Robert Mady

As I recall, FETZER claimed KENNEDY had shards of glass embedded in his face from the shot thru the windshield, witnessed at Parkland. I asked FETZER directly for the evidence to support this claim. I am still waiting for the evidence. It is all B.S.

Why is there any doubt the Zapruder film had been altered and that there were frames removed from the film? There is no way to explain how the CONNALLYS move from prone positions to sitting forward in 1/2 of a second unless time was compressed by frame removal, this also means the limo was moving slower than calculated by using the extant film as it is. Frame Z-314 and Z-323 : transition 1/2 second Start to address the real mystery, how did the dazed and severely wounded JOHN CONNALLY move so quickly and why did neither JOHN or NELLIE include these movements in their testimony? You want to catch culprits in lies, catch the CONNALLYS, their lies are apparent every time you watch the Z-film. Why is it that researchers are unable to see?

Pam, 'Ferguson Memo' 1) Claimed "at a point directly under the mirror' this is incorrect by all other evidence. The damage was to the left side of the mirror (from drivers view), including the radiating cracks. 2) Claimed he scrapped blood from under the upholstery buttons, he claimed the SSA let this man into the garage unattended and was free to abscond with evidence. What reason would he have taken the chance to scrape blood from a crime scene. Isn't this memo a self confession of tampering with evidence? I don't believe the SSA would allow any visitor to wonder the White House unattended and absolutely not to inspect the limo. 3) This is a memo, not a sworn affidavit. 4) Other claims were made that the limo was shipped back to Michigan to be renovated and the windshield removed and destroyed at the FORD plant. Ferguson claims it was done at the White House. 5) For what reason would he have had to revisit the limo the second time? Pam this is chasing evidence trails purposely laid by the conspirators intended to confuse and confound, it appears to have been working. For those that profess to believe the first shot penetrated the windshield they must prove that GREER and KELLERMAN were part of the conspiracy because it would have been impossible to not react to a shot coming thru the windshield. They also must prove the location of the shooter, this should be pinpointed easily by drawing a line from the neck wound to windshield and extending it out to the East park area for all the frames the neck wound could have occurred. Then find one witness claiming to hear 1 shot coming from this direction, preferably the first shot. Please consider the damage to the windshield is not real, it was post added to the limo as evidence that shots came from the rear.

Jon, we can mull over the contradictions and continue to argue over which evidence is real and which is not, we can protect those pieces of evidence most precious to our theories while finding reasons to reject opposing views. We just can't solve the mystery. This is apparently forbidden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0dkqK1pGqE

Larry, Judge, claimed to get the information directly from B-52 crew members, this sort of information would have been suppressed, what sort of information did you acquire that would negate claims made by Judge? (I am assuming the claims to be factual in that I have tremendous faith in John Judge and what he uncovered.) Also it appears that you are discussing LBJ response to the assassination, whereas I have put forward information pertaining to the stance of the military in preparation for the assassination and anticipated reactions including the invasion of Cuba.

Martin, I am not aware of any documentation in support of this. John Judge claimed that troops were on standby at the time of the assassination for an invasion of Cuba and that the nuclear code books had been removed from B-52 aircraft to prevent an unpredicted nuclear exchange on 11/22/1963. The military liaison carrying the 'football' was not in close proximity to KENNEDY during the motorcade, which I am told is also significant. The military appears to have designed the assassination to implicate the Cubans therefore warranting an invasion but desired to limit the potential for a nuclear exchange.

Thanks for the link.

"It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled" Mark Twain

Pamela, my point is that after 51 years of researching the assassination there is still arguments concerning virtually every aspect of the assassination, the research community is incapable of deciphering evidence and forming definitive conclusions. Academics appears to be purely efforts of intellectual gymnastics. Of course 'we' all enjoy the puzzle, unfortunately 'we' never seem to put enough pieces together to form a coherent logical and reasonable image. Have I been soured, YES The assassination community can't even weed out or ignore people like LANE, GRODEN or FETZER from our midst, we have allowed these people to direct, control and bully 'us' in a direction for research away from the truth and 'we' seem to gladly be attracted to these pundits like children following vendor in dinging ice cream truck. We' can't decipher lies, contrary to understanding that lies have been proclaimed, we use them to form 'our' theories looking for novel ways false evidence can fit together to create wild scenarios like the 16 shot scenario being fired from 5 or 6 locations within DP. NUTZ.

Jon, 'we' are not really looking for solutions 'we' may be just filling time while we wait to die. 'We' have served the perpetrators since 12:30 p.m. on November 22, 1963.

David, which institution would have funded this program?

Thomas, I did not know that, thank you for the information.

DAVID You write in the other thread: David, let me give you an example of the noise level for the three rifle shots. 2 witnesses located at Record and Main recalled hearing three shots 19 sheriff deputies located outside of DP heard three shots 1 witness a block north of the TSBD to the rear of the building heard three shots 1 witness a behind and to the side of the TSBD sitting in an enclosed building heard three shots more than 70% of the witnesses heard three or more reports. A number of witnesses depicted in A6 reported hearing three rifle shots How does any of the above support 4 shots from the monuments? Which is your conclusion, correct? It, was meant to address that no matter in which direction or how far a person was in relation to the limo, three rifle shots could be heard. The problem is witnesses lack of awareness in the A6 photograph of any rifle shots having been fired. Every aspect of A6 corroborates the Assassination Four Shot Model, Every aspect of A6 proves there were no rifle shots heard prior to the fatal head wound.

Thomas, the way I understand this, OSWALD was released from duty because his mother had a problem with her nose. The discharge designation had nothing to do with his 'defection' to Russia.

Does anyone find it amazing that a man claimed to defect to Russia was concerned about having his discharge from the military revised to be 'honorable'. How could a man that professed to trade secrets with Americas nemesis making him a self-professed traitor, expect to be granted an 'honorable discharged'. He could because OSWALD had not dishonored the oaths he took. Semper Fi, that is the inscription on the Marine Corp ring he displayed to the press when he was paraded thru the police station, from Marine Corp website "Semper Fidelis distinguishes the Marine Corps bond from any other. It goes beyond teamwork—it is a brotherhood that can always be counted on." Semper Fi - ALWAYS FAITHFUL OSWALD didn't lie to us, the government did. I am a patsy I was on the steps eating lunch I was in the lunch room drinking a coke when a cop confronted me The backyard photographs are fake I don't own a rifle I don't own a revolver I didn't shoot anyone I heard three rifle shots they all came from the monument area (ok, I made that up, but I have no doubt he told FRITZ this)

Pamela, there is no doubt there is photographic evidence and testimonial evidence of damage to windshield and molding. Just the controversy on t-n-t verses crack is reminiscent of Mauser vs MC when neither rifle were actually used. What must be considered is there is not a SSA claiming damage to the limo prior to returning to Washington DC. GREER and KELLERMAN may not have noticed damage to the molding, in the hectic aftermath this is conceivable. Although a bullet hitting the molding would have made a noise and bullet fragments had to ricochet somewhere. KELLERMAN may not have noticed the windshield damage because he may have been preoccupied with radio transmission and what not. But the damage was well within the sight of GREER, it would have been impossible for him not to have noticed and what reason would he have lied and claimed to not see it when damage promotes the government story of shots coming from the rear? This make no sense to me and is the telling aspect for the authenticity of this evidence. Also a SSA or two drove the limo to the airport, there is no way in the world this SSA could not have seen the damaged windshield, the WC could have attained a statement or testimony from who ever the driver was and if he had a passenger, they did not. There is just something fishy here. The windshield and molding could have been saved at the FORD plant but by accounts they were destroyed on the spot. The proposal is the evidence supports the WC fiction for shots coming from the rear, the evidence could have been planted, recorded and then destroyed because it would not have withstood critical analysis. The time for the damage to be done to the limo would be shortly following the autopsy, this is when the fictional story began to solidify with a shot exiting the right front of KENNEDYS head. Where would the bullet fragments go...windshield and molding, they had to hit something or someone within the limo. If this damage was not planted then could they have had a plausible explanation were the bullet or bullet fragments went? Be careful with this evidence, they altered films, changed testimonies, created testimonies, they certainly could alter photographs and damage windshields and limo moldings. The fact the limo was damaged in two spots, indicates this damage was planted to reflect two bullet fragments exiting KENNEDYS head wound, one small that nicked the windshield and one large that dented the molding.

This is how insane the OSWALD question is: Please take note 1) The WC must have had the authority and power to determine the exact level of security OSWALD had been granted in order to work for CIA and ultra secret U2 projects. -> The WC did not, they questioned some co-workers about their levels of security, which means nothing. 2) The WC could have determined when the Intelligence Community revoked OSWALD security clearances -> The WC did not determine this. Was it prior to leaving the military, when he claimed to defect to Russia, when he came back home, after he left JCS, when he went to NO and professed to be a Marxist, prior to the assassination, after the assassination or was it ever revoked? 3) To work for Jaggars - Chiles - Stovall a CIA contractor, John Judge claimed, required approval from a number of intelligence agencies -> The WC never determined how OSWALD could have obtained a job with this contractor or which agencies approved OSWALD to work at JCS after returning from Russia. 4) John Judge claimed OSWALD appears to have worked on Cuban Missile Crisis photos (bringing work to advertising agency that not so coincidentally HESTER worked for) -> ? 5) Where and when did OSWALD acquire the craft of photography? It is clear the WC wanted no part in determining the truth about OSWALD.

Paul, I was chuckling while reading your reply, because I had thought about revising my post to include; a comment about like a duck "He looked like a duck, smelled like a duck, acted like a duck." I also agree with you, it would be best to have a perfectly clear understanding of OSWALD, but because of the nature of the crime he is associated with, we can be sure that the trail has been obscured to the point of being useless to discern the true facts, specially now 51+ years later. It is easy to see that instead of focusing on the culprits the majority of researchers time and efforts have been devoted to unraveling the enigma of OSWALD, he was the 'patsy' and is still a major diversion from uncovering the truth.

Jon, here is the data for the sound of the rifle shots as recalled by civilians and some government and media people. Three rifle shots came from the monument area according to these witnesses. Virtually no one mentions the picket fence, this was a creation from the Ministry Of Truth. There is initially a clear choice: 1) Ignore all of these witnesses and believe they were all mistaken. 2) Try to understand how the assassination was accomplished with 1 or more shooters all located within the monument area. Firing one silenced shot and then three rifle shots to inflict all of the authentic wounds. We know option 1) does not work because in 51 years we have not been able to satisfactory explain the assassination, why not give serious consideration to option number 2? Maybe all of these witnesses present in DP during the assassination might have been more correct than armchair researchers have been trying to imagine why they could have all been wrong.

A intentional shot thru the windshield does one other thing, in a true investigation the location of a shooter could be pinpointed. If a hole in the windshield caused the frontal throat injury, tracing back to the rifle would be simple and absolutely proof of a conspiracy. They would not have chanced this shot. IMO Pamela, I agree with you that professionals would not create this evidence intentionally.

Ray, you covered a good portion of it but we must include the roll of the Ministry Of Truth in propagating the official story and continuing to parrot this fiction while nefariously destroying those who may reveal glimpses of the truth.

Of course he was. Was able to obtain a high level security clearance. Worked for the CIA when he was in the armed forces on a top secret program. 'Defected' to Russia on an intelligence mission. Returned to the U.S. without repercussions. Was able to return with a Russian bride without a problem from Russia or US. Went to work for a defense contractor that required security clearance. Appears he worked on top secret photographs during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Went to N.O. and worked under Guy Bannister who worked for intelligence community, to promote a communistic identity. Associated with David Ferrie and Shaw, CIA assets. Was handled by GEORGE DE MOHRENSCHILDT, a man known to have associations with intelligence networks. Lived with a family connected with intelligence community that also had connections with operation paperclip. Should there be any doubt?

Don, how many more years of researching these factoids will it take to come to any sort of conclusion? Does it make sense that the more we look into the minutia of the case the more complicated the conspiracy theories become. Do you really believe that the conspirators would have dreamt up and executed an extremely complicated plan? We are filling our time with more and more, but no solution is in sight, everyone praying for the next release of government secrets so we can have even more to mull over. The assassination was not complicated, we are making it that way because we can't face the truth or we can't seem to separate our thinking from the lies that laid the foundation of our beliefs and we can't escape it's gravity.

David, I have posted hundreds of pieces of evidence supporting the assassination four shot model, that in addition disprove every theory there is. You want evidence please go read my threads and let me know what I have posted that is incorrect or misinterpreted.