Ed LeDoux

Yes Gene It is fascinating how when examined these fable stories fall apart at the seams.

The closest the Johnson's and Earlene got to a Police Lineup was the television images. 

There is the problem as to FBI agents. I dont believe there were any at the Beckley search. Plain clothes detectives of Fritzs are hard to confuse with FBI. The cops "knew better" as they had their patsy framed for maximum effect.

Odd they knew Oswald lived there yet do not get a search warrant for LHO or even OH LEE.

Yes a new baby etc, yet no visits by family or friends... even though its was claimed a Russian speaking man knew to call and ask for Mr. Lee (wink wink)

What a joke, joke on us for 50+ years

Time to see what holds up to scrutiny 

What makes sense, what is natural and logical.

Apply this to the stories and evidence. The results are Lee was framed by the police and FBI and robbed of his alibi in both murder cases, JFK & Tippit.

The map is another bit that needs examined.

"Ruth said she gave him the map on Oct 7 for finding his way looking for work - no mention of using it to find his way to boarding houses! He finds Bledsoe's non-boarding house all by himself, we are led to believe.
Michael here generally avoids any direct answers though finally admitting to marking the Paine residence. Saying he put that there, but it was prior to September '62 when he moved out."

Mr. PAINE - This is the kind of map that I always used, stopping in stations when I am out of one so I always have one in my car, and when the FBI showed me this particular map, which I trust is the same one I looked at before. I found on the back side a mark where it shows the whole map of the whole area, the Dallas-Fort Worth area, a little mark where our house is, that is the kind of mark that I would make when I was trying to buy some land earlier and had in mind for a long time and I wanted to find the location that was accessible to the places I would then want to go.
Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell us--
Mr. PAINE - This mark is still here.
Representative Form. This is the mark or can you identify that mark that you placed on this map?
Mr. PAINE - Yes, I think I see a mark here of the sort which looks reasonable to me. I think it is the only mark on this side of the map. Generally, I didn't make marks on the other side of the map.
Mr. LIEBELER - In your statement referring to one side of the map you were referring to the side that shows a map of the entire Fort Worth-Dallas area, is that correct?
Mr. PAINE - That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER - And you say as best you can see there is only one mark on this side of the map?
Mr. PAINE - That is the only one that is here, that I remember having found. I don't remember finding another one.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember putting that mark on the map?
Mr. PAINE - I remember putting--I think I put this kind of mark on more than one map. That is our house. It then helps locate it with regard to all the arteries and what not that lead to various places.
Mr. LIEBELER - You do think then it is probable that you did place the mark on the map that indicates the location of your house in Irving, Tex.; is that correct?
Mr. PAINE - Yes, I think that is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know whether or not Oswald ever came into possession of this map?
Mr. PAINE - And Ruth gave Oswald a map to--she told me she gave him a map, and this is the kind we have around the house, the best one she could get in the service station, to help him find a job, or help him when he was searching for a job.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember any other conversations with your wife about the map before the assassination?
Mr. PAINE - No, I don't believe she told me she had given him the map. I don't believe we discussed it at all.
Mr. LIEBELER - Would you open the map to the portion that shows the area of Dallas. I call your attention to a mark at the intersection of Boll Street and San Jacinto, and ask you if you have any recollection of placing that mark on the map?
Mr. PAINE - No, I don't have any recollection of placing that mark on the map.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember any circumstances that might make it likely that you placed that mark on the map?
Mr. PAINE - I could have placed that mark on the map when I was looking for properties. I went down to the courthouse to get plats of the areas that I was thinking of buying, and they had a copy of the plat, and so they sent it out late on Saturday, short of 12 o'clock, and just short of closing, and it was a reproduction company at that address or near that address.
Mr. LIEBELER - Is that the L. L. Ridgway Co.?
Mr. PAINE - Yes. That is the company that I am referring to. I don't know exactly.
Mr. LIEBELER - But it is near the intersection we have just referred to?
Mr. PAINE - I will take your word for that.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know that it is?
Mr. PAINE - No, I don't know. I think the FBI man said it was. 1 hadn't looked into it and didn't check it.
Mr. LIEBELER - You haven't any knowledge at this point whether the Ridgway company is in this intersection or not?
Mr. PAINE - I remember it is right beside the expressway and in about that area. I don't remember the names of the roads.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think it is probable or improbable that you placed the mark on the map, the one we have just been talking about, at Boil and San Jacinto Streets?
Mr. PAINE - I remember in asking the clerk where it was, and I had a map of this sort, that was also in August when I was looking for places. I would have guessed I would not. I would have been able to see where it was and know in my mind where I wanted to go.
Mr. DULLES - Is that the same kind of a mark or a different kind of mark that is on the other side of the map to which we have just referred, the area map?
Mr. PAINE - It is a different mark. That mark that is on the other side of the map to which we have just referred, the area map, was our house. So I made a little square that I can see and indicate a house rather than--generally I don't make marks on maps. I look up where I want to go and I go.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did your wife tell you when she had given this map to Oswald?
Mr. PAINE - I suppose she gave it very soon after he came back and started looking for work.
Mr. LIEBELER - And you said it was August of 1963 when you were looking to find this reproduction place; is that correct?
Mr. PAINE - That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER - I call your attention to a mark on Hillcrest and Asbury, and I ask you if you put that mark on the map?
Mr. PAINE - I don't recall making that mark. I think it is different from the other mark, and it is--if I were to make a mark that is more the way I would make a mark. It also happens to be the cafeteria where I like to eat, where you can get all you want for a dollar there, and it is a very good meal. So I would be interested in that, in locating it. Here is one of the places where I was thinking of buying property.
Mr. DULLES - Is there a mark there at that place where you were interested in buying property?
Mr. PAINE - I don't think there is. I almost guessed that I didn't have that map at that time. Also I was not living--I would guess for a further reason that I would not have this map on the time of that August date was because I hadn't been living--I had been living in this apartment, and I had a map over there, and I probably didn't have the same map that Ruth had around her house.
Mr. LIEBELER - So you think it is probably likely you didn't place any marks on that map other than the one indicating your home?
Mr. PAINE - That is correct. In other words, I think that mark was placed there quite a long time back, because I have been interested in this locating of property for several years.
Mr. LIEBELER - Is the mark at the Hillcrest Avenue spot, a mark of the type that you usually make?
Mr. PAINE - And, as I say, I don't usually make a mark, but I think I might more likely have made that kind of mark, more than some of the others--somebody else has put marks here with a ball-point pen which are not the kind I would make.
Mr. LIEBELER - In reviewing this map with the FBI, were there any other marks on the map that it was developed that you possibly put on the map other than the ones we have discussed?
Mr. PAINE - I don't now remember any others. This one of the cafeteria there is not exactly at the right spot.
Mr. LIEBELER - The mark at Hillcrest Avenue?
Mr. PAINE - That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER - As you look at the map now do you see any other marks which you think you might have put on the map?
Mr. PAINE - No. We went over it at mealtime in considerable detail, he having located most of the marks he could find on the map--no, I guess it was still marked up like this. We didn't find anything that I can remember there that I might have put on there.

This wins The Soup Sandwich of Warren Commission testimony award... and there was serious competition.

Either way it was Michael Paine's map 

Supposedly Lee left a map at Mary Bledsoe's place.

Bledsoe threw it out.

Then I believe there is no evidence Lee looked for work from Oct 7 and Oct 14 thus no need for a map to find employment locations in that period.

Ruth either gave him this second one on Oct 14 before dropping him off in Dallas again - pre-marked by Michael Paine .

Perhaps it was taken from Irving by the cops and "found" at N Beckley.

Odd a man with a MAP doesn't know North from South Beckley. Just how did he find the house?

& Was this incriminating map with bullet trajectories fingerprinted? TIA

I appreciate your reply Gene.

Cheers, Ed

20 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Ah yes.

Thanks to uncle Malcolm.

Also with Bart's and Malcolm's help,

https://servimg.com/view/19524087/1807

https://servimg.com/view/19524087/1808

https://servimg.com/view/19524087/1809

https://servimg.com/view/19524087/1810

https://servimg.com/view/19524087/1811

https://servimg.com/view/19524087/1812

https://servimg.com/view/19524087/1813

Note the lunch meat went into the room at night and was gone the next day... for a meal or a sandwich for work?

2+ miles is not "close to work" at the TSBD.
More like the Trinity Flooring store.

Odd Gladys saying she 'Hears the Shots and then sirens' from Young Street 8 blocks from Dealey plaza. (not 15)

Again, no calls were received about reservations or open rooms... so sad for Roe's only hope,...
inquiry was in person & signage based.

Cheers,
Ed

On 2/8/2020 at 9:13 AM, Gene Kelly said:

Ed

FWIW, I think you've laid out a compelling set of facts that show the N. Beckley legend is just that ... invented for purposes of obfuscation.  Whenever I see squabbles about fact versus opinion, it creates a red flag.  Further,  I wouldn't much trust anything written on the part of the DPD (or FBI) ... in fact, for the gravity of what had happened, the DPD paper trail is extraordinary for it's poorly-documented interrogation of Oswald and initial investigation.  More prominent for what's left out than what's included.  And labored over by a multitude of earnest serious researchers for 50 years. Then, there is this odd pattern of LHO going on trips, coming back to stay at YMCA's (with a wife and child), and then renting rooming houses.  And you've pointed out something that wasn't obvious to me ... that Mary Bledsoe's house was hardly a "rooming house". Your description of Oswald's initial movements is priceless:

They take away Oswald's movie alibi and insert a ridiculous dash to buses, cabs, rooming houses, yet moments of time suspended while Mr Lee waits at an inbound bus stop, then a dash through Oak Cliff to again, slowly stroll the wrong way whilst being stopped by a policeman, a shooting, more dashing through alleys or was it down Jefferson. Anyways, the suspect dashes all the way down a major thoroughfare only to duck into a alcove, where the store manager gets suspicious and dashes after this man, who ducks into a theater unseen by the ticket seller or ticket taker. Calls to police about the malicious movie goer make cops dash into the theater and go straight up to the balcony, all the while the shoe store manager is hiding behind the curtains watching the cops in the balcony... nothing is said by the shoe store manager - as one suspect is being questioned up on the balcony steps - he stays hidden and quiet . When cops enter the stage door the shoe store manager still doesn't say who is the man ... the cops start frisking everyone. Only when Oswald gets his crotch grabbed by a policeman and knocks his hat off does a melee ensue. Later the policemen says a different man in the front row, and not the overpaid shoe salesman as whom pointed out Oswald as the man they wanted.

Cheers,

Gene

 

Thanks Gene, 

Here is a tid bit on the evidence,

https://servimg.com/view/19524087/1816#

Steve, 

With all due respect.

The typed up inventory is not done at Beckley.

Along with the Irving items, its done later. Later at the DPD those guys who framed 21 other innocent people with alibis.

You put a lot of faith, in the DPD, and that those are the items from the tiny room.

As a point of error are one of the pairs of binoculars jumping locations.

Plus everything you highlighted was supposedly in a blue valise, very portable, and contents not inventoried at the scene,.... and you have not addressed the Sea Bag or its Oswald stenciling.

Mighty convenient Herbert was Navy veteran and would have a Lee stenciled sea bag.

So your posting a late arriving inventory is your proof Roe?

Thats it.... mk

BTW, If you want to debate Greg go to ROKC and do that.

If you want to answer the evidence I have provided in the 50 pages or lack of naturally occurring evidence then please start.

Cheers, Ed 

Nicely done Steve Thomas!

Yes wasn't there a N. Madison resident or two working at the TSBD?


Here is the list of dates Oswald was confirmed at Irving 17 days in 6 weeks, (Roe has trouble with possibility Oswald spent more time there )  

On 2/3/2020 at 6:47 PM, Steve Roe said:

Well that’s her own recollections. According to ROKC, she’s not telling the truth. Let me take this moment, since you bring up Pat Hall, this debate/conversation was already been hashed out months ago with ROKC Parker, Kamp and LeDoux on social media. All of it got erased (or did it ;)). Pat Hall was in the middle of this after ROKC called her a xxxx and her family a bunch of money grabbing opportunists. Parker, Kamp and LeDoux will never tell you about this on their endless parlour games. 

Roe is making stuff up.

Nothing of the sort ever happened, if so how does Roe know... and if it was erased how does Roe know it was?

All very telling.

Desperation is getting the better of Roe.

Ed

Roe's evidence of occupancy is rubbish.

He has almost reached circumstantial level.

So Roe,

No fingerprints from a smooth metal snap buttons of the holster... or leather as it was just too hard to even try. Roe calls smooth leather rough. He needs to stretch his own credibility thin here.

And if Roe is saying the cops knew this to be 100% true then why no other means of documenting this evidence and tie it to Oswald.

No belt to hang the holster is included.

The Warren Commission denounced their own evidence, the slip of paper, as fake.
Roe just cant accept the proof shown him.

Roe has no answer for why Oswald had numbers and did not call even when it was necessary.
Instead we are told by Ruth a story about the numbers and her calling and of course there was no Lee Oswald there, we are told. 

Roe has no key to a room for which he claims Oswald rented but can not show a single receipt or any physical evidence Oswald was the roomer or even a roomer.

My evidence trumps your flimsy phone numbers.
Direct witness statements contradict the idea the persons thought to be Oswald. Those persons were in fact other roomers. 
Phone calls investigated by the FBI support this fact.
There were no roomer witnesses of Oswald. 
Proven.

The management has been caught in various conflicting statements.
Their credibility is now shot. 
The new management has too blown their own credibility based on their own statements.

So Steve has a mile to go and is mad he didnt check the map.
You are here [1964]
June 8th and Ruth's calendar bs.
Roe falls for everything but whats rubbed in his nose. 

Gee, Roe asks why its not in the essay, because that doesnt prove anything. 
Why is FR 5 5591 in the book?
What relatives did the numbers owner have,
What answer did he give for why his number is in the book twice?

What does refute Roe is the 50+ pages of evidence I presented. Roe has two trival concerns that were "addressed", no pun intended. 
Roe refutes it all by a page in a book?
No no Roe.
That is not sufficient for even a weak analysis to conclude as you have. How about a page from that Guest Register eh Roe.

Haha.
He has almost reached circumstantial level.
Hint for Roe, better find something solid soon as your audience is turning on you.

No inclusion of Earlene- Gladys- or AC Johnson's name anywhere in Oswald's notebook or on Oswald.

This means Lee Oswald did not know them by name or otherwise.

He looked at a room, maybe.

He didnt rent it though.

Took another. Got kicked out. Then what?

He had all weekend to check out, call, or reserve a room somewhere.. but no.

For the second time in a row he doesnt call Gladys.

No No Steve Roe.

He supposedly just shows up Monday and just happens the for rent sign is out??? And yet only a tiny room is available.

He says with a straight face. This is farcical. Roe will never be able to answer this simple question. Why didnt Lee call Gladys from Ruths Saturday? or Sunday, or Monday morning?

Why didnt Oswald call?

Roe has shown he had the number...

Ruth had a working phone.

So Roe? Where's the calls... or did he call to get the address?? hahaha so he could stop by and check to see if the sign is out. 

Oh my.

Did Mary Bledsoe testify to Oswald or Ruth calling her about rentals?

No????

Why not Steve Roe?

Cheers!!!

Ed

The notes are pinning Beckley on Oswald, or Framing him to get easy evidence past a court, heck they grab a justice of the peace to seal the deal then and there.

and lo and behold they dont even get a search warrant for Oswald 

Nor OH Lee 

Nor Mr. Lee 

Nope, the JOTP writes it as UNKNOWN PERSONS, Plural. 

Damn conspiracy theorists ...

Cheers, Ed

From Walt Brown's Chronology:

October 14, 1963—time unstated, but a.m., CST— Dallas, Texas. Ruth Paine vaguely recalls driving Lee Oswald into Dallas on that date. (Testimony of Ruth Paine, 3H 32)
Note: It is highly likely that Ruth Paine drove Lee Oswald somewhere that day, as he had arrived at the Paine residence on Saturday, October 12, fully aware that Mary Bledsoe no longer desired his presence as a roomer in her home.
He took more than the usual personal items TO the Paine house, and had to then find new lodgings (1026 N. Beckley), deposit his things there, and return to Bledsoe's (621 N. Marsalis) and collect what remained there.
Because his belongings were at Bledsoe's for a week, and because she had no intention of giving him a refund either way, he got no refund.
Subsequent testimony by Ruth Paine is more clear on the event— she recalled driving Lee Oswald into Dallas on a day when she took her typewriter— with Cyrillic [Russian alphabet] keys, into town to get it repaired.
She found the repair tag and the checks she write to the Weaver Office Machines Co. "when we went to pick up the machine" on October 18, so her recollection is clear that she drove Lee Oswald into Dallas on Monday the fourteenth— the beginning of a week in which he would find new living quarters and new employment. (Deposition of Ruth Paine, 9H 428) 
 
October 14, 1963—a.m., EST—The White House, Washington, D.C.
Fred Korth, Secretary of the Navy, abruptly resigned amidst growing concerns of the legalities of the contract that he and fellow Texan Lyndon Johnson cooked up for the controversial TFX fighter plane.
"There was general agreement in the Administration that Mr. Korth would 'fit better' in private life [or prison…] than in Washington." (Mark North, Act of Treason: The Role of J. Edgar Hoover in the Assassination of President Kennedy, p. 326)
Note: This happened on a Monday; the previous Monday, LBJ crony Bobby Baker abruptly resigned his post as Secretary to the Senate Majority Leader.
Given this circus-like atmosphere surrounding a Vice President viewed as increasingly corrupt and desperate, it is becoming clear that one of two things will eventuate: President Kennedy's term will be shortened, or Vice President Johnson's term will be shortened.
For Kennedy, it was no longer a matter of "if" Johnson was to be discarded, but only "when."
Once cut loose, Johnson would have been fair game not only for federal and state prosecutors, but for the IRS as well as a good number of individuals on Capitol Hill who had no use for Johnson.
November 22nd rewrote all those scenarios.
 
October 14, 1963—a.m., CST—after Ruth Paine possibly provides a ride; Lee Oswald takes the remainder of his things from Mary Bledsoe's lodgings and left a mess behind. Mrs. Bledsoe said, "Good luck. You know, I thought to myself, 'That's good riddance.'" Oswald, Bledsoe testified, had left behind a map showing bus routes and possible work sites. "I just threw it away and clean up the room. Just threw it away…. didn't pay any attention to it." (Deposition of Mary Bledsoe, 6H 406-407)
 
October 14, 1963— between 4: 00 and 5: 00 p.m., CDT— Dallas, Texas.
Lee Oswald makes the first of six $ 8 payments for his rented room at 1026 N. Beckley, rented under the name "O.H. Lee"; Subsequent payments were made every seven days: October 21, 28; November 4, 11,* and 18. The page noting these payments and nothing else is stamped "Top Secret" in two places. (Gladys Johnson Exhibit A, 20H 276)
Note: the cited exhibit, "Gladys Johnson A," contained a complete list of boarders at 1026 N. Beckley. The dwelling itself, while unprepossessing from the street, is quite large and offers board in twenty-two bedrooms— as testified to by Mrs. Johnson (Deposition of Mrs. Arthur Carl (Gladys J.) Johnson, 10H 292)
For reasons known best to those who classify such exhibits, it was initially classified "Top Secret." It was eventually declassified, as it was published in the 26 volumes. Some researchers have hypothesized that 1026 N. Beckley was essentially a safe house.
(*) Oswald did not, in point of fact, make a payment on November 11, 1963; it was a Monday, and celebrated as Veterans' Day, and he remained with Marina and his two daughters at Ruth Paine's house.
Earlene Roberts would testify that he always paid regularly and promptly, but did not make that payment until he returned to 1026 N. Beckley at approximately 5: 00 p.m. on Tuesday. (Deposition of Earlene Roberts, 6H 442)
That testimony was essentially corroborated by Gladys Johnson, the property owner, he testified he paid the rent on the 12th, "I would say the next 5 minutes after he walked into the house from work." (Deposition of Mrs. Arthur Carl (Gladys J.) Johnson, 10H 297)
Note: Just as Oswald visited the Elsbeth Avenue site in Dallas, according to landlord Mahlon Tobias, three weeks in advance, so he visited 1026 N. Beckley in advance: "I came home that afternoon(*) and he seen the room for rent sign— the first time he came by, I happened to have just rented the last room that one time. Occasionally, I will have them full and then they just go vacant; people just come in and out, stay a week and then are gone, anyway, at that time, I didn't have a room."
[Warren Commission Counsel Joseph] Ball: "The first time he came to see you?"
Johnson: "Yes; that's something about 3 weeks before he came back." (Deposition of Mrs. Arthur Carl (Gladys J.) Johnson, 10H 293).

Yet Oswald did get a room when he returned, on October 14; three weeks before that would be September 23, 1963, the day before he fled the Garners' lodging on Magazine Street in New Orleans. FROM THERE HE WENT TO MEXICO, and is believed to have returned on October 3. So Gladys Johnson's three week estimate is off by more than double— as the earliest he could have stopped would have been 10 days before, or, put another way, "last week." "Three weeks" is a specific designation of time, even if hedged by "about three weeks."

Someone is being Oswald, and lining up the ducks for him. There is no other explanation for this non-stop pattern of anomalies— especially since the Johnson estimate would also coincide with the approximate time when Lee Oswald did not— because he could not have— visit Sylvia Odio.
Note: In a lighter vein, Mrs. Johnson has a rental document page signed by "O.H. Lee," which she insists the Warren Commission should photo copy: "I have been told that I could sell this and I haven't gotten any money. I think about $ 30 is what I received [from what source is unclear and unasked], all the trouble and all I've had and I've had to take the rugs up once or twice. People like to have driven us crazy before we asked for any information what to do." (Deposition of Mrs. Arthur Carl (Gladys J.) Johnson, 10H 294).
She would add that her boarding receipts had declined because of Oswald's presence in that dwelling.
She told of Oswald never leaving his room, eating there, keeping meat and milk in the refrigerator, and never speaking: "That man never talked; that was the only peculiarity about him. He would never speak." (Deposition of Mrs. Arthur Carl (Gladys J.) Johnson, 10H 296)
Comment: Perhaps this individual, like the "Depository Oswald" was silent because he lacked the fundamental basics in the English language— but perhaps HE was fluent in Russian.
 
October 14, 1963, "early afternoon," 1: 00 or 2: 00 p.m. CST; Dallas, Texas. Earlene Roberts rents a room at 1026 N. Beckley to a man who registered as "O.H. Lee," and she would testify that she did this "to my sorrows."
When asked, "Why to your sorrows?"
She answered, "Well, he was registered as O.H. Lee and I come to find out he was Oswald and I wish I had never known it… they put me through the third degree… The FBI, Secret Service, Mr. Will Fritz' men and Bill Decker's… Every time I would walk out on the front porch somebody was standing with a camera on me— they had me scared to death." (Deposition of Earlene Roberts, 6H 435-436)
Note: In assessing the groups who gave her "the third degree," Mrs. Roberts could have added, "The Warren Commission," as they pointedly— and repeatedly— asked her whether or she knew Oswald (Mr. Lee) had a gun or if she ever saw one, to the point of asking her if she went through his personal belongings when she cleaned his room.

October 14, 1963— late afternoon, CST, Irving, Texas. Ruth Paine, aware that there may be a job at the Texas School Book Depository, telephoned Roy Truly to learn if a position is available, and is told that there is an opening, albeit temporary. (Testimony of Ruth Paine, 3H 34)

ROKC additions:

October 14 1963 was a very busy day for the suburban Quaker charity lady Ruth Paine;

-Getting a cyrillic typewriter repaired

-Giving Lee a lift to Dallas near as she could to Texas Employment Commission (TEC)

-Having coffee with the neighbors and organizing a job for Lee without even knowing if he got one for himself that day thru the TEC

-Writing a letter full of praise for Lee to her mother., But not enough praise to drive Lee the 10 miles between a job interview at a lumberyard and Oak Cliff where he has to wander about looking to spot for rent signs in yards for at least another mile in distance....carrying his clothes on a hanger, and a sea bag. 

Busy day the 14th, unlucky too.

Cheers, Ed

P. 301:

Captain Fritz: "Where did you go  when you left the work?

"I have a room over on North Beckley".

"Where on Beckley?"

"1026".

"North or South?"

"North or South?" "Yes". "I couldn't say, but it is 1026 Beckley".  //Fritz asked "North or South?" but Lee already told him "North". Some confusion here//

No such exchanges are in Hosty's notes about any of this.

And why would Fritz ask N or S if he is so well acquainted with Beckley and knew it couldn't be S as that's a grocery store. Ed

"What's the area look like?"

"Oh, a couple of streets come together at that point, and there is a filling station across from the boarding house---"

The captain nodded: "That's North Beckley".

There are several places a couple streets come together on South Beckley and one still has a filling station though its too late to know off hand if there were any residences that one could rent a room in nearby.Besides Beckley is a long street undefined at both ends. Its possible Fritz knows Oak Cliff like a cab driver but I doubt it. Ed

Captain Fritz excused himself. He went out into the hall and told a couple of detectives to run over to 1026 North Beckley and search a room rented by Lee Harvey Oswald.

And yet they did not get a warrant for Oswald nor OH Lee's room but persons unknown.

Why "persons" when its just lil ole Lee? Ed

Great finds Andrej!

Cheers, Ed

Some local history

Of course take Tosh with several grains of salt...

Cheers, Ed

So the notes get cherry picked by Hosty and some Reid Technique malfeasance and turned into a near confession by Oswald... 

To Jim DiEugenio,

I'd proclaim the second most important reason for the Beckley bag job will always relate to alibi and means.

Put the man in the area where he gets a pistol and leaves the holster behind.

Classic alibi manipulation 

They take away Oswald's movie alibi and insert a ridiculous dash to buses, cabs, rooming houses, yet moments of time suspended while Mr Lee waits at a inbound bus stop, then a dash through Oak Cliff to again, slowly stroll the wrong way whilst being stopped by a policeman, a shooting, more dashing through alleys or was it down Jefferson... anyways the suspect dashes all the way down a major thoroughfare only to duck into a alcove, where the store manager gets suspicious and dashes after this man, who ducks into a theater unseen by the ticket seller or ticket taker. Calls to police about the malicious movie goer make cops dash into the theater and go straight up to the balcony, all the while the shoe store manager is hiding behind the curtains watching the cops in the balcony... nothing is said by the shoe store manager as one suspect is being questioned up on the balcony steps, he stays hidden and quiet... When cops enter the stage door the shoe store manager still doesnt say who is the man... cops start frisking everyone.

Only when Oswald gets his crotch grabbed by a policeman and knocks his hat off does a melee insue. 

Later the policemen says a different man in the front row, and not the overpaid shoe salesman as whom pointed out Oswald as the man they wanted.

The alibis were easy pickings by DPD and the truth or notes of the truth hurt the whole bloody story.

Cheers, Ed

3 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Oswald was brought in for questioning at 2:20

Hosty didn't arrive at DPD Headquarters until 3:15.

(almost an hour later)

Mr. BALL. You said just a few minutes, what did you mean by that, 15, 20, 25?
Mr. FRITZ. It would be pretty hard to guess at a time like that because we weren't even quitting for lunch so I don't even know, time didn't mean much right at that time. For a few minutes, you would think 30 or 40 minutes the first time.
Mr. BALL. Thirty or forty minutes?
Mr. FRITZ. I am guessing at that time.

 

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him anything about his address or did he volunteer the address?
Mr. FRITZ. He volunteered the address at Beckley?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I will tell you, whether we asked him or told him one, he never did deny it, he never did deny the Beckley Street address at all. The only thing was he didn't know whether it was north or south.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him whether it was north or south?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, but he didn't know.

Oswald wasn't asked where he lived. He was presented with a fact, and didn't deny it.

I can see a situation where Oswald was told he lived on Beckley, and Oswald shrugging and saying, "If you say so".

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm

Mr. BALL. How long a time did you sit with Oswald and question him this first time?
Mr. FRITZ. The first time, not but a few minutes.
Mr. BALL. That was the time Hosty and Bookhout were there?
Mr. FRITZ. That is right. But sometimes when I would leave the office to do something else, it is hard to imagine how many things we had happening at the one time or how many different officers we had doing different things without seeing it but we were terribly busy.
I had called all my officers back on duty and had every one of them assigned to something, so going back and forth kept me pretty busy running back and forth at the time of questioning.
I don't know when I would leave, I suppose Mr. Bookhout and Mr. Hosty asked him a few questions, but I don't believe they questioned him a great deal while I was gone.

Who knows what Bookhout and Hosty talked to Oswald about while Fritz was out the room?... the weather? the price of rice in China?

 

Steve Thomas

Thank you Steve Thomas!

That sums it up and puts a bow on it.

......

Bart has docs that clearly state he, Hosty, arrived in the basement about 2:45 - 2:50 and had some discussions. Then according to his notes was inside the interrogation room at 3:15 - 4:05

To Steve Roe, how does a mans alibi get robbed? 

See my above post.

Cheers!,

Ed

For Andrej,

A map.

https://servimg.com/view/17602890/1358

The Notes by Hosty have a dot between the O and next letter. Not O.H But O dot H

Also the top notation ends in "room" Well any good investigators ask what room. But here Room was supposedly room O.

Hosty note is very distinct. The dot is completely out of place for it to be initials. Combine the two halfs and it now reads Room O

Hosty was still writing it out as 'where' he lives, when it changes to who. This is because Hosty wasnt there to hear any Beckley talk between Fritz and Oswald. Hosty was late and his notes show it. The notes Actually start with 2515 W. 5th Irving. I believe the note at very tippy top, 1026 N. Beckley was added after the interview. When Fritz and Hosty get a chance to converse, then Hosty includes this info he wasnt present for, at the top. Also claims are these notes are written out after the interrogation session. FBI is supposed to listen to the interrogation, during a break they write down everything they heard, perhaps not in order or even continuous sentences, bits recalled are written as remembered. Anyone want to chime in on the logistics of the note taking and what it means to these notes. Cheers, Ed

Stop the presses!

Steve Roe invented Keyless entry in 1963.

Also paperless documents....Steve give us a break.

Your evidentiary excursion has left a trail of blood and no treasure.

The Bus, key, the lies, all are given a right merry hug and a kiss by those with nothing upstairs.

Give the Warren Commission a nod and off to sod eh.

No Oswald at Beckley.

A Mr. Lee whom made long distance calls and wasn't Oz at all.

A tiny cowboy hopped up on Westerns also not Oswald.

No one is Oswald at Beckley, because Oswald wasn't there.

Calls, books, and witnesses chronology are Roe's defeat. 

Cheers, Ed

PS: Mae just wrote what she was told.

Roe was never told to write anything. 

Similar outcome..

Andrej,

The attributions are not all in Oswald's words but Will Fritz's.

Same with the notes.

Hosty was not in the interrogation when Fritz started with Oz. Hosty makes it appear like he was there the whole time.

1026 N. Beckley is not what Fritz claims.

1 hour ago, Andrej Stancak said:

That particular Hosty's note was not about "where", it was about Lee using O.H.Lee in his rooming house. "Where" would be appropriate in a note specifying the location but it was wrong in the context of using an assumed name O.H. Lee. This was the reason for crossing "where". The note (without "where") reads: "O.H. Lee is how he lived" . It is a brief note wanting to state that Lee Oswald lived under an assumed name O.H. Lee in 1026 North Beckley.

However, the O.L.Lee note is not the critical note I am referring to in the authentic Hosty's notes - the second note from the top on the sheet bearing a DPD inscription on the reversed side.

 

Andrej,

That is absolutely correct and still seems you've missed the point.

The obvious error is because Hosty had yet to know where Oswald lived when this OH Lee was being pinned on Oswald as an alias living in a room near the Tippit murder.
This likely by the reading of all of the notes we at ROKC have lead us to more educated conclusions. 
The error reads
OH Lee is where how he lives.
 

Dallas Coles/Criss-Cross Directory 1963 is available at Dallas Public Library, I know, I have a Dallas Public Library card.
They also have the phone book and anyone can read a phone book's residential numbers section till they find the address listed.
It takes patience to search not as Roe calls it "accepting simple answers" yet the info is in the white pages.... let alone a Dallas Coles/Criss-Cross Directory

It would only take looking through to the J's .

How'd Ruth get the Bledsoe number?
Wasn't Lee booted out when she claims he supposedly gave it to her....
What would happen if Marina or Ruth had called it as soon as Lee left on Monday Morning... how was that to play out.

Ruth never tried it, yet the Beckley number was supposedly tried and scratched out. Why not try the other number if Lee said he moves from room to room.

...and did he live there at Bledsoe's as OH Lee or Alek Hidell and if not why not? Why only at "Beckley" where there is a Mr. Lee already? 
What conditions were put upon ringing the Bledsoe's premises? 
1) I answer to Alek 
2) I answer to O or OH 
3) Its Mr. Lee for me... 

Nonsense.
Same as at any residence, Mercedes, Elsbeth, Magazine, he went by Lee Harvey Oswald.
The pattern is he lives as himself.

Cheers, Ed


 

Andrej,

If you had studied the notes or my presentation you would have noted 
the scratched out word WHERE in relation to OH Lee.

It reads: OH Lee is where how I live

How on earth could Hosty make that mistake if he knew straight away where Oswald was living.
TIA

Cheers, Ed

Somehow Ruth Paine magically looked up Arthur Johnson, how did she know that? Coles and Polk's were not distributed on the front porches of Dallas residents. I know I lived there in 1963. 

Steve,
Are you sure no one gave her the number?

How'd Ruth find Lee the job?

You would know you could of dialed the operator and asked for the phone number to 1026 N. Beckley and the operator would look that up for you, they had telephone directories it was their job... My Mom was an Operator she lived it. 

In telecommunications, directory assistance or directory enquiries is a phone service used to find out a specific telephone number and/or address of a residence, business, or government entity.

If you know the address you could get the number, and like wise you could give them the number and they gave you the address.
Are you claiming the number to the rooming house was perhaps unpublished or secret, and therefore useless to anyone? How'd Ruth, Lee, and a Russian Male get it? 

Right from Oswald... not from a criss-cross directory at any library in greater Dallas.

Thanks for wasting time with reversed conspiracy theories Steve. 

As the story goes Lee Oswald admits to taking the rest of the day off as with all the confusion he was certain there would no more work for the rest of the day, that everybody was too upset. Then he got on a bus and went home. Turned out not to be a Marsalis bus as we were told.
Could not be Oswald.
Yet Dallas' finest were stuck holding a transfer for it.
Odd a Marsalis transfer for a Beckley roomer?
This other little slip of paper got the cops out of doing any investigation into the Beckley Bus.

Tell me the bus driver's name who drove the Beckley bus that drove Oswald supposedly to work daily?
Steve Roe you have claimed expert knowledge of Dallas(?) or was it Oak Cliff? 

So tell us the bus drivers name.

Oh and Sir Roe can you tell us kind sir how the commission knew Oswald rode that bus to work? Daily... did they ask the driver or was it the passengers?

How did the DPD, FBI, WC all miss the Beckley bus? Your star players Steve, dropping the proverbial ball?
I mean you lived there how smart is it not to talk to the guy transporting Oswald to work...

And wasn't the Beckley bus behind the Marsalis bus on Elm Street on Nov 22 and the driver would have a cat bird seat to the goings on in and around the Marsalis bus. Yes he would whomever he was.
Yet thanks to the investigation touted by Roe as sufficient, there are deficits the size of a city bus in the tale told by Steve and Co.
 
and pssst they gave the other guy giving rides, Buell, a polygraph you might go find the results for us newbs at ROKC.
Thanks again!!

Cheers and give my love to Pat,
Ed
 

Andrej,

 I find it odd both Johnson's said the police told them their address was on Oswald when arrested.

That sounds more like the cops trying to lay a story on the Johnson's about how it was found out about the rooming house so quick....  wait,

 Why would the cops need to lie about finding an address on him if he told the cops where he lived!

Cheers, Ed

ps.

The notes dont mean Lee told Fritz this and he heard it mate.

Hosty wasnt there when this bit supposedly went on with Fritz.

If not why no mention of the lack of North in Oswalds supposed admission and yet Fritz gives testimony to it. 

And as has been presented elsewhere the possibilty leads to backstopping of his notes. 

Of note not all in the notes made it from the notes to the public, they cherry picked.

I included the notes as they showcthe frame was bold and ruthless   .. well, one Ruth.

While Ed did a good job by assembling all the contradictions surrounding Lee Oswald's address in Dallas in autumn 1963, the contradictions themselves do not disprove the fact that Lee Oswald stayed at 1026 North Beckley.

I do not concur.
Being absent from a place doesn't make one guilty, and here tho a residence comes before proofs and makes Lee guilty by default.
I can't prove a negative according to the lone nut faithful, so I have impugned the evidence.
The evidence consists of witnesses and a slip of paper.

Those have been thoroughly impugned. They should not be used again as proof of residency. Those are the circular arguments that do not move the thread or conclusion to fruition. 

If there is other evidence not official in origin then it needs to be supported just as the official evidence and witnesses were.  Roe claiming a conversation of unknown time frame and context is worthless. 

Cheers, Ed

 

Ashtray for a non smoker?
Sure, and religious medals from WW2 ?
More likely from Herbert Lee's father the WW2 POW 

Didn't Herbert Leon Lee smoke and drink Steve...
Cheers, Ed

"Well now the story/theory gets more bizarre. Instead of just accepting the simple answer that Oswald lived at the Beckley Rooming house, now he's where?? Irving? Don't think so Mr. LeDoux. I've talked to one of the Robert's boys (next door neighbor to Ruth Paine). He was one of the Irving neighborhood kids that Oswald played with on his Irving visits.. He never saw Oswald during the weekdays, only on the weekends, tossing the football around with his brother and him. To even entertain that idea that Oswald lived in the Paine home all this time is just not credible." ~Steve Roe

All of a few weeks, then into a new apartment known of by Ruth, but was to be a surprise for Marina. 
But I digress, any rental would come with a KEY.
Roe has a mental block in this area of property management, locks & keys are foreign to him.

Firstly I'd like to know when Mr. Roe spoke to "one of the Roberts' boys". If it was not recently, as I suspect is the case, then what was Mr Roe doing asking about seeing Oswald on weekdays when this has never been an issue until raised here? I don't think Mr Row did ask. I think he is putting words into "the Roberts' boy's mouth and that all that was said was the Lee would play with them on weekends.

Its too convenient a conversation to of had previously. 
Wasn't Robert's boys in school in November and would not be playing with any men in any yard during the week.
Roe wants to avoid asking questions and just wants to simply accept Beckley rather than work out the details.
Cowardly to say the least. His claim is certainly not worthy of calling me or ROKC out if that's his default standard. 

Mrs Paine is the one who let's the cat out of the bag. She has stated in the past that Lee would play with the neighborhood kids on the weekend. In fact, she wrote to her father at one stage how he broke up a fight between them on one occasion. 

I wanted to save this bit from the essay for just this occasion, I think I sent Mick or Bart a version with it included. 
Yes the similarities are enormous and I could find only the story from Pat Hall going back to 2006.

"Even though she was only a sixth-grader, Ms. Hall also remembers the tenant as a cordial man of few words, who would, however, occasionally play catch in the front yard with Ms. Hall's brothers. 
One afternoon, her brothers got into a fight with each other. A big one. Oswald rushed outside to break it up. 
"He went down and pulled them apart," says Ms. Hall. "He sat them on the front porch and sat down between them. And he said, 'I want to tell you something: You need to love each other and always take care of each other, and you don't fight each other.'"
And then he said something that Ms. Hall and her family will never forget. With the boys at rapt attention, he said, "And don't ever do anything...that would harm another human being." 
Ms. Hall gets a chill just remembering those words. For two weeks later, Oswald would be charged with a pair of homicides: the murder of Dallas police officer J.D. Tippit on 10th Street in Oak Cliff, preceded 45 minutes earlier by the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on Elm Street."
https://www.dallasnews.com/arts-entertainment/architecture/2006/03/12/patricia-puckett-hall-remembers-lee-harvey-oswald-before-the-world-descended-on-her-grandmother-s-rooming-house/


But in her last talk in Nov last year, she made a point of saying he would spend his whole time watching TV.
Well, he could not be watching TV AND out playing with the neighborhood kids at the same time - not unless Steve has been infected by the 13 inch head forum and is now advocating the Two Oswald Theory. He also was in his room reading westerns... or making long distance calls to Missouri or Shreveport to talk with his girlfriend.
No. It is more likely that he was glued to the couch watching TV  during week evening/nights after work and thus never seen by the neighborhood kids -- until day time on weekends.

That was his schedule according to Mr and Mrs AC Johnson. Story is all Roe has to prop up a debunked tale.
As for Ruth not being involved in helping him look for places... perhaps Steve can explain this?
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t283-the-washing-machine-conspiracy

Roe's trying and failing at Beckley, but he is trying, he found numbers in a book likely from Oswald's apartment searches with Ruth but hey numbers in a book don't equal residency and we know if Lee did look at the tiny room he said no thank you and went on to the next... Roe has to have Oswald at Beckley so he can use all the false attributions and proximity to the Tippit murder as his anchor....and Roe admits thinking is hard. 
 We also know that Lee sought the help of his Aunt and one of his mother's friends in looking for a place and for a job. He was driven around looking for places to live.
That's called a precedent.
Established habit.
How could a kind-hearted charity Quaker lady say "no"?

The larger point here is Mr. Roe's MO - typical of the secretive FB group he is a member of.

1) He is reliant solely on witnesses - including unnamed witnesses whose exact words we do not know, let alone the exact questions asked and in what context. 

2) He will not respond to the evidence put forth.

3) He has made it clear to Bart that he will respond how he sees fit. How he sees fit is as above. Ignore the evidence presented and concentrate on lifting the status of witnesses he likes to that of infallible saints - while simultaneously throwing the usual mud about how many XXXXX we think there are in all of this and etc.

3a) And all the while contradicting the available evidence with tepid witnesses.

It is all very old and tired. If he had an ounce honesty and integrity, he would break the Jim Hess mould and actually try and address some of the following:

How did Roberts, and Glady's never see the holster hanging on the door knob?
Was it because Earlene is blind thus can not be relied upon for any identification of anyone. Or she never saw what was never there.
If Roe needs a third option he really is just worming out of his own pile.

How did Roberts or Glady's never see the stacks of Commie literature allegedly found?

Why did they think Oswald read Westerns
(hint for Roe: it was Floyd deGraffenreid who dressed liked a cowboy and read westerns - both of which are confirmed via his facebook page)

Why are all the later interviews of other residents talking about a small nervous guy, never seen except watching tv... when miraculously, grand-daughter Pat Hall recalls Lee playing with her brothers and... once breaking up a fight between her brothers. Doesn't sound like a "small nervous guy" to me... in fact, what it sounds like is the same story that Ruth Paine told.
Methinks Pat Hall "borrowed" the story to boost her own credibility as a witness about 2000'ish.

Why don't the brothers ever tell the story? Its always Pat's recollection.

In all other cases, former residences seem to be confusing Herbert Lee and Floyd Degraffenreid in their memories and then labeling that confused memory as "Mr Lee" which then gets fed into the false legend of "Mr Lee" being Oswald.

How did Oswald get his clothes cleaned? How did he carry clothes between Irving, the TSBD and Oak Cliff? Sea Bag?
*Found the holster, sea bag, key or fingerprints eh Roe?*
The official investigation checked out Oak Cliff laundromats and drew a blank. None recalled Oswald as a customer. 
Even though the Beckley Bunch pinned a date and time when the tiny room renter went across the street to wash a load... that turned out not to be Oswald at all. So they drop that part. 
Rob Clark might need a two part episode of me setting Roe straight!

Same can be said of local cafes and eateries that other residents used because, according to Hugh Slough, you had to eat out.
How many sandwiches are we to believe this renter ate in his room "for dinner?"
Wasn't it more likely this renter made sandwiches for his lunch as a flooring installer or auto parts store clerk.

The official story can't have Oswald eating out because as above, no one in those eateries recalled him.
Worse still, it blows a whole in his budget...
so then we get the ludicrous situation where even though Slough said they all had to eat out... the official story ignores that and has Oswald with fridge privileges
and subsisting on sandwiches made in his room, all against the rooming house policy that everyone else had to follow.
Johnson's took a shine to the nervous little commie didn't they Roe with extra privileges and didn't even give him a key... HAHA

Roe is welcome to address all the inconsistencies in the official record as presented, and address his own inconsistencies whilst at it.
Cheers.
Ed 

Last Words Of LHO~ Mae Brussels
We had no visitors at our apartment on North Beckley
I never lived on Neely Street. These people are mistaken about visiting there, because I never lived there.