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The big question I have now (I know I'm way off topic) is whether the 'deep state' which to my mind controls the center of the Democratic Party, has lost control of the Republican right, and of Trump and his criminal gang in particular. When Bush and Romney start looking like good guys you gotta wonder. "
Paul I often find that you and I are in agreement about some of the greater issues behind the JFK Assassination, and our broad viewpoints are similarly humanistic.
I think it's better to PM you about this, because I notice people on this forum mention the "Deep State" but it seems to be a topic that no one here ever dares to explain. As if keeping it in the dark will somehow make us better able to deal with it. Nobody wants to bring it out in the open.
In that paragraph, you seem to have a very good idea what you think it is. Having conversations with you previously, I assume your definition is not say the Fox News definition. (but maybe it is) But you've lost me here.. What specifically are talking about that controls the center of the Democratic Party?.
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The American Empire, I thought you might say the MICC. But they are integral, you can't have one without the other. But If you just follow the money in campaign contributions , though the Democrats have been catching up in the last few decades. The Republicans still have a sizable edge in military procurement. Even some Tea Party reps are big on that. There is an intersection between the alt.right and the left concerning interventionism and the use of military power abroad. The left usually out of humanistic grounds, that the reason we usually get involved is to exploit others for our own ends, with the right, it's out of an isolationism basically saying it's their business, or let them "do whatever they will to each other."
I'm not sure why you singled the Dems out. I think the traditional roles still apply, The Republicans have always been the Defense party, and since they control all branches, we still are. I think the Dems, since Clinton have almost caught up to Repubs in that they are now equally as globalist but the alt right is running a Republican counter trend to that.
i see the confusion. I singled out centrist democrats because they have done a poor job for so long opposing the micc. The Republicans are not in opposition and don't pretend to be, though as you say there are points of conversion between the far right and the more liberal left. Senator Feinstein is a perfect example. While the Republicans move right, beginning with Goldwater actually, the Democrats move center even while their base, or their would be base if we had full voter access, moves left. Bernie Sanders carried a progressive message forward, even though he probably would have been a poor candidate. The center of the Democratic Party did their best to shoot him down, and Hilary Clinton, who I voted for, is still doing so. I haven't read her new book, but I would bet that she didn't really address voter disenfranchisement, which is the biggest problem we face. So basically I'm pissed with the Democrats who try to marginalize their left wing. We know how the CIA made a point of controlling the message and media by creating and supporting liberal media outlets. Do they still? Are Feinstein and Warner (who voted against Rand Paul in the recent attempt to have a new debate on foreign intervention) willing to fight?
Hi Paul, Forgive me, I'm waxing a bit tonight.
We know how the CIA made a point of controlling the message and media by creating and supporting liberal media outlets.
Yes but the brunt of that was 50 years ago.This forum thinks the "Deep State" that definitely existed in the 50's and 60 is today. I'll toss a saIvo out there and say those forces aren't near as prodigious as they were back then.In the 50's and 60's. at that time, they were newly emergent and there were little checks and balances on their power. But the current deep state wasn't 't powerful enough to keep Trump from being elected. The Russians "Deep State" was much more instrumental in our own election than ours.A lot of people who talk of the "deep state" today refer to government intrusion, but the government's no more sinister, it's the power to intrude on our everyday lives is greater than ever as result of the advent of the internet and information technology and a great many people who have grown up under that influence, are really just fine with that. There are a lot of Fox viewers who think that the deep "surveillance" state is really some creation of the Democrats. It's true, Obama got caught with his pants down when Snowden revealed the extent and capability of domestic spying. At that point he went the route that "as a free society we have to have a national dialog,about safeguards"" blah blah blah, but in reality , he pushed the limits on an unsuspecting public.,and has there really been any public dialog? But to ascribe deep state to one political party?, I don't think for a second any presidential candidate from either party, Obama,the Bush's, the Clintons, Trump Mc Cain, Romney, or Kerry wouldn't have all done the same thing or simply wouldn't have asked. If people don't care nothing will get done.Certainly Feinstien and Warner will never change anything. The strongest feature of Bernie Sanders campaign was his simple campaign platform, which most Americans in polls are in favor of.So why don't the Democrats win? There are definitely forces, bureaucratic and private "deep state" , conspiracies if you will, working against it, but again not sizable enough to defeat Trump. It's a war of ideas, and unfortunately the average American isn't very bright, and considerably less by European and Canadian standard .For example , when Trump did that pre-arranged bombing of Syria, there were a considerable number of people who said" Yay, it's just good that we're finally doing something". That's a big hurdle to be overcome. This isn't because of military propaganda, it's more of a boredom, anxiety issue.Off topic, Yeah, we want successive generations to remember and investigate the Kennedy Assassination, but unfortunately I'm convinced all the conspiracy talk has now just become corrosive to the new generations, and has become an exploitive tool of the right. It's just a message of paranoia and hopelessness that causes the younger generation to strike out against imagined enemies while having no real concept who the real enemies are..