Bernice Moore

Hi Robin: Either that, or speaking into a something, or coughing.....?? I have noticed that his coat has been and is being called a trench coat, for some time, it appears now it could possibley be a plastic see through... It's possible John, that her coat could be showing reflections on the plastic from the sun the same as up at her shoulder and other areas.....seems similar ..? B

I have lightened it some, she may be carrying a purse..possible his rain coat is also a see through.. B

"First Day Evidence and Dealey Plaza" Michael Parks.. "The SecretService performed a reenactment on 12/5/63 of the shooting of President Kennedy at Dealey Plaza. A survey plat was made for this event by Dallas County Surveyer Robert West and his assistant, Chester Breneman. This survey plat later became Commission Exhibit 585.. This was not the first reenactment performed by the Secret Service in Dealey Plaza. On 11/27/63, they hired the local CBS affiliate KRLD-TV...to film a pre-reenactment, the television crew filmed from Zapruder's pedestal. Within this automobile were two other camera-men, one filming back toward the Texas School Book Depository while the other films ahead toward the Triple Underpass. We do not know why the Secret Service needed a pre-reenactment. At the time of this event, they had the Zapruder film and may even had a survey plat made on 11/25/63 for Time/Life by the same survey team of West and Breneman..The Official story during both the Secret Services reenactments was three shots, three hits.This story did not change until the following year with the advent of the Magic Bullet... Breneman stated that they had a full set of Zapruder frames from which to work with during the December reenactment..The was furnished by Life Magazine to the Secret Service .These slide were used to place the shots on CE 585..... As was pointed out by Chuck Marler in his several informative articles on the topic, shots were placed at Zapruder frames 208, 276, and 358.. These locations were marked on the county survey plat and it became an official document.. It is quite obvious by even the casual observer that the Zapruder film does not support this shot placement.." The next year to back up the theory of the Magic Bullet, the FBI and the Warren Commission held a third reenactment in the Plaza..on 5/24/64....the actors used the Zapruder film, and West and Breneman made another survey plat..CE 882...they move the Head shot to Z 313 from Z 358.. .It makes you wonder if they had the same film....??? The three yellow curb painted sections within the area where JFK was killed, the last yellow curb marker, is seen after Z 313 but before Z 358..... " There is no way the Secret Service could have been off 45 frames in their head shot placement unless they viewed a different Zapruder film.." '' Is there more proof the Stemmons sign was moved? Yes ! Surveyor ( Joe) West stated he later measured his plats and found the sign had been moved by more than ten feet.. Even assassination witness and Dealey Plaza groundskeeper, Emmett Hudson testified the signs in the Plaza had been moved ( shortly ?) after 11/22/63...He also said the head shot was almost in front of where he stood. This would agree more with the Secret Service's Z 358 shot than the FBI's Z 313... It appears the sign was moved to the FBI's position to match the altered sign in the Zapruder film... All the Zapruder frames seen were chosen because of the closeness to the reenactment .." http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=34 http://www.assassinationscience.com/johnco...intro/sign.html B..

Jack White asked me to post this.... B..

Jack White has asked me to post this .. Did Princess Diana have secret information about the two men pictured here..? Jack..

Some information copied from the web, a few years ago. The links all but the last, are now dead..but ....may be worth a read... For anyone interested.. Government Editorial Keywords: JFK, FEDERAL RESERVE, RIPOFF Source: Uncensored Media Weekly Published: n/a Author: Anthony Wayne Posted on 11/22/2000 09:03:04 PST by rubbertramp Uncensored Media Weekly JFK vs. The Federal Reserve On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. The Christian Common Law Institute has exhaustively researched this matter through the Federal Register and Library of Congress. We can now safely conclude that this Executive Order has never been repealed, amended, or superceded by any subsequent Executive Order. In simple terms, it is still valid. When President John Fitzgerald Kennedy - the author of Profiles in Courage - signed this Order, it returned to the federal government, specifically the Treasury Department, the Constitutional power to create and issue currency - money - without going through the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. President Kennedy's Executive Order 11110 [the full text is displayed further below] gave the Treasury Department the explicit authority: "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury." This means that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation based on the silver bullion physically held there. As a result, more than $4 billion in United States Notes were brought into circulation in $2 and $5 denominations. $10 and $20 United States Notes were never circulated but were being printed by the Treasury Department when Kennedy was assasinated. It appears obvious that President Kennedy knew the Federal Reserve Notes being used as the purported legal currency were contrary to the Constitution of the United States of America. "United States Notes" were issued as an interest-free and debt-free currency backed by silver reserves in the U.S. Treasury. President Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963 and the United States Notes he had issued were immediately taken out of circulation. Federal Reserve Notes continued to serve as the legal currency of the nation. According to the United States Secret Service, 99% of all U.S. paper "currency" circulating in 1999 are Federal Reserve Notes. Kennedy knew that if the silver-backed United States Notes were widely circulated, they would have eliminated the demand for Federal Reserve Notes. This is a very simple matter of economics. The USN was backed by silver and the FRN was not backed by anything of instrinsic value. Executive Order 11110 should have prevented the national debt from reaching its current level (virtually all of the nearly $9 trillion in federal debt has been created since 1963) if LBJ or any subsequent President were to enforce it. It would have almost immediately given the U.S. Government the ability to repay its debt without going to the private Federal Reserve Banks and being charged interest to create new "money". Executive Order 11110 gave the U.S.A. the ability to, once again, create its own money backed by silver and real value worth something. Again, according to our own research, just five months after Kennedy was assasinated, no more of the Series 1958 "Silver Certificates" were issued either, and they were subsequently removed from circulation. Perhaps the assassination of JFK was a warning to all future presidents not to interfere with the private Federal Reserve's control over the creation of money. It seems very apparent that President Kennedy challenged the "powers that exist behind U.S. and world finance". With true patriotic courage, JFK boldly faced the two most successful vehicles that have ever been used to drive up debt: 1) war (Viet Nam); and, 2) the creation of money by a privately owned central bank. His efforts to have all U.S. troops out of Vietnam by 1965 combined with Executive Order 11110 would have destroyed the profits and control of the private Federal Reserve Bank. Executive Order 11110 AMENDMENT OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 10289 AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE PERFORMANCE OF CERTAIN FUNCTIONS AFFECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY By virtue of the authority vested in me by section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, it is ordered as follows: SECTION 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 19, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended - (a) By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j): "(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b-) of section 43 of the Act of May 12, 1933, as amended (31 U.S.C. 821 (b-)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denominations of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption," and (b-) By revoking subparagraphs (b-) and © of paragraph 2 thereof. SECTION 2. The amendment made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made. JOHN F. KENNEDY THE WHITE HOUSE, June 4, 1963 Once again, Executive Order 11110 is still valid. According to Title 3, United States Code, Section 301 dated January 26, 1998: Executive Order (EO) 10289 dated Sept. 17, 1951, 16 F.R. 9499, was as amended by: EO 10583, dated December 18, 1954, 19 F.R. 8725; EO 10882 dated July 18, 1960, 25 F.R. 6869; EO 11110 dated June 4, 1963, 28 F.R. 5605; EO 11825 dated December 31, 1974, 40 F.R. 1003; EO 12608 dated September 9, 1987, 52 F.R. 34617 The 1974 and 1987 amendments, added after Kennedy's 1963 amendment, did not change or alter any part of Kennedy's EO 11110. A search of Clinton's 1998 and 1999 EO's and Presidential Directives has also shown no reference to any alterations, suspensions, or changes to EO 11110. The Federal Reserve Bank, a.k.a Federal Reserve System, is a Private Corporation. Black's Law Dictionary defines the "Federal Reserve System" as: "Network of twelve central banks to which most national banks belong and to which state chartered banks may belong. Membership rules require investment of stock and minimum reserves." Privately-owned banks own the stock of the FED. This was explained in more detail in the case of Lewis v. United States, Federal Reporter, 2nd Series, Vol. 680, Pages 1239, 1241 (1982), where the court said: "Each Federal Reserve Bank is a separate corporation owned by commercial banks in its region. The stock-holding commercial banks elect two thirds of each Bank's nine member board of directors". The Federal Reserve Banks are locally controlled by their member banks. Once again, according to Black's Law Dictionary, we find that these privately owned banks actually issue money: "Federal Reserve Act. Law which created Federal Reserve banks which act as agents in maintaining money reserves, issuing money in the form of bank notes, lending money to banks, and supervising banks. Administered by Federal Reserve Board (q.v.)". The privately owned Federal Reserve (FED) banks actually issue (create) the "money" we use. In 1964, the House Committee on Banking and Currency, Subcommittee on Domestic Finance, at the second session of the 88th Congress, put out a study entitled Money Facts which contains a good description of what the FED is: "The Federal Reserve is a total money-making machine. It can issue money or checks. And it never has a problem of making its checks good because it can obtain the $5 and $10 bills necessary to cover its check simply by asking the Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving to print them". Any one person or any closely knit group who has a lot of money has a lot of power. Now imagine a group of people who have the power to create money. Imagine the power these people would have. This is exactly what the privately owned FED is! No man did more to expose the power of the FED than Louis T. McFadden, who was the Chairman of the House Banking Committee back in the 1930s. In describing the FED, he remarked in the Congressional Record, House pages 1295 and 1296 on June 10, 1932: "Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government Board, has cheated the Government of the United States and he people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt. The depredations and the iniquities of the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks acting together have cost this country enough money to pay the national debt several times over. This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of the United States; has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our Government. It has done this through the maladministration of that law by which the Federal Reserve Board, and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it". Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are not Government institutions, departments, or agencies. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers. Those 12 private credit monopolies were deceitfully placed upon this country by bankers who came here from Europe and who repaid us for our hospitality by undermining our American institutions. The FED basically works like this: The government granted its power to create money to the FED banks. They create money, then loan it back to the government charging interest. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt. On this point, it's interesting to note that the Federal Reserve Act and the sixteenth amendment, which gave congress the power to collect income taxes, were both passed in 1913. The incredible power of the FED over the economy is universally admitted. Some people, especially in the banking and academic communities, even support it. On the other hand, there are those, such as President John Fitzgerald Kennedy, that have spoken out against it. His efforts were spoken about in Jim Marrs' 1990 book Crossfire: "Another overlooked aspect of Kennedy's attempt to reform American society involves money. Kennedy apparently reasoned that by returning to the constitution, which states that only Congress shall coin and regulate money, the soaring national debt could be reduced by not paying interest to the bankers of the Federal Reserve System, who print paper money then loan it to the government at interest. He moved in this area on June 4, 1963, by signing Executive Order 11110 which called for the issuance of $4,292,893,815 in United States Notes through the U.S. Treasury rather than the traditional Federal Reserve System. That same day, Kennedy signed a bill changing the backing of one and two dollar bills from silver to gold, adding strength to the weakened U.S. currency. Kennedy's comptroller of the currency, James J. Saxon, had been at odds with the powerful Federal Reserve Board for some time, encouraging broader investment and lending powers for banks that were not part of the Federal Reserve system. Saxon also had decided that non-Reserve banks could underwrite state and local general obligation bonds, again weakening the dominant Federal Reserve banks". In a speech made to Columbia University on Nov. 12, 1963, ten days before his assassination, President John Fitzgerald Kennedy said: "The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office, I must inform the citizen of this plight." In this matter, John Fitzgerald Kennedy appears to be the subject of his own book... a true Profile of Courage. This research report was compiled for Lawgiver.Org by Anthony Wayne ********************************************************************* A Time Line of the National Bank December 14, 1790 Alexander Hamilton proposes a Bank of the United States. December 16, 1790 Patric Henry opposes the National bank because it is unconstitutional. February 25, 1791 President Washington asks his cabinet members for opinions on the National Bank. Thomas Jefferson submitted that such a Bank was unconstitutional and would also violate the yet to be ratified 10th Amendment. Alexander Hamilton submitted that Congress's power to collect taxes, was also power to create a national bank. Not convinced by either side, Washington sided with Hamilton as it was Hamilton's job as Secretary of the Treasury to know what he was doing. December 12, 1791 The Bank of the United States opens it's doors in Philadelphia. January 21, 1793 Hamilton and the National Bank are accused of corruption and mismanagement. Opponents to the National Bank call for the demise of the unconstitutional Bank. Congress fails to act. February 20, 1811 Congress refuses to let the National Bank renew its Charter on the grounds that the Bank is unconstitutional. March 4, 1811, The Bank of the United States is dissolved. January 20, 1815 President Madison vetoes a bill that would create a second National Bank. January 8, 1816 Faced with financial hardship from the War of 1812, Congress proposes a 2nd National Bank. The Bill also allows the President to suspend hard currency. March 14, 1816 The 2nd National Bank gets Congressional approval. January 1, 1817 The 2nd National Bank opens for business. January 9, 1832 The 2nd National Bank applies for it's Charter renewal 4 years early. July 10, 1832 President Jackson vetoes the Bank's recharter on the grounds that the Bank is unconstitutional. January 1835 With the National Bank powerless, Jackson successfully pays off the nations debt leaving the U.S. with a surplus of $5,000. July 11, 1836 Paper money results in tremendous inflation in property value. President Jackson issues a Specie Circular mandating that land payments be made with gold and silver. July 4, 1840 President Van Buren approves the Independent Treasury which allows the Federal government to control it's own money. June 7, 1841 Henry Clay, on behalf of the Whig party, introduces legislation to abolish the Independent Treasury in hopes to replace the national banking system with a Federal Bank. July 28, 1841 The Senate passes a bill, sponsored by the Whig party, to revive the 2nd National Bank by creating a Federal Bank that would be called The Fiscal Bank of the United States. (A State chartered Bank for the District of Columbia that would be used by the U.S. Government. ) President Tyler vetoes the bill as unconstitutional. August 13, 1841 The Independent Treasury Act is repealed leaving the National government without a Banking system for the next 5 years. The Secretary of the Treasury deposits the government's money into State Banks. September 3, 1841 Congress again tries to create a Federal Bank. This time, they set it up to be run by State office holders. Again, President Tyler vetoes it as unconstitutional. September 18, 1873 A flood of paper money snowballs the Nation into a depression that lasts 5 years. January 14, 1875 The Specie Resumption Act allows legal tender to be exchanged for gold. When the Act goes into affect in 1879, the nation starts to revive from the 1873 depression. 1907 The Nation again goes into a Depression because of paper currency, but J.P. Morgan saves the Nation from a major crisis by providing the government with $100 million dollars in gold. December 23, 1913 In response to the National Depression in 1907, President Wilson gets Congress to pass the Owen-Glass Federal Reserve Act. The Act is intended to better regulate paper money. ************************************************ B4Ranch The link to Ed Flaherty's debunking of this myth is already on the thread at message # 13 (the reference to tin foil). Additionally, the text of the EX 11110 is part of the Official Notes to 3 USC sec 301 (the section deals with delegations of authority by the Prez), ostensibly in two places in the Official Notes - as a part of EO 10289 (originally 1951, with many subsequent amendments, a long list of things delegated to the Sec of the Treasury, EO 11110 is now mentioned only for revoking two old paragraphs that had authorized the Treasury to keep purchasing silver bullion) and standing alone as EO 11110 (in the latest edition of US Code Annotated, it's on 3 USCA sec. 301 page 863-864). EO 11110 was originally published (in June 1963) in 28 Federal Register 5605, and it's appeared in the official notes to 3 USC 301 ever since then. Clearly it hasn't been revoked, amended, or concealed. And reading it, especially keeping in mind the context of the EO 10289 which it says it is amending, makes it clear that it doesn't say what the kooks say it does. EO 11110 was issued simultaneously with the enactment of the Silver Purchase Repeal Act, PL 88-36, June 4, 1963, 77 Stat 54, 1963 USCCAN 56, and that Act should be consulted for the context in which the EO was issued. 27 Posted on 02/14/2001 08:07:04 PST by DonQ ************************************ Acts Authorizing United States Notes http://landru.i-link-2.net/monques/usnotes.html#ACTS B

Here are a few photos that may help. B

Have deleted some of the previous photos.. Here are a couple of photos, from Tosh's area....one from his approximate view. Also a view from the Records building roof.. Also a map from where the possible shooters were. ....but they do not show a possible shot from the north end of the fence, that you could possibley draw in, if you or anyone is interested in doing so.......also the possible shots from the West end of the TSBD...I do have some further info, but not yet.. Ashton, will get back to you, I am busy as well ..Do appreciate your time and work on your drawings... The Terminal Tower I see as being way too large, and not back far enough, and the two men if they were responsible for a shot, would have been down right at the north end of the fence..The one from the street sewer is seemingly the wrong angle somehow.. The photo I am posting of the Plaza shows those two indented ends on the bridge, as it appeared at that time, the blind spots from anyone who was standing on the bridge. Also one of the post office size in relation to the other buildings... Thanks again for a your input, appreciated.. B..

************* Hi Jack: Thanks....for the information.. Thought, some people have their asphalt drive ways, I believe it is called resurfaced in the spring, or early summer weather.....we do up here.. It is not a new asphalt covering but more of a rolled on surface covering, it seals, and helps to prevent the fissures and cracks from spreading..and in away it does appear to be fresh and new for a short while... I am wondering if that is perhaps what they meant. No idea.. Another of the those urban legends.. All......If they will attach,here are two photos showing what the height used to be, with the book, and the build up of the asphalt over the years...as seen a few years ago. All are very welcome, thank you.... B

One of the more unusual requests for help I have read. However here is the help page you need you poisonous old man "you poisonous old man" uncalled for.. imo.... Test My Lord it worked, I emptied the history, all offline content, deleted files, and refreshed, and

Hi Ashton: Re words in one of your previous posts.....Hope your ready for more Codswallop, I do like that word. Goofy, Idiotic and therefore Comical and may even be Risible to the point of being Suicical...thoughts at this time..... This may or may not be of any interest, but what I believe I may see .. QUOTE Bernice: "One problem that has always been a bug bear imo, within the research, is that the witness statements of the people who were there and did see the reactions to and by JFK, of the hits to his head, is not and cannot be complied to what is seen within the same areas of the Zapruder film......? Therefore ??" Ashton Quote :"My current opinion, subject to change, is that the Zapruder film and the Nix film—whatever their individual flaws and shortcomings in current versions—capture the dread moment in cruciform concordance, and in ways that could not possibly have been faked. In fact, I believe that is at least one reason why the Z film was withheld so long. It certainly was long enough to generate a tidal wave of anecdotal testimony—itself in conflict—creating so much tangled bramble and brush of contention and disunity that it only could guarantee a firestorm of controversy and contradictions around the film itself the moment it became available to ignite it. And it did. It is a conflagration raging out of control on this forum at this moment.".....B:always...... ******************* My thoughts on the Zapruder and the Nix films, are as follows....at this time. There were frames cut out of the Zapruder film as well as the Nix....therefore they are both altered...changed.....to what was their true state.....once touched they became obsolete within the studies, in trying to solve the assassination in the area....of the head shots.... as we do not know, exactly where, nor how many frames were exorcised....therefore to try to study the assassination and the head shots within, becomes a exercise in futility.....as well as frustration... That, I am thinking is the why it was done.... that with some frames, several, one or two whatever , if they were cut out of the Zapruder as well as the Nix and in the crucial head shot areas..and we do not know positively that they were not.......we may have no possibility of proving nor solving the assassination in that particluar area, ever...Don't get me wrong, I am very interested in the films, photos and all.....I have become a collector.. Why would they hold the Zapruder film as they did as well as the Nix, which as was not released..either..?.......Oh ,perhaps for want of a better word, so that we would be completely taken in by them.. Our need being so great as well as our our exuberance, when they finally were, that we would and did throw caution to the wind.....We choose to overlook, what we perhaps saw as any faults within, until some researchers began their studies within.....Perhaps we were thinking, now that we had the films the case could be solved...........exactly as they knew all would......?? It sure did not work out that way, and has done nothing but cause more dissension ....as intended, I believe.....The Zapruder wars have been raging ever since.... I do not know, positively, but they played and continue to play the game, and they also only release what they want us to see and hear....at any given time... Just some thoughts... *************************** In studying.....Just : The Dealey Witnesses & Parkland: The eye witnesses information from Dealey Plaza, along with the Doctors, Nurses, Clint Hill, and others that saw the head wound at Parkland along with their medical first day statements at the hospital.... They Comply... In studying .......Just : The Zapruder film, along with the findings of Betheda and the autopsy..They Comply.... In studying...... The later witness that came forth some years later with their siteings and information re Bethesda, such as Dennis David, and O'Connor.....Comply with neither... There appears to be three separate scenarios..but never correlating .....together...and never will.. That in imo, is where the many problems lie, in all, and why the forever dissent which causes the intended divisions amongst the JFK researchers, and the way it was all deliberately set up..to enact that discord...... By doing so, we are fulfilling, exactly what their well laid plans intended...imo.. *************************** Below is the RR Toolbox, ( see white box on left, at back in the Marguerite Oswald photo) that Ed Hoffman spoke of where he saw from a distance a RR worker, catch a rifle thrown to him by the man that Lee Bowers mentions, that you have inserted in your re-creation, at the North end of the fence...along with the younger man, the man then turned and walked back along the fence.....Bowers I believe mentions the RRworker in the general area, but no specifics...in his taped interview with Lane.. "Bowers testified that at the time of the motorcade on November 22, he was located in the Union Terminal Tower in the railroad yard.(182) When asked what people he noticed standing between the tower and Elm Street at the underpass on the high ground, Bowers stated that he saw two man standing within 10 or 15 feet of each other.(183) One of them was middle aged, heavy set, and was wearing a white shirt and dark trousers.(184) The other man was in his mid-twenties, wearing either a plaid shirt or a plaid jacket.(185) Bowers said those two men were directly in his line of vision toward the mouth of the underpass and appeared to be watching the progress of the motorcade.(186) Bowers said he saw the man in the white shirt standing there at the time of the shots, but that he could not see the younger man in the plaid clothing because of the trees, which made him harder to distinguish.(187) " "Bowers said that at that point a motorcycle officer ran up the incline toward the trees in the general area of where the two men were standing;( see two fence Officer Hargis areas photos ) Bowers said there was some kind of commotion at that place, but that he did not know what had happened.(188) " See also view of Bowers below... Link further below. ************************** Roof of Post Office Annex Building..Jesse Price In the Mark Lane video, as close as I can relate to you, as I am not able to capture the frames from the videos, perhaps some day.... ..Jesse Price is seen and it appears to be perhaps towards the middle of the Post Office Terminal Annex Building roof, south side of Dealey..( see Map below ) .along with Mark Lane "Rush to Judgement" video, he sits on the edge, and points towards the middle of the fence area, in that general area, where about Hatman and the smoke is seen...and speaks of a young man running from that specific area, with something in his hand, he also mentions that it could possibley have been a radio...He runs across the tracks, towards the railroad cars ,turning and then disappearing out of site, but down towards the street that leads towards the back of the TSBD...You have hatman in your re-creation...in that general area, I believe, where the smoke is seen approximately..but I believe he needs to be moved more towards the middle of the fence somewhat...??..but not according to the Nix clip ??..when shown the spot that he saw the smoke drift from, by Sam Hoffman he, and Mark Lane seem to be standing between trees, and just to the left perhaps ten-to fifteen feet or so, of the last sign..looking from behind the fence, leading to the underpass, Sam also states that is approximately where he saw JFK take the hit to the head.. ********************************* Smoke: After studying the smoke again , in the photos, it appears to be drifting, and I am thinking that is the reason it appears so large, it is dissipating, there was a wind that day in the Plaza, it would not have appeared as such when it first left the barrel..but the wind would have carried it.. Mr. Holland. There was a shot, a report, I don't know whether it was a shot. I can't say that. And a puff of smoke came out about 6 or 8 feet above the ground right out from under those trees. And at just about this location from where I was standing you could see that puff of smoke, like someone had thrown a firecracker, or something out, and that is just about the way it sounded. It wasn't as loud as the previous reports or shots. Mr. Stern. What number would that have been in the - Mr. Holland. Well, that would - they were so close together. Mr. Stern. The second and third or the third and fourth? Mr. Holland. So, that it might have been the third or the fourth. Tom Dillard, photographer, Mrs. Earle Cabell..Mrs.Donald Baker, P.O Earle Brown, and Cong.Ralph Yarborough..also said they smelled graphite. Saw smoke:at top of the grassy knoll the picket fence north of Elm St.. On the Overpass: Sam Holland, James Simmons, Richard Dodd ,"Rush to Judgement"...Walter Winborn ,and, Thomas Murphy "Cover Up".. Austin Miller ,WC Vol.XXIV p.217, Clemon Johnson also standing on the triple underpass, did not see the smoke from the trees, he did mention exhaust he saw, clarifys in "No More Silence"..he did not look at the grassy knoll, he kept his eyes on the limo, until it left the Plaza.The exhaust he saw was on the street.. Others were looking at the knoll, he was not. The FBI in their report stated that Richard Dodd didn't know where the smoke came from..But Johnson, sets this right...."Holland and Dodd, if both were living today, they'd almost fight you that they saw smoke coming from out of those bushes. They swore that they were looking right at the bushes at the time." he also tells about how Dodd and Holland ran to some bushes saying, "The shots came out of those bushes". so much for the FBI....Johnson also confirms what Dodd says in the video "Rush to Judgement"... Some think the smoke could have been exhaust from say the motorcycles in the motorcade, there was what has been called a rather stiff breeze that blew north to south, that gusted at times to 20 miles an hour.The exhaust would have been blown further south of any of the bikes.It would not have blown north to the trees and the fence at the top of the knoll. Cheryl McKinnon sitting on the grass at the foot of the knoll looked back over her shoulder at the fence and saw smoke. Rosemary Willis was standing on the south side of Elm looking in this direction at the time, said she also saw smoke in this area..( see photo of smoke Bill Miller.). ********************************** Jean Hill I believe mentions the DPM with a rifle in hand, in her book, "The Last Dessenting Witness"..in the approximate area in general where the Badgeman, shooter was located which you have inserted also, I believe she mentions, he was just standing there... ************* Shot from the right: SSA Clint Hill:"On the left hand side was a grass area with a few people scattered along it observing the motorcade passing, and I was visually scanning these people when I heard a noise similar to a firecracker. The sound came from my right rear and I immediately moved my head in that direction. In so doing, my eyes had to cross the Presidential automobile and I saw the President hunch forward and then slump to his left. I jumped from the follow-up car and ran toward the Presidential automobile." SSA Paul Landis: "My immediate thought was that the President could not possibly be alive after being hit like he was. I still was not certain from which direction the second shot came, but my reaction at this time was that the shot came from somewhere towards the front right hand side of the road." Officer Bobby Hargis motorcycle squad DPD.. He testified: "...At the time it sounded like the shots were right next to me...There was something in my head that said that they probably could have been coming from the riailroad overpass , because I thought since I had got splattered, with blood......I was just a little back and left of..... Mrs. Kennedey, but I didn't know........I ran up to this kind of a little wall, brick wall up there to see if I could get a better look on the bridge, and, of course, I was looking all around that place by that time...".. He then came back down jumped on his motorcycle and " rode under-neath the first underpass to look on the opposite side in order to see if he could see anyone running away from the scene......." VI, 294-6 " I looked over to the TSBDB, and no one that was standing at the base of the building was......seemed to be looking up at the building, or anything, like they knew where the shots were coming from .......... Some people looking out of the windows up there didn't seem like they knew what was going on........About the only activity I could see was on the bridge, on the railroad bridge.....and I thought maybe some of them had seen who did the shooting and the rifle"..6H 295 **************************** Shot South side Overpass.... (See photo showing Tosh area of gunsmoke, by J.Dolva, croppped..and also photo of the North end, where the bridge angles in, similar on both sides, and hidden from veiw...where Hargus ran to) Bill Grote, is correct, will post The Cancellare where it shows approximately where Tosh thought a shooter could have been, the far corner he thought re the parking lot, that general area, on the South side... Doug Weldon, in his research also found what he believed to be the trajectory from the south corner of the Overpass that accounted for a possible throat entrance frontal shot, in the same general area..... his work is in the book "Assassination Science"....as the Limo turned the corner onto Elm and proceeded down the hill, the angle of such, for a time, is straight on and pointed towards that corner of the overpass...as it moves along the curve ,there was a direct clear shot without windshield, Jackie nor anyone nor anything in the way...as it travelled down Elm.........according to his research..it was possible...but I believe Doug's work found that trajectory from the farthest corner of the Overpass, but in the same general area..as where Tosh smelled the gunpowder..... Both far corners of the Overpass are completely hidden from view, according to Tosh's and Dougs.....information..and a photo below dhowing the North end......I believe. Tosh stated on a later visit to the Plaza, he went over that area and he does relate, this info on this Forum, that there is a blind spot, hidden from all, who would have been on the bridge at that time.... an angle that turns inward on the Overpass railing..at that spot........but the ground there is lower on the South side.....it was in this general area, that they smelled the gunsmoke... I have a photo showing the other North end, which would be approximately the same view, showing the fence angle turning in, in connection to that side, where Officer Hargis climbed to peer over, btw, which is close to the drain seen behind the fence... Some also smelled gunpowder on Elm Street...as they turned the corner and travelled down the hill in the general knoll area ...the mayors wife, for one, Mrs.Cabell also mentioned such. ***************************** Drains See photos: (The two men are Penn Jones and Bob Groden...below in photo, the other is a Garrison investigator..) Other areas where research has been done, is the Drain at the North corner of the fence, and the sewer drain on Elm street... The drain at the north corner was researched by Penn Jones and Jack Brazil ( they researched all the drains ) also Jim Garrison and some of his men they were all over that area...in 67..along with them...John Judge also looked into them with Penn Jones.....I will post a photo showing the drain possibilitys....at that time. About the sewer drain on Elm Street on the North side of the street....Tom Wilson, studied this area as well as Gregory Burham, and Robert Harris, also John Judge has his comments below....the researchers all found the trajectory of one of the shots to the head, was from a upwards angle, that came from below JFK....?? Their studies were done separately, some years apart ....the sewer drain on Elm at that time, was by no means as it is now, the road was completely recovered with a fresh layer of asphalt by Oliver Stone for the movie JFK, which of course brought the height up, as well as over the years toppings, you will see the differences.. the old drains as you will see and read, were able to have a man stand within, there was also a sewer system that Penn and Brazil and his men, crawled through which came out to the Humber River drain, a huge entrance ,exit system...of such...I am including the following information for your studies...from an earlier compilation... I have also read that Jack Brazil has a map of the Dallas sewer system, perhaps if still alive and responding, he may be able to supply such...I have never been able to obtain his email address....if he has one...and never been able to locate him...perhaps that would be much easier for another member. ..also I do not have Tom Wilson's information, no one does..... he is in a episode of TMWKK, and goes through all his research......for the viewers......he was a former U.S. Steel scientist...his work was never published though he did present a copy of all to the HSCA, I am thinking, or the ARRB...?.gone right now.......it has disappeared and is not found....his findings which were years ahead are similar to the findings of some contributors in "Assassination Science."..... Gil Jesus wrote this below I believe in 2005....there is a map from Gregory Burham's research that also ties into his research....re distances and angles from the Elm St. sewer...below. ""However, some have suggested (myself included) in the last several years that the fatal shot came from a storm drain on the north side of Elm Street. This storm drain is located at an approximately 12 degree angle and 70 feet to the right front of where the fatal shot hit the President. Its trajectory angle would explain the location of the right rear occipital/parietal exit wound. It would explain the spraying of the police officers to the left rear of the car (they were sprayed so hard that one of the officers, Bobby Hargis, stated afterward that he initially thought he was hit). It would explain the Harper skull fragment's location to the left rear of the car. And finally it explains the back and to the left direction of the head movement in harmony with the aforementioned evidence.."" ***************** Jack Brazil thought, that a shooter could have crawled up from the connecting pipes from a different location and crawled back after the shooting. He would not have to climb into the manhole before and climb out after.He would get there from connecting pipes...to Elm Street.. No link. more data. Wed, 04 Jun 1997 15:42 Posted on alt.conspiracy.jfk By XXXXXXXXXXX Early information. City workers had the sewer opened behind the tool shed today. It appears to be a standard sewer in that the round opening is the top of the bell. The sides are built with brick and had iron rungs for climbing down. The pipe at the bottom was covered with mud and debris but it appeared to be 12-15 feet deep and about 4 feet in diameter. Tom Bowden The Conspiracy Museum No link working now, not found.. ********************************* Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 00:55:11 -0400 From John Judge To: treefrog Ed, I missed the earlier part of this exchange but have always believed the fatal shot came from the storm sewer on Elm Street to the right front of the motorcade. This was not from speculation or photo angling. The letter from Ed T, whoever that is, hits the nail on the head. I used to crawl down in the sewer with Penn Jones in 60s and it is quite different today. For one thing, the bottom has been filled in (note the flattening of the pipe opening at the bottom) and the opening that used to come up to my armpits now only reaches my waist. Oliver Stone repaved the street for his film and considerably reduced the size of the opening onto the street. It was more than ample and wide for the head shot. And Penn Jones, Jim Garrison and other critics placed the shot there from reports by witnesses and the physical evidence. It was Mark Lane in the late 60's who tried to move everyone up to the Grassy Knoll. Earwitnesses heard a completely different sound from the last shot fired, one saying it echoed as if in a sewer. Also see Livingstone " Killing the Truth".. *************************** Connally and others in the motorcade smelled gunpowder during the events. Smoke rose upwards from the fence area atop the Grassy Knoll, and would not have reached them. However, the passing of the first car in the motorcade would suck air and smoke out of the sewer hole and along the route of the motorcade. A shot from the Grassy Knoll would have reached JFK's head at a downward angle, exiting from the base of his skull, and driving him down into the seat as it sent him backwards. A close examination of his reaction in both Zapruder and Nix films shows that he rises up from the seat as he is thrown back at over 100 mph. The fatal shot blew out the upper right portion of his skull. Both are consistent with a shot from below. Brain matter and skull fragments explode upwards and travel back and to the left with great velocity at the moment of impact. Jackie later revealed that she picked up a portion of skull on the left rear of the car behind her seat, before being pushed back in by Clint Hill. A portion of skull was found near the curb on the south side of Elm, nearly 30 feet behind the position of the car at the point of the fatal shot and across the street. Officer Billy Hargis was riding his motorcycle to the left rear of JFK's limousine and witnessed the head shot. He was quoted in the Warren Commission testimony saying that he was hit so hard with a skull fragment through his leather jacket that he thought he had been hit by a bullet. He looked down to see he was covered with blood, stopped and got off his motorcycle, and said "Am I hit?" He later parked the motorcycle over the opening of the sewer and ran up the Grassy Knoll with other witnesses. Quoted in the Dallas Morning News on the 30th anniversary of the assassination, Hargis recalled the event and said the brain and blood matter arced up and came down on him. Again, all this is more consistent with a shot from below and to the front. The storm sewer is a good hidden location, one that a military sniper would choose. Penn Jones crawled through the pipes and discovered that going west along Elm leads to the vertical pipe that opens behind the Grassy Knoll fence near the overpass, and going across Elm and to the east leads to a grate in the basement of the Dallas jail. He yelled out when he got there, but no one responded. The sewer shot was rarely mentioned by researchers or the public after Lane focused on the Grassy Knoll, but a few of us kept seeking the evidence. Subsequent "tell all" books by alleged participants usually repeat the standard locations, the TSBD window or the Grassy Knoll, for verisimilitude. A book published in the 1990's, long after it would have been fashionable to lie about the sewer location, titled Treason is My Daily Bread, by Mikhail Ledbedev, reveals his role in a plot involving Nazi intelligent agent Reinhard Gehlen to kill Kennedy in Dallas, and mentions that he was sent to shoot from the storm sewer. He may be covering for the real assassin in this, but by picking the sewer location he adds credibility to his account in my view. There are many other indications that Gehlen and his cold war spy network that formed our CIA were part of the JFK assassination conspiracy. In the end though, it does not matter exactly where the shots came from or who fired them, even. None of that leads us back to the plotters, but the patsy Oswald does. Focusing endlessly on Dealey Plaza will never solve the crime. The bullets came from the Pentagon, no matter what direction they took. John Judge http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/sewerShot.html Russ Files: Dealey Plaza Conspiracy Witnesses Report SCA..1979.. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/hscawtns.htm Alphabetical list of witnesses and testimony.... http://jfkassassination.net/russ/wit.htm There may be other areas I do not know of, that have been researched or reported, this information may help you..and others.....whether there were shooters in each and everyone of these areas , and if they actually fired, ? I do not know... Below there is also a photo of a view to Zapruder and Sitzman, from the fence... ************************************* John Dolva: and others, you may be interested in this Report from W.Anthony Marsh.. Circumstantial Evidence of a Head Shot From The Grassy Knoll © - Copyright 1993 by W. Anthony Marsh Presented at The Third Decade conference June 18-20, 1993 As much as we would like to have direct evidence of a head shot from the grassy knoll, such evidence may be missing, inconclusive, or suspect. However, there may be a body of circumstantial evidence which would indicate that the fatal shot which struck President Kennedy's head at Z-313 came from the grassy knoll. This paper will not present conclusive proof of a head shot from the grassy knoll, but it will cite examples of circumstantial evidence which strongly suggest that the head shot came from the grassy knoll. Some of the examples are well known, but need to be reexamined. The Zapruder film is the most well-known evidence of the head shot. Various studies and interpretations of it have been made. Some studies, such as the one done by Itek, have analyzed the movement of President Kennedy's head around the time of the head shot. They note that President Kennedy's head moves forward significantly from Z-312 to Z-313 and cite that as proof of a shot hitting the head from behind. What they and everyone else has failed to do is analyze the movements of all the occupants of the rear compartment of the limousine, including the Connallys. That is what I have done. My analysis of the movements of the Kennedys and the Connallys is not, unfortunately, based on the same reproductions of the Zapruder film as used in other studies, due to cost considerations. I made measurements in 1/60th of an inch increments on a photocopy set of prints from Zapruder frames 312 to 321, as reproduced by Robert Cutler in his dividend to The Grassy Knoll Gazette of X-79. Bob's reference line is drawn through the center of the window knob. I made all measurements starting at the front edge of his reference line. However, I noticed that the distance from the reference line to the rollbar is not constant. This means that we can not use unadjusted measurements from these prints to calculate precise positions, but can estimate relative movements. This may be due to a variety of factors, such as variations in printing and copying each frame, changes in perspective, mismeasurements, or blurring. Some Zapruder frames are too blurred to allow accurate measurements. Each measurement of Nellie Connally's position is to the front edge of her hair. Each measurement of John Connally's position is to the front edge of his forehead. Each measurement of Jackie Kennedy's position is to the front edge of her pillbox hat. Each measurement of JFK's position is to the edge of his hair at the rear of his head. All measurements were lined up against the chrome strip in the background for better contrast. Be sure to remember that increasing measurements for the Connallys represent forward motion, while increasing measurements for the Kennedys represent rearward motion. Notice the direction and amount of movement of each person listed in Figure 1. Between Z-312 and Z-313, all the occupants of the rear compartment of the limo moved forward by about the same amount. Unless all four were hit by bullets (a practical impossibility), their forward movement must be caused by something else. The most likely cause is inertia due to the limousine having suddenly slowed down. Dr. Luis Alvarez noted in his study [1] that the average velocity of the limousine going down Elm Street sharply decreased just before the head shot. Some researchers have theorized that Secret Service agent Bill Greer jammed on the brakes or took his foot off the accelerator. Whatever he did, the limousine very quickly changed from an average velocity of about 12 MPH to about 8 MPH just before the head shot. Obeying the law of inertia, passengers in the limo were thrust forward in relation to their previous positions in the limousine. Further evidence of this effect is the fact that the Connallys continued to move forward while President Kennedy was being thrust backwards. I have not done a similar analysis of previous Zapruder frames to pinpoint the start of the occupants' forward movement, so I would urge others to do so themselves, in order to verify my results and observations. Figure 1. Z-frame rollbar Nellie Connally Jackie JFK ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ x/60" Z312 136 106 77 44 159 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ difference 9 forward 5 forward 10 forward 6 forward 7 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ Z313 145 111 87 38 152 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ difference 2 forward 2 forward 1 rearward 1 forward 1 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ Z314 147 113 88 39 151 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ difference 4 0 forward 4 forward 6 rearward 6 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ Z315 151 113 92 33 157 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ difference 3 forward 2 forward 1 rearward 1 rearward 9 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ Z316 148 115 93 34 166 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ difference 2 forward 2 forward 7 forward 4 rearward 11 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ Z317 150 117 100 30 177 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ difference 3 forward 5 forward 2 rearward 5 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ Z319 153 122 NA 28 182 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ difference 0 forward 4 forward 3 rearward 14 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ Z320 153 126 130 25 196 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ difference 4 rearward 1 forward 1 ----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ Z321 157 NA NA 26 195 Perhaps the most controversial evidence produced by the House Select Committee on Assassinations would be the acoustical studies. In my opinion, the conclusion that there was a conspiracy should not rest entirely on the acoustical studies. But the acoustical studies are useful for establishing the time between shots. All times are measured in seconds after the microphone became stuck open for several minutes. BBN found 4 shots on the tape, 3 of which came from the TSBD at 137.70, 139.27, and 145.61 respectively. The grassy knoll shot was found by Weiss and Aschkenasy to be recorded at 144.90. There was a fifth set of impulses which was rejected by HSCA as being a false alarm at 140.32. I have looked at the waveforms more closely to try to determine when the muzzle blast of each shot was recorded, to a greater degree of accuracy. My best estimate for each shot is 137.702, 139.268, 140.339, 144.895, and 145.608. You can get a general idea of the spacing between shots by subtracting one time from another. But there is an additional variable which must be taken into account. BBN found that the recorder used that day was running about 5% slow, so all times must be multiplied by about 1.05 in order to restore the original spacing. A more accurate correction factor might be borrowed from the work which W&A did on the grassy knoll shot. They found that a correction factor of 1.043 produced the best fit for echo delays compared to their predicted model. Another possible corroboration for the 1.043 correction factor is the 'bell' sound found by BBN at 152.5. Although Todd Vaughan believes that it is only electrical interference, if we can determine its true frequency, we can derive the most accurate correction factor. That holds true for many other sounds on the tape, such as car horns, tire squeals, police sirens, etc. BBN found that the 'bell' sound had a nominal pitch of 420 Hz. This is close to the note A, which is usually 440 Hz. If the sound is really a bell, it might have been tuned to A=440. We do not know for sure what type of bell it was. Most people have assumed that it is a carillon bell, but it could be a train bell, a ship's bell, or a victory bell on a college campus. There are a couple of other possible tunings which would produce a correction factor close to 1.043. If the bell had been tuned using a mean-tone temperament scale, it might have a real pitch of 438.075 Hz. Dividing that by 420 would give us a correction factor of 1.0430357. If the bell had been tuned to an old English standard of A=438.9, dividing that by 420 would give us a correction factor of 1.045. Applying the correction factor to the spacing between shots as found by BBN will give us the true spacing between muzzle blasts picked up by McLain's cycle. If we want to then translate those into Zapruder frames, we must multiply each interval by 18.3 frames. Figure 2 is a rough approximation of how many frames there were between all 5 muzzle blasts. Matching these times to the Zapruder film is more complicated and depends on making several real-world assumptions such as the speed of the bullets. We can be fairly confident in ruling out the first three shots as matching the head shot at Z-313, as such a match would place the first shot after Z-255, when we can clearly see in Altgens 1-6 that President Kennedy and Governor Connally have already been hit. The HSCA matched the last shot with Z-313, because their medical evidence indicated that the head shot came from behind. My alternative matchup tests the idea that the head shot came from the grassy knoll. Figure 2. origin tape time spacing *1.043 *18.3 Z-frame Z-frame TSBD 137.702 162 176 > 1.566 1.633 29.89 TSBD 139.268 192 206 > 1.071 1.117 20.44 TSBD 140.339 212 226 > 4.556 4.752 86.96 Knoll 144.895 299 313 > 0.713 0.744 13.61 TSBD 145.608 313 327 The first problem we notice with the HSCA version is that the first shot is much too early. No other evidence supports a shot that early and clearly President Kennedy was not hit by a bullet close to that frame. The first shot was probably a miss. The HSCA places the hit to JFK's back at around Z190- 192. The problem with that is that we can see President Kennedy in the Zapruder film during the range Z-190 to Z-210. He does not yet appear to be reacting to being hit by a bullet. There is absolutely no indication that Governor Connally was struck by a bullet at about that time, nor at about Z- 210 to Z-212, if we accept the fifth shot which HSCA rejected. My matchup would indicate a hit to JFK's back somewhere in the range of Z-206 to Z-210, and a hit to Connally's back somewhere in the range of Z-226 to Z-230. I believe this is more consistent with previous studies of the Zapruder film and eyewitness testimony. If there is some way to prove exactly when either President Kennedy or Governor Connally received their back wounds, that would force us to choose between the HSCA version and mine, regardless of other evidence. Just as Altgens 1-6 helps us eliminate the first three shots as matches with Z-313, it may also help us eliminate the last shot from the TSBD as matching Z-313. Everyone is familiar with the fact that CE350 shows a crack on the windshield and that it is not seen in Altgens 1-6, but is seen in Altgens 1-7. There has been some doubt about which shot from which direction caused that crack. I believe that I am the first person to notice something in CE350 which would resolve the doubt. If you look carefully at CE350, you will notice that the back of the rearview mirror is dented, but you can see that it was not dented in Altgens 1-6. This damage was caused by a bullet fragment which struck the windshield from the inside and ricochetted into the rearview mirror. Many people believe this fragment came from the head shot, which would been fired from the TSBD. I tend to feel that all the damage to the limousine, consisting of the crack in the windshield, dented rearview mirror and dented chrome topping, was done by the same shot. If we can find evidence which pinpoints when that damage was done, we may be able to show that it came several frames after Z-313. Photographic enhancement of the Zapruder film, Muchmore film or the Bronson film might reveal that the windshield was not cracked by Z-314. If that turns out to be true, then the last shot from the TSBD must have missed JFK's head and hit the windshield. In turn, that would mean that the fatal head shot came from the grassy knoll. I seriously doubt that there is any photograph which would show exactly when the rearview mirror was dented, but perhaps some as-yet-undiscovered photograph would show when the chrome topping was dented. That dent could only have been caused by a shot from behind the limo. If it was undented at Z-314, that would prove that the head shot came from the grassy knoll. Another factor which might influence our choosing the HSCA version or mine would be the jiggle analysis of the Zapruder film. Even the HSCA admitted that the jiggle analysis matched better when the grassy knoll shot was lined up with Z-313. [2] Figure 3 compares the timing of the impulses to the Zapruder film. The HSCA rejected the shot which is indicated in brackets as being too fast for Oswald to have fired. The jiggle analysis measured the amount of panning error by Zapruder. To simply and clarify, I have put the groups into ascending order. The group with the largest amount of blur is marked 'A', the second largest 'B', etc. I have chosen the Hartmann figures to be representative, as his are usually midway between Alvarez or Scott's figures. Zapruder's camera ran at 18.3 frames per second on average. Figure 3. Two comparisons of jiggle analysis to acoustical data Frames Group 158-159 D 191-197 B Note that the start of a jiggle group may not 227 C coincide with the firing or impact of a bullet. 290-291 E In most cases, it takes several frames before 313-318 A1 Zapruder reacts to a stimulus. 331-332 A2 HSCA Z-# hit? origin jiggle Marsh Z-# hit? origin jiggle 137.70 161 miss TSBD D 137.702 179 miss TSBD VI#1 B 139.27 191 JFK/JBC TSBD B 139.268 209 JFK TSBD VI#1 [140.32] 140.339 230 Connally TSBD VI#10 C 144.90 297 miss knoll E 144.895 312.6 JFK knoll A1 145.61 312 JFK TSBD A1 145.608 328 Connally TSBD VI#1 A2 The jiggle analysis can not be used as absolute proof of when a shot occurred, but it matches up better for the head shot from the grassy knoll. Could eyewitness testimony help resolve the question of which shot hit what? Secret Service agent Clint Hill testified (2H144) that the last shot he heard sounded as though it had hit some metal place. If he in fact had heard the last shot from the TSBD hit the chrome topping, that would not, in and of itself, prove that the TSBD shot missed JFK's head, as the dent could have been caused by a fragment from the head shot. But it would narrow the range during which the chrome topping was dented to between Z-313 to Z-331 and make it more likely that the chrome topping was dented at the same time that the windshield was cracked, rather than much earlier as some have speculated. On pages 126-129 of Six Seconds in Dallas, Josiah Thompson cites the statements of several witnesses who thought that a shot came from the grassy knoll. William Newman felt that he and his family were in the direct path of gunfire. Given their position, it seems more likely that the head shot came from behind the fence on the grassy knoll than from the TSBD. Emmett Hudson, who was standing on the steps leading up to the pergola, said that the shots sounded as if they came from behind him, above his head and to his left. That would place the origin near the fence. Zapruder felt that the head shot had come from behind him and whistled past his right ear. Between these two witnesses and behind them is the corner of the fence. W&A found a probable shockwave at 24 ms. before the muzzle blast of the grassy knoll shot. Assuming the weapon was aimed at the limousine, we can make a rough calculation of the velocity of the bullet and the resultant angle of the shockwave. Although the calculation for the decay of the shockwave is too difficult for me, a rough calculation yielded an exit velocity of the bullet at about 1564.5 fps. This would create a shockwave of at least 45 degrees on either side of the flightpath of the bullet. All three witnesses were within the cone of that shockwave and would have felt it very strongly. How can we know whether the weapon was aimed at the limousine? If it had been aimed in some opposite direction, the open microphone would have been outside the cone of the shockwave and thus the shockwave would not have been recorded. Another indication of where the weapon was aimed can be found in the statement that Sam Holland made to Josiah Thompson when he was shown a very clear copy of the Moorman 2 Polaroid. He felt that the viewpoint was looking right down the barrel of the gun. Given Mary Moorman's position, the gun would have been aimed at the limousine. In Moorman 2 we can see the head of a man peering over the fence, about 9 feet from the corner. Interestingly, this is the same spot where W&A located the origin of the grassy knoll shot, unaware of the existence of Moorman 2. In Moorman 2 we do not see a side view of any weapon as we might expect if it was not aimed at the limo. Whoever this man was, he moved from that position very quickly after the head shot. There is no one there in later Zapruder frames or in the Stoughton photograph, taken shortly after the head shot. The Stoughton photograph has never been analyzed. The Warren Commission and the House Committee were unaware of its existence. I believe that no one had ever studied it before I found it at the JFK Library. Unfortunately, I do not have the resources to properly analyze it and obviously the government will not, as it might reveal the presence of a gunman on the grassy knoll. One independent researcher, Dale Meyers, has done some computer analysis which suggests that there is a person behind the fence, several feet to the right of the corner. Many witnesses can be seen reacting to the shots in various films. Some fell to the ground very quickly while others did not seem to realize the danger. We would expect those witnesses closest to the gun on the grassy knoll to react very quickly and dramatically to the shockwave whizzing past them from the grassy knoll. One of the best films to observe their reactions was taken by Marie Muchmore. In Muchmore frame 42 we can see Hudson and his two companions on the steps leading up to the pergola. They do not seem to be reacting to any gunshots. In frame 55 we can see that two of the men are reacting. It seems inconceivable that these men would not have reacted to the sound of a shockwave coming from so close behind them. If the grassy knoll shot was the miss before the head shot, we would expect to see these men react before the head shot. The fact that they did not react until after the head shot would seem to indicate that the head shot came from the grassy knoll. Based on the circumstantial evidence we have now, I believe it is more likely that the head shot came from the grassy knoll. Existing evidence can and should be examined further. More information can be gleaned from existing data by novel analyses. The release of withheld data could provide new clues and allow us to verify certain methods, such as the acoustical studies. I urge other researchers to look for new evidence and perform new analyses. ------ 1. W. Peter Trower, ed., "Discovering Alvarez", (Chicago: The University Press, 1987), pp. 210-224. Also HSCA Vol. I, pp. 428-442. 2. House Select Committee on Assassinations, Report, p.80, footnote 16. ..Thanks for your time.... B

Hello Ashton, Your welcome as all are, if I have anything that may possibley help in anyway... It was the cement wall to the right of the steps, some call the BDogM area, not the fence, I think that may be too high, in your re-creation..when compared with the photos.? There also was a RRman, seen in the yard...before, and after I do believe...such as could be seen within the Badgeman photo, to the side of the rifleman...Bowers was not the only one who mentions him. But, ? it is somewhere in the witnesses statements...could have been the one seen eventually by Ed Hoffman, who broke down a rifle, and loaded it into the RRBox, at the extreme North end of the fence by the underpass...picked up his tool box and walked away over the railroad tracks ... And was it Jesse Price ? who was on the roof of the Post Office , and worked there that saw a young man run from the area of where hat man has been seen in the Nix film, with something in his hand, he ran over the tracks, and down towards in the direction of the back of the TSBD.. Re your re-creation, I have never noted that anything but the hat was seen, moving and then disappearing within the Nix film.? Also there was only one that I can recall now, perhaps Jack will help with details, he may recall...when Jean Hill proceeded to the top of the steps, and beyond to the parking lot, she saw a DPM, to her right holding a rifle...towards that end of the fence...where Badgeman is seen. I think that was mentioned ? Below, I copied verbatim from Mark Lanes tape, ."Rush to Judgement: note SS Forrest Sorrels info that Nix also mentions.. Mark Lane: "Mr.Nix .Where were you on November 22nd ?.." Orville Nix: "I was standing on the corner of Main and Houston "..(Sts). Mark Lane: "And did you take any pictures of the Presidental Limousine as it went through Dealey Plaza ?.." Orville Nix: "Yes, I had taken pictures before and after --before and during the assassination ".. Mark Lane: "And you know of course that your pictures were used by the Government to determine where the limousine was when some of the shots were fired ?".. Orville Nix: "Yes ".. Mark Lane:"And did you deliver a copy of your film to the Federal Government ?".. Orville Nix:"Yes, I delivered a copy of my film to the Federal Government about December 1st ".. Mark Lane:"About a little over a week after the assassination ?".. Orville Nix:"Yes, my film got lost in the processing plant !".. Mark Lane: "Where is the original film ?".. Orville Nix: "The original film --uh--belonged to United Press International .The Government has a duplicate copy ".. Mark Lane: " Where is that copy ?".. Orville Nix: " In the Archives".. Mark Lane:"And is that the duplicate copy which was used by the Warren Commission determining along with other films, the Muchmore film and the Zapruder film where the Presidential limousine was when some of the shots were fired ?".. Orville Nix: "I would say so".. Mark Lane: "Well you now have a copy, of your film which you were kind enough to show to us this afternoon .Is that copy the same as the original that you gave to the FBI on December 1st ?".. Orville Nix: " I would say, No--- there is some films maybe missing---some --uh--frames--uh--some of the frames were ruined ".. Mark Lane :"Does the film which you have at the present time ,have the same number of frames as the film that you delivered to the FBI on December 1st ?".. Orville Nix: "--uh--I would say No--but its' cause of loosing maybe a --uh--frame --uh--here and there ".. Mark Lane :" At the time of the shots were fired ,did you look at the Book Depository building ?".. Orville Nix :" No".. Mark Lane : " Did you think ,at that time ,that the shots came from the Book Depository ?".. Orville Nix : "No, I thought it came from a fence --uh--between the Book Depository and the Railroad Track".. Mark Lane:"--uh--Did anyone else ,who you know, that you've spoken with ,also believe that the shots came from there ".. Orville Nix: " Most everyone thought it came from the fence behind the Book Depository ".. Mark Lane :"Did you have the occasion to speak with Forrest Sorrels ---who is of course a friend of yours ,and is the Secret Service agent in charge of Dallas that day ?".. Orville Nix:" Yes, I did ".. Mark Lane : "Did he tell you where the thought the shots came from ?".. Orville Nix : " He thought they came from the same place".. Mark Lane : " Which is ?".. Orville Nix: "Behind the fence".. Mark Lane : " At the present time where do you believe the shots came from ?".. Orville Nix : " Well they came from the Book Depository because there's proof it did come from there ".. Mark Lane :" I see---and this you've read in Newspapers and you've read the Report ?".. Orville Nix :" Yes,--er-- I believe the Warren Report".. *****************************************end of his interview on tape**** I do think that re Police Dept officers, are they not trained, in the reverbration of the sound of shots? and the knowledge of the direction of where they are coming from .Was it Motorcycle Officer Hargis,? that dropped his bike and can be seen standing looking over the fence in Cabluck's photo, he was the first to reach that North end of the fence overpass..I believe he mentions, to him it sounded as though it came from that direction. I do believe there were simply too many people, in the area further down Elm, as well as in the immediate area, who saw and ducked as shots came over their heads, and or towards them, as Mary Moorman relates and they felt for safetys sake they needed to get down on the ground....all cannot be in error....only after that did the Motorcyclist park his bike and run up the hill...not before, and not all followed him immediately, some did within a pause seemingly after the shots ceased, and yes they did eventually follow him...and some, ran up the steps to the parking lot, not all, you can see within the photos, some people did not follow...and we must I think keep in mind, this was all within seconds, not minutes, this took place and was over very quickly....so I personally do not see the actions of lemmings, if so then why did not everyone from the Elm & Houston corner also run, in that direction ? Perhaps because there were shots from different shooters in different spots, and others heard what they took to be shots from other buildings and or areas..... I don't believe they would put all their eggs in one basket..this was no fly in that day, event.....by second rate shooters....nothing it appears was second rate.....they would not limit themselves to only one shooter, imo, in case he missed, and or something went wrong within his spot....there had to be more than one or two, IMO..JFK was not going to leave Dealey Plaza..alive.. One problem that has always been a bug bear imo, within the research, is that the witness statements of the people who were there and did see the reactions to and by JFK, of the hits to his head, is not and cannot be complied to what is seen within the same areas of the Zapruder film......? Therefore ?? I have also read that in a court of law, the witness testimony is taken over any photographic evidence, but that could have been in error, as I simply do not know, for sure...and or changed by now.. When you state that all has been and is, words to the effect, completely screwed up, I agree whole heartedly, and that is the way, they presented all and do so deliberatley, and today as well...... We must I believe keep in mind what we have be told many times, the Government only releases what they want you to see and hear......nothing more......and in their own good time, which makes it all the more difficult to discern between facts and fiction and altered information......and as a result here we are 43 years later, still trying to thrash it out.. Your work in the re-creations are well done, and like say a detective you are creating what you believe to be plausibe scenarios and then persue what could be theories associated with such perhaps, in searching for the truth...but only by looking at all imo, can that hopefully be accomplished.......if possible at this late date....please carry on. Thanks B..

The amount of smoke is almost too large for a normal gunshot, IMO and so maybe Ashton is on to something that the puff was to distract attention - magician style....although I also am inclined to believe some shot or dart or something was headed from near the fence toward Kennedy's neck or head.......the people who planned this assassination obviously thought through every possible thing and how to counter it being discovered or to mask it with a decoy / diversion / etc. I'lve always felt that just about every building and both N. and S. Knoll had shooters....but they all didn't fire....it was only as needed directed from some script or some command post. ***************************** Hello Peter: I do not know of rifles nor weapons, but have read that a rifle producing such smoke could have meant that someone had forgotten to Lightly oil their weapon..as Oily barrels can produce huge plumes of smoke....FWIW.. B.

Hi Ter: That I agree with...J.R's great research, he was a friend to many, all you had to do was ask.. As well as the Parkland trauma team's findings..a blow out to the back of the head...they were the first trained medical witnesses, as well as Hill and others who saw such...but which upon the bodys arrival at Bethesda, though it was also seen, it had become much larger in size..according to witnesses.....Though you would never know it by the autopsy photos, or the Bethesda Doctor's reports..imo ...nothing is in stone in the JFK assn...it should have been from the beginning but.....and it all changes according to whomever's latest whims at times. B.. **************** Ashton, Here's another for you.. This is the area where Sam Holland and the RR men, ran to, saw the footprints and saw the smoke drift out, from under the trees.....it is now called the Hatman area..a possible spot from where a shot came from. His head, does appear, move and disappear......in gifs of the film, Nix I believe, there is movement..I cannot post any Gifs... But this will show you the approximate area....behind the fence, another for you to contemplate. This is all I can fit in for now..... B.. THe photo below written where the smoke came from, is part of Bill Miller's reasearch in this area.

Hello Ashton: I posted the wrong County Courts photo last evening...this below show all..dated 11-14-64. I doubt that anyone has made up their mind completely, in anything let alone where the shots came from, many have done great research in the areas of where the possibilities could be..we trudge along. Nothing is written in stone, in the JFK assassination..as we never know what tomorrow may unveil, then must be researched further to come to a finding of whether true or false..neverendingstory.. I have been looking at your Badge man location, your wall, I am thinking is too high ?, I will show the possible why below.. one is taken when the old fence still remained..the other is newer, but perhaps you will see what I mean....... Also some time, in later years through heavy rains, the knoll suffered damage and suffered a mud slide of sorts, and all had to be repaired...and rebuilt, in some areas. I think it very possible that at that time that area could have been enforced, shifted to some degree higher ? and perhaps this could be the reason. I believe Gerry Dealey could inform you of all, I believe he was the man who informed me, some time ago. I enjoy your research, as you make us think.......about the many possibilities, and imo that should never end. As you may recall I also wonder of the possibility of a shot from the corner of the fence, nearest the underpass..? I am also posting a scan, from where now ?? of a possible shot scenario, one being from the County Courts it may help in some way...in perspective..... I have run out of photo space, will return with the area where Sam Holland believed the smoke came from.....will delete some... Please continue... B

************** Ashton: Peter has some good points here...and I think you may be forgetting the shade on the Tower side of the fence at that time of the day.....below you will find one taken from the Tower, a few years later, and how relative the shadows would have been.. Also in Mark Lane's video, he interviews Sam Holland, and they proceed to the area where he and his fellow RR employees saw the smoke drift out from , in 1967...at that time of the afternoon, .........and those little trees were not so small..the shade was quite dense, which can be seen as they stand there... Also a photo of the parking lot take after, you will be able to see the density somewhat.... I haven't a clue after all this if you ever received a photo, of the Courts building....showing the view right on, nor the size of the trees in that area or such, one below was taken in 1964.. For whomever's interest... Good thread, carry on as they say......

Trouble posting, double.....the F seems very slow.?? one with the photos one without.....?? Put them together in your minds eye.... See below.......?

QUOTE: Dallas Police dispatches at 1:23 and 1:32 stated, "...wearing a white jacket, white shirt and dark slacks." A police dispatch at 1:46 states, "...suppose to be hiding in the balcony ." As police converged on the theater they were directed to the balcony by Julia Postal. As officers were questioning patrons in the balcony, Barrett, Westbrook, McDonald, Hutson, Hawkins, and Walker entered the theater from the alley. As Lt. Cunningham, Det. Taylor and Det. Toney began questioning a young man in the balcony they heard someone shout 'here he is" from the lower level. Police in the balcony descended to the lower level to assist in the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald. The arrest occurred about 1:50 pm. Oswald was the transported to DPD headquarters acompanied by five Dallas police officers--Detective Bob Carroll, Sergeant Gerald Hill, Detective K.E. Lyons, Charles T. Walker and Detective Paul Bentley..

..Tippit murder...

Back of Theatre...stairs to balcony ...Julia Postal, tickets......Theatre Nov.23/63 and Johnny Brewer..

L.H.O arrest in the Texas Theatre....in the balcony...is what the documents report..

"Breach of Trust" Gerald D.McKnight 2005 The story that Robert Kennedy had denied the WC the autopsy and X-ray photos Was a lie….also the mention that the Kennedy family did not want them shown at the hearings….as Specter had told to Humes and Finck, which they did pass along in their appearance before the ARRB …… Specter knew the stories were bogus….he in an Apr 64 memo to Chief Council Rankin, urged him to obtain them, he knew the Ryberg medical illustrations could not substitute for the forensic evidence..He had learned and mentioned that SS inspector Thomas J. Kelley that the AT “ wanted to be satisfied that they were really necessary”..he did not hear back from Rankin, and wrote again, for staff access to such..he knew that Rankin expected to wrap up the WC in June. (1). At the time Specter was not privy to the fact that the WC, Rankin, had the autopsy photos, as well as the X-rays they had kept this information from the assistant councils and staff. Most of the Commissioners being lawyers, knew the solid rules of evidence but chose to sit through the testimony in which their key witnesses were denied “the best medicolegal evidence”........just as they had refused to raise an eyebrow when Humes spoke of burning the autopsy records (2)… Several years later Commissioner McCloy appeared on CBS’s “Face the Nation”..they discussed that day in Dallas and he stated…””for the sake of completion “”,”” they had not looked at the late president’s autopsy X-rays and photographs..””..he told millions of Sunday viewers ,”” We were perhaps a little over sentitive,”” to the wishes of the Kennedy family, who”” were against the production of colored photographs of the body and so forth..””…He struck the right pose of repentance, and then McCloy went on to tell the TV audience …”that even without reviewing the autopsy pictures the Commission had “..”” the best evidence ( on the autopsy) in the sworn testimony of the doctor".. Page 171.. Notes: on page 412.. (1)..Arlen Specter to J.Lee Rankin..April 30/64..Warren CD 10079, NA,Washington.DC..,1-2 “Specter to Rankin, 11,12/64,J.Lee Rankin Papers,box 37 folder 473,NARA.. (2)..When John McCloy asked about the “raw material for the autopsy….the colored photographs of the President’s body …..do we have these?”.. Rankin acknowledged that they had the “raw materials” photos,and X-rays. See WC Jan.21/64, executive session transcript ,NARA, 35. Two years after the Commission submitted it’s final report on the assassination ,former assistant counsels W.David Slawson and Norman Redlich reported to Burke Marshall that the Commission had NOT seen the X-rays and the autopsy photos ..See W.David Slawson to file ,10/7/1966,Dept of Justice ,Criminal Division, file 129-11.1-2. (3)..McCloy’s Face the Nation comments can be found in FBI clipping of the Washington Capital News Service ,7/6/1967..FBIHQ Liaison with Commission File 62-109090-601.. McCloy’s continued exercise in blaming the Kennedy’s for withholding crucial evidence was part of the FBI’s campaign, to cover up it’s further embarrassing failure to not get a copy of the autopsy report before submitting its report CD 1..on the assassination to the Commission..These lies,misinformation and blaming the victim’s family, was so unpalatable to even J.Edgar Hoover…that he noted on an FBI memo ..”The confusion…would never have occurred if we had obtained the autopsy report originally. The Kennedys never asked us to withhold it and if they had we should have disgarded it.” Notes: notes page 412, Rosen to DeLoach ,12/7/66..FBIHQ,JFK assn file,62-109060..4235.. Also J.Stanley Rotz..to SAC ,Baltimore,10/18/66..Main Baltimore JFK Assn File..89-30-268: 89-30-262 and 267..

Lee: That is not Greer nor Connally, hope you got out... That is correct the shadows......tell all.... ...B

Bernice, regarding the top photo: Is this photo from an official reenactment. Can you point us to the source? Thanks ****************************** Hi Raymond: From The Saturday Evening Post's line of fire.........By Ben.H.Bagdikin....you will note they say from the window where the killer lay in wait... and a crop from the Altgen's ( lightened ) showing the Dal Tex second floor windows.. ************************* Ashton, your very welcome.. B..

Hi Ashton, are these of any help to you....? B..