Kathleen Collins

I don't know how one would go about finding the identity of that woman, but I believe it happened. Another woman died in a similar manner as Karyn. Her name was Doris Helmts from San Mateo, which is quite a distance from Oxnard. But I don't have her obit. And I don't know what she died of. She was 35 years old, found on her couch, the small apartment a mess, a radio playing softly, apparently nothing taken and dead for about 3 days. That's all I know about her. I know someone in Vienna -- believe it or not -- who is trying to find out more about the case. It might have beenn natural causes, but you never know. She was discovered the same time Karyn was. And both their stories were in parallel columns on the same page of San Mateo Times, Dec 2, 1963. Kathy

The story continues that they were able to trace the call and it came from a law practice in Oxnard. So there's the vision of a delirious woman, locked in an office, using the phone. The story continues further that Bobby Kennedy went to the phone company in Oxnard on June 5, 1968 to get more info on this woman. I don't believe it. Bobby knew it was a conspiracy. The woman on the phone predicting the Assassination of his brother was obviously close to one of the conspirators. And I wouldn't be surprised if she died shortly after her misidentified phone call. Do you remember where you were or what you were doing on Nov. 22, 1963? Do you remember hearing the story? Kathy

Peter, I agree with you. Years back, when I first joined another Forum, I called Lee Harvey Oswald a "punk." Because I figured, even if he didn't kill Kennedy, he was up to something. They were insulted! I could never live it down. At least here you can voice your own opinion. Back to Oswald, if you know the Presidential motorcade is passing the building where you're working, do you not go to work that day? Or was he given some role to play -- and didn't realize they were making him the patsy? I've read Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong and I believe there were 2 men using the same identity. Only, I don't think Harvey knew about Lee. Lee, who may have been Harvey's cousin, helped set Harvey up. So, of course I wonder -- whatever happened to Lee? Kathy ********************************************************* "Years back, when I first joined another Forum, I called Lee Harvey Oswald a "punk." Because I figured, even if he didn't kill Kennedy, he was up to something. They were insulted! I could never live it down. At least here you can voice your own opinion." Being a double agent, an FBI asset, or assigned to covert operations, does not necessarily relegate one to the status of a "punk." "Lee, who may have been Harvey's cousin, helped set Harvey up. So, of course I wonder -- whatever happened to Lee?" But, I thought you had already figured that one out, Kath. Donald Norton aka Ralph Geb, right? About Lee, no I haven't figured it out in that I don't have confirmation. But yes, I think the guy in the yearbook picture was "Ralph Geb." And Donald O. Norton was one of the two red-headed Geb/Norton brothers. Supposedly, "Lee" Oswald. Yet none of them look like Oswald ! I know John Armstrong searched the country for Lee Oswald or Donald O. Norton. There must be some reason, but he won't reveal it. To read more about this go to thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com - beginning in Feb 2006. About the word "punk." I felt, in the past, that Oswald was up to something that day, whether he shot at the President or not. "Nice" people do not make up the CIA, FBI, NSA, et al. The Cuban Exiles weren't nice. My picture of a punk would be Vic Morrow in The Blackboard Jungle. It's attitude more than anything else. Kathy

Peter, I agree with you. Years back, when I first joined another Forum, I called Lee Harvey Oswald a "punk." Because I figured, even if he didn't kill Kennedy, he was up to something. They were insulted! I could never live it down. At least here you can voice your own opinion. Back to Oswald, if you know the Presidential motorcade is passing the building where you're working, do you not go to work that day? Or was he given some role to play -- and didn't realize they were making him the patsy? I've read Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong and I believe there were 2 men using the same identity. Only, I don't think Harvey knew about Lee. Lee, who may have been Harvey's cousin, helped set Harvey up. So, of course I wonder -- whatever happened to Lee? Kathy

On this Forum, John Simkins has gone to the trouble of writing biographies of pertinent people in the Assassination. But one paragraph in Irv Kupcinet's bio must be changed, as it's not true! Irv Kupcinet knew Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones Irv kept in contact with Ruby... Irv never kept in contact with Ruby. When Ruby shot Oswald, Irv sprung into action, as Ruby was originally from Chicago. and discovered that he was involved in a plot to assassinate President John F. Kennedy. This is absolutely false. Irv knew nothing about the Assassination and called Paul Dorfman, connected with the mob, to ask about Ruby. (Dorman called him "Sparky.") Jones argues that Irv passed this information on to his daughter Karyn. Why in the name of God would he do that? In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones reports that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23... She was 22. was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed." Not Karyn. I believe this happened, as the FBI or phone company gave the story to the newspapers on the 23rd. But it was not Karyn Kupcinet. It was some other unfortunate woman. This is known as the Oxnard Call. Karyn went to Palm Springs for the weekend. The only thing she was upset about was breaking up with her boyfriend. Oxnard is 50 miles from her West Hollywood apartment. It would take her an hour to get there and an hour back. She didn't drive. Kathy

Does a photo or film exist that shows smoke from that or another area? I've never seen it. Would it be on the Nix film? Kathy

Both Robert Kennedy and Malcolm X were killed by the most reliable method of all, according to Stiff’s typology, the direct positive. I believe JFK was, too. It would be of interest to know a) how the US Secret Service classified assassination attempts, and how it trained to counter them; and c) whether CIA and US Special Forces worked with a similar typology. Are you saying President Kennedy was killed by the Secret Service -- Direct-Positive? I certainly blame the Secret Service for deliberately putting him in harm's way. But I don't think they were shooting at him. And what reasons would the Secret Service have to want to bump off the President? I see his Assassination as a "Direct- Non Positive," to use those terms. Kathy

They'll probably be released and heavily blacked out for national security reasons. Kathy

It's my opinion, but I put the blame of the Assassination right square on the Secret Service, who did nothing to protect the President on Nov. 22, 1963. And I think Clint Hill is just as responsible. A photo exists where he's on the car behind the limo and it looks to me like he's wearing some sort of early generation bullet vest. Could such a thing be impossible? Kathy

Wow Kathy, You have studied this deeper than I have. Phil's sister Sonny told me that Jerry Rubin was the last of his old friends to see Phil. I did not know that Jerry is gone too. Sorry to hear that. I have always suspected that the same forces took John Lennon away too. . Did you know that a Cuban Exile who survived the Bay of Pigs was on guard duty the night John Lennon was killed? In Cuba he was known as San Jenis. When he was at the Dakota, he went by the name Jose Perdomo. A member of this forum told me Perdomo was kept on to do little CIA jobs. What a strange coincidence. Kathy

I agree. There's something unnatural about the Man in the Doorway. The way he stands and smiles and looks eager. Lovelady must have been in on the Assassination. For one thing, he identified himself in that picture. But it looks more like a head superimposed on a body. The smartest thing Oswald could have done was stand outside and watch the motorcade. Then no one would suspect him. He's in full view of everyone and does not have a gun. He should have stayed there, but he fled to the Texas Theater and the Richard Widmark movie. I'd like to look into Lovelady's background. Kathy

Three "Radicals" have slipped our memories here. Abbie Hoffman, dying from an overdose of phenolbarbital. Jerry Rubin dying while jaywalking. Somewhat of a friend to John Lennon. And then there's Hunter Thompson, supposedly shooting himself in the head. Thompson wrote a book about the Hell's Angels. In his last year, some people believe he witnessed or filmed a human sacrifice in Bohemian Grove, a place where certain politicians more or less turn their soul over to the devil and undergo the burning of their consciences. And about Sal Mineo -- he was gay. That could have played a part. I have never been convinced that the black man whom they blamed, really killed Sal Mineo. Other journalists: Dorothy Kilgallen, dead from mixing sleeping pills and alcohol. Was writing a book about the Assassination conspiracy. Irv Kupcinet -- questioned a mob member about Jack Ruby, as soon as he saw Ruby shoot Oswald. Four days later Irv's daughter was murdered by compression of her left carotid artery, or by a karate chop. Jim Koethe -- also killed by karate chop. He was a reporter and gay and may have known too much about Ruby. Kathy

I'm bumping this.

Here is a photo. I don't know how it will come out and my Desizer doesn't work well. What I tried to post was too big. Anyway, someone, a while back, was interested in the Military Men with Caps at Love Field. This might be another here in Altgen's Man in the Doorway. He's behind the LBJ SS car, as their doors are opening, standing on Houston. I have one attachment here that shows nothing. Sorry. Here's a new photo that I am borrowing from a thread in which Robin Ungar posted. I hope he doesn't mind. On the right side of the picture, you see a man with a military cap on and a long yellow rain slicker. My guess is he's a traffic cop. I thought he was one of the men from Love Field. But this tells me different. Of course, I could be completely off base. Kathy Altgens_Man_in_Doorway_Entire.html

Broadcast from NY in the early '70's was a radio show hosted by Long John Knebel and Candy Jones. It began at midnight and would continue till 5:30 am. They would talk about one topic all night. Every year Knebel did a show on clocks for 5+1/2 hours, as an example. (Awful) One of his frequent guests and friend was Lyle Stuart, who at that time had his publishing outfit in Secaucus, NJ. Unfortunately, I can't remember what they would talk about with him. It more or less might have been a panel show. I don't remember any particular controversy. In the country, Nixon was having his troubles. Maybe they talked about that. But I did apply for a job at the Secaucus offices, and never heard back from them. Maybe I'm lucky, if he was "manipulative." But he seems like an interesting character. Kathy

In other words Groden altered the picture. And then, if he was last to have it, he loses the original film. So we see Jackie's pink pillbox hat but nothing of the Grassy Knoll. Real smart. Kathy Kathy, Without knowing more of the facts - I can see you feeling that way. I believe that it was UPI who had the original Nix film at the time and they had Groden come and work with making a color copy that would make the colors more pleasing to those who would see the film from that point on. Robert did what he was supposed to do. But Robert also wanted to use the original Nix film to make a lightened copy print so to see into the deep shadows on the walkway and it was UPI who refused to allow him to do it. Their position was that he was to do a particular job and nothing more. There was simply nothing Robert could do for he has told me that UPI watched over him the entire time which prevented him from being able to secretly make the lightened copy print. The losing of the camera Nix original falls on UPI - not Groden. Bill Thanks for straightening that out about the colorized Nix film. Too bad he didn't see the knoll well enough or long enough to report anyone suspicious. UPI must be another CIA media asset, if they never left him alone while he was processing it. I saw a movie 30 years ago called "The Two Kennedys." I think it was made in Italy. In that film, if I recall correctly, they show the Nix film in B/W. Might be nice to get a hold of it. Thanks again. Kathy

That's one of the scariest things I've ever heard: Tony Blair trying to shut down the Internet in Great Britain. I hope his co-hort (W) doesn't get any ideas about doing that. I really think the people won't stand for it. I was intrigued by your statement about James Tague. Then I realized you meant he was struck by another bullet aimed at President Kennedy, but missing. That is what you mean, right? Kathy

In other words Groden altered the picture. And then, if he was last to have it, he loses the original film. So we see Jackie's pink pillbox hat but nothing of the Grassy Knoll. Real smart. Kathy

When does a lack of understanding how light and shadows work on these films equate tampering with the image??? Does not the dark colors (or to use your words like "blackening out" of people) show up as well in other areas that are dark like the cops uniform or the suit coats that are out in the sun. Also, if someone will .... please choose the frame of Lovelady from the DCA film where he turns slightly which exposes his open shirt and allows us to see his white T-shirt. Thanks. Bill, there may be artifacts in that photo, as there are objects or bits of people that one can't decipher. You're right that I'm not a photographer. But -- It was a bright day when Kennedy was killed. Yet the Grassy Knoll in the Nix film is blacked out, imo. Another photo exists of a bus stopped in front of the Pergola right after the shooting, and the knoll is so bright. I'm saying that these photos, the Nix film, were altered to hide the killers and their activities. Kathy

Bernice posted a color photo of the Doorway. It is obvious this photo was edited, blacking out people there for whatever reason. Altgens photo looks to me like they tampered with it too. And like Charles said, they may have altered this picture too because Lovelady's head is atop a body in a weird pose. That, imo, is definitely Lovelady's face. Which makes you wonder, could he have been involved in the "Backyard Photos"? Nobody in that doorway could have known yet that Kennedy was shot. Then in the FBI mug shots, he is wearing a striped shirt. As I don't know why he was photographed by the FBI or when, this shirt may or may not be important. Kathy

You are right, Charles. It's over. They won. With Geraldo Riviera and Norman Mailer adding their voices to Oswald did it alone. These two, in particular, I admired the most. And now they're the Establishment or CIA media assets, whatever. I think about the news as it's become entertainment. It roped me in too. And the most obnoxious propaganda you can see is the face and voice of Sheperd Smith, anchor man for FOX News. His face, his narcissistic assuredness and what he spews out, are the tools the ruling elite use to brainwash the citizens of this "free" country. Whether it's mimicking the cries of Paris Hilton in the courtroom or his happy repartee with their resident Judge, he makes light of News and brings comfort into the home of the audience: It's going to be all right. While Kennedy's murder fades away, and ridicule erodes all conspiracy theories, Bugliosi rises to "solve" the assassination once and for all, with a book physically as big as Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong -- a Landmark book. Kathy

That's a vote of confidence! Kathy

JFK Vs. CIA: The Central Intelligence Agency's Assassination of the President by Michael Calder. This above book argues that it is Oswald in the Doorway. In a review of this book, Michael B. Green, wrote: http://www.amazon.com/JFK-Vs-CIA-Intellige...n/dp/0966074904 "Calder dismisses the possibility that Oswald might have been a shooter because, he proclaims, the famous photo by James Altgens taken just when JFK clutched his throat, shows Oswald standing in front of the Texas State Book Depository, not in its sixth floor "sniper's nest." That Oswald is the man in Altgens' photo is a major point to which Calder devotes four pages of detailed argument (pp.23-26). The Warren Commission concluded that the man in the photo was Oswald look-alike co-worker Billy Lovelady. [What else would they conclude?] Calder cites the testimony of four co-workers of Lovelady and Oswald who were standing outside the Depository in the shadows behind the disputed "Oswald" figure to the effect that Lovelady was with them, hence in the shadows, hence not the man in the photo. Calder ignores that one eyewitness has Lovelady standing, another sitting, and Calder completely ignores the fact that eyewitness testimony is inexact and often is in error. Calder ignores that this testimony collectively locates Lovelady in the general area of the "Oswald" figure, so that a reasonable question is whether or not Lovelady was a little in front of them in the light while they remained unseen in the shadows. But Calder argues that such points need not even be considered since Lovelady was wearing a red striped shirt that day, whereas the man in the photo has on a plaid shirt over a white t-shirt." I say it was Lovelady in the Doorway photo. Kathy

I find myself agreeing with Myra again. In the Lovelady batch of photos, the man in the DPD office looks identical to the man in the doorway. By looking at the DPD photo of Lovelady, and comparing it to the shirt Lovelady claimed, years later, he was wearing that day, I believe they are the same. Look at the stripes down the sleeve. The vertical white stripes are accompanied by vertical black stripes. I believe this was the same shirt Lovelady was wearing on Nov. 22, 1963. My question is, did Lovelady ever identify himself in that doorway picture? Kathy

Here is a more detailed look at Robert L. White's life: www.hantmans.com/pages/newsroom/040515_16_both/Bioswhite_Moynihan.html Here's a bit: Robert L. White (1948-2003) Collecting is a passion of the curious mind. An individual can be absorbed by the historical, cultural or artistic merit of an object and concurrently relish the hunt and pride of ownership. That was Robert White—the quintessential collector. Although renowned internationally as having the finest private collection of Kennedy memorabilia in the world, Robert”s other collections of Americana were equally impressive. Spanning the 18th – 20th centuries, the categories of his fascinating historic memorabilia include: American wars (Civil War through the Korean War), patriotic, presidential, hotel, autographs and Hollywood memorabilia, to mention a few. This auction is a tribute to those eclectic interests. At the tender age of eight Robert White plunged into the world of collecting when he sent a letter to Lassie requesting an autograph or a paw print. The book that inspired his first request, Lassie, will be on display during the exhibition along with other personal mementos and a video of Robert's life produced by his younger son Zach. That early request for Lassie’s paw print spawned a non-stop 46-year collecting journey that is partially represented by the property for sale in this auction. His life's ambition was to display his world-class Kennedy collection in a museum setting and to share it with the public. This dream came to fruition in 1998 when the Florida International Museum in St. Petersburg, mounted an elaborate exhibition of his Kennedy collection that remained on display for five consecutive years. Part of that collection was included in a traveling exhibit. While in sales until 1994, Robert White’s true occupation was that of collector, co-owner of Federal Hill Autographs and occasional dealer. In constant demand as a speaker and for interviews, he received voluminous media coverage over the years. In 1997, Fox TV honored him as "Collector of the Year." Kathy