Ed LeDoux

Ed, I already explained that one couldn't just use a regular car to transport three adults and a baby, as well as all the clothing that LHO and Marina had, plus a baby crib and a baby stroller. You can't use a car for all that. You need more. Larry Hancock's comments on this topic are also relevant here -- the old-fashioned baby stuff wasn't foldable like today's. You needed more than just a car. But that doesn't mean they had FURNITURE. Nobody , not one person, not even the affidavit you provided, in fact NOTHING that you provided, suggests that the Oswalds had a bedroom set, a living room set or a dining room set. NO ACTUAL FURNITURE OF ANY KIND WAS EVER DESCRIBED BY ANYBODY. But like Jeanne and George DeMohrenschildt implied, George Bouhe was so infatuated with Marina Oswald that he went overboard in collecting charity for her, and they said (if they weren't exaggerating) that they collected A HUNDRED DRESSES for Marina. Even if you stuffed them all in office boxes, you'd probably need twenty office boxes for a hundred slim dresses. You can't fit that in a car. So they had stuff -- JUST NO FURNITURE. Nor did Gary Taylor say that they had "Furniture." Nor did ANYBODY ELSE. So, where did you get the idea? Regards, --Paul Trejo Exactly, well sort of, "the old-fashioned baby stuff wasn't foldable" So Lee tossed it on a pram, stuff that wouldn't fit on/in a car(how big?) or trunk? Others say they needed a truck and trailer to move their "Furnishings" Furnishings: an object that tends to increase comfort or utility; especially : an article of furniture for the interior of a building —usually used in plural Asta la vista Trejo, Ed

And does any of this make a interior corridor or room into a vestibule? No. Tata, Ed

Check the national fire codes, Dallas county code, City of Dallas code for both fire and occupancy. And perhaps Ian could tell us it occupancy rating, work performed by Bryd or TSBD to meet occupancy requirements? There is plenty of "Evidence That Shows" Ian, thanks though.

Baby carriage and crib are apartment furnishings to you? So Gary didn't need a trailer but for kicks rents one instead of tie crib to roof, and put the pram in trunk? Okay. Paul, he also swore it in an affidavit http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/taylor2.htm Now Mrs. Hall said, Mr. LIEBELER - I understand that you helped Marina move from the apartment in Fort Worth to your house in a pickup truck that you borrowed? Mrs. HALL - Yes; Patterson had a pickup truck. Mr. LIEBELER - Did anybody else help you, or just you and Marina did the moving? Mrs. HALL - Lee still was there, so when we moved, he went to Dallas that night, that afternoon. Mr. LIEBELER - Was there anybody besides you and Marina and Lee that helped you with the moving? Mrs. HALL - No; nobody else. They didn't have nothing. Mr. LIEBELER - There wasn't very much to move? Mrs. HALL - No; the baby was sleeping in a suitcase. And then the first time when George went - Mr. LIEBELER - George Bouhe? Mrs. HALL - He saw this situation. He bought a little bed for the child and a couple of other things. He helped them very much. He was very nice about that. Oh I see the Oswald's had enough that she needed to borrow a pickup truck to haul it all. Much like Gary needed to rent a trailer to haul it all. Your point is showing, I suggest a hat. Dasvidanya, Ed

Fast Eddie, That thing on the second floor is the funniest-looking enclosed, compact, five-sided, three-doored "hallway" I've ever seen. OK, if not "vestibule," should we call it a "closet," instead? Or a "cloak room?" Hey! I got it! How about "a compact, five-sided, three-doored, passageway nexus" ! Anything but "hallway," Fast Eddie. Mahalo, --Tommy PS An overheard (by the NSA) hush-hush conversation between two gun-and-drug-dealing TSBD employees: "Let's meet at 4:30 in the Second Floor Nexus. You know, that strangely-shaped little hallway by the lunch room, the one that has three doors and kinda connects everything?" Its you whom needs to slow down here Quick Tommy, Yours is the oddest shaped 'vestibule' in history, let alone the fact it does not connect to the exterior of a building. You incorrect usage does not make a corridor into a vestibule. What exactly is your room a 'vestibule' to? The lunch room? Or the hallway? Or is it a stairway vestibule, by your definition it would depend which way your heading. Perhaps you can coin a new term, multi-vestibular. I wouldn't stay up late waiting for a knock on the door from Strong's Concordance, or Oxford, although they did add awesomesauce so who knows. vestibule is (architecture) a passage, hall or room, such as a lobby, between the outer door and the interior of a building. http://the-difference-between.com/vestibule/passage You see QT, a room not connected to the exterior can not be a vestibule. Don't you have a mud room? Same deal. Or do you wear your boots inside like Frankenstein? A mud room is a type of vestibule. I see you, much like Dallas' finest, would like to destroy Oswald's alibi by misusing the English language. And this is the point isn't it. Make Ossie guilty somehow by moving the encounter away from the real vestibule to your faked up vestibule that never was. Its a rhetorical so no question mark or need to reply. You are wed to this! Who is going to throw the bouquet, you or the 'vestibule'?? Where are you going to hold the reception? Perhaps an "enclosed, three-door room" like the storage room behind the lunchroom? You can hold it there and call that a "vestibule" too since its enclosed, and has three doors! And of note, the Warren Commission removed the word HALL from the second floor diagram. But did not include Vestibule! If you check the Third and Fourth floor spaces have the HALL clearly labeled. They also have doors separating the halls from the stairway. Code would require a door/s between the stairwell and occupied spaces. The self closer on the second floor stairwell door is a safety device for fire, not noise abatement. The double doors at the end of the hall, like on 3rd floor, were the original fire doors(by the #27) But as you can see smoke and fire could proceed through the spaces via lunchroom to the stairwell. The odd shaped room was added as the interior occupied spaces (lunchroom, Conference, etc) were exposed to the stairwell, so a partition was added to separate them, and be compliant with an self closing door. Now interior had a way to access the lunchroom without having to enter and exit a self closing door, and as you may have noticed in the re-enactment videos, and photos those 2nd floor hallway double doors are always open. as allowed. Was Oswald spotted by Baker, as Baker climbed over some invoice boxes on the second floor landing so he could get a good view into the stairwell door window and into the lunch room where Ossie was frozen in the lunch room doorway? Is this how you see it QT? Ossie knew what the term vestibule implied, unlike my booted and neck bolted friend Quick Tommy, he had seen many vestibules at Embassies and the historic European Architectural concerns he visited, toured, and photographed. He was supplying a specific location, of which the TSBD had but one proaulion. Shape size and number of doors are not requisite of corridors, being connected to the exterior is of vestibules. The Greeks and Latin speakers knew that a vestibule connected the outer to the inner. Tommy would rather have corrective surgery on the TSBD to avoid the obvious. Lee meant Lobby, Holmes recorded it as such as Holmes verified it with Lee as to the location, first floor. That is Holmes Checked and Mated your newly termed "vestibule" at the front door. Bon Voyage, Ed

Your skirting the issue. So why the Uhaul? Where did the furnishings go? Why claim the place was empty later? Would that not imply it was full before? What Ruth took with her would not require a trailer, correct? She left Lee with an furnished apt. then? My point -- since we're talking about Oswald furniture -- is that after depositing his Marine duffel bags and his few suitcases at the Greyhound bus terminal, LHO accompanied Ruth, Marina, baby June, and Ruth's two children back to the Oswald's Neely Street residence, and LHO spent the next hour or so emptying the apartment of their few belongings into Ruth Paine's car -- with the baby crib on the top, IIRC, and tying it all up with rope. Ruth helped LHO with the tying. Did Ruth help tie up the rifle too? Do you have a single piece of evidence to back this claim she deposited sea bags? Go ahead show us the sea bags with tags, markings, etc. Show us! Prove this "POINT" Paul Mazel Tov, Ed

Thanks Tommy, but before we rewrite the TSBD architecture to include a feature never before called a vestibule, two facts: Hallways, corridors and Passages come in all lengths, curves, angles and number of doors. Some even have doors separating the hallway or passage into sections. Vestibules connect to the exterior of buildings. You have a date set for the vestibular nuptials yet? Where will the reception be, a small 'room' with three doors? I guess that makes the storage room behind the lunch room also a vestibule! You can hold it there. When Oswald used the term correctly it places himself in a very specific area. First floor, entrance. (see #171) Mazel tov, Ed

Yes the Google defense, quite popular among the kids nowadays. I did a Google too, TSBD and Vestibule. Amazin what one will find with a less restrictive search Pictures like this, And text like this, Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting? Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule. Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule? Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part. Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor? Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor. ... Mr. HOLMES. There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on. He didn't say whether he took the stairs down. He didn't say whether he took the elevator down. But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved. He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit." Then another man rushed in past him as he started out the door, in this vestibule part of it, and flashed some kind of credential and he said, "Where is your telephone, where is your telephone, and said I am so and so, where is your telephone." And he said, "I didn't look at the credential. I don't know who he said he was, and I just pointed to the phone and said, 'there it is,' and went on out the door." Keep Googling yourself Tommy, you'll know when you get it just right.

Or maybe he actually had been there and remembered only the balcony, as it may very well have been the apartment's only "remarkable" feature? Do you think the WC lawyer should have asked him to describe the kitchen, or the bedroom, or the living room, or, heaven forbid, the effing bathroom? --Tommy She didn't try to lock Gary in the bathroom, that didn't work remember ;-) So yeah unremarkable.

Does that look like a Ruth mobile at the curb? And Gary said he had to rent a trailer (Uhaul) to move Oswalds from Ft. Worth to Elsbeth, yet Oswald supposedly moves from Elsbeth to Neely with a pram. Mr. TAYLOR. I believe he had a paper bag of clothing, a rather large one, and an old leather suitcase. And that he had these two containers of personal belongings, and we went to Fort Worth and added Marina's to this--Marina's belongings and the household furnishings, whatever they were. and brought it all to the Elsbeth Street apartment. What could you possibly move on a baby carriage? Besides the baby... Do you think Lee left his furniture with Tobias and Jurek plus his key deposit too? "The furniture was badly worn."~ Gary Taylor

Gene, Interestingly Gary described Neely as if he had only seen one picture, Mr. TAYLOR. Yes; uh--because this apartment in question had a small balcony on the front of it and I remember the door was open and I thought what a nice place for the baby to play and some of the baby's toys--a ball and something or other--were out there on this porch, and I thought how much nicer this was than the apartment they had had.

Bob, The fact Lovelady would be able to see this interaction with Oswald, Truly and Baker leaves little doubt it was an entrance encounter, A front vestibule interaction. Did Lovelady witness the front stairway descent? That can be the only way he would know how a descending descender descended. I have reservations about when Lovelady is claiming Lee descended, was this after Lee got his soda for his lunch. The hearsay doesn't provide the answer. We do know it was not Baker whom stopped Jarman at the front entrance. Baker was at the front blocking the door upon entry. This points us toward the truth. Mr. DULLES. Is it your view he went out the front door rather than one of the back doors? Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir; it is. From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor--it is my view that he walked down the front stairs and just out through the crowd there, probably a minute or two before the police had everything stopped. How does he know this? Reid? Mr. BELIN. Then how do you explain that when you got to the fifth floor, one of the elevators was not there? Mr. TRULY. I don't know, sir. I think one of my boys was getting stock off the fifth floor on the back side, and probably moved the elevator at the time somewheres between the time we were running upstairs. And I would not have remembered that. I mean I wouldn't have really heard that, with the commotion we were making running up the enclosed stairwell. Yet we should believe he heard voices from the lunchroom... hmmm truly remarkable. Oh and Tommy its called a Hallway. A corridor in a building that connects rooms http://the-difference-between.com/vestibule/hallway The purpose of the vestibule , at least in western Europe, was not to provide a resting-place for penitents, but to deaden the noise outside. Drats someone should sue the TSBD architects! Dawn? Tidd?

I would say he believes it in a rather twisted fashion, Sandy. It is really the only way one could believe it. LOL... okay, so my question is a little ambiguous. I hope Paul gets it the other way. Well, Sandy, it's somewhat of an ambiguous issue, so the question is understandably ambiguous. But I understand your intent. Here's my answer: LHO's own words were, "I'm just a PATSY!" Now, by definition, a Patsy is involved with people who don't respect him (or her) in the slightest, and will sacrifice him (or her) in a heartbeat. Usually this involves some kind of crime. In this case, the murder of JFK. Now -- the fact is, a Patsy has been associating with criminals. The Patsy may or may not have knowledge of the crime they are about to commit, but the Patsy is still their FRIEND. Gerry Patrick Hemming told A.J. Weberman that he called LHO on 11/21/1963 from Miami, and offered LHO double the price of his Mannlicher-Carcano rifle if only LHO would hand it over to one of his pals at the TSBD in the morning. Evidently, according to Gerry Patrick Hemming, who was a mercenary on contract to assassinate Fidel Castro, LHO accepted his deal, and took his rifle to the TSBD on 11/22/1963. LHO evidently handed it to somebody in the parking lot, because witnesses tend to agree that LHO didn't take any package into the building with him. There's my point. LHO was *cooperating* with the JFK Killers. LHO *trusted* the JFK Killers enough to hand over his rifle to them. LHO didn't know they were going to Kill JFK and blame him -- but he probably knew that it was for some Underground or criminal activity, otherwise, why the high price and the secret handoff? So, LHO was cooperating with criminals -- and he KNEW it. That's a CLASSIC definition of a Patsy. Trust of the criminals, and doing something stupid for them. Without the rifle in their possession, the JFK Killers could hardly have blamed LHO for the JFK murder. With LHO's rifle in their possession, the JFK Killers had an open-and-shut case. Henry Wade said, "I've sent men to the electric chair on less evidence than this!" So, Sandy, that's what I mean. Even though LHO was totally innocent of killing JFK, nevertheless, he let himself become the PATSY of the JFK Killers, and that made him an Accomplice. Yes, a Patsy is the lowest form of Accomplice, but still. Also, once LHO realized he was a Patsy, as he openly stated, then he could have and should have named names to the Press right then and there. But he didn't. LHO calmed down and kept playing the "Red Maverick" card, and demanded to see New York sedition attorney John Abt, and kept boasting that he was a supporter of the FPCC and that he had lived in Russia. This means, IMHO, that LHO was still hoping that the criminals whom he trusted would "come forward and give me legal assistance." Regards, --Paul Trejo "Now, by definition, a Patsy is involved with people who don't respect him (or her) in the slightest, and will sacrifice him (or her) in a heartbeat." "LHO was cooperating with criminals -- and he KNEW it" Paul ... he was cooperating with the Dallas Police.

"the Un-friendly Pepper-Upper,"

Dawn is a lawyer alright, she mentions it consistently. Does that mean she needs you to defend her? If so what does this say about her lawyering? Are you planning on being a client? Perhaps you can trade some physics lessons for loyering, I'd have her steer clear of any mathematics you offer to tutor. Seeing as you recently went through the forum could you post Greg's bad manners? If you can't then we can all assume your claim is worthless. What Dawn might think and feel really has no bearing on solving a murder. I liked how you used her as a puppet in your dog and pony show to prove how despicable Mr. Parker is though. Seemed like your introduction was a failure. Then you had to add that you were a mod. She must not have been aware of any of your work. She certainly wasn't impressed enough to overlook your association with Mr. Parker to further discuss it. I'd like to say it's her loss, but maybe its the most cunning loyer tactic ever. She is getting to Greg by snubbing Gilbride. It only took a couple years and a few dozen threads to get there. Good work counselor.

Good one Tommy! And, .....or 10 to 15 with good behavior...

We have to understand that Adams & Styles, in 3-inch high heels, could not have beaten Truly & Baker to the freight elevator area. You'd have to imagine the gals as faster than Wilma Rudolph & Wyomia Tyus to get them out of the warehouse unnoticed. Or imagine Truly & Baker as taking a 20-second-plus pause in the lobby, which they nor anybody else ever mentioned. Is this the extent of your math course? The longer it takes Adams/Styles (A/S) to get to the stairs the more likely she and Styles are to run into Baker/Truly (T/B) on those noisy stairs. A/S + Time = T/B +Floors. We can deduce the longer T/B take to ascend, the less floors they climb before running into A/S. The longer A/S take to descend, the more floors T/B will have climbed before running into A/S. What Gilbride would posit is a sloped line on a graph. Where either party being slow or fast shows up as a higher or lower floor (vertical) and speed in the horizontal. This line would need one exact point where both parties speeds and timing allow each, party of two, a chance to pass each other. Yet we saw no Adams and Styles reenactment with Truly Baker included. Of course best to leave unknown variables out of an equation if you want a known conclusion. This is all moot due to Prayer Man, first floor encounter, statements recorded, the accused's claims of innocence and vestibule location, no notes showing he was asked where he was during the shooting (like they knew and did not want that variable entered), the Marta Stroud letter, and a plethora of evidence, solid , tangible evidence,,,, not a fuzzy math equation and trickle down lunchroom logic. We don't have any cause to corrupt the data given us- Baker gets to the steps at 0:22, Truly's only 10 feet from the steps, it's an adrenalized situation, they rush into the warehouse, Adams & Styles leave their 4th-floor window about 0:10, etc. Not to mention Adams & Baker seeing a large black guy downstairs, at different locations. Unless the data given us was corrupted,,, and a innocent man was made to appear guilty. Adams and Styles had their adrenals removed? Being on the first floor would be a large negative factor to your lunchroom encounter equation. (AKA The Gilbride Mathematics and Lunchroom Synopsis) Will Fritz and the prosecution machine were engaged in destroying any alibi Lee had. Did this thought cross your mind? We have 19 other cases as an indicator the DA and Police were corrupt in 1963 Dallas. Go scratch your head somewhere else, this has been solved. Its like you're Bowie, the Lunchroom is your Alamo... only no one cares and your knife is really dull. Large black guys were located throughout the first floor Therefore, when Adams & Styles ran across the 2nd-floor landing, Truly & Baker had to be inside, in the vestibule & lunchroom. The hoaxers have a mental block that forbids this, because they read the testimony (III p. 225) with an extreme bias. I see that you want to extend the time for A/S and compress the time for T/B. That T/B speaking in the vestibule, which was more than four words, in your equation takes less time than the four words supposedly spoken in the lunchroom? Bias perhaps? Did Adams run across the landing? Wait wasn't she slowed due to the heels, or just one heel trying to slow her up postmortem. Good god man which is it is she a rabbit or a turtle? Baker and Truly spotted by Garner, after Adams/Styles had descended, deposits your math course in the circular file professor. Because "..It doesn't work, Richard. Never did, never will..." Face it Adams ruined your bed time story. Styles following closely behind turns it into fairy tale territory. Two gals clomping along in their three inched shoes unheard and unseen, yet an employee on the other side of a wall and door is? If you want to believe everything Baker said then where is your water cooler? Marrion L. Baker and Bow Tie Major Starvis Ellis, who rode in the front of the motorcade relayed his talks after the assassination with and he said This officer (as told by ELLIS) stated he was directly under the building when the shots. were fired. They blocked the main, entrance and after the supervisor arrived he started up the stairs. The building was the Book Depository. Upon going up the stairs, he and the supervisor encountered someone on either the third or fourth floor. This person was drinking water from the water cooler — he did not stop because the supervisor advised the officer that the man was en employee. MAJOR ELLIS stated this officer later identified the man by the water cooler as LEE HARVEY OSWALD! ~ http://www.prayer-man.com/dpd/marrion-l-baker/ I have confirmation the water cooler was between men's and women's bathrooms on the second floor. Baker mentioned a water cooler that he saw Oswald was drinking from. Thanks to Sean Murphy for this. Where does this leave the LRE (lunch room encounter)? Well it gives yet another location which disputes the LRE/ Alamo. Cheers~Ed

I see several bottles up on Six, another on the steps,....hmm, none are a COKE. Must have been a conspiracy against the Coca-Cola company! Seriously even the cops are drinking Dr.Peppers!! I think this was the first ever product placement in an assassination, and Coke wanted in on it! Cheers! ~Ed

The Ruth Letter is dated March 4th As Greg said this could have been a quick stay, and this fits with that. The Tobias english speaking Marina, http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=44&relPageId=266&search=jurek Tobias waves at Marina,...? WTH? http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=44&search=jurek#relPageId=269&tab=page The part at the end about not signing WC statement is a hoot, oh mother! Jenner nearly got whiplash from that exchange between Mr and Mrs. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57698&search=jurek#relPageId=68&tab=page Here we find out the long statement Marina was supposed to have said in english by Mr T. is reduced to a hand gesture! Tobias has issues of credibility. Does Tobias ever call the cops? Nope not once for glass breaking, wife beating, crying baby, late rent, neighbor complaining, xxxx commie? Please....

The whole thing is a quagmire, with one possible solution being that the Oswald's did move in, but were quickly moved out again and replaced by this other couple? I'd go with a Czech coulpe, moved in with a white station wagon, an fluent English speaking lady and an unfriendly Czech husband. But in 1963, people are considerably limited in sharing information. - Gene Right Gene, usually you had a neighborhood snoop. We did in this neighborhood. Greg will recall the Friddles, http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406&relPageId=232 As Mr Parker has pointed out and has been substantiated No rental records were obtained by any of the investigating authorities. No neighbors recognized Oswald from photos as anyone they recalled. One couple actually had little doubt that the apartment was occupied during the relevant period by a couple with two kids - which rules the Oswald's out. Oswald himself apparently denied ever living there - despite living there in and of itself, having not much bearing on the authenticity of the BY photos. The owner, for reasons not given, claims to have padlocked the apartment after it was vacated back in May and that he had cleaned it up at that time. He further claimed some unknown party had been gaining access for unknown reasons in the months leading up to the assassination. There is no doubt (in my mind at least), that Marina never took any BY photos - that the one photo she took was in Minsk with Oswald holding his shotgun above his head. The most puzzling part of Marina's Nixon story was that she locked Lee in the bathroom, seemingly forgetting that the bathroom locked from the inside. I say she didn't forget. She simply didn't know - and the reason she didn't know was because they never actually lived there. Here is Mrs. Jurek speaking, http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142&relPageId=575&search=texas_instruments%20jurek Mrs. Jurek again mentioned http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139&relPageId=451&search=texas_instruments%20jurek The stories in PBM's book try to cover for many aspects, and in so reveal themselves. 3-31-1963 would be a Sunday. This date would be used by Commission and Marina for dating the Back Yard Photos. https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/3xv68gzoao26duyd/images/1-7b6dc1f14f.jpg 4/1 is a Monday. and on Monday Lee gives his employer an address change to the 2915 Po Box in Dallas. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=234&tab=page This same day JCS fires Oswald. So Lee gives $60 to George for rent... Problem is JCS claimed that it had an IRVING address before this. Thanks to Hasan @ ROKC for this. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=127 http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139&search=texas_instruments+jurek#relPageId=452&tab=page When LHO applied for a job at the TSBD, they had 2515 W. 5th St in Irving as his address. Not a Po Box. Of side note: if Lee is getting on a bus other TSBD employees ride to work 4 (or 5 days) a week, they would know generally where their fellow employee lived. Yes? Odd I don't see a lot of Beckley Bus riders involved in the WC report. In fact Beckley rider was ignored over a single questionable Marsalis bus rider, Bledsoe. Cheers! ~Ed

Ruth's was Blue two tone Belair Chevy Station Wagon

Of course they recall the people upstairs being the Oswald's, as that was what they were being told was whom lived there. But under questioning that did not hold true. Sandy, Minnie claimed it was the people she saw on television, and in the newspapers. Clydie did not really know the people upstairs and the woman they talked to was not Russian speaking, no one talked to the man other than a greeting, if that, he was rude and or unfriendly.... and the Grays/Williams never heard any Russian or other foreign language spoken. No fights, etc. Round peg meet square hole.

Whomever lived there was an English speaking woman with a baby, and a man someone whom was not friendly. The conversations with her were recalled by Minnie Williams. Received a call from Kristy Gray, Kristy said she was not living with George and Clydie at the time but said her Aunt(?) was and handed the phone to a Minnie Williams. She worked a lot and had a baby at the time she lived with Clydie but she does vividly recall Lee and Marina with baby June. Marina spoke english to her. Not broken english either. Oswalds did not drive. Did not see any visitors. Did not see them attend church. Doesn't recall landlord/owner. Thinks George and Clydie had a phone, but Marina did not ask to use it as far as Minnie knows. Doesn't recall exactly what her and Marina discussed, baby stuff. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17593&page=5 This Author has concluded the people whom lived till May 1st or 2nd at Neely were not Lee and Marina. Anything Marina says must be vigorously challenged. Lets look at the MC bus ticket (found while working with Priscilla Johnson) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96924&search=spanish_television+program+stub#relPageId=36&tab=page https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96924&search=spanish_television+program+stub#relPageId=37&tab=page https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40#relPageId=612&tab=page This stub was in possession of Ruth Paine, as Marina says later she took this spanish tv program with her to the hotel the 22nd of Nov. Couple points here, is Marina saying she collect these spanish magazines and the tv program after the assassination? Is she saying she took a bus ticket with her to the hotel the first night in her suitcase that she had kept things she did not have till after she would have been at the hotel? which was swept by agents twice. Anyways Marina tries to deflect that the TV program is in spanish (which she can not understand if she can't read the stub) when Russell asks about Lee not being able to understand/read spanish, by saying it wasn't in a spanish magazine but in a TV program, Point was Lee didn't speak/read Spanish. But if she collected it after the assassination how would Lee have slipped a MC bus stub into it. He didn't. The stubs shown are also not in any form English and Spanish. They are for Mexicans not Americans thus in Spanish. While Ruth was in possession of the suitcase at her home is when this item appears in a spanish language tv guide pamphlet. And per Marina its from Ruth's..and Marina never examined it before. Okay, https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96924&search=spanish_television+program+stub#relPageId=8&tab=page Marina says a "person" at her house read the ticket stub and told Marina, Marina gives the material to the FBI. This is very late in the Warren Commissions tenure this material is given to the FBI during PJM snooping about, a "mystery person" at her house reading spanish tickets to her. What was in both Spanish and English exactly like Marina says is not the bus ticket, but the TV guide. My conclusion is she had read an examined this pamphlet and even she may have made some of the markings we see. Would she have liked to of seen a musical? Yes very likely. So where is the Spanish Language Television Programme? What was the date of publication? And the markings? See Below: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10130&relPageId=44&search=spanish_television%20program%20stub https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96924&relPageId=7&search=spanish_television%20program%20stub We are led to believe Lee marked it " LEE OSWA" and was to see an English spoken movie in MC, perhaps West Side Story because Ossie loved show tunes? October 1, 10:31 hours. To phone number 15-69-87. A man outside (MO) calls the Soviet Military Attaché Office speaking in broken Russian. MO: "Hello, I was at your place last Saturday and talked to your Consul. They said they'd send a telegram to Washington and I wanted to ask you if there is anything new. SOVIET: I'd like to ask you to call another phone number. MO: Please. SOVIET: Please write it down; 15-60-55 and ask for a Consul. MO: Thank you. SOVIET: Please"  Page 44. October 1, 10:35 hours. To phone number 15-60-55. A man [MO] described by the translator as the same person who had called a day or so ago and spoken in broken Russian, called the Soviet Embassy Consulate and spoke with the Soviet guard on duty: MO: Hello, this LEE OSWALD speaking. I was at your place last Saturday and spoke to a Consul, and they say that they'd send a telegram to Washington, so I wanted to find out if you have anything new? But I don't remember the name of that Consul." This would be the scribbles in the tv guide. Or so we are led to believe. As Greg and Bill Kelly have noted, Australian researcher Greg Parker however, noticed a similar name in Priscialla Johnson McMcillan's book Lee & Marina (p. 68), in which she notes, on October 31, 1959, former U.S. Marine Corps defector Lee Harvey Oswald left the Hotel Metropole in Moscow and took a taxi to the American Embassy. There he told a receptionist he wanted to "dissolve his citizenship." In the office of U.S. consul Richard E. Snyder, Oswald "slapped his passport down on Snyder's desk and demanded to take the oath renouncing his American citizenship that very moment. And he handed Snyder a letter formally requesting that his American citizenship be revoked and affirming his allegiance to the U.S.S.R. He added that he had been a radar technician in the Marine Corps and would make available to the Soviet government such knowledge as he had acquired." According to PJM, "Richard Snyder was in a dilemma, for Lee Oswald appeared to be sane and he was within his own rights . . . glancing at Oswald's passport and noting that he was still a minor, the boy ought to have time to think it over . . . The exchange lasted less than an hour, but it had so nasty a tone that it was remembered long afterward by three Americans, besides Snyder and Oswald, who were present during parts of it -- John McVicker, the vice-consul, Marie Cheatham, the receptionist, and Edward L. Keenan, a graduate exchange student down for the weekend from Leningrad." Could "Edward L. Keenan," the graduate exchange student in Leningrad and Moscow be the mysterious, "unknown American" Philadelphia Quaker student who also rode Oswald around Mexico City on the back of his motorcycle in the fall of 1963? Parker took his hunch to the internet and came up with one Edward L. Keenan, professor of linguistics at the Univeristy of the City of Los Angeles (UCLA), whose Curricululm Vitae includes a BA degree in Philosophy and Religion from Swathmore College in Philadelpia in 1959 and the Sorbonne (1962), as well as work as an "Escort Interprter" (French-English) for the U.S. Department of State in 1962-64 (summers). A Quaker student from Philadelphia named Edward L. Keenan! (aka Steve) Therefore we have an apparatus with Ruth in the middle which can have sightings of 'Oswald' created for various purposes and situations, bus tickets from 'Oswald' turn up, and notes in Mexican TV guide of 'Oswald' produced at will. Naushon island, the Quakers, The Friends, Antioch, AID,...Ruth has her hand in it all. Along with George de Mohrenschildt, they would have connections to all the major players in the case, much like a left and a right hand. The Mexico City trip story is equal to the second floor lunchroom story. Neither hold water when poked at. Michael Ralph Paine, He attended an interesting school as a youngster. Horace Mann Lincoln "Its predecessor was founded as Lincoln School in 1917 by the Rockefeller-funded General Education Board as "a pioneer experimental school for newer educational methods," under the aegis of Columbia University's Teachers College. In 1941 Teachers College merged Lincoln School with Horace Mann School, which it operated as a demonstration school." He does not show up in the Mannikin the school yearbook associated with the Horace Mann High school New York but in the Fare Forward his senior 1947 yearbook. And an odd coincidence is, "An old school, founded by Horace Mann, Antioch went co-ed, did away with grades and developed work-study programs decades before such things became popular. When Ruth Paine was working with Quakers in Nicaragua in the 1980s, she traveled and attended Quaker meetings with a student or someone affiliated with Antioch, who made others suspicious of them (for keeping notes and taking names), so she maintained her college connections."

Paul doubts you'll publish. Volume One and Two were flukes Greg. Bow out gracefully.

Thanks to all for your interest in getting a scan of the Darnell copy. The likely resolution is 5K for a scan. This would future proof the scan. It will capture edge markings. Numerous labs have the machines of various flavors, scanstations being what we are after. In LA there is Pro-8 , Spectra, Cinelicious and Yale. Of them Cinelicious is preferred. In Maryland are also numerous 5K Lasergraphics Scanstations. Boston's Gamma Ray Digital has a Scanstation. etc Kodak does have a list. Not sure if its up to date. http://motion.kodak.com/motion/support/laboratories_directory/index.htm?blitz=off As David said it should really be a 8K scan, two-times oversampled and down rez your work files to 4K. FilmLight in LA has a Northlight2 for 8K scanning. http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/contacts/locations/locations.php But here is the deal. Darnell clip is a few hundred frames(correct?) a very short clip, but we only need the doorway and a few frames after that for the Lovelady/Shelley "stroll" So a scan of exact frames could be made rather than pop for a full film scan in 8K as that would be cost prohibitive. This is a different animal than we are discussing so keep that in mind. How about 11K 4sec burns of these frames. A scan in Dallas would be perfect should we do a full run. I don't know anyone in the big D that has a machine >2k. I believe 16mm would need minimum 3k to fully capture film grains and any higher is merely preserving it, edge marks, edges for stabilization, and archiving images data FWIW. Thus a 4K Scanity scan will be adequate. Duncan, Say after me, "Film Does Not Have Pixels So It Does Not Have Pixel Resolution." rinse and repeat. Duncan you have the unsubstantiated claims here. You have been shown to hold an untenable position of determining the sex of an unknown person, or unknown to you as you have failed to give a name. Its been shown you both say the image is worthless for determining whom that person is and at the same exhalation describe a woman in minute detail. Hypocritical is the term that Merriam-Webster brings to my attention. Since you can show no single person that can be in PM's position, and you obviously place Oswald elsewhere, It shows an ingrained bias to every single piece of evidence placing Oswald on the first floor and out with Shelley in front. Good show mate! Keep up those standards.