David Andrews

That picture of the dog, though...

Gave him a ride from the Paine house in Irving every day? Or altered his route to pick up LHO at the North Beckley Street house in Oak Cliff? FYI, there is a past thread here that speculates that LHO and BWF were lovers, based on a singular interpretation of something Frazier said. I don't, at this time, endorse the theory.

In the first 15 minutes of Rob's comments he mentions Dr. Newman's presentation on Antonio Veciana not being that important. I think it is in the big picture. It brings home the fact that Gaeton Fonzi, and in turn I and many others were misled. Ron, I'm wondering why this topic doesn't have its own thread already, based on the scuttlebutt about Newman's thesis. I imagine people want to see video on Newman's presentation first, or read it in some form. The fact remains that Gaeton Fonzi witnessed David Atlee Phillips get upset and display avoidance behavior when Fonzi brought Veciana to confront Phillips while he was testifying before HSCA. That in itself speaks of some involvement between Veciana and CIA, and of fear and guilt over it in Phillips. Perhaps Veciana was involved with CIA through Phillips apart from his being run by military intelligence. Also, if Fletcher Prouty is correct about CIA's penetration of the military, to the extent that some CIA officers (e. g., Ed Lansdale) held military rank when a military cover was needed, it is possible that Phillips was able to operate through the cover of military intelligence. However, Phillips did, as far as Fonzi knew, approach Veciana as a civilian, in Veciana's version of the truth. What say? Should the mods move this post over to a new thread discussing the Newman research on Veciana? Are there any EF members who attended Newman's COPA presentation and can summarize his thesis?

Wickliffe Draper and the Pioneer Fund for eugenics, mentioned in the John Bevilaqua post: https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKdraperW.htm

David J - In my post I was was quoting a statement made above by Joe B. He mentions Reilly Coffee there, but I was answering the adjacent detail about the flip-flops that Joe B brought up. Sorry I didn't use the Quote feature. I myself don't believe JVB on any particular point. But it's good that you brought up the suspicious forms.

But, dog gone it...she did work at Reilly's coffee during Lee's time there, and she was hired and let go at just about the same times Lee was. And she knew that Lee had and wore flip flops ( did she read this before she mentioned it?) Where was that little fact written about before Judyth? *** That's actually a detail in Don DiLillo's novel Libra (1988). So flip-flops are either noted in some prior research, or it was invented for the novel and JVB picked it up there.

Wait...this isn't about the dueling conferences?

JFK numbers, from IMDB.com. Does not include home video media. Box Office Budget: $40,000,000 (estimated) Opening Weekend USA: $5,223,658, 22 December 1991 Gross USA: $70,405,498 Cumulative Worldwide Gross: $205,405,498

And, walk over to the Old Red Courthouse on Main St. Just east of the court house is the rather strange Kennedy Monument. It's a visual metaphor for all the stonewalling in the case.

If he'd gone to New Orleans, they could have given him the Coodie Gras.

I admit that I had to pause Irishman several times at home because of calls, snacks, etc. That's why I want to see it again before I write anything about it.

JFK theatrical version 3:09 running time, Irishman 3:29. Nobody stays for the end credits, so figure aprx. 3:00 vs. 3:20 dramatic story time.

What movie was that again? Oliver Stone's JFK?

The safe bet: Marty for Best Director Marriage Story for Best Drama Film (Outside chance for Joker: the uproar over promoting gun violence would last only two days) Don't forget, this is a press-originated award ceremony, and the entertainment press can be and has been bribed. Watch for DiCaprio's lock-in for Best Actor - Comedy.

Well, Olson came home after the weekend and seemed depressed to his family, then returned to work at Ft. Detrick and asked to be taken off the Army biochemical project. I'm thinking maybe he was given repeated doses during the weekend. His boss, Col. Vincent Ruwet, claimed before Congress that he had been dosed also, but that was after twenty years of obfuscation. I just watched the first episode of Wormwood, and a brief scene seems to suggest that Olson was put under a mock interrogation during the trip weekend, as part of a truth serum experiment. Olson may have freaked out, and the weekend's fun may have exacerbated previous dissatisfaction with his job. I have to see how that plays out in the series, and if there's a factual basis for the interrogation scene. Going out the window seems to have been the consequence of the Army's demand that Olson see a psychiatrist about his desire to quit. A shrink visit would have laid groundwork for suspicion that he was disturbed while he was kept isolated in a New York hotel with a high window. They didn't want him talking about the program. It's dangerous to speculate, but this was four years after James Forrestal was confined at Bethesda after wandering the streets wailing that the Russians were about to invade. He also went out a window.

I wouldn't doubt that Olson's first dose was very strong in measurement, and of very potent quality to begin with. I wonder, though, if the subsequent problems leading to his death were caused by repeated dosings that haven't been admitted to.

Are people aware that there's a 2017 Netflix series on Frank Olson called Wormwood? Directed by Errol Morris. It's billed as a documentary-fiction blend. I haven't seen it but I will:

Can this site be reformed as an American 501(c)3, for tax deductible funding contributions? Can the JFKA Debate be separated from Education Forum and recreated as a 501(c)3? I admit, I am ignorant about whether this tax designation currently applies to internet sites.

I'm an agent provocateur...but for our side...accidentally. OK, it was a Don Knotts moment.

Should we all start signing out when not reading/posting, perhaps for a scheduled test period?

It's "To each his own" territory. Michael's sit-downs with Hyman Roth in Miami and Havana, and his Machiavellian confrontation of Joe Pentangelli at the Corleones' old family home (from the first picture) really rock for me, as do the performances of seasoned stage actors Michael V. Gazzo and Lee Strasberg as Pentangelli and Roth. (Pacino brought in Strasberg, and I'm betting Gazzo as well.) Mob life is made out of sit-downs for which the participants are grateful if the substance is merely boring. In Godfather Part II, they're used for splendid dramatic effect. It's all about buildup. One of the great things in Nino Rota's musical scores for the two pictures is the "tolling bell" effect, that repeated piano note sounding like a bell striking for the dead that occurs a few minutes before all hell breaks loose, as a visceral signal. Listen for that when the buildup scenes reach their tipping points. As the novelist Robert Stone once wrote, "'It tolls for thee, m*********er!'" Coppola uses Rota's "tolling" for great emotional resonance. You can hear a muted version of the tolling bell in this scene from The Godfather when Michael arrives at the hospital, and later when he goes out on the front steps with Enzo the baker. It's done more forcefully in several other scenes in both films that I can't locate on YouTube:

There have been rumors for some time. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/dec/05/albert-camus-murdered-by-the-kgb-giovanni-catelli "Camus had sided publicly with the Hungarian uprising since autumn 1956, and was highly critical of Soviet actions. He also publicly praised and supported the Russian author Boris Pasternak, who was seen as anti-Soviet." He also leaned toward a peaceful Algerian independence: https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2013/nov/19/the-outsider-camus-algeria-reading-group https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2013/nov/07/albert-camus-centenary-honour-google-france-algeria "It's also worth noting that Camus was writing in sympathy with the Arab population in Algeria even before the second world war. After the war, he stridently denounced France's refusal to honour promises to grant citizenship and equal rights to all Arabs in Algeria and warned presciently: 'if you are unwilling to change quickly enough, you lose control of the situation.' He also wrote: 'We must convince ourselves that in north Africa as elsewhere, we will preserve nothing that is French unless we preserve justice as well.'"

Jim, you're missing the boat here. People adored the thing - twice - and it's so easy to see why when all is viewed synergistically. BTW, I could make a list of all the allusions to, and influences of, the JFKA on, Part I and Part II. But I'm going to beg off for now so I can finish watching Ad Astra. Talk about low material! I love Petulia, but is it not the triumph of style over substance, as cliche-mongers used to say?

Puzo wrote about the gambling and the Godfather solution in a post-film book of essays and collected magazine pieces called The Godfather Papers, which must have made him feel like Norman Mailer. The film treatment payoff is recounted by Robert Evans: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2003/jan/24/artsfeatures.johnpatterson I shouldn't b*tch so much about Puzo - like Homer in The Iliad, he pointed the way to the nobility and humanity in low deeds. Plus he made my grandmother happy with Pete Clemenza's cooking lesson: "Then you shove in your salsice and your meatballs, add a little more wine...."

Plus those gambling debts, which make every litterateur feel like Dostoevsky.