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Everything posted by Larry Hancock
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State of the JFK Document Releases 2021
Larry Hancock replied to Larry Hancock's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
I think its pretty clear now that JFK did not know that an assassination program had been reactivated under Mongoose and certainly not that Helms allowed it to proceed well into 1963. On the other hand certainly some of the programs such as AMWORLD and AMTRUNK did allow talk and planning to continue in regard to Cuban only assassination efforts and its hard to think RFK was not aware of that - but it was not the same type of CIA driven/asset based approach as in the earlier projects and not directly funded as the first poison efforts were. It really easy to come up with a number of different plots, much talk and many proposals about assassinating Castro - but as far as the administration was concerned by the summer of 1963 that was something the Cubans were going to have to do with a coup or some sort of internal effort - hence AMTRUNK and AMLASH. Its probably most relevant that by November Castro was warning JFK directly and publicly about assassination efforts against himself but more specifically that the anti-Castro exiles might turn on JFK himself. -
State of the JFK Document Releases 2021
Larry Hancock replied to Larry Hancock's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Thanks Ty, I wanted to make sure everyone got the background on the comparison between the two sets of releases so I started further up the thread....as you say, that link takes you direct to the current release update. I just wish there was more there to see. -
State of the JFK Document Releases 2021
Larry Hancock replied to Larry Hancock's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Kirk, there are problem a number of people who have not followed the dialog about Lamar's theory over the years, his book and scenario was based on his understanding of AMWORLD. Actually he and I were both working on AMWORLD before he released his book and talked a good bit before and after its release. Unfortunately his early perspective of the material was simply incorrect and given additional records and a great bit more research I think its possible to unequivocally state that there was no such invasion in the works - in fact it would be counter to just about everything we know was going on at the time, including the start of JFK's negotiations with Castro (which both parties were very serious about) which would have gotten underway in December. You would have to dig into AMTRUNK and AMWHIP and into AMWORLD in detail to see how I can support that statement, as well as the new Commandos Mambises effort that did get underway in the fall, to fully appreciate the story and the chaos of the period. It is true that JFK had directed the military to take over covert operations against Cuba and to develop a worst case contingency plan for accelerated military pressure (we have lots of documentation on that JCS activity) but that effort was only in the planning stages with no effort at all to begin staging military assets for any large scale action in January. Its one of those scenarios that just did not survive the research in later years, but both Jim D and I have looked at it repeatedly and with our much deeper knowledge of what was going on in regard to Cuba it simply does not match the invasion scenario in Lamar's book. -
State of the JFK Document Releases 2021
Larry Hancock replied to Larry Hancock's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
I've always felt that the Manchester interviews represented a really significant opportunity so that is definitely depressing. On the other hand the Pena information represents a very real window into Oswald circa New Orleans that does not get nearly the attention it deserves - Weisberg's volume on Oswald in New Orleans is really a blockbuster on that. -
Rex Bradford has done an outstanding job of addressing the new releases via the Mary Ferrell Foundation site. You may find the material, his reviews and assessments here: https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_of_JFK_Releases_2021.html Even if you don't intend to dig into the documents themselves, his commentary on the this releases as compared to the previous ones - as well as the state of the records at NARA is important reading.
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John Armstrong on Black Op Radio tonight
Larry Hancock replied to Jim Hargrove's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
David, that's about 15 years behind me so I'll have to look for my notes....a task in itself. I'll post again if I can find them. -
John Armstrong on Black Op Radio tonight
Larry Hancock replied to Jim Hargrove's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Its certainly real and has been an outstanding issue for ages, my very first Lancer conference presentation in the 90s was on the packages that were sent to Oswald at the Paines and were either rejected or ended up as undelivered. The content of one package was as described above. The rest is speculation, but another interpretation might be that if it had been delivered, after the assassination the police would have found wrapping paper to match to a sack placed at the TSBD. That would have directly tied Oswald to preparing the sack, carrying the rifle to the building and pretty much wrapped up the case for premeditation. If Oswald had been a witting participant it seems like there should have been an easier way to get him the paper - on the other hand why in the world would the plotters be such cheapskates as to not put on even more than sufficient postage. To me this just has the feel of one more exercise to frame him without his participation. -
I'm glad Little Saint Nick got in...one of my favorites! And David, I recall Keith looking a lot younger...then again I did too....and I still can't play guitar...
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OK you all started it so the old guy is jumping in:
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JFK Revisited: Through The Looking Glass
Larry Hancock replied to Denny Zartman's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Thank you Sir, that definitely brings back memories....mostly good ones thankfully! -
JFK Revisited: Through The Looking Glass
Larry Hancock replied to Denny Zartman's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Extremely well said Ron, better than I could have expressed it. Its also embarrassingly childish - disagreements are one thing, differing opinions, fine....but this is just meaningless name calling, intended only to provoke an equally meaningless emotional response, its just "taunting". No dignity or honor involved at all. And to do it on a Christmas call on the Santa line, wow, hard to imagine anything lower. Thankfully this season proves that most people are much better than that... -
JFK Revisited: Through The Looking Glass
Larry Hancock replied to Denny Zartman's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
I pretty much wish Ron had not posted that, its about the saddest thing I've heard in some time - why someone would be compelled to insert a "f you" phrase into a Santa hotline call involving their child is a pitiful and embarrassing commentary. -
Just for context I do have to say that such contingency planning is a standard at the level of the Pentagon and at regional command levels. Its the sort of thing staff officers are requested to do on a regular basis...for all sorts of adversaries and contingencies. Its also pretty standard to come up with "provocation" options for situations where conventional military actions are part of the strategic planning. Not to get in the way of the conspiracy discussion but it certainly was not unique to Mongoose or for that matter for Cuba....and certainly not unique to worldwide militaries. Hitler used is quite successfully in Europe and Russia has done so in Ukraine and may well be preparing to do so again. Of course the thing is that it never fools anyone, but then its not really expected to, if it actually goes to the point of operational planning it is simply intended to serve as cover for the initial stage of combat.
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Documents released 12/15/21
Larry Hancock replied to Steve Thomas's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Sorry, no that's not what I meant to say or infer. My point was that I conclude that the CIA would have withheld information showing that there was a telephone impersonation of Oswald calling from the Cuban embassy (which the FBI appears to have discovered, even using "technical" resources). They would also have withheld any photographic evidence that showed that Oswald was not the individual at the Cuban consulate - which it also appears that they did. That would have been to conceal their own activities in an operation against the Cubans. Of course that could lead to other problems and other issues of obfuscation or alteration about Oswald being in Mexico or Mexico City. I was only commenting on what I think happened with the Cubans in Mexico City. However I do believe, that within 48 hours there were high level orders - from the White House - to suppress any leads that pointed to Oswald being in association with others and that made for even more chaos in manipulating records related to Mexico. That would have been in conjunction with the order to the FBI to write a report confirming Oswald as the lone assassin, acting with no association with others. How complex that could have gotten is pure speculation but I do recall Hosty telling me personally that his agent friends in MC had photos of Oswald during his time there - he did seem very sincere about that. Bottom line, events seem to have made Mexico the ultimate black hole for our research... -
Documents released 12/15/21
Larry Hancock replied to Steve Thomas's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
I don't think we will ever fully resolve the question of Oswald personally being in Mexico - or Mexico City. Certainly there is good reason to question that he was ever at the Cuban consulate. Is it possible the Russians totally lied about his visit to their facility - maybe. Could everything else about the trip including souvenirs have been planted, maybe, not sure of the point in that. Was there considerable evidence immediately after the fact for the agencies to be in chaos about his being there - absolutely. Does the trip make sense if he was trying to get Russian permission to return Marina - yes, that is consistent with his letters. In our upcoming paper on the Red Bird Leads David and I discuss one more reason that at least getting Oswald into Mexico if not to Mexico City was important to the some of the conspirators in terms of setting up a Cuban connection to the attack on the President, however aside that I don't pretend to know anything other than the official story of his visit, involving both Cuban and Russian contacts, is something the CIA desperately wanted to minimize - and I've written very specifically as to why that was and what operations it would have compromised. The official story is bogus, there is good reason to know even Hoover was quite aware of that. But specifically to this thread, the additional document which mentions Oswald traveling to Mexico, and offers a statement about his occupation, is also consistent and to me supports the idea that he was driven to others at least to the border. In regard to the scenario I favor that makes perfect sense and I can certainly see the FBI, the CIA and the WC eager to obfuscate any evidence Oswald was in involved with others only weeks before the assassination. I guess I'm not sure why we would want to dismiss that out of hand. -
I wasn't commenting about Lincoln Mercury and personally I see that as a totally separate incident - you will have to pursue that one with Greg. As far as the rest, extending this to the shooting, his behavior afterwards and the theater is also well beyond my comments. I'd also say Ruth might be a bit conflicted if at one point she says she was prepared to drive him to test for his license and at another says he had trouble turning into a driveway. As I said, I find Greg's line of thinking intriguing and it tackles a couple of problems that have long puzzled me - but that's my view and I'll leave it at that. Hopefully he will be posting further...
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Well one obvious answer would be that he personally didn't have a car, nor did he plan a "getaway" after the assassination since he didn't shoot the president. I don't see that as relevant to the possibility of his "borrowing" a familiar and available car (one which he had actually been driving while getting lessons from Ruth) while she was away....
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Documents released 12/15/21
Larry Hancock replied to Steve Thomas's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Steve, my view is that the imposter was at the Cuban consulate - it may well have been Oswald himself at the Russian embassy. I know some folks won't like that view as they don't want Oswald in Mexico at all. I'm open to the fact that he was taken to Mexico or at least the border by others and that what we see going on in Mexico City is a mix. What I'm absolutely convinced about is that the WC story and timeline for his activities related to Mexico is bogus, based on the FBI investigation which was both misled by CIA tampering in MC via the their Mexican political and police connections as well as by the marching orders the FBI was given to eliminate leads pointing towards Oswald and others ie. conspiracy. Of course those orders came a bit later than the telephone call with Hoover talking about an imposter and others - he had no idea at that point that the CIA was floundering around already trying to cover their connections to Oswald. -
Documents released 12/15/21
Larry Hancock replied to Steve Thomas's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Ron says it well, based on David's work including Jeff Morley its pretty clear that the CIA was hiding things about Mexico City even internally and certainly from the FBI as well. The FBI was led down a path via CIA connections with the Mexican Federal Police and Hoover learned that only after the fact but was forced to go along with that as with well as covering up many other leads which pointed towards a conspiracy - including the autopsy reports from his own agents. The picture of Mexico City and of Oswald in Mexico is truly a swamp, revealing much about the cover up and probably little about the conspiracy, much less the attack in Dallas. -
Documents released 12/15/21
Larry Hancock replied to Steve Thomas's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Steve, if you have the document or source on the Miami thing I'd like to look at it - certainly at that point in time there was a general directive out to FBI, CIA etc to disrupt and obstruct any missions against Cuba from US soil - seems like a less than subtle approach though. -
Documents released 12/15/21
Larry Hancock replied to Steve Thomas's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
What they could be trying to cover up might be simple, the CIA's use of an Oswald impersonator in counter intelligence activities with the Cubans in MC. Given their histories we know the CIA and FBI often covered up their activities from each other just as the CIA compartmentalized its activities within its own groups - for instance SAS using AMOT resources out of Miami very possibly was running an operation without informing other divisions or even its MC office (other than perhaps Phillips). And that might very well have been what Hoover was upset about in his note on the later memo we all know about in regard to not trusting the CIA even if you work with them. As to the tapes, the simplest answer would be that the CIA office in Mexico City (which itself seemed perplexed about the Oswald in question) sent up a tape and the FBI ran a signature comparison against the voice on it as compared to either a recording of Oswald taken from the news, from his appearance in New Orleans or from prior experience with him. Which would mean that the FBI and Hoover would immediately know there was a problem and likely an impersonation - what they would not immediately have known was that the impersonation itself had been conducted by the CIA...... If that were later revealed to Hoover, who hated not being all-knowing, you can bet it would have produced that remark about not trusting the CIA. I don't know how we could be sure but the the wording in the document seems to imply more than someone knowing Oswald listening to a tape. -
Documents released 12/15/21
Larry Hancock replied to Steve Thomas's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Steve, its just possible they could have done it with a frequency spectrum analysis if they had a voice recording of Oswald from any source to compare patterns....that might explain the reference to a technical operations source.