Ed LeDoux

I can't dispute Greg Parker's claims depends on which 'claims'. If he's referring to the 'first time anyone ever questioned Baker's story was 13 or 15 years ago. Then I'd say 'not likely'. It's obvious from the records that there was clearly a discrepancy no later than 11/24/63. It's hard to believe that 'no one' questioned that for 35 years. Kenneth, I'm not for a minute disputing no one ever questioned Baker's story. You guys keep repeating the same refrain and I keep agreeing with you. This is a mountain of proof for such questioning. But you all keep avoiding the actual issue I'm raising - that is that no one ever specifically put forward that the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter was false in its entirety. As for the discrepancies between Baker and Truly's first day statements - no one questioned that. Why? Because Baker's statement got buried and he was kept away from the media. In all of the subsequent years when he was interviewed or questioned - including by the WC and BBC trial - no one - NO ONE ever produced Baker's first days statement, waved it front of him and grilled him about it. So your whole premise that it seems impossible to you that no one ever questioned it in all that time, is based on a false assumption that everyone was aware of what he originally said. They were not. It was deep-sixed. is based on a false assumption that everyone was aware of what he originally said. I'm sure I heard the story back at the time that Baker said he had encountered LHO in his search of the building. Hundreds of stories were run on all the channels back then and they put everyone that wanted to be on tv on to tell their stories. I know I heard of the encounter. I did not write a book saying that I didn't believe the story,, I just took it for what it was. I do know just from what I see now that on day one, Truly said the encounter was in the lunchroom. As far as I know, the stories were told independently on 11/23 with Baker saying 3rd or 4th floor and Truly saying 2nd floor lunchroom. Were they both supposed to say the same thing. Is it possible that was part of the conspiracy. Sure. Baker was kept away from the media until he got on board the 2nd floor lunchroom story. There was no lunchroom on the 3rd or 4th floors - no door with window to look through. Baker's man was 30 years old, 165 pounds and wearing a brown jacket. It was not Oswald. It was not on the 2nd floor. I did not come to this via any one else's work. I came to it by having the time and discipline to force myself back in 2001 to read through every single DPD file. Next these jokers will try and take away Sean Murphy finding PM is Oswald, even tough some looked at the image but never questioned it could have been LHO before Sean did. Sean and Greg and many others whom broke ground deserve to be credited for such. A good researcher will go back and see where and if a similar idea was presented, what became of the research and why it never made the leap. Just as Greg is showing here.

Gee, Ed, I'm sure you'll be disappointed to learn that I did a Google search for you and couldn't find any quotes attributed to you. So whatever you said, if it lives on, it's by quotes from others. Sorry. Sorry to learn your search was empty, by that I mean no quotes attributed to you. My quotes are here and on many forums, so no they live on as my words. https://www.google.com/search?q=ed+ledoux+jfk&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 Although some researches do give proper credit like Hasan. http://jfkthelonegunmanmyth.blogspot.com/2014/09/a-few-words-on-former-dpd-captain.html Its not just words but the ideas, like Greg has shown, have been copied and used as their own without proper credit. Much is gone like material at Lancer I developed. But yet a simple google of Ed Ledoux did return results. Research that is original. Hatbadge Man, Bus Transfer, etc, are proof. Other sites quoting that research is proof. Cubans Packin' In The Plaza - The Education Forumeducationforum.ipbhost.com › ... › JFK Assassination Debate Dec 25, 2006 - 13 posts - ‎4 authors Ed, Great post. Although I can't make out a "couple" in the second photo, .... [quote name='Ed LeDoux' post='86311' date='Dec 25 2006, 05:44 ... Plagiarism and the Kennedy assassination - JFK ... 15 posts Jul 27, 2015 Where is the CHECK/MO for Oswald's $10 - Page 3 ... 15 posts Nov 24, 2011 Hat Badge Man @ Love Field 2 posts Feb 21, 2007 Shot from the North - Page 2 - JFK Assassination Debate 15 posts Dec 22, 2006 Topic: Dallas Transit Transfers - Reopen Kennedy Case www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/.../13122617-dallas-transit-transfers-?... June 27, 2015 at 5:47 AM, Flag Quote & Reply ... Ed Ledoux at May 4, 2015 at 5:56 AM. Excellent job mate! 401 or 402 perhaps? 402, is what came to me when I ... Topic: The Roll Call Remedy by Ed Ledoux - Reopen Kennedy Case www.reopenkennedycase.org/.../13177161-the-roll-call-remedy-by-ed-l... Apr 28, 2015 - Site Owner Posts: 1142. Each name was called off for warehouse employees and Lee Oswald was absent. After this Report by R. W. Westphal, ... Looks Remarkably Like Oswald May 3, 2015 Billy Lovelady Location Mar 15, 2015 214 Neely Street Feb 9, 2015 More results from www.reopenkennedycase.org The 'WATCH LIST' - JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forumeducationforum.ipbhost.com › ... › JFK Assassination Debate Sep 20, 2011 - 10 posts - ‎4 authors Neely Street. She recalled OSWALD's watch had been in disrepair and, ... Edited by Ed LeDoux, 20 September 2011 - 06:28 PM. Back to top ... A Guy In Minnesota/Oswald and Naval Intelligence Jan 8, 2012 Neely St Questions - Page 5 Apr 10, 2011 "Oswald and the Amazing Technicolor Jacket" May 1, 2007 Oswald accused of shooting BB gun at New Yorkers reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t561-oswald-accused-of-shooting-bb... 5 posts - ‎2 authors by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 27 Nov 2013, 9:59 am. Philip Jacobs, who was 73, summoned stories from bygone New York, of Lower East Side toil, business success ... The Jacket Frame-Up - Lee-Harvey-Oswald-Not-Guilty oswald-not-guilty.blogspot.com/.../lee-harvey-oswald-jacket-frame-up.ht... Jul 28, 2012 - A STUDY BY ED LeDOUX, et al: "Oswald and the Amazing Technicolor Jacket" ..and the chameleon like qualities of the alleged assassin's coat ...The Georges of Neely Street - Gayle Nix Jackson gaylenixjackson.com/jfk-assassination/3107/ [v]; Pictures of the Neely home from the inside thanks to JFK Lancer.[vi]; I have been told that the current owners of the ... [v] Ed Ledoux interview with Clydie Gray ...Hmm looks like I've been quoted. How bout you?

I wish somebody would plagiarize me. --Tommy Tommy! You devil. ;-)

Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired? Looking for a new employee to fill a sudden vacancy.

Sorry Ian, even the Writers Guild has standards.

Sorry Greg I "thought" this same thing. I can't prove it. But by my saying I did and before you did I am obviously the originator.... I've seen some of my work in other webpages without credit. Some real pieces of work around these parts

Should add a "toothfairy" page Greg.

Greg, never tell the zoo animals they are caged. Natural Enclosure is the correct term. No wonder DVP is from Indiana. That is where the Indy 500 is run, you know, going in circles all day. It fits him. As long as he keeps the zoo animals chasing their tails he wins the race! If anything Greg is rattling your cages trying to wake you up.... H & L

I accept this as a sincere apology. Sorry I was short with David about the comment on composite experts and was not more friendly in the previous comments. Of course David is welcome to accept my apology or not. Cheers.

I second that! The must think they are of royal blood and don't want it watered down. Straus Family facts are very interesting Greg. Cheers!

Cox's box top could be a signal, clue, or key. Could be something in Cox's history or location? > R. E. COX AND COMPANY and or The Fair and King Candy Company ;-) LERNER SHOPS (originally The Scott-Harrold Building) - 601 Houston - 1895, 1936, 1946; demolished September 1996. This building was probably one of the largest structures built in Fort Worth in 1895. It spanned across the entire block along 5th Street between Main and Houston. Entrances were on all three streets. Originally, the building had a brick facade with cast iron and wood columns, and was constructed for The Fair Department Store. In 1936, R.E. Cox & Co. moved in and remodeled the store by placing stucco over the brick. The stucco was scored with joints to appear like stone. In 1946, Cox's moved out and The Lerner Shops moved in and remodeled the building again -- So, some flip flopping between Cox and The Fair happens not just with employees, it happens with whole stores! (sarcasm mine) "Over at 7th and Throckmorton, Cox's had the first 5 or 6 floors of the FW Club Bldg" ~ (?Fort Worth Club Building) http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1149 "The Fort Worth Club is a multi use Class B office building located between the corners of Taylor and Throckmorton on 7th Street. This beautiful historic building houses The Fort Worth Club, which is a 5 Star Platinum level city club, The Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Fort Worth, Inc. and many distinguished oil and gas firms, law firms, banks and more. Since 1885, The Fort Worth Club has held a unique place in the heart of Fort Worth. Originally developed to give business leaders an attentive and elegant environment to discuss city commerce and politics,..." http://www.dfwi.org/what-we-offer/real-estate/office/35-Fort-Worth-Club- The overall height of the building is 12 stories. Fakes & Co. were the original tenants of the 6 story base of the building up until 1946, when R.E. Cox & Co. occupied the space until 1955. www.fortwortharchitecture.com/fwclub.htm http://hometownbyhandlebar.com/?p=8940 Whatever the city leaders were thinking, West Berry was a relic in the new urban landscape. Stripling & Cox's department store symbolized the stagnation when it closed in the mid-1990s after more than 40 years as West Berry's retail anchor. "That was the bottoming-out point," Barr said. "When Cox's moved out, there weren't any anchors left." But some good may have come from Cox's demise. "That decision sounded an alarm for leaders of the surrounding neighborhoods," Costa said. "They finally came to see that the time had come to do something about the decline of Berry Street because the street was no longer a great asset for the neighborhood or for the city." (Pictures show "Cox's" sign at this location pre dating the merger) http://www.magarchive.tcu.edu/articles/2007-03-CV.asp?issueid=200703 Front view of the Stripling and Cox store at 6370 Camp Bowie. This store was originally R.E. Cox and Co., better known as Cox's. In the early 1980s, Cox's and a rival department store known as Stripling's were both doing poorly and I believe were nearly out of business. They decided to join forces and became Stripling and Cox, which gave them at least another 25 years of life. They closed permanently not too long after this picture was taken on June 6, 2007. Photo by John Cirillo. http://www.fortworthyesterday.com/stripling.htm http://www.fortworthyesterday.com/pics/Howell-beach-n-belknap-1978-web.jpg It is worth noting that the FBI failed to interview a single co-worker or employer of LEE Oswald's tall-nice-looking mother when she worked for Goldrings, Kreigers, and Holmes Dept Stores in New Orleans and for Clyde Campbell's Men's Store, the City of Ft. Worth, Paul's Shoe Store, Family Publications, and Cox's Department Store in Ft. Worth from 1956 through 1961. The FBI never obtained any employment information, w-2 forms, payroll records, employment applications or anything else from any of her employers. The FBI simply didn't want to interview anyone or gather records..." http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html Cox Box Tops ran in the family!! Basically in Dec 1958 MARGUERITE got hit in the nose "by a box of candy" in COX'S? (Said Oswald and Pic) Or FAIR RIDGLEA Dept. Store? As employee of candy counter ran by King Candy Company at Fair Ridglea she filed a claim for workers comp. Joh Pic said it was Downtown, which does not sound like The Fair Ridglea thus she must have worked the candy counter at Cox's in Oct '58... Who's telling the truth? Did she work at Cox's in '58??? This is part that could use some nailing down: When and where did MO work for Cox's? How do we know? Where did Cox's move into a new location in '55-'56 after moving from the FWClub Building? Where were its locations in 1958? Is there a Cox's Candy Conspiracy, I don't know, but definetely some areas to explore further. (sarcasm mine) NOTES: http://books.google.com/books?id=I1VBUrmaMPkC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=marguerite+oswald+cox&source=bl&ots=M-eHdKBGhx&sig=Gqt5PxICWXOxoLwtbHIyAauXmJY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DMorVJuSL4epogT1qYHQDA&ved=0CGgQ6AEwDg#v=onepage&q=marguerite%20oswald%20cox&f=false The Fair at Ridglea circa 1958 https://www.flickr.com/photos/kamaaina56/2870778269/ http://books.google.com/books?id=Gcf19iJnAk4C&pg=PT174&lpg=PT174&dq=fair+ridglea+department+store+fort+worth&source=bl&ots=I-AXBbEiHH&sig=avkLJn4n4jbjCddsT-tTof-5ujQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6c8rVKGiGYLMoATTvYGICQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=fair%20ridglea%20department%20store%20fort%20worth&f=false Stanley Nyberg, who was Mrs. Oswald'ssupervisor at the King Candy Company in Fort Worth in 1958, said, "Shecame here with her children from New York and had good references" (95).("Children" -- plural -- this after John was married and Robert hadjoined the Marines.)

BUMP! and BUMP!

Nice catch in the witness statement of Scoggins Gil! Seems Scoggins was farther away than we've believed and never had a good look at the suspect. The clues that a human eye would use when the words pronounced are relativeley close, such as poor "Dumb" cop or poor "Damn" Cop, could not be used by the cabbie as he could not see the face or lips to aid his auditory senses. The shooters head was turned away from him and thus the confusion as to the exact words spoken. Clearly the witness did not actually see the shooter. He heard the shooter! Nothing in any statement by Scoggins is there anything about LHO sounding like the shooter. Why not? Maybe because he didn't even sound like the shooter. Can you imagine LHO running along saying "I refuse to answer questions. I have my T-shirt on, the other men are dressed differently. . . . Everybody's got a shirt and everything, and I've got a T-shirt on. . . . This is unfair." All that but not once is Scoggins listening and with wide eyes points at LHO and says 'Yep I'd know that voice anywhere!!' Did not happen because they got the WRONG GUY. "I didn't shoot anyone" ~LHO Ed

Good to have you as a friend Bill! No problem, you have opened a whole new area. From Neely attic to NO placards and film. Dates Lee moved, address changes, etc. ALL IMPORTANT AREAS! And I thank you for the information Bill!! Yes if you can do a search in DC I would be most grateful. I do have a few friends in DC as well as a distant relative. Not sure they would know heads from tails about looking into this though. lol It would be a pretty strange request. "You want me look where for what?" hahaha So I'll keep plugging away at my end. Thanks again Bill, Ed

Ed, Why do you say "the placard" (singular) when Martello clearly said "some placards" (plural)? When Martello says that he "...observed some placards marked as evidence (and) saw that they were signed by the Fair Play for Cuba [Committee]...", I think he was talking about LHO's handbills or flyers, not cardboard (or whatever) signs. I think he simply used the wrong word, "placards", instead of "flyers" or "handbills". Maybe LHO didn't have any signs at all with him when he was arrested. Which would explain why you can't find them in evidence, Ed. And if LHO did have a sign with him, it makes sense that he would have had only one sign with him because passing out flyers and holding more than one sign would have been very awkward, to say the least. Even holding just one sign and passing out flyers would have been awkward. I think Martello was referring to LHO's flyers or handbills (plural), but unfortunately used the word "placards" instead. --Tommy Hi Tommy, I say placard because I want to see the Oswald one. The other was torn up (not Lee's) and placed in a police car and later entered into evidence. (with Lee's) But 'later' all that was referenced by Martello is the handouts and pamphlets. This is why I'm tracing/tracking the film that was taken by the Doyle's. It should show the Placards. But I'm interested in the correlation between the Attic and NO placard of Lee's. Were they the same? If one was found in Neely then it could not have been the same as the NO one. All this is intertwined. Attempting to unravel, it is difficult with witnesses deceased and all. Now Martello talked specifically about the placard of Lee's that had info about membership and other handouts attached to it. The ripped up one was carried by his "assistant"(& was on a stick) Lee's had a string for placing around his neck. Its all in the Doyle/Wilson interviews. It also ties into the pamphlets and handouts sent by FPCC in NY to Lee near the time he left for NO. If these were picked up by Lee at his PO box then why get more printed in NO? Lots of questions to be answered. Still looking for Doyle film to help answer them. Hope this helps Tommy. Two Placards, One was Lee's on a string, second was his helpers and on a stick. (or at least that's the testimony) ;-) Ed

I always hate when a fellow researcher passes. I never got to know Doug except from his work on the assassination. Not only did we loose a fine individual but a irreplaceable resource. My condolences to all, Ed

Very nice Barry! May I ask if this something I can re-post to Deep Politics forum. They were in need of timeline material and this may be a temporary fix till they get the proper programs. I was amassing a collection myself of these. Thank you, Ed

Hello Mr. Costella. Glad you are finding new research material and moving the process forward. I wish others would take their own reins instead of whipping dead horses. Appreciate ALL your efforts John. Ed

Welcome Patrick! I enjoyed you CV and share some of your experiences. My father was recruited by Disney as a animator. I grew up around this. It was a special time for me. I am working on publication of my fathers artworks. I hope you can metal through the posts of "EXPERTS" with rulers here. Great to have an illustrator with a keen eye and sharp wit among us. I read your post above and agree, the Emperor is sans threads. Ed

Excellent John. Yes the gable vent could be thee, or an alternate, way to access the "attic" if there is no apartment Scuttle Hole. Upon reviewing the Lancer photos of Neely, among others, I find the scuttle hole would need to be centered under the Roof Dormers (front or rear) or very center of apt. If the scuttle hole was in say the 'small room' closet off to the side of the house then there would be no space to climb up into the attic as the roof pitch is too shallow. I don't see a place for or an indication of such a ceiling penetration in the photos we have by Tom Jones. On another note: The mail (pamphlets etc) sent by FPCC to Lee, I believe, was not picked up by him before he left Neely for NO. That is if we are to believe he was still at Neely or even 'lived' there. I say "lived" there because he may have dumped Marina there for a week or two while he was elsewhere. I think more scrutiny of the dates regarding the mail are necessary. See John Newman's book Oswald and the CIA pages 290 through 297ish: http://books.google.com/books?id=tfJBrSFNUNkC&pg=PA294&lpg=PA294&dq=214+west+neely+street&source=bl&ots=KP3_3mcjXU&sig=9ppgBs0zbPM7hIy2bIeAzELCWbA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=k9IIT4a6LqiqiQLV5biPCQ&ved=0CFgQ6AEwCTgo#v=onepage&q=214%20west%20neely%20street&f=false If Lee did not take the Placard, pamphlets and flyers/handouts to NO then he had to make more or new ones. Is this where a Kerry Thornley pick up at the printers comes into play? Ed

John, All, This link shows the meters on the side. They are lowered and conduit jogs around area where the lower side window has been covered over or removed. http://www.texasmonthly.com/1000-01-01/webextra13-2.php If James Jackson is correct then other changes were made either after he moved or possibly when Mr. George took it over. He may have had to do some work on it as James said it was pretty rickety when he was there. James was vivid in his description of the place when he lived there. The alley that ran beside the apt. Where things were located, etc. James was so interested he drove up to Dallas to see it again and was glad he did. So was I as it helps us speak the same language about the property. It has yet to be verified but all else fits the meter reader tale. Thanks, Ed

Wrong Craig. But thanks for your opinions. I pointed out the person whom you are having a discussion with is a witness to the other film. Greg doesn't call himself such: "I am a researcher, first and foremost. I am not a "witness" per se." Thus when he says he saw it, it is not hearsay it is a statement of a direct witness. Break out a legal dictionary my friend. This was another film which was viewed by others and they corroborated each other. Why don't you read the threads on this forum. It will answer your questions directly. I would not want to spread "hearsay" by quoting stuff. : "I saw the "other film" so I do not need yet "one more witness" to corroborate Z-film fakery. It is a fact. End of debate." ~ Greg Burnham "I find it counter-intuitive to rely on the extant Zapruder film's "frame count" to make relative determinations that are, by definition, inaccurate due to the inauthenticity of the control source." ~ Greg Burnham "To my knowledge, none have claimed to have seen "the Zapruder Film in its totality". Rather, the claim is that: "The Film I saw impeaches the authenticity of the Zapruder Film because it (the "other film") shows events that are absent from the extant Zapruder film." I have yet to meet anyone who claims that they saw the "un-edited version" of the Zapruder film. A decade ago, some might have referred to the "other film" in such a manner, but that too would be a misnomer." ~ Greg Burnham "The title: "Other Film" is, first of all, a mis-nomer. There is no way of knowing, with certainty, that there is ONLY one "Other Film" to begin with. Second, assuming that there is more than one "Other Film", -- those who claim that they saw "it" -- may have, in fact, all seen the same film...or not. Some may have seen another film. Again, there is no way of knowing. However, in general terms, the "Other Film" is not a hoax. It was a TRAINING film." ~ GB In his own words! From Greg's mouth to your ears Lamson: http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com/2011/04/gov-ventura-greg-burnham.html A Quote Of the five persons I know who have viewed the other film, ALL: 1. Had not seen the Zapruder film at the time they saw the OTHER film 2. Had no reason to know that they were not looking at the Z film. 3. Only years later when seeing the extant film did they realize IT was different. 4. Saw the limousine turn the corner. 5. Saw the limousine come to a stop before the head shot. All of the people saw the film at different times and places. None of them was aware of the others, but described the same film. One of them saw it on two different occasions. One of them saw it on several occasions; it was shown to him by a retired French intelligence agent. He is a respected French journalist. He attempted to buy the film, but the man feared for his life, since he was not supposed to have the copy. All of these people are honest, reputable people. Why suggest they are lying? ~JW More "HEARSAY": Mr. SHANEYFELT. This shows the photograph that was made from the point where Zapruder was standing looking toward the car, and is a point that we have designated as position A because it is in a position that did not appear on the Zapruder film So Mr. Lamson can you prove the Zapruder film is an unedited original? Prove it. Can you show Beverly Oliver's (Babushka Lady) film? How do you know it does not exist? OH YEAH BECAUSE YOU'VE NEVER SEEN IT. Is that not your excuse for everything. We know the babushka lady was filming right? Its in the "Zapruder" film which you claim genuine untouched original so it must exist...right. Did Marilyn Sitzman own a film camera? Prove she didn't. Why don't you post the "reenactment" film Gary Mack thinks Greg saw. Better yet go advertise something and leave research to those with the ability to actually proffer. Nice try but when Greg said he had seen the film it was then not hearsay to me. It was a direct statement. Show me a nuclear warhead with you touching it Craig. You can't. Does that mean nukes are to be only accepted as FAITH? What BS are you trying to pull here? Your so full of it your eyes must be brown. State secrets do exist, Or are you naive enough to assume they don't. Greg is a first hand witness, Rich and William Reymond are first hand witnesses, Milicent is too, etc etc etc GET IT. Just because your sorry butt was making coffee for an ad exec doesn't mean the film doesn't exist. Quite the contrary buddy boy. I suggest you ask them as you will only claim anything I say, even directly quoting, as hearsay. Your whole career is second hand gossip to me since I have never seen you do any work. But hey why let a little thing like eye witness testimony get you all hot and bothered. Prove you are Craig Lamson, prove YOU exist. When your through with that maybe you'll be REAL enough to talk with those whom have seen The Other Film. Lamson's research extraordinaire has produced another PENULTIMATE FAIL Thanks for the fun, Ed PS the extant Zapruder film IS the frankenfilm.

[quote name=Craig Lamson' date='08 January 2012 - 07:14 PM' timestamp='1326046454' No its NOT. All you have is hearsay. You can't produce the film. YOU CAN'T EVEN PRODUCE GENERATIONAL COPIES. You want to see you the original Z film, go to the archives. EPIC FAIL. Thanks for playing. Beyond funny! Oh sure I'm going to the archives for the original? Hahaha How do you as a advertising 'professional' have the CV to even state such? So sorry you don't. Others have viewed the other film independently, their description corroborates each other. PERIOD. What you are saying is that the film that they witnessed had been faked? Things were added to it!?! That is ridiculous Craig. You are the one saying the "Original" could not be faked in such a manner yet the other was by adding more information, extra frames, things that don't exist on the reported 'original'...PLEASE. Things are getting sillier and sillier the longer you post. How did they do this Craig? Were special effects used to make these excised 'frames' appear? Or is it more likely the extant film has been excised to remove frames? Remove frames from the ORIGINAL OTHER FILM. Craig, hearsay is evidence of a statement that was made other than by a witness. Greg Burnham is a WITNESS. Your talking to him, thus it is not hearsay. You have received DIRECT TESTIMONY. Wanna try again spin doctor Lamson? Have you no clue Lamson? Maybe if you listened YOU might learn something in regards to Kennedy's murder and the evidence. Why would you care though, unless this is a print assignment for a publication. CATASTROPHIC FAIL Ed