Kathleen Collins

Clint Muchison has a library named after him in Texas. FWIW

"lib-web-cats

Clint W. Murchison Memorial Library

Henderson County, TX

Address: 121 South Prairieville Street

Athens, TX 75751-2595

United States

County Henderson

Region Northeast Texas

Phone: 903-677-7295

Location:

Connect to: Library Web Site

Library details: Clint W. Murchison Memorial Library is a Public library. This library is the central facility for the library system that serves Henderson County, TX. The collection of the library contains 57167 volumes. The library circulates 126520 items per year. The library serves a population of 38551 residents . The director of the library is Terry Warren.

Technology: The library uses the Athena library automation system implemented in 1999 provided by the company named Sagebrush Technologies, Inc.. This library is responsible for the procurement and maintenance of the library automation system.

Permalink: http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-displ...ary.pl?RC=24287

(Use this link to refer back to this listing.)"

Kathy

Sorry Kathy, my mistake. I thought I'd posted the link directly to the page, I didn't realise, I left part of the URL off. Here is the correct link:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=143

Thanks, Francesca. So far it seems like a coincidence. But I'd like to learn more about other employees or big shots involved with that company, Centex.

Kathy

In regards to the Centex Corporation, I found this rather interesting document:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=56993

I wonder who this 'Swanson' was?

Could this be him?

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=28

(Last two paragraphs then continues over the page)

Through my perusal, I did not find the Centex Corp. Could you tell me what page it's on -- it's a rather large file. Donald O. Norton used to live at Art Swanson's address supposedly. This Swanson had a left-wing radio show. I never heard of the other Swanson mentioned.

Kathy

[quote name='Myra Bronstein' post='106921' date='Jun 22 2007, 05:54 PM'

by chance on www.WBAI.org today on Bob Fass' show he had a friend of Ochs telling that it was NOT a strangulation - but a chop to the vocal cord area of his neck and that Phil considered it an attack on his means of making a living.

Thank you, Peter, for letting people know there is a method these spies will use -- karate chop. You said Phil Ochs felt he was hit by that to the throat so he wouldn't be able to sing anymore. I heard this rumor years ago and never looked into it: Bob Dylan's career slid after a motorcycle accident in which his throat was injured. After that, his singing got real weird.

Kathy

Kathy,

I have never seen Harvey and Lee offered on Ebay(FWIW), and I shop there all the time. The only books I have seen offered there with regard to Armstrong's theory are DENIAL 1&2.

I don't think Andy at Last Hurrah has it either.(If he did, it would be few and far between.) All he had when I asked him were the DENIAL books.

Best bet is the DellaRosas.

I believe they are the only ones who have it available.

Kathy Becket

************

Kathy: FYI........

The only distributor of Harvey & Lee, is Shelby DellaRosa, exclusively.....it comes with a CD...

The book has nothing to do with the JFKresearch Forum nor it's administration.....

Andy at Last Hurrah does not carry the book.....

B.........

Bernice, I just learned that. I have the original manuscript, as I offered to proofread it. I meant well. And although you wear a halo around you but are always cutting into me, you don't know anything that transpired between me and him. And when you send him posts I made on this Forum, I believe that's illegal on this Forum. You're not supposed to take a post from here and post it on another Forum or send it to another Admin. I will complain to one of the moderators. You can be sure of that.

Kathy

**************

Excuse me Kathy:

That information that I have posted, about the H & L book, has been well known for years by members on the JFKresearch F, it is far from unknown..

If that is what you call, giving the correct info out on this board about said book, cutting into you.......so be it in your imagination..

I have no idea, about your insinuations, nor what transpired, and that is the way I choose to keep it..

B.......

I heard from the man whose name I'm not supposed to mention here. He had the entire post I made about Harvey and Lee and was very angry. And basically, I'm accusing you of meddling into my business and giving him that post. You're one of his spies. Or should I say Chief Informant?

Kathy

Kathy,

I have never seen Harvey and Lee offered on Ebay(FWIW), and I shop there all the time. The only books I have seen offered there with regard to Armstrong's theory are DENIAL 1&2.

I don't think Andy at Last Hurrah has it either.(If he did, it would be few and far between.) All he had when I asked him were the DENIAL books.

Best bet is the DellaRosas.

I believe they are the only ones who have it available.

Kathy Becket

************

Kathy: FYI........

The only distributor of Harvey & Lee, is Shelby DellaRosa, exclusively.....it comes with a CD...

The book has nothing to do with the JFKresearch Forum nor it's administration.....

Andy at Last Hurrah does not carry the book.....

B.........

Bernice, I just learned that. I have the original manuscript, as I offered to proofread it. I meant well. And although you wear a halo around you but are always cutting into me, you don't know anything that transpired between me and him. And when you send him posts I made on this Forum, I believe that's illegal on this Forum. You're not supposed to take a post from here and post it on another Forum or send it to another Admin. I will complain to one of the moderators. You can be sure of that.

Kathy

I have been looking for this book for some time now.Does anyone know where I can pick up a copy?

Thanks,H.Brammer

Oh, you bet!!!

It is available here.:

http://www.jfkresearch.com/armstrong/

Kathy Beckett

I have tried to send an email to them ,but no response so far.

I was stopped when I tried to advertise the book on this Forum. I am not even supposed to say the Admin's name on this Forum. I don't know what his problem is. He goes to my blog everyday, but will not accept an email from me. The only thing I can advise is try to find it on eBay or The Last Hurrah Bookstore online -- which focuses on the Kennedy Assassination. I would get one before the price becomes too expensive. There's a DVD that comes with it. It's nicely packaged. It's slow reading but is a wealth of info. And leaves you with a cliff hanger: What happened to Lee Oswald? A question that will drive me nuts for the rest of my life.

Kathy Collins

Duplicate

Here's What Brad Ayers has to say about RFK at JM/WAVE:

The Zenith Secret – A CIA Insider Exposes the Secret War Against Cuba and the Plot that Killed the Kennedy Brothers, by Bradley E. Ayers (Vox Pop/Drench Kiss Media Corportation, 1022 Corelyou Road, Brooklyn, NY 11218. [www.voxpopnet.net]

.........

Chilling, especially when you think how it all went wrong. The expression on RFK's face, when LBJ gave his first state of the union address. The man he hated the most was now President, giving a speech on his brother, about whose death Robert had complicity, albeit unknowingly, at the time.

With this information out in recent books, I wonder if the Kennedy family will ever admit to a plan overseen by Robert Kennedy to kill Castro that backfired.

Kathy

Kathy, the plans "overseen by Robert Kennedy," that we know about so far - and approved by his Special Group Augmented - include economic sabatog, parachute commandos, oil rig demolitions, - where's the "plot to kill Castro that backfired."

While I am no fan of RFK and don't consider him a candidate for sainthood, I don't see him ordering a hit team to Cuba to kill Castro.

Roselli talks about it to lawyer Ed Morgan and Jack Anderson, Fitzgerald claimes it in convincing Cubans to try to kill Castro, Helms repeats it to Kiss Kiss, and the National Security Archives repeats it as fact, but there doesn't seem to be a basis in fact for RFK's intention and orders to anyone to kill Castro.

Of course you get an entirely different picture of reality if you just read Kissinger, Lansdale, Ramsey Clark, Gus Russo and Lamar Waldron, all Kennedy haters who are trying to pin the tail on the donkey, while blindfolded.

BK

And after scanning 700 + pages without finding one that mentions RFK's operations to kill Castro, it appears that Dr. Kiss was repeating the CIA director's hearsay about RFK and Castro plots in order to ensure that the records remained sealed.

This was the same tactic used to keep the MLK records of the HSCA and DOD After Action Reports sealed, - because they contained reports of King's hanky panky with white women.

If anyone reading these recently released pages of the Family Jewels actually comes across a reference to RFK and Castro assassination plots, please share.

BK

Then what was your point in posting those excerpts about Bobby Kennedy if he had nothing to do with assassinating Castro?

Kathy

Kathy,

Did you read the excerpts?

Bradley Ayers doesn't say anything about Bobby and killing Castro, that's Roselli talking.

Bradley Ayers says that RFK approved the economic sabatoge operations, the paratroop operations, etc., nothing about killing Castro.

Kissinger says Helms said the Family Jewels has RFK trying to kill Castro, but now we're reading the Family Jewels and there's nothing there about RFK killing Castro.

There's RFK saying stuff like, "If you go out and hire the mafia to kill Castro in exchange for wiretapping some girlfriend Vegas bedroom, I hope you'll tell the Attorney General about it," but nothing about RFK ordering maritime missions to Cuba to kill Castro, like Kiss said there was, and Helms and Lansdale and Ramsey Clark said there was. "Blood will flow in the streets." BS.

Where's the smoking gun documnents on this? They don't exist, because if they did we'd have them by now. Just like EHH having to fake JFK and Diem coup docs. If they existed, he wouldn't have had to fake them.

They tease us for years, float a balloon days before the release of the Family Jewels, and then when they're released - nothing there. Where's the beef?

The Kennedys must be censoring it.

BK

Sorry, Bill. I did miss what you said in your post. Maybe I could use a rest. Tomorrow I'll rent a charter boat from Donald O. Norton...

Kathy

There was a small shed behind these horizontal slats in 11/63

but the re-enactment captured the light streaming through this

structure in the ambush zone..........sniper? radio? observer? film?

Hey Shanet!

I think you mean the opposite side. The shed is still there today.

http://us.share.geocities.com/quaneeri4/Dealey_Plaza2.jpg

Robin's site...

- lee

Could a shooter have stood behind the Pergola and stuck his rifle through the slats and shot President Kennedy that way and make a quick escape? Or do you think he was in the pergola?

Kathy

Also, this may be of some information...both Bell Aircraft and LTV (Chance Vaught at the time) had operations at Pt. Mugu, about 10 miles from Oxnard. My Dad worked for both companies.

This is interesting. And I'm glad you and James responded to this. I was thinking of Camarillo Ranch and I just thought of MK/ULTRA and the Manson family at Spahn Ranch. Probably no connection. Have you heard of one? And who is Osbourne?

Kathy

***********************************************************8

Spahn Ranch is nestled between the western side of Box Canyon and the Santa Susanna Pass Road, which is at the Ventura/Los Angeles County line, bordered by Simi Valley on the west and the city of Chatsworth to the east. Box canyon was a favorite film location for the old Hopalong Cassidy movies and serials. The rock formations are spectacular.

Rocket Dyne and Hughes had, and probably still have, a lot of acreage out in that area, cordoned off by high chain linked fences, topped with barbed wire on some of the more remote sections of the property, surveillance cameras, and many DANGER NO TRESPASSING signs strategically placed throughout, from what I can remember.

I also lived in Box Canyon in the late 1970's, before moving to T.O. in the early 1980's.

What must they be doing out there? Another "Area 51"? MK/ULTRA stuff?

FWIW. Although Area 51 is not located where we've been talking about, the reason you can see it from Google Earth is because nobody is there anymore. They moved to another section of the desert. I know a woman and her husband who drove around out there lost and they could see air vents in the mountains. But no one came after them. If you look it up on Google Earth, you'll see there are a lot of Air Force Bases around there. Also, from what I've read, the old Area 51 is radioactive. So much for spooks.

Kathy

Kathy, there is nothing negative about the ranch itself. It's more about the extended family of people who controlled its interests back in the early 1960's.

James

I have found some info on it and have started a new thread called Camarillo Ranch.

Kathy

This is a new thread from the Irv Kupcinet thread, which started to focus on Camarillo Ranch, CA. It is 20 minutes away from the heart of Oxnard, going East. Oxnard came up as a woman there predicted to phone operators and their manager that Kennedy was going to be killed. This woman, btw, was not Karyn Kupcinet.

http://www.centex.com/directors.htm

Basically, due to James Richards and Norman George, I started my "uncanny" search over the Internet and found something. The Camarillo Ranch was owned by Centex Corp, who in turn donated it to the community of Camarillo. Camarillo was incorporated as a town in 1964. The Ranch now serves as a place to hold weddings, with its restored, big Victorian house. It came into my mind that John Armstrong was a builder, and would rather do that than finish his research on Donald O. Norton.

So I looked up Centex. Centex Corp is rated as the best builders by Fortune Mag. Here's the history of Centex ownership:

"The 4.5-acre Camarillo Ranch was given to the City of Camarillo by the Centex Corporation in 1997. Centex had acquired the property from a member of the Camarillo Family. Along with the Ranch, the City also received the barn and stable on the adjacent property. In 1999, the City, working with Centex, moved the massive red barn and stable to their current locations on the Ranch."

I wanted to see the Board of Directors and got a shock:

Among a dozen or so people, this name jumped out at me. Clint W. Murchison, III - Private Real Estate Development and Other Investments. His bio reads:

"Mr. Murchison is a regional trustee of the Boys and Girls Clubs of America.

"Mr. Murchison was grandfathered and exempted from the 20-year term limit adopted in 2004, in light of his significant tenure as a director.

"Because Centex is headquartered in Dallas, we have put a special emphasis on supporting nonprofit organizations in the Dallas/Fort Worth area that make our community a better place to live and work. Centex Corporation will invest about $1 million in the Dallas/Fort Worth community this year through our strategic community investment program. We will support about 20 area nonprofits through both funds and volunteer activities."

Well, there's some kind of connection. Can anyone else add more?

Kathy

I happen to think this is a very creative thread, and would not know why someone wouldn't see that.

This is a PARODY thread. You see people(guest hosts) on SNL who are being parodied, and they usually are right in the middle of it. laughing and playing right along.Personally, I always thought they were better people for doing so. It certainly makes the audience love them more, doesn't it?

MBNWTE may not be right for you, but I look forward to reading it everyday. I am amazed at the creativity of these people, and a couple of them, because of their ability to laugh at each other AND themselves, have endeared themselves to me. What a wonderful quality for a human being to have!!!!

No one is here to hurt anyone. It is open, so everyone can participate. The only drawback is that you go up head to head with highly creative minds such as Stephan Turner, Dave Greer, and the ever wordy Mr.John"Run That By Me Again " Dolva. ( Cameos with D.W.Dunn and Evan Burton.)

I am laughing at the sheer brilliance of it all.

(Not to mention the fact that here, they think I am a disinformation agent. This is the only place in the world where I could be called that. (I love it. I put it in my signature.))

Kathy

Kathy, you can try your hardest to lull me into a false sense of security with your schmoozling ways, but we both know you're lower than a snake's belly.

I've got my eye on you.

I hope you're directing that to Kathy Beckett and not Kathy Collins. You quoted Kathy Beckett. She's called a disinfomationalist. I was called an "agent provocateur."

Kathy Collins

Here's What Brad Ayers has to say about RFK at JM/WAVE:

The Zenith Secret – A CIA Insider Exposes the Secret War Against Cuba and the Plot that Killed the Kennedy Brothers, by Bradley E. Ayers (Vox Pop/Drench Kiss Media Corportation, 1022 Corelyou Road, Brooklyn, NY 11218. [www.voxpopnet.net]

.........

Chilling, especially when you think how it all went wrong. The expression on RFK's face, when LBJ gave his first state of the union address. The man he hated the most was now President, giving a speech on his brother, about whose death Robert had complicity, albeit unknowingly, at the time.

With this information out in recent books, I wonder if the Kennedy family will ever admit to a plan overseen by Robert Kennedy to kill Castro that backfired.

Kathy

Kathy, the plans "overseen by Robert Kennedy," that we know about so far - and approved by his Special Group Augmented - include economic sabatog, parachute commandos, oil rig demolitions, - where's the "plot to kill Castro that backfired."

While I am no fan of RFK and don't consider him a candidate for sainthood, I don't see him ordering a hit team to Cuba to kill Castro.

Roselli talks about it to lawyer Ed Morgan and Jack Anderson, Fitzgerald claimes it in convincing Cubans to try to kill Castro, Helms repeats it to Kiss Kiss, and the National Security Archives repeats it as fact, but there doesn't seem to be a basis in fact for RFK's intention and orders to anyone to kill Castro.

Of course you get an entirely different picture of reality if you just read Kissinger, Lansdale, Ramsey Clark, Gus Russo and Lamar Waldron, all Kennedy haters who are trying to pin the tail on the donkey, while blindfolded.

BK

And after scanning 700 + pages without finding one that mentions RFK's operations to kill Castro, it appears that Dr. Kiss was repeating the CIA director's hearsay about RFK and Castro plots in order to ensure that the records remained sealed.

This was the same tactic used to keep the MLK records of the HSCA and DOD After Action Reports sealed, - because they contained reports of King's hanky panky with white women.

If anyone reading these recently released pages of the Family Jewels actually comes across a reference to RFK and Castro assassination plots, please share.

BK

Then what was your point in posting those excerpts about Bobby Kennedy if he had nothing to do with assassinating Castro?

Kathy

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0509c.asp

The Bush Administration lied when it sent the joint chiefs of staff to board planes with no extra security to show how safe it was to fly. This, of course, was for the airline industry:

"In the wake of the hijacking and crashing of four airliners and the subsequent shutdown of the nation’s airports on 9/11, many Americans were hesitant to return to fly the friendly skies. Speaking on September 27, 2001, at Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport, President Bush decried the “atmosphere of fear” created by the terrorist attack. He declared that “one of the great goals of this nation’s war is to restore public confidence in the airline industry, to tell the traveling public, get onboard.” He proudly announced, “Tomorrow, nine Cabinet members will board U.S. airlines to fly around the country to do their jobs.” The secretaries’ courage aimed to rally all Americans and prove that there was no need for Americans to “live in fear,” Bush said.

Only five Cabinet secretaries made it to the airport and up and away the next day. Labor Secretary Elaine Chao flew to Louisville, Kentucky, on the morning of September 28. She declared,

'I am flying today to encourage all Americans to get back to work, to visit family, to resume our way of life. We need to all do our part in getting America back to work, and defeating terrorism. Each person who steps onto a plane is sending a message to the world that we will not live in fear.'

Arriving in Louisville, she told reporters that there was no additional security on her flight that morning.

Commerce Secretary Don Evans bragged that morning on CBS’s Early Show,

'I’m also traveling commercial, as you know, sending another signal to Americans all across this country that it’s safe to fly.'

Housing and Urban Development Secretary Mel Martinez arrived at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport and announced,

'I’m traveling without bodyguards, just like anyone else would travel.... America is back; flying is safe.'

A few days later, news leaked out that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) had placed armed undercover federal air marshals on each of the Cabinet secretaries’ flights. FAA security director Michael Canavan, a former army lieutenant general, was fired after he balked at placing marshals on the politicians’ flights, since he believed other flights that day were at higher risk of being hijacked. (He was overruled.)

The heroic Cabinet secretaries’ hoax received little or no mention in the vast majority of the American media. There were too many other confidence-building news events to cover in those exciting times. Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta justified the ruse:

'In the case of the Cabinet members flying on commercial airlines, those flights had been previously announced by the president and were highly publicized, potentially raising the threat for every passenger on each of those flights.... Clearly, if air marshals were added to those flights this action would have been taken to ensure the safety of all of the passengers.'

Kathy

And who is Osbourne?

Wasn't there a preacher of some sort named Osborne that sat next to Ozzie on his bus trip to Mexico? A dude of rather neferious character?

I had read in one of the RFK books that Sirhan was supposedly acquainted with a preacher from Oxnard. Just thought the connection w/Sirhan and the JFK phone call from Oxnard were interesting.

I will look up the bus ride Lee Oswald (or Donald O. Norton or Ralph Geb) took to Mexico in Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong. In Google Maps I discovered that it takes 20 minutes from the heart of Oxnard to Camarillo Ranch in Camarillo, CA 93012. But I am having trouble finding anything negative about it. It's a place couples reserve for weddings.

Kathy

This thread reminds me of the Amazing Randi forum. He has this huge forum dedicated to debunking everything. I went on it for a few days. I would say what I believed and they would put down any researcher or book/film I used to back up my opinion, etc. They were especially hard on Alex Jones and Jim Fetzer. They told me to get off the forum, that I was embarrassing myself. And if I believed that 9/11 was orchestrated by this govt, that was the world I chose to live in. They felt sorry for me. I won the appelatiion of "Einstein." It was a very big forum, but all they'd do is, what you people are doing, making fun of members' research and beliefs. So, in a way, the Randis of this world are dependent on us. Or they'd have no Forum. Meanwhile, we're dependent on research, or we'd have no Forum. So I suggest if you think someone's beliefs and expertise is in doubt on this Forum and so funny, why don't you join the Amazing Randi's Forum? They're waiting for you with baited breath.

Kathleen Collins

I was home in Oxnard on leave on 11/22/63. I remember I was going with a strict Catholic girl and it really screwed up my plans for a big weekend.

Having lived in Oxnard, Ventura County from 1952, til I joined the service in '63, I never really heard of a "Camarillo Ranch." The town of Camarillo, about 5 miles from Oxnard, was probably located on the old Spanish Granted Camarillo ranch...JMO.

I'd also heard that Sirhan had been involved with a preacher from Oxnard prior to the RFK killing. Supposedly the preacher had a church on J Street in Oxnard. I never could figure out what church that might have been. I read about it in one of the books on RFK, and thought it was interesting as Osborne was also supposedly a preacher.

Also, this may be of some information...both Bell Aircraft and LTV (Chance Vaught at the time) had operations at Pt. Mugu, about 10 miles from Oxnard. My Dad worked for both companies.

This is interesting. And I'm glad you and James responded to this. I was thinking of Camarillo Ranch and I just thought of MK/ULTRA and the Manson family at Spahn Ranch. Probably no connection. Have you heard of one? And who is Osbourne?

Kathy

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Camarillo Ranch in the Oxnard area?

Also, if I remember correctly, a man by the name of Ray Sheehan was the manager of the telephone company at the time and gave a statement to the FBI. I wonder if he is still alive.

James

I have to look up Camarillo Ranch. It's near Ventura. Does your question have anything to do with the phone call?

I don't think Ray Sheehan is still alive. I don't think he had any more to tell.

Kathy

Kathy,

I think the Camarillo Ranch had some loose connections to what happened in Dallas.

That aside, it might be worth noting that in 1965, the Great Lakes Carbon Co. purchased the ranch. This company was owned by George, Rushton and James Skakel - Robert Kennedy's brothers-in-law.

A year later George Skakel was killed in a plane crash. Also killed were Dean Markham, friend of RFK and who held several federal appointments, and Louis Werner who was the director of the St. Louis regional office of the CIA.

Earl Ranft, trucking firm president and Donald Adams of Mountain Home Air Force base were also killed.

FWIW.

James

Wow, this is so intriguing. I'm going to look more into the Camarillo Ranch. I noticed last night how many hits it had on Google and read something of its history. About the Skakel Bros, I read in a book on Bobby Kennedy -- and of course I can't remember which one -- that Bobby's male in-laws hated his guts because he would put on this macho exterior. Very competitive. Thank you for this new lead.

Kathy

Without sounding too paranoid, I think our government is at work flying planes via remote control. I saw a strange UFO which I felt was flying a small plane by remote control. I am not given to hallucinations. Sleepwalking, yes. Hallucinating, no.

The account of this UFO and small plane is on the blog:

thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com Wed., July 26, 2006

I didn't think it came from outer space. I believe that in "Area 51," which I understand is deserted now, having moved somewhere else in the desert, they crafted this technology. And it does seem paranormal, especially how the UFO faded from my view. But I say it is our govt and in 9/11 this technology was deployed.

Kathy

Here's What Brad Ayers has to say about RFK at JM/WAVE:

The Zenith Secret – A CIA Insider Exposes the Secret War Against Cuba and the Plot that Killed the Kennedy Brothers, by Bradley E. Ayers (Vox Pop/Drench Kiss Media Corportation, 1022 Corelyou Road, Brooklyn, NY 11218. [www.voxpopnet.net]

……At a social gathering at Key Biscayne, “After chatting for a few minutes, Colonel Bond….introduced me to some of the guests. I shook hands with Mr. Harvey and Mr. O’Connell. Both addressed me by my first name. There were several people I recognized from Zenith….I met Mr. Hunt, one of the few present there who looked the part of the classic intellectual espionage type. With Hunt was a Cuban introduced as Mr. Artime. I spotted Mr. Fitzgerald and he acknowledged me with a nod of his head. Colonel Bond told me it was Richard Helms, head of CIA covert operations, standing next to him. Relaxing from the Manhattans, I laughed, realizing that most of the people looked gentle and conservative. Yet when they pulled a string, men lived or died. These men around me were guiding our national policy toward Cuba.”

“Suddenly there was a stir of activity near the courtyard door. The reception line was breaking up. Apparently the VIPs, whoever they were, were leaving. As they passed through the living room, they talked amiably with some of the guests. One man, his back to me, caught my eye. He was younger than the rest, and his full head of hair was conspicuously longer, reaching his collar. He was slim, with a wiry, catlike stance. He wore a sports coat and loose, baggy slacks. His hands were thrust into his pockets and his shoulders slumped forward, casual, almost sloppy. There was something about him I remembered from somewhere….It was Robert Kennedy, the president’s brother, the attorney general! I wedged my way even closer, and as he began to walk toward the front door, I thrust out my hand, Robert Kennedy shook it, smiling warmly.”

“Good to see you.”

“It wasn’t every day that one met the attorney general of the United States….I believed that President Kennedy’s promise to the Bay of Pigs survivors was more than just an effort to pacify the exiles. There was something special going on. I was thrilled to have some small part of it…..”

“My good friend Ed Roderick….was coming for dinner….Rod had been drinking before he got to the house that night. In fact, he confided, he and the recently arrived Colonel Rosselli were working on a plan to ambush Fidel Castro and had been on a weekend binge together. They’d become close friends as they spent time together; their drinking friendship was a natural extension of their on-duty relationship.”

“…He told me Rosselli had high level Mafia and Havana connections….The last American attempts to penetrate with larger craft such as the Rex and Leda had ended in disaster….In the future, Rod said, operations hoped to rely on smaller, faster, lightly armed boats that could make it all the way across the Florida Straights…Several new V-20s had been developed with a fuel capacity sufficient to assure at least a one way crossing of the straights….”

p. 86:

“…We were going to a meeting place in the Everglades….We pulled into a truck stop at the junction of Tamiami Trail and Hightway 27, and another man – a Cuban who I had never seen before – checked the license of the car and climbed in. No one spoke as we drove down the long, slightly traveled highway and eventually turned onto a dirt road bordered by canal. After about a mile, the driver pulled over. An airboat was waiting in the canal, and in moments we were noisily skimming across the saw grass as dusk settled over the glades…..After nearly 30 minutes of travel across open swampland and deep canals, we turned under some overhanging trees and pulled up to a small dock behind another airboat. A sign on the rotting timbers read ‘Waloos Glades Hunting Camp – No Tresspassing.’ It was nearly dark, but I could see two small Quonsets with lights burning in the windows. Some men were standing around a campfire in the middle of the clearing, and in its flickering light I could see two helicopter parked in the shadows. One was a military Bell H-13 with the identification numbers taped over, and the other was a civilian chopper with the name West Palm Beach air service on the tail rotor boom.”

“We walked to the fire and a young man handed us cups of coffee. I had never seen the men before. Soon the door to one of the Quonsets swung open and four men emerged. As they moved into the circle of firelight I recognized Gordon Campbell. I had seen him only a few times since my brief meeting with him, but had been impressed with his polished, slightly flamboyant executive manner. I caught my breath at the appearance of the second man. It was the attorney general, Robert Kennedy.”

“The four men talked in low voices for a few minutes, and then the attorney general came over and shook hands with each of us, wishing us good luck and God’s speed on our mission.”

“Hell, I didn’t even know what my mission was. His white teeth flashed and sparkled, and I felt a strange sense of strength and resolve when he grasped my hand. Then he and one of the Cubans went to the civilian helicopter, an din minutes it took off. Now I understood the need for extra secrecy. If the president felt strongly enough to send his brother, something very big was being planned.”

“When the helicopter was gone, the deputy chief of station came over….he said, ‘The reason we’ve got you here and the reason for all the secrecy is that we just got the green light from upstairs to go ahead on some missions we’ve been planning for some time.’”

“We entered the Quonset….Campbell closed the door behind us and turned to face me. ‘We’re very pleased with the way you’ve handled the training setup for the station so far, and we’ve made that known to your people at the Pentagon. We know it hasn’t been easy for you and your family….You’ll be happy to know that the Special Group has finally given us permission to use two-man submarines to strike Castro’s ships in the harbors. Some of your UDT people will be involved in that. And next week Rip’s boys are going to Elgin for parachute training, so an airborne commando raid may not be far off. But right now we’ve got the go-ahead to hit one of the major oil refineries from on the island. All we’ve got to do is get a commando force in shape to do the job.”

Chilling, especially when you think how it all went wrong. The expression on RFK's face, when LBJ gave his first state of the union address. The man he hated the most was now President, giving a speech on his brother, about whose death Robert had complicity, albeit unknowingly, at the time.

With this information out in recent books, I wonder if the Kennedy family will ever admit to a plan overseen by Robert Kennedy to kill Castro that backfired.

Kathy

From the thread on CIA family jewels

So now we have Henry Kiss Kissinger, Dick Helms, Ed Lansdale and LBJ's AG Ramsey Clark all saying, in three part harmony, that RFK was behind a Castro assassination operation.

Over a decade ago, when Tom Waldman of Ultimate Sac, wanted to give a talk to COPA, John Judge said that the next layer of the cover story was that RFK approved the Castro hit that killed JFK in the blowback.

Judge noted that the designed cover story had many levels, beginning with Castro responsible (PDS Phase One), replaced by Lone-nut (P2), and the multitude of conspiracy (CIA, Mafia, KGB), eventually getting to the RFK scenario.

Judge said then that "when it gets to the point that they have to acknowledge a political conspiracy, then they're going to say that Bobby ordered Castro killed and they were sons of bitches anyway, and deserved to die."

BK

I have been thinking along these lines too of late. I believe that in the 'next phase' RFK is going to take the rap for training the anti-Castro Cubans who eventually turned and killed JFK. Some CIA handlers (Morales perhaps, among others) may be hung out to dry as 'rogue' CIA men who were involved. This way the CIA admits conspiracy albeit not one which as an organisation they were aware of - with the added get out clause that these men were originally working for the attorney general at the time.

LBJ will then be seen to have ordered the coverup to avoid nuclear war as the inevitable outcome of any retribution by the US against Cuba. Again the CIA/FBI etc can say that, whilst disagreeing fundamentally with performing a coverup, they were acting on orders from the President and ultimately performing a worthy service of preventing war.

This way some salient facts about the conspiracies of the assassination and coverup can become public domain whilst limiting the actions of intelligence services (in fact making these intelligence services seem like the good guys). It also dovetails with EHH's 'deathbed confession'. I think David Talbot's book also lends a certain credence to this story.

I think the two of you, Gary and BK, have described exactly what happened in the Assassination. Two questions:

1. Did Bobby Kennedy have a small enclave of Cuban Exiles who still liked the President and who were going to kill Castro, possibly without the President's knowledge, on Dec 1? If I remember correctly, this was the theory Joan Mellen described in A Farewell to Justice?

2. If there was going to be a "triangle of fire" to kill Castro, how were the Exiles going to get into Cuba to pull this off? Instead they turned the method around 180 degrees and trained it on Kennedy, failing twice, but ultimately achieving one of the most momentous unsolved murders in history.

Kathy

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the Camarillo Ranch in the Oxnard area?

Also, if I remember correctly, a man by the name of Ray Sheehan was the manager of the telephone company at the time and gave a statement to the FBI. I wonder if he is still alive.

James

I have to look up Camarillo Ranch. It's near Ventura. Does your question have anything to do with the phone call?

I don't think Ray Sheehan is still alive. I don't think he had any more to tell.

Kathy

This is known as the Oxnard Call

I was raised in Oxnard. Was there at the time. It wasn't me. Now we've narrowed that down some.

I don't know how one would go about finding the identity of that woman, but I believe it happened. Another woman died in a similar manner as Karyn. Her name was Doris Helmts from San Mateo, which is quite a distance from Oxnard. But I don't have her obit. And I don't know what she died of. She was 35 years old, found on her couch, the small apartment a mess, a radio playing softly, apparently nothing taken and dead for about 3 days. That's all I know about her. I know someone in Vienna -- believe it or not -- who is trying to find out more about the case. It might have beenn natural causes, but you never know. She was discovered the same time Karyn was. And both their stories were in parallel columns on the same page of San Mateo Times, Dec 2, 1963.

Kathy