Paul Brancato

I will watch later today - thanks Leslie

Bill - one of our members - Matt Allison - says the Joannides files are not among the unreleased documents that the suit pertains to. Is that true?

Bipartisanship by omission

America first was not isolationist it was pro German. This is not my fantasy Matt.

Didn’t Gary Underhill work in a Luce connected job before his strange death?

And my point about isolationism or non interventionism was that it served as a convenient cover for The Fifth column in America. Bissell, Barnes, Dulles, and so many others, were entirely sympathetic with Germany. Is it such a stretch to say Bissell and Barnes and others were America firsters in the lead up to WW 2, but completely involved in interventions of the American kind later? maybe you might consider getting back to Jim’s original post. Maybe you think firing Dulles and Bissell was wrong headed. Is that the case!

Matt - did I misunderstand your original argument? Were you suggesting that the document you put forward suggests that Dulles was not an active participant in the dirty tricks of the time? To me the document simply says he wants to keep his name out of it, not that he disagrees. And what operation are we talking about? The murder of Lumumba? Were you not postulating that your document absolves Dulles of that?

Straw man arguments won’t work Matt.

A friend found a pic of the two of them at Yale in 1940 that he says proves the point. Your distinction, basically implying one could not be an America First member and an interventionist later, or even at the time, is very revealing. America First was against intervening against the Germans. That’s not too hard a concept. When Hitler’s true motives and purpose were revealed in full the isolationists lost influence. True it was a tough slog because Hitler Nazism Fascism had their fans. And after the war those same basic forces wrested power from the Roosevelt ‘socialists’ and never relinquished it. Dulles brothers, Bissell, the rest all on the same side. I’m not sure why you think that document proves otherwise, when all it really proves is Dulles wanting to protect his reputation at all costs, wanting plausible deniability.

And Bissell and Barnes were America Firsters

I don’t see how you one can draw a conclusion that Dulles was squeamish about Bissell and Barnes and 5412 plans from this quote.

I get it. Jim has you on ignore, and by my commenting here it unavoidably comes to his attention. I hope he doesn’t mind my response here. Does the movie shed light on Dulles being fired? That is the thrust of this thread. In my view of history the Dulles brothers are villains of the first order. What’s your view on them generally? I’ve read something about the Katanga ‘mutiny’. The movie is two hours long. Would you mind letting us know where the film maker discusses this? And if you know, could you tell us about the film maker?

I recall Mark Lane early on (1964) that he had interviewed DP witnesses who’d had their films taken and never returned.

I read that he made a deal and plead guilty in return. I’ve heard he’s in poor health. Hope he recovers. My first thought was that the next news on him would be about his death.