David Andrews

The title roved away from me. I felt like he let down his tough-guy heroes in that book, including Pete Bondurant. You can look online for interviews where Ellroy says he was inspired by Don DeLillo's superior JFK fiction, Libra. But I was haunted by Bondurant at the end of the first Ellroy book, and imagined for the first time that there were left-out spooks and wiseguys sitting around Dallas that day saying to themselves, "Damn...I was benched." Here's a quote from wiki that will surely outrage some people: "In 2008, Daily Variety reported that HBO, along with Tom Hanks's production company, Playtone, were developing Tabloid and Six Thousand (and, presumably after publication, Blood's a Rover) for either a mini-series or ongoing series. Screenwriter Kirk Ellis is drafting a screenplay for the potential series."

Yeah - the third part seemed hastily written and it wasn't as well reviewed. I liked parts 1 and 2, which took Ellroy out of Los Angeles for once and kind of opened him up. Liking these books, I suspect, aren't good for our credibility here, though. But - lighten up, and do the Tighten-Up with James Ellroy.

Bring back James Ellroy!

Well, here's a question, though. If Kennedy is hit in the shoulder prior to the throat wound at Z-226, do we see anything in Zapruder that fits the physical reaction to that wound that we might expect? I don't see it, myself. Not even at Z-225, emerging from behind the sign. I'm thinking of the agent or other rider on the Queen Mary who reported that he saw the first hit and that it was in the shoulder. (I'll look for this quotation and its origin tonight after work.)

One thing I can tell you. When you are getting shot at, you really dont give a damn about being reserved. You have me there, sir. Still, I'm amazed that JFK takes one through the throat and - absent paralysis - doesn't dive for the floorboards. He's conditioned himself, it seems, into maintaining precisely that much dignity. It's the same process that keeps him reserved between 190 and 225, when something disturbs him and Jackie, and at the Houston-Elm turn, if you suspect there was a pavement strike there. To me he looks like he's working hard to keep panicky gestures out of all his startle reactions, including the involuntary fist lift that preluded his slip into unconsciousness.

Viewing the extant Z-film, it doesn't seem that Kennedy is hit at 190 or even at 225, when he just emerges from behind the Stemmons sign (real or altered). It looks more like both Kennedys were spooked by a near-miss at 190 (perhaps another behind the sign?) and are reacting at 225, just before the obvious throat wound at 226. What would we expect the reaction of a seated man shot below the right shoulder to be, taking into account that he is an official on parade, concerned with holding himself erect and being reserved in his reactions? Can we compare the expected reaction to the frames where JFK is visible between 190-225?

The limo delay related to Lee Bowers' view of parking lot activity? Timing of three cars entering, two with same political bumper sticker? Bowers 11/22/63: BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Lee E. Bowers, Jr., w/m/38 of 10508 Maplegrove Lane, Dallas, Texas DA-1-1909 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says: I work at North Tower Union Terminal Co. RI-8-4698 7 am to 3 pm Monday thru [sic] Friday. The tower where I work is West and a little north of the Texas Book Depository Building. I was on duty today and about 11:55 am I saw a dirty 1959 Oldsmobile Station Wagon come down the street toward my building. This street dead ends in the railroad yard. This car had out of state license plats with white background and black numbers, no letters. It also had a Goldwater for "64" sticker in the rear window. This car just drove around slowly and left the area. It was occupied by a middle aged white man partly grey hair. At about 12:15 pm another car came into the area with a white man about 25 to 35 years old driving. This car was a 1957 Ford, Black, 2 door with Texas license. This man appeared to have a mike or telephone in the car. Just a few minutes after this car left at 12:20 pm another car pulled in. This car was a 1961 Chevrolet, Impala, 4 door, am not sure that this was a 4 door, color white and dirty up to the windows. This car also had a Goldwater for "64" sticker. This car was driven by a white male about 25 to 35 years old with long blond hair. He stayed in the area longer than the others. This car also had the XXX [strikeout] same type license plates as the 1959 Oldsmobile. He left this area about 12:25 pm. About 8 or 10 minutes after he left I heard at least 3 shots very close together. Just after the shots the area became crowded with people coming from Elm Street and the slope just north of Elm. Bowers 4/2/64: Mr. Ball. Close to noon, did you make any observation of the area around between your tower and Elm Street? Mr. Bowers. Yes; because of the fact that the area had been covered by police for some 2 hours. Since approximately 10 o'clock in the morning traffic had been cut off into the area so that anyone moving around could actually be observed. Since I had worked there for a number of years I was familiar with most of the people who came in and out of the area. Mr. Ball. Did you notice any cars around there? Mr. Bowers. Yes; there were three cars that came in during the time from around noon until the time of the shooting. Mr. Ball. Came in where? Mr. Bowers. They came into the vicinity of the tower, which was at the extension of Elm Street, which runs in front of the School Depository, 'and which there is no way out. It is not a through street to anywhere. Mr. Ball. There is parking area behind the School Depository, between that building and your tower? Mr. Bowers. Two or three railroad tracks and a small amount of parking area for the employees. Mr. Ball. And the first came along that you noticed about what time of day? Mr. Bowers. I do not recall the exact time, but I believe this was approximately 12:10, wouldn't be too far off. Mr. Ball. And the car you noticed, when you noticed the car, where was it? Mr. Bowers. The car proceeded in front of the School Depository down across 2 or 3 tracks and circled the area in front of the tower, and to the west of the tower, and, as if he was searching for a way out, or was checking the area, and then proceeded back through the only way he could, the same outlet he came into. Mr. Ball. The place where Elm dead ends? Mr. Bowers. That's right. Back in front of the School Depository was the only way he could get out. And I lost sight of him, I couldn't watch him. Mr. Ball. What was the description of that car? Mr. Bowers. The first car was a 1959 Oldsmobile, blue and white station wagon with out-of-State license. Mr. Ball. Do you know what State? Mr. Bowers. No; I do not. I would know it, I could identify it, I think, if I looked at a list. Mr. Ball. And, it had something else, some bumper stickers? Mr. Bowers. Had a bumper sticker, one of which was a Goldwater sticker, and the other of which was of some scenic location, I think. Mr. Ball. And, did you see another car? Mr. Bowers. Yes, some 15 minutes or so after this, at approximately 12 o'clock, 20 to 12--I guess 12:20 would be close to it, little time differential there--but there was another car which was a 1957 black Ford, with one male in it that seemed to have a mike or telephone or something that gave the appearance of that at least. Mr. Ball. How could you tell that? Mr. Bowers. He was holding something up to his mouth with one hand and he was driving with the other, and gave that appearance. He was very close to the tower. I could see him as he proceeded around the area. Mr. Ball. What kind of license did that have? Mr. Bowers. Had a Texas license. Mr. Ball. What did it do as it came into the area, from what street? Mr. Bowers. Came in from the extension of Elm Street in front of the School Depository. Mr. Ball. Did you see it leave? Mr. Bowers. Yes; after 3 or 4 minutes cruising around the area it departed the same way. He did probe a little further into the area than the first car. Mr. Ball. Did you see another car? Mr. Bowers. Third car, which entered the area, which was some seven or nine minutes before the shooting, I believe was a 1961 or 1962 Chevrolet, four-door Impala, white, showed signs of being on the road. It was muddy up to the windows, bore a similar out-of-state license to the first car I observed, occupied also by one white male. Mr. Ball. What did it do? Mr. Bowers. He spent a little more time in the area. He tried-he circled the area and probed one spot right at the tower in an attempt to get and was forced to back out some considerable distance, and slowly cruised down back towards the front of the School Depository Building. Mr. Ball. Then did he leave? Mr. Bowers. The last I saw of him he was pausing just about in--just above the assassination site. Mr. Ball. Did the car park, or continue on or did you notice? Mr. Bowers. Whether it continued on at that very moment or whether it pulled up only a short distance, I couldn't tell. I was busy. Mr. Ball. How long was this before the President's car passed there? Mr. Bowers. This last car? About 8 minutes.

My days of posting on the Forum, are basically over, because of the general habit of my posts being ignored.... Best of luck to those here, that aren't in love with bashing other researchers, and are actually still doing research....such as Robert, you would be greatly missed here.

Bobby Hargis did encounter debris, I have no doubt about that. The question here is, did something slam into Hargis, or did Hargis slam into something? I would think that with a high-velocity shot, Hargis would have been splattered more than misted by riding through a cloud of disjecta, though (judging by complaints that the spray from the right front of the head should have stayed on Zapruder's film for more frames), there was probably hanging spray and some ride-through involved. Just a question to all, apropos of the motorcycle escort: If the limo slowed to 11 MPH, or lower, or stopped - what effect would this have had on the motorcycle riders? I've never ridden a motorcycle. What happens to balance, to the reaction of the riders? Do their boots come off the pegs, preparing to touch the pavement, if slowing drastically? Do motorcycles waver if they slow unexpectedly in parade formation?

Halpern later claimed that "Bobby Kennedy was a bad influence on Des. He reinforced his worst instincts." Should we believe Halpern? Perhaps time to try to establish parameters of JFK's and RFK's involvement with Mongoose. Can someone remind me of Fletcher Prouty's take on RFK dealing with Mongoose figures at Pentagon, such as Lansdale?

We ought to be asking how it is that protesters against a North African regime are allowed to congregate in Dallas when Robert Groden is hounded, and just how it comes about that a coup in Egypt can be branded by Google (see last week's 60 Minutes), apparently now the Bell Helicopter of our times.

Again, people who really want to see how investigative journalists ought to research Alton Ochsner and weaponized virology should compare how polio and AIDS are examined in this documentary, The Origin of AIDS: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438938/ Which can be watched here: http://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=123 And is based on this book, The River, by Edward Hooper: http://www.amazon.com/River-Journey-Source-HIV-AIDS/dp/0316371378/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298211162&sr=8-1

OK - Over to you, Glen.

Glen Sample, co-author of The Men on the Sixth Floor, asserts in "The Guilty Men," segment 1, that LBJ took a room at "a local hotel" in Austin for the ten days of the Wallace (Kinser) trial, and "constantly sent runners" to check the trial progress. Sample does not cite his sources (in the documentary).

The source is a gentleman interviewed in the very same "Guilty Men" clip that I linked to in my post. I was in a hurry this morning, so I don't know what authority he has, or who it is that he quotes, on LBJ and the Wallace trial. The man tells his tale less than halfway through the first YouTube chapter ("Segment 1") of "The Guilty Men." The three banned episodes are all on YouTube. If you can't locate the segment, I'd have to get back to you tonight with the way it's sourced in the episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsaHGwfflG8 Said to have taken a room at a nearby hotel for ten days, sent runners to the courtroom to report the proceedings.

Again, for comparison, it would be useful to have a study of the other Americans, especially US military, who defected and returned in the same period as Oswald. Can't believe no one's put Oswald in that context - thus leaving him a singularity susceptible to LNs and other misinterpreters.

Delete

OK ! See the last couple pages of the soi-disant "sex freak" thread for our rehabilitative urges.

Thanks, David and Robin. Does it seem that the mirror took more spots than the windshield, like a concentration in that center area? If so, does that tell us anything?

Alex, as a onetime college instructor, I would suggest briefly introducing Prouty's Pentagon and intelligence insider status (in either text or notes), and then using quotations that reflect his knowledge and observation, rather than making points using Prouty's more speculative assertions on how the assassination was ordered, the violations of security in Dealey Plaza, the rapidity of news coverage in Christchurch, NZ, etc. Prouty is most often challenged when he departs from his personal experience, and direct or vouched-for knowledge - as in Len Colby's post on the Zapata speculation. Use Prouty as a source on the background and context of the assassination.

Are there any photos that show blood on the windshield? I see the mirror spots. David J., do I take it that you don't think there was that much actual frontal splatter from the right front head "flap," unlike in the extant Z-film?

JFK (so the Secret Service claimed) didn't like SS agents on his limo. How about sirens blowing around him? Any si-reens on the infamous "Stuck motorcycle microphone" Dictabelt?

Command area on the second floor of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD): Cliff Carter, Carlos Marcello, Jack Rubenstein, George Reese; Carlos was in court in N. O., no?

How can a Warren Commission document, in this case CD 480; be considered a book at maryferrell.org that cannot be "unlocked?" See http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/lockedPage.do?docId=10881 Or simply try to access CD 480....... OK - but I was really just tring to find the publisher that reprinted and is selling Armstrong's Harvey and Lee. I used to have a link to their site, lost it, and Google's no help. Anybody remember?