Ed LeDoux

Your smoke-ing witnesses references: Earle V. Brown http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0122a.htm Royce Skelton http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0124a.htm http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0257b.htm http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/Index.htm SM Holland http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0127a.htm http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0249b.htm Austin L. Miller http://historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0252a.htm Thomas Murphy http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/witnessMap/MurphyT.htm http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0433a.htm Walter Winborn http://history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/witnessMap/Winborn.htm Ed Johnson http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/witnessMap/JohnsonEd.htm James Simmons http://history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/witnessMap/Simmons.htm http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0432a.htm Case Closed, Page 256) Richard Dodd http://history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/witnessMap/Dodd.htm http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0433a.htm Clemon Earl Johnson http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1423.pdf http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0433b.htm Nolan Potter http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0432b.htm Lee Bowers http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/Index.htm Senator Ralph Yarborourgh http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/witnessMap/Yarborough.htm LC Smith http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/witnessMap/SmithLC.htm A.D. McCurley http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/McCurley.htm 19H514 JL Oxford http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Oxford.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/oxford1.htm Contract on America: the Mafia murder of President John F. Kennedy By David E. Scheim page 23 note#52 page 407 19H516;CD5,cited in Thompson,p.119;19H514,530 Joe Smith http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/witnessMap/SmithJM.htm Contract on America: the Mafia murder of President John F. Kennedy By David E. Scheim Page 22 note#26, page 406, HAH 5H 553-695 (House Assassination Hearings) Seymour Weitzman http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/Witness/witnessMap/Weitzman.htm (24H228) Contract on America: the Mafia murder of President John F. Kennedy By David E. Scheim page 23 note#52 page 407 19H516;CD5,cited in Thompson,p.119;19H514,530 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0433-001.gif Earle Brown http://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/witnessMap/Brown.htm Mrs. Donald Sam Baker,nee Virgie Rackley 7 H 512+CD5, pp. 66-67 (Mrs. Donald Baker) Gunpowder is smelled near the top of Elm Street. Virgie Baker (Rackley) (on the north side of Elm Street, in front of the Texas School Book Depository), November 24, 1963: “She recalled that after the second shot she smelled gunsmoke but did not know where it was coming from.” [FBI interview, CD5] http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=1210.20;wap2 Cheryl McKinnon, a journalism student who was standing on the grassy knoll, recalls her shock as three shots rang out from behind her....she has written:" [We] turned in horror toward the back of the grassy knoll where it seemed the sounds had originated. Puffs of white smoke still hung in the air in small patches. But no one was visible." 'My Last Look at Mr. President'- San Diego Star News, Nov. 20 1983 see also 6 H 165+"POTP", p. 441 (Tom Dillard), 6 H 233 (DPD Earle Brown), 7 H 487+Capitol Records' "The Controversy"/ interview with Larry Schiller and Richard Lewis (Mrs. Elizabeth "Dearie" Cabell and re: Congressman Ray Roberts), 7 H 512+CD5, pp. 66-67 (Mrs. Donald Baker), 20 H 351 (Kantor re: Ralph Yarborough) + "The Death of a President", p. 156, "Murder From Within", page 65/ interview with Newcomb&Adams, "The Truth About The Assassination" by Charles Roberts, page 17, "Crossfire", p. 16 (all 4 re: Yarborough) , DPD B.J. Martin (see below), DPD Joe M. Smith (CD205, p. 310+"Texas Observer", 12/13/63+"Murder From Within", pages 65 and 92+"Conspiracy", p. 29), and Beverly Oliver ("Nightmare In Dallas", p. 122); ALSO: re: smoke---- 22 H 833 (James L. Simmons), "Rush To Judgment" film 1966 (Simmons, Richard Dodd, Sam Holland, and Lee Bowers), 22 H 834 (Nolan Potter), 22 H 836+"No More Si-lence" by Larry Sneed, pp.79-83 (Clemon Earl Johnson), 19 H 480, 514, 530 (Holland), 6 H 243 (Holland testimony), 19 H 485 (Austin Miller), Thomas Murphy: 5/6/66 interview ("Best Evidence", pages 16 and 723, and "Cover-Up" by Stewart Galanor, page 59), Walter Winborn: 3/17/65 and 5/5/66 interviews ("Best Evi-dence", pages 16 and 723, "Cover-Up" by Stewart Galanor, pages 59-60), and 6 H 230 (Frank Reilly), as well as Jean Hill ("Crossfire", p. 38), Beverly Oliver ("Night-mare In Dallas", p. 122), W.W. Mabra ("Crossfire", pp. 19-20, and "No More Si-lence", p.519 ), and Ed Hoffman ("JFK Breaking The Silence", p. 18). Also, see page 204 of Groden's "TKOAP" for a still photo from the Dave Weigman film which seems to show a puff of smoke lingering out from the trees on the knoll. In addii-ton, the Nix film, the John Martin film, and the Patsy Paschall film are all alleged to have evidence of smoke/ flashes on them. ]; http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v4n2/v4n2part5.pdf ASSASSINATION RESEARCH Vol.4 No. 2 © Copyright 2006 Vincent M. Palamara Of note Weitzman said the footprints didn't make sense behind the fence because they were going different directions....Same as Holland. That equals corroboration by a LEO. Ed

Bill, all three parts are here: http://roswell.fortunecity.com/angelic/96/pconline.htm

Tom I think I broke my chair on this, luckily floor was there to break my fall

Excellent replies Martin and Richard!! I wanted to add: Deputy Sheriff LC Smith, AD McCurley, JL Oxford and Seymour Weitzman all reported smoke mentioned by bystanders coming from the fence area. Ed

Thanks for those Duncan, Josiah Thompson asked: "I’ve read at some point or other that Dallas policemen who ran into the knoll area encountered railroad men who told them they saw smoke. We know that several men standing with S.M. Holland on the overpass saw smoke near the stockade fence. The fact that Dallas police officers submitted reports or said they encountered such individuals gives even more credence to their claims." Bugliosi says in his deceptive tome Reclaiming History Page 894, per Monty Lutz, that if a modern rifle with smokeless ammunition was fired a small puff of grey smoke would be visible but only briefly and would dissipate very quickly, especially on a windy day such as it was. Smokeless doesn't mean no smoke or zero smoke it means exactly what it states it smokes less. Several of my friends are into muzzle loaders and they are quite accurate with them. These black powder weapons do belch smoke and that smoke does not as readily dissipate. But beyond that, Bug noted Sterling Mayfield Holland pointed to an area in front of the fence, some 11 feet, and under a tree or trees was where the smoke was. Bug discredits Holland because of where he said he saw the smoke and it wasn't near the top of the fence where it should be. Well Bug if its a windy day why would the smoke stay or hang near the top of the fence? The smoke would go where the air took it, Bug eats his own foot every time I read a page of his 'book'. Because he wants you to focus on one person and then says Holland imagined it, its a psychological condition, etc. I suppose he imagined his Sheriff's affidavit too. I see, so this mental state of Holland must have spread at the speed of smoke to: Cheryl McKinnon Walter Winborn Ed Johnson Thomas Murphy Austin Miller James Leon Simmons Richard C. Dodd Clem Earl Johnson Nolan H Potter Ed Hoffman* Wilfred or Wilfled Daetz* Lee Bowers Beverly Oliver Royce Skelton Senator Yarbrough comments on smelling gun smoke from the knoll, Patrolman Smith corroborates this smell, as does Mrs. Cabell and Congressman Ray Roberts. So did DPD Earle V. Brown and Mrs. Donald Baker. Include Patrolman Joe Smith too to the others whom smelled lingering smell of gunpowder. Weigman captured the smoke in one clear frame. "The statements of these men were known to the Warren Commission. Eleven of them saw or smelled smoke in the moments after the shooting. That they not only saw smoke, but reported it to Sheriff's deputies charging into the railroad yards after the shooting, is confirmed, furthermore, by the reports on the shooting of Deputy Sheriffs A.D. McCurley (19H514) and J.L. Oxford (19H530). Although a few of those seeing smoke thought this smoke came from the motorcycles and/or the impact of a bullet on the street, such smoke was not noted by others closer to the action. As a result it seems possible that, in looking down on the action, they'd confused smoke in front of the limo with smoke behind it. In any event, the bulk of these witnesses thought they'd seen smoke, and thought it had come from the direction of the stockade fence or grassy knoll." http://www.patspeer.com/chapter7%3Amorepiecesofthepuzzle Now is it sheer coincidence that witnesses heard shots and observed smoke from the knoll, not if we add the SCENT of gunpowder. Ed Ref: Contract on America: the Mafia murder of President John F. Kennedy- By David E. Scheim Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy- By Jim Marrs http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/the_critics/griffith/Grassy_knoll_and_shots_from_front.html *A contentious issue is if Hoffman was where he said he was. As is Wilfred or Wilfled Daetz' claim. 11-22-63 statements to the Dallas County Sheriff’s Department, 16H496 FBI reports And Education Forum various threads.

Your welcome Ray, I guess the only "proof" of ownership by LHO was the baby picture taken with the IR camera. "Three edges of the shadowgraph of the film-plane aperture were also visible on one of the photographs of General Walker's house, not having been blocked out in the making of the print. On the basis of these three margins, Shaneyfelt determined that this photograph had also been taken with Oswald's Imperial Reflex camera. Shaneyfelt could not determine whether 133-A had been photographed with the Imperial camera, because the negative of 133-A had not been found, and the print itself did not show a shadowgraph area." http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-10.html "...In the case of Commission Exhibit No. 2, which is a print of the alley in the back of the Walker residence, this shadowgraph appears around three of the edges of this photograph and. therefore, it has been used for such a comparison." http://www.jfkballistics.com/shaneyfelt_lyndal_wch15p686_702.html If you study the info in the my other post things are sketchy as statements contradict each other regarding the camera. Ed

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pdf/WH25_CE_2557.pdf The following investigation was conducted in connection with the Imperial Reflex camera identified as Federal Bureau of Investigation Laboratory D-146 . On February 16, 1964, ROBERT LEE OSWALD, 1009 Sierra Drive,' Denton, Texas, viewed photographs of a Stereo Realist Camera and acuera-2 camera and advised that he did not recognize either of the cameras as having been the property of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, but also stated he was not familiar enough with the cameras owned by LEE HARVEY OSWALD to either state that the cameras in question did or did not belong to LEE HARVEY OSWALD . On February 17, 1964, a photograph of the -Smena-2' camera (referred to above as the Cuera-2 camera), which is inventory Its . 378, and bears Serial No . 627250, was exhibited to MARINA OSWALD and she identified this camera as identical with the Russian camera owned by LEE HARVEY OSWALD . She was also shown the photograph of the Stereo-Realist camera which is Inventory Item No . 378 and which bears Serial No . A60979, but she could not identify this camera and stated it was not the property of LEE HARVEY OSWILD, as far as she knew . On February 18, 1964, MARINA OSWALD described the camera with which she took the photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD holding a rifle in his hands . She stated she believed she took this photograph with an American camera owned by OSWALD . She stated it was an American-made camera Which had a grayish color, somewhat like aluminum and stated it was a box-type camera . She stated she was not completely sure, however, as to whether the camera had an extending bellows . She stated she could recall that she sighted the camera by looking down into a viewer at the top of the camera . She stated she did not know the whereabouts of this camera at the present time, but could identify it 1f she saw it again. On February 19, 1964, Detective JOHN A . MC CABE, Irving Police Department, Irving, Texas, advised that he was present at the residence of Mrs . RUTH PAINE On November 23, 1963, when the Dallas Police Officers executed a search warrant of Mrs . PAINE's residence . Detective MC CABE advised that he assisted the Dallas Police Officers in this search and is certain that he saw a light gray box camera in a box in Mrs . PAINE's garage . MC CABE stated that this camera was in a box which contained books and photographs belonging to LEE,HARVEY OSWILD . MC CABE stated he searched this box and did not take the camera since he did not consider it to be of evidentiary value . On March 23, 1964, Detective MC CABE advised that during the search of the garage at the PAINS residence, where most of LEE HARVEY OSWALD's belongings were located, he was going through a box containing some books, some pictures, and a camera . He took the camera out of the box, put it on a dresser and searched the box in detail, and then put the camera back in the box . He described the camera as of a square, reflex type which appeared in such poor condition that he believed it was not capable of taking pictures . Detective MC CABE was shown Federal Bureau Of Investigation Laboratory Photograph D-146 of an Imperial Reflex camera which had been obtained from ROBERT OSWALD on February 24, 1964, and he stated the camera in this photograph appeared identical with the one he described above . Detective MC CABE stated that in his opinion the Dallas Police Officers, who were also participating in the search, did not see this camera and did not search this particular box . He stated he had already searched the box and told them so . He did not point out the camera to them. On February 24, 1964, ROBERT LEE OSWALD made available a Duo-Lens Imperial Reflex camera made in the United States of America . It is aluminum colored and has a matching gray plastic carrying strap . The film size is indicated as 2k X 2h and it uses Roll Film No . .620 . ROBERT LEE OSWALD advised that in about 1957, LEE HARVEY OSWALD purchased a camera at about the time he first went into the U . S . Marine Corps ., About 1959 When LEE HARVEY OSWALD went to Russia, he left this camera with ROBERT at Fort Worth, Texas . In about August 1962, after returning from Russia, LEE HARVEY OSWALD regained possession of this camera from ROBERT and, to ROBERT's knowledge, retained possession of it until his death on November 24, 1963 . In December 1963 ROBERT stated he obtained this camera, along with other effects of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, from the home o£ Mrs . R. .a PAINE, Irving, Texas . The above-described Duo-Lens Imperial Reflex camera was the camera described above by ROBERT LEE OSWALD and the camera which he made available on February 24, 1964 . To the best of ROBERT's knowledge, the camera did not have film in it at the time be obtained it from Mrs . PAINE's residence and he has no undeveloped film or pictures made with this camera . On February 25, 1964, the above-described Imperial Reflex camera obtained from ROBERT LEE OSWALD on February 24, 1964, was exhibited to MARINA OSWALD, at which time she identi fied it as the camera belonging to LEE HARVEY OSWALD with which she had taken the picture of Oswald holding the rifle and newspaper and wearing the pistol . COMMISSION EXHIBIT No. 2557-Continued On March 14, 1964, Detectives JOHN P . ADAMCIK, RICHARD S . STOVALL, GUY P . ROSE, and HENRY M. MOORE of the Dallas Police Department advised that they participated in a search of the PAINE residence, 2515 West Fifth Street, Irving, Texas, on November 22 and 23, 1963 . All four Of these individuals were exhibited a Federal Bureau of Investigation Laboratory Photograph No . D-146 of the Imperial Reflex camera obtained from ROBERT LEE OSWALD on February 24, 1964 . None of these officers could recall ever having seen this camera and did not recall seeing it during a search of the garage at the PAINE residence . They all stated that if it had been discovered during the search, they would have brought it in . On March 23, 1964, Detectives STOVALL, ROSE and MOORE all advised that during the search o£ the PAINE residence they recalled that there were several boxes in the garage at the PAINE residence and that all boxes were searched by one of the officers participating in the search . Each of them stated they could not specifically state which boxes they searched, but all stated they definitely did not see the Imperial Reflex camera pictured in Federal Bureau of Investigation Laboratory Photograph No . D-146, or any other camera in the PAINE garage. On March 24, 1964, Detective ADAMCIK also stated that there were several boxes in the garage at the PAINE residence and that all boxes were searched by either himself or one the of other officers . He could not specifically state which boxes he searched, but stated he definitely did not see the Imperial Reflex camera pictured in Federal Bureau of Investigation Laboratory Photograph No . D-146, or any other camera in the garage . On March 15, 1964, ROBERT OSWALD, 1009 Sierra, Denton, Texas, advised that on December 8, 1963, be obtained property of LEE HARVEY OSWALD and MARINA OSWALD which was at the home of RUTH PAM is Irving, Texas . Included in this property was a box which contained a two-volume history, some Russian books, and a small American-made camera . He stated he had never made this camera available to authorities before February 24, 1964, because he had never been asked for it previously and because he could see no evidentiary value to anyone interested in the assassination o£ President JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY of this cheap camera which belonged to LEE HARVEY OSWALD . He stated that it had never occurred to him that anyone would be Interested in the camera . Photographs.---In her testimony before the Commission in February 1964, Marina Oswald stated that when Oswald returned home on the night of the Walker shooting, he told her that he had been planning the attempt for 2 months. He showed her a notebook 3 days later containing photographs of General Walker's home and a map of the area where the house was located. Although Oswald destroyed the notebook, three photographs found among Oswald's possessions after the assassination were identified by Marina Oswald as photographs of General Walker's house. Two of these photographs were taken from the rear of Walker's house. The Commission confirmed, by comparison with other photographs, that these were, indeed, photographs of the rear of Walker's house. An examination of the window at the rear of the house, the wall through which the bullet passed, and the fence behind the house indicated that the bullet was fired from a position near the point where one of the photographs was taken. The third photograph identified by Marina Oswald depicts the entrance to General Walker's driveway from a back alley. Also seen in the picture is the fence on which Walker's assailant apparently rested the rifle. An examination of certain construction work appearing in the background of this photograph revealed that the picture was taken between March 8 and 12, 1963, and most probably on either March 9 or March 10. Oswald purchased the money order for the rifle on March 12, the rifle was shipped on March 20, and the shooting occurred on April 10. A photography expert with the FBI was able to determine that this picture was taken with the Imperial Reflex camera owned by Lee Harvey Oswald. (See app. X, p. 596.) http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/walker.txt due to details visible in construction work in the picture. Markings at the edge of the negative indicated that the photograph was taken with Oswald's Imperial Reflex camera to the exclusion of all other cameras. Other photographs, such as of the railroad tracks by Walker's house, also were taken with Oswald's camera. http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JA/DR/.dr08.html WR 404-6; CE 133; CE 134; CE 1351.7-8; CE 1406; 1 H 15-7, 22-3, 37-9, 117-8; 11 H 292-6. Once again we have Lee supposedly buying a Money Order for the rifle but sends cash for the pistola??? MARINA was questioned concerning cameras which were owned by LEE HARVEY OSWALD and her. She said that they owned two cameras. One of these cameras was a Russian camera which had been purchased by LEE HARVEY OSWALD at Minsk in September, 1961. This camera had been cheap in price but it was a good camera. This camera was brought by the OSWALD's to the United States when they returned from Russia and was among the effects of the OSWALD's at Dallas on November 22, 1963. Marina said OSWALD had purchased this camera after he had left another camera in a cafe in Minsk and had lost it. The other camera owned by the Oswald's was a United States made camera which LEE HARVEY OSWALD had owned prior to his entry into the U.S. Marine Corps and this was the camera which he had taken pictures with when he was in the Marine Corps. When he went to Russia, Oswald left this camera with his brother ROBERT OSWALD. When Oswald and Marina returned from Russia, ROBERT returned the camera to OSWALD and it was among the effects the OSWALD's had on November 22, 1963. on 1/29/65 at Dallas, Texas File # DL 100-10461 By Special Agent RICHARD J. WIEHL and WALLACE E. HEITHAN Date Dictated 1/30/64 MARINA was exhibited a photograph which is item 378 of an inventory list prepared by the FBI which photograph depicts two cameras. One a "Cuera - 2" and the other a "Realist". She said the cameras depicted in this photograph appear to be the cameras which were owned by her and her husband. She said the "Cuera - 2" camera appears to be the Russian camera and the "Realist" appears to be the American made camera. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/exhibits/ce1155.htm Ed

Deleted by author.

Don, If they keep repeating it enough times it must make it so. These guys better decide whether its better hanging on the cross or banging in the nails. Currently they are showing stigmata. Ed

I did a follow up with both Clydie Gray and James Jackson. The conversation with James was very friendly as was Clydie. Asked James about the pay slips and if he recognized his signature, he thought it is his hand writing. James said he showed the pics I sent him to his daughter 'Patricia' and she thought the pic was of her. (Baby June Photo) James didn't think it was her because his wife Sally Ann (Bryer) took the kids back to Chicago, ran off with them. Sally said she (per James) knew Ruby. Some sort of Chicago connection. I asked him about the insurance man he caught on the back stairs, James could not recall his name but he worked at Prudential. Said he gave him an insurance payment, didn't think much about it since the guy had a reason, business, to be there. Again he stated his boy was born at Neely and girl was born after leaving Neely. (N. Boulevard Terrace) Clydie Gray talked about Minnie Williams (whom lived with the Grays) talking to Marina. She said they both had babies and would speak to each other often. (No Russian/foreign language) Marina would stroll around the baby a lot. Oswald did not speak much if at all to her. She never saw any weapons. She remembered James Jackson living there at Neely. (This surprised me!) She recalled arguments from the upstairs when Oswald fought with Marina. I asked if she could tell if they spoke Russian or English when they fought, she couldn't tell just loud banging on floor etc. I asked if it could have been the baby playing, she said NO it was many loud arguments. She said ask Minnie about it. Again no Russian was spoke in her presence that she recalls. Ed

Yeah David I'll agree with you, he took possession of it all right, knowingly or not, willingly or not it, and it could very well be prior to 1:50 PM CST on 11/22/1963, but only just. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_time_was_lee_Harvey_oswald_arrested Ed

Jim, We have to thank David Joseph for spurring the conversation onward. The more DVP struggles in this slip knot the tighter the noose, so I relish "his replies" (or whomever writes his material). Ed

Belin was probably inquiring about a possible money order that Oswald might have used to pay the C.O.D. balance of $19.95 (+$1.27) when he picked up the revolver. What makes you think Belin was talking about Oswald's deposit payment of $10.00? We have no idea how Oswald paid REA for the balance of the payment. He could have used a money order. Or maybe he again paid cash. Right NOTHING showed REA gave a receipt to anyone for $21.22, was REA also using the Michaelis system of accounting? No REA customer receipts, no REA ledger books for monies, no REA bank statements, no REA bank receipts. It was easy for Michaelis to show a ledger entry for that day but none was offered. Again where is the accounting for the $19.95 (+1.27 COD) for the day Lee supposedly picked up the pistol? There is none. How do we know the whole thing was not done after the fact. Nothing you have is proof Lee received a weapon. What you have is EXCULPATORY evidence. So you admit that Seaport took cash through the mail? You admit they could not show this transaction on their books? There is nothing that ties this supposed $10 to Lee. Below is link to a Seaport ad from 1960, interesting they show a line for CASH. Why did they stop using the ad with a line for cash David? Also changed is the STATEMENT line, here they don't ask for a witness. So David, things changed for Seaport: They no longer added a line for cash. They added a witness line. http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/ENFIELD%20SNUB/ENFIELD%20SNUB.htm When was the DL-28 receipt printed? By that I mean when did George Rose and Co / Seaport order these invoices? Did they change invoices every time they changed ads? NO They continued to use the same invoices even though they stopped taking cash through the mail. Now how detailed was Michaelis in his book keeping? Mr. BALL. Do you maintain a record of all sales of guns in a book? Mr. MICHAELIS. Yes; in this book here. Mr. BALL. You have the book before you, do you not? Mr. MICHAELIS. Yes. Mr. BALL. That is a black, looseleaf notebook; looseleaf notebook with a black cover. Is that correct? Mr. MICHAELIS. Correct. Mr. BALL. And you keep that in handwriting, or by typewriting? Mr. MICHAELIS. Handwriting. Mr. BALL. Do you keep a typewritten or handwritten record? Mr. MICHAELIS. Handwritten. So we see Michaelis kept a handwritten accounting, a ledger, showing gun sales. Are you asking me to believe he, as a supervisor/office manager, did not take the same care with Seaports monies? How much cash did Seaport receive that day David? How many Money Orders? How many checks? Where is the accounting? Same goes for REA!! As Jim DiEugenio asked you: "where is the bank receipt as it was produced for the MC (rifle)? Did Belin learn his lesson there? It backfired on him that time so he just does not ask to see it this time." Questions you avoid because you don't have answers...answers Belin knew he should avoid also. Why did they not ask Vaughn? Would she have been able to show this was not a proper transaction thus was never called? As DVP asked, "What makes you think Belin was talking about Oswald's deposit payment of $10.00?" What makes you think a business selling guns mail order couldn't show an accounting for a ten dollar transaction? Ed

No line for cash because they should not accept cash through the mail! It was policy to accept payment in the form of MO or Check. You should 'check' the procedures at that time for selling mail order weapons too. For Michaelis to be correct it would need to be demonstrated how he came to the 'conclusion' Seaport received this payment. Again no ledger entries were entered into evidence just an order someone wrote paid on. No accounting of any sort to show Seaport deposited this odd TEN bucks CASH when its pretty clear Seaport took payments as Money Order or Check. Remember Seaport was an offshoot Mail Order Company. So where is Michaelis' ledger book showing deposits on that day for this mail order company? Okay David, If we know it was cash and the Warren Commission knew it was cash, then... Why ask Holmes about a Money Order to Seaport? Was Belin just shooting the breeze with Harry? Ed

And on the line for CHECK (as opposed to the line for MONEY ORDER) was listed $10 dollars. So the question should be...Where is the Check for the $10 dollar deposit? Till DVP can cough up a Check, by an Oswald or an Hidell, his trying to steer the thread off course will not stand. Show me where Harry Holmes was asked to go find a $10 dollar Check/MO to Seaport? Show me where Harry or anyone took it upon themselves to find a Check/MO to Seaport? If DVP is right (bear with me) if Lee ordered a pistol, why drop this line of investigation and go after all the other bits to put a rifle in his hands, and we are to believe the Check-Money Order-Envelope-etc were not important to Harry Holmes a quote "trained suspicioner"?!?! Here is the sum total of this inquiry: Mr. BELIN. Do you have any information on the money order for the pistol or how the pistol was paid for, or was there a money order? Mr. HOLMES. No, sir. Nice answer, and as clear as mud... Ed

Thanks Duncan. .. I will keep documenting this research here: thanks for yr interest, and remember: my whole files are avaible to you if you need... Much thanks Christian!

You know it does sound familiar now you mention it...or it could just be my 'Vu Jade' (stuff that's never happened before but I know it) Opposite of Deja Vu.

Okay Thanks Christian, I understand much better now. I agree with 99% of the operational theory. I am asking for the 'sponge' to be wrung out completely then filter the colorization of some info back down to a more perceivable level. When the 'sponge' gets wrung out everything in a sense gets wet with all the info. I would like to see a refinement to this. If its even possible. Its like the orchestra all tuning their instruments at once (all info from each musician) If we could just 'hear' the woodwinds or just the percussion it would clear the air so their individual notes hit my ear...so to speak. You are the conductor, the symphony has already been written. I'll examine this closer. Hope a sonata is in the works. Ed

Hey Ian, There is a bit more motion blur to the car on 459, much more than the LP. I'm examining the sign on the lamp post, it appears blurred as to look twice its size on 458, which is interesting as the post itself does the opposite when you follow it down to the car it gets so small it basically vanishes. A curious optic effect? 458 = Car is sharp but Lamp blurred. 459 = Car blurred but Lamp sharp. Ed

Lee, I hope he keeps the decorum a bit higher here. This is the EDUCATION Forum you know, not sure what one liners he has learned would help teach us squat. Ed

Hello Daniel, I thought for a second the frames were out of order...but that is not a reason for the LP to change sides of the street and go from in front to behind the limo. Nice eye Mr. Meyer! 456 shows a brightly lit street impinging on both sides of the lamp post causing it to neck down in this area. 457 shows the Lamp Post covering a portion of the Continental Kit (Spare Tire Cover) and Clint Hill almost disappears into the dark background. No distortion of the LP since it is surrounded by dark objects. But for 458 to be believed would mean the bumper reflection was so bright as to render the lamp post as thin as a pencil, and the reflection would have to be equally bright on both sides of the LP on that bumper to accomplish this. A possibility. Ed

Hello Christian, First let me congratulate this mans efforts. It seems to show more information about the image than we previously had. But, I have a question. I note the close ups have a certain 'noise' associated with them. The noise causes the retaining wall to be irregular and not sharp with clearly defined edges. Would you agree? Where as a close up without enhancement would still have some loss of sharpness it would be far less and show an 'edge'. What I am getting to is the image is of a sharp well defined edge of a wall yet we see a bumpy un-smooth edge when enhanced. This gives me pause when examining the image of the face. How do I, or you, know the details on the image of the face are not directly because of these same type bumps and noise. Can you show me the edge of the wall without it being noisy/bumpy (because I know in reality it is smooth and flat). Thanks. Ed

If David doesn't thank you for the 'rehash' let me. Thank you Jim. "6 days after the undetermined bullet came back", I'm guessing, would be 2 days after it was sent? Cunningham retrieved three more on 03/13/64 Warren Commission Volume III, page 474 They were entered into the FBI lab on March 16 and then examined on the 17th of 1964. The DPD sent the first bullet (and claimed it was the only one from Tippit's body) on 11-22-63. Boggs said it best himself: "I know - We are not following the exact rules of evidence around here" http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=39&relPageId=481 Now wait! As Cunningham states the first bullet sent was the 'Button Bullet' Q13 as it was sent with the button and was said to have been inside Tippit. First that is the WORST piece of evidence to send!!! The most mangled bullet that would surely be harder to ID than any of the others to hit Tippit. Boggs was right. Ed

Thank you Tom, That was the connection I heard about through the family but was not clear on: Joan's aunt, Gertrude Vanderbilt Whitney, was a relative of the Harrimans. Gertrude's son, Cornelius Vanderbilt (`` Sonny '') Whitney, long-time chairman of Pan American Airways (Prescott was a Pan Am director), became Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Air Force in 1947. Sonny's wife Marie had divorced him and married Averell Harriman in 1930. Joan and Sonny's uncle, Air Marshall Sir Thomas Elmhirst, was director of intelligence for the British Air Force from 1945 to 1947. Whitney, Vanderbilt, Harriman, Elmhirst. I also want to thank you for the article that preceded that info: "The Brass Check A Study of American Journalism By Upton Sinclair, Chapter XXII: A Millionaire And An Author". You want to know what $65 million would be in today's dollars!! A 'million heir' back then was really worth something, but to be valued at a worth sixty five times that, is an astounding amount, even now. "Who owns the press, and why? When you read your daily paper, are you reading facts, or propaganda? And whose propaganda? Who furnishes the raw material for your thoughts about life? Is it honest material? No man can ask more important questions than those; " Great questions. Ed

Mainstream is actually better than simply Media. Since AM Radio, Books, Magazines, and some Television are PRO-Conspiracy at least on the JFK assassination, that would imply the NY Times, ABC, CBS, NBC's of the world are the mainstream and thus anti-conspiracy. Eastern power brokers are not into the business of ratting on their friends, or even shining a light in their general direction. That would be my distinction between the two. Ed