below in his butt as he does not know what it takes to be pre-med and take 18-21 credit hours a semester when everyone else is taking 12, plus working part time!! Jim Leavelle shows his ignorance. And if anyone was to be chatted up by Ruby it would be someone whom is a higher class person looking to become a doctor. And if said student was looking to open a lounge even more reason for a conversation with Ruby.
The person introduced may likely be Crafard.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1576-001.gif

In Weisberg's book Whitewash 2, he quotes from Baker's first day affidavit, about the 3rd or 4th floor. (See page 42.)

He then shows how this evolved over time into something else in another affidavit by Baker which contradicts the first one. (See page 44)

He then writes that certain documents he found since his first book, "destroy the basic parts of Baker's story" as portrayed in the WR. (ibid, p. 42)

Johnson said Baker identified Oswald as the man on the fourth floor. Harold refers to Johnson taking an affidavit from Baker. Which is what led me to Johnson.

If you are willing to do that kind of cheap smear against me, you can count me out of speaking at your conference.

And goodbye Greg.

Geez getting a little bent outta shape Di.

"Mr. Weisberg followed this book, which was republished by Dell in 1966, with ''Whitewash II.'' That book presents a close examination the Zapruder film and questions the time sequence accepted by the Warren Commission."

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/04/us/harold-weisberg-88-critic-of-inquiry-in-kennedy-death.html

Ny Times must have missed it too Jim.

I find no one saying HW was theorizing the LunchRoomEncounter (LRE) did not happen, but that its timing was suspect for the LRE.

I.E. that LHO was never on Six because he was in the LR.

or

(If someone wants to propose that Baker was referring to the lunchroom door, though ...... As Harold Weisberg has said, "The Baker-Oswald timing was too close" ...

If anything nears Greg's idea it was Jerry Rose in The Third Decade where Rose states LRE may never have occured due to Bakers statements and admissions.

and in his letter to HW in 1984:

"Your own work on M.L. baker in Whitewash II influenced

one aspect of the analysis." Jerry Rose to Weisberg

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48722#relPageId=26&tab=page

This shows Weisberg was instrurmental in setting the stage but he didn't write the play.

Your move.

I'm pretty sure many folks have taken the research of others. Some have built on them. Some have given the works of others credit where due; many have not. Unfortunately, that HAS become the nature of JFK assassination research. Some folks expect to make money from what the publish; others simply seek the truth.

And we all already know what I just posted.

In truth, most of us have no idea who FIRST put forth any of the revelations that have come out since November 22, 1963. I know that I'm not "Google" enough to know who was first with every discovery. MOST of us aren't. I can't dispute Greg Parker's claims because I simply don't have the information to do so. Neither do 99.9% of the people who visit this site.

Then again, I have no grounds [ulterior or otherwise] to dispute his claims, either.

I can't dispute Greg Parker's claims depends on which 'claims'. If he's referring to the 'first time anyone ever questioned Baker's story was 13 or 15 years ago. Then I'd say 'not likely'. It's obvious from the records that there was clearly a discrepancy no later than 11/24/63. It's hard to believe that 'no one' questioned that for 35 years.

Kenneth,

I'm not for a minute disputing no one ever questioned Baker's story. You guys keep repeating the same refrain and I keep agreeing with you. This is a mountain of proof for such questioning. But you all keep avoiding the actual issue I'm raising - that is that no one ever specifically put forward that the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter was false in its entirety.

As for the discrepancies between Baker and Truly's first day statements - no one questioned that. Why? Because Baker's statement got buried and he was kept away from the media. In all of the subsequent years when he was interviewed or questioned - including by the WC and BBC trial - no one - NO ONE ever produced Baker's first days statement, waved it front of him and grilled him about it.

So your whole premise that it seems impossible to you that no one ever questioned it in all that time, is based on a false assumption that everyone was aware of what he originally said. They were not. It was deep-sixed.

is based on a false assumption that everyone was aware of what he originally said. I'm sure I heard the story back at the time that Baker said he had encountered LHO in his search of the building. Hundreds of stories were run on all the channels back then and they put everyone that wanted to be on tv on to tell their stories. I know I heard of the encounter. I did not write a book saying that I didn't believe the story,, I just took it for what it was. I do know just from what I see now that on day one, Truly said the encounter was in the lunchroom. As far as I know, the stories were told independently on 11/23 with Baker saying 3rd or 4th floor and Truly saying 2nd floor lunchroom. Were they both supposed to say the same thing. Is it possible that was part of the conspiracy. Sure.

Baker was kept away from the media until he got on board the 2nd floor lunchroom story. There was no lunchroom on the 3rd or 4th floors - no door with window to look through. Baker's man was 30 years old, 165 pounds and wearing a brown jacket. It was not Oswald. It was not on the 2nd floor.

I did not come to this via any one else's work. I came to it by having the time and discipline to force myself back in 2001 to read through every single DPD file.

Next these jokers will try and take away Sean Murphy finding PM is Oswald, even tough some looked at the image but never questioned it could have been LHO before Sean did. Sean and Greg and many others whom broke ground deserve to be credited for such.

A good researcher will go back and see where and if a similar idea was presented, what became of the research and why it never made the leap.

Just as Greg is showing here.

Sorry Greg I "thought" this same thing.

I can't prove it.

But by my saying I did and before you did I am obviously the originator....

I've seen some of my work in other webpages without credit.

Some real pieces of work around these parts

Gee, Ed, I'm sure you'll be disappointed to learn that I did a Google search for you and couldn't find any quotes attributed to you. So whatever you said, if it lives on, it's by quotes from others. Sorry.

Sorry to learn your search was empty, by that I mean no quotes attributed to you.

My quotes are here and on many forums, so no they live on as my words.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ed+ledoux+jfk&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Although some researches do give proper credit like Hasan.

http://jfkthelonegunmanmyth.blogspot.com/2014/09/a-few-words-on-former-dpd-captain.html

Its not just words but the ideas, like Greg has shown, have been copied and used as their own without proper credit.

Much is gone like material at Lancer I developed.

But yet a simple google of Ed Ledoux did return results. Research that is original. Hatbadge Man, Bus Transfer, etc, are proof. Other sites quoting that research is proof.

Ed, Great post. Although I can't make out a "couple" in the second photo, .... [quote name='Ed LeDoux' post='86311' date='Dec 25 2006, 05:44 ...

Sorry Greg I "thought" this same thing.

I can't prove it.

But by my saying I did and before you did I am obviously the originator....

I've seen some of my work in other webpages without credit.

Some real pieces of work around these parts

I wish somebody would plagiarize me.

--Tommy

Tommy! You devil. ;-)

Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired?

Looking for a new employee to fill a sudden vacancy.

LEE HARVEY OSWALD -- "What is this all about? I know my rights. .... Police officer been killed? I hear they burn for murder."

POLICE OFFICER C.T. WALKER -- "You might find out."

LEE HARVEY OSWALD -- "Well, they say it just takes a second to die."

Reads like a bad movie script...

Sorry Ian, even the Writers Guild has standards.

Sorry Greg I "thought" this same thing.
I can't prove it.
But by my saying I did and before you did I am obviously the originator....

I've seen some of my work in other webpages without credit.
Some real pieces of work around these parts

Should add a "toothfairy" page Greg.

Greg, never tell the zoo animals they are caged.
Natural Enclosure is the correct term.

No wonder DVP is from Indiana. That is where the Indy 500 is run, you know, going in circles all day. It fits him.
As long as he keeps the zoo animals chasing their tails he wins the race!

If anything Greg is rattling your cages trying to wake you up.... H & L