Chris Newton

I have to defer to David Josephs and others about the Selective Service card. I think the DOD card started life somewhere as a real, blank (unissued), DOD ID card. I don't think the card was issued to Oswald by the Marine Corps Unit that did his ETS paperwork. I think it's obvious that a "Russian style" ID photo has been attached to the card, probably after Oswalds return from the USSR. Oswald's US Passport application used this card as an ID (by number), a full week before Lt. jg. Ayers allegedly issued the card. Speculation: The card was prepared by an agency (CIA? ONI?) asset in anticipation of Oswalds trip to the USSR and Europe. If the DOD ID card's number (4M+) is within a range of cards issued by Ayer's MACS Command then Lt. jg. Ayers may have been a witting asset of the CIA/ONI. The Francis Gary Powers DOD ID card revealed that CIA assets did, in fact carry similar ID's. This information would have been unavailable to Oswald at that time. It can only be through actual involvement with an Agency that this card would be chosen over Oswald's existing and still valid, (at that time - a week before his discharge), regular Marine Corp Active Duty Identification on the passport application. If Oswald had the DOD card on his person when he went to the USSR, I think the KGB would immediately "finger" Oswald as CIA and if so may have confiscated the original card. The possibility also exists that, at some later date, an agency asset with knowledge that Oswald had a similar card issued created this card as a device to help incriminate Oswald in Dallas. I don't think the card could be used in it's current configuration to successfully gain access to a Military Facility. I think it would have been confiscated. Therefore, it's "purpose" as an ID would have been severely limited.

I wasn't so much mixing up the two cards but merely "pivoting" from the draft card back to the DoD card that we've been discussing most of this thread. As far as the Harvey & Lee dynamic, I'm not sold on that theory at all. I am on the fence. I don't want that to inhibit our research but, to it makes me sad every time you and Sandy bring it up to justify some piece of evidence or event. I think "Lee Harvey Oswald", "Lee Oswald", "O.H. Lee" etc. were real names and simultaneously aliases that were tossed around by multiple individuals to build the legend. They were meant to confuse and they did. "Chaos is a ladder"

Whiteout. I agree. Ok I see how he could make the draft cards but the DoD card has a watermark. I think he'd need an original blank. It also doesn't explain how he had that card a week before it was issued.

Is that white out or is that air stuck under the lamination? I see a thin grey/white area around the edge that makes the card seem to be laminated.

Back to the Philadelphia-did-it scenario. I think there are some "family" traditions that east coast elites used to follow. My Philadelphia ancestors, generally all attended Yale and served in the Navy. My Boston area ancestors (Newtons) mostly attended Harvard and served in the Army. JFK was a Bostonian and a Harvard man, is it probable that there was some regional bias based on what "tribe" of east coast elite that one belonged to?

My Philadelphia Family (Morris - my middle name) have served for many generations in the First City Troop, Philadelphia Cavalry and their horses were always at the stables just west of Chestnut Hill. When I was a kid, I was thrilled to go riding with the Troop in the park and they always stopped there for "lunch" on the way. I can remember getting some Fish House punch there that knocked 10 year old me on my @$$. I never actually served with the Troop but I wanted to because their uniforms "got the girls" even moreso than the Marines' dress uniforms.

The very first card on that page is the ID Oswald presented on arrest in New Orleans (not the "fake" DoD dependent card). The backside has Oswald's dates of service and the card is signed by Lt. jg. Ayers. This is what the FBI report indicated. That little mystery is resolved.

Yes. There's no reason to have "numbered" ID's if there is no way to keep track of them. If the number wasn't important then the card would have no number. I assume, DoD would have some way of knowing that so-and-so base had a certain "book" of blanks. I'd be interested in the numbers on the other cards MACS, EL TORO issued (if they ever issued them) in the same time frame. My suspicion though is that the New Orleans' Naval Facilities may be the source. I was trying to research the service regulations concerning expired ID's and I cant find anything that is a 50's-60's regulations, yet, but currently if you try to enter any military base and you present an expired ID Security will confiscate and destroy it.

David my understanding is that there are "books" of uniquely numbered cards given to each service branch . Therefore, I assume that the numbers could be duplicated between different services. Oswald's card begins with a "N" - Navy, Powers' card begins with "AF" - Air Force. There's no correlation between the numbers on each card. I also believe that the number of the card issued correlates to the book it was taken out of, they are not issued from a central location so a Card issued at EL TORO and a card issued the same day at Pearl Harbor would be issued from two different "books" and could have wildly different numbers.

Powers' card is laminated. It is also damaged.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ymfQdYoqKyEC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=Fontaine+ayers+oswald&source=bl&ots=8sAekSxvNx&sig=fsS6iR3gudwvF7qzl0FOacu3stg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjEsMS71oPWAhXGilQKHahMDFkQ6AEIOzAH#v=onepage&q=Fontaine ayers oswald&f=false

normal: typed "X" 's : xxxxxxxxx

No. That's an example of exactly what Lt. jg. Ayers was describing. Look at his service status box. It is DAF CIV. He is not in "Inactive" ...anything. His civilian grade is GS-12 and he is an active CIA employee. Inactive Service Members (Oswald) do not get ID's that let them walk onto US Military bases. I have no problem if you want to try to establish that Oswald was "working" for the US government in some fashion after he finished with the Marines. What I'm telling you is that I am almost 100% certain Oswald did not get issued that ID card when MACS processed his exit paperwork from the Marines.

I don't think you understand how serious security is to the military. He is saying who gets the card -not saying he's going to issue it. Lt jg. Ayers said he would NOT have issued that card to Oswald. I agree with him.

Then the DoD issues him a card which I suggest would still be a different card. Lt. jg. Ayers Commanded the Marine Unit that processed Oswald's paperwork when he transitioned out of the Marine Corps and became a civilian. They were doing his exit papers, his DD 214, etc. I don't even think they are the correct authority to be issuing that card. I'm very skeptical that MACS would ever issue that card to any service member on their ETS.

Fantastic work and research Bart. Thanks

I like that hypothesis. What if the person(s) that set up Oswald had access to his seabags in the Paine garage? Could they have removed an ID card sometime between 11/12/63 and 11/21/63 to make this mock-up ID card and fake wallet (presumably to connect LHO to Hidell and the Tippet murder)? The other question I'll bring up is the N.O. arrest. The FBI report about that arrest says he produced an ID signed by Lt. Ayers. If you produce an expired DoD ID Card as an ID to the police, do they let you keep that? Is there another card that is not expired at the time of his arrest? Does he get the "fake" ID back or does the FBI take it from him at that time so that it can magically reappear in his "Tippet" wallet?

Yes. Presumably that's why the word "sponsor" is also crossed out in two boxes. I have yet to find a card like this issued to someone that did not have a "sponsor". I suspect whomever was pressing Lt. Ayers for an acceptable answer was stuck in the same conundrum we are and trying to make sense of this card. I quoted Lt Ayers from memory so give me some time and I'll come up with the citation. The problem with suggesting that he is a civilian contractor, in the context of this ID card, is that the card's "Service Status" box clearly says "MCR/INACT" it does not say that the current status is CONTRACTOR or anything like that. MCR/INACT means Marine Corps Reserve / Inactive to me. Inactive Marine Corps Servicemen have no PX privileges and do not get this card IMHO.

Sandy, Good eye. I don't know if that one is laminated or not. They are supposed to be. I'm searching for the regulations that apply to them in that era. Here is another one that is laminated (you might need to zoom - this image is small).

Issued to Jesusa Reyes, female, Mother of Sponsor, Private First Class Lupe Munoz. Chris said it's a dependent card. Parent's can be dependents of children though I dread the possible prospect, while still better than others. I think that's correct. Her date of birth is 1898 per the ID. The "Sponsor" is the Active Duty or Retired Military member whose benefits grant the card bearer access and privileges. Remember being discharged from Active Duty and being a Veteran does not make a person a "Retired Veteran" with full benefits (20 years of service or credits equaling 20 years in the case of Reserves and National Guard). (M) Mother (F) Father (W) Wife (S) Son (D) Daughter

No. Lt Ayers stated that, (and my own experience tends to confirm), that this would be the wrong card to issue any service member that receives orders for the Inactive Reserve. Lt Ayers stated the only way Oswald could have been issued that card is if he was a DoD civilian employee contractor and needed access to a US facility overseas. I believe that Lt Ayers was being generous in that statement and that in reality civilian contractors are issued a card that looks like this: and this (proving there are no bad pictures of MM): The Reserve, (active or inactive) and National Guard ID look just like their active duty counterparts but they are in red instead of green.

If Oswald made the DoD ID card where and how did he acquire the restricted blank with the perforations at the top and the DoD watermark?

Thanks David, nice improvement. I see a circle portion in the yellow area that looks like part of the original stamp that has overlapped the corner portion (through the "IUI". Do you see that mark that's under the corner of the photo? Might that mark correspond to the faint yellow circle portion on my original mock-up? There's also something going on above the "PF" in "PFC" that might be related to that yellow circle portion. Last night while studying this, I observed the perforations along the top edge of the ID. These indicate to me that the original ID was part of a "book" of blank IDs. This lends credence to the thought that the ID itself (but not necessarily the contents), is in fact an actual ID. After the card is torn from the "book" a stub remains with the same number, as a record of to whom the card was issued. It makes no sense to have "numbered" IDs if there is no means to track them. Is there a Navy record of these IDs that were "cancelled" anywhere? If Oswald was given a dishonorable discharge from the Inactive Reserve, and he possessed this card, how does the Navy rescind it?

never mind this post

Jack White's discovery.... see previous link from last night.