Brad Milch

On the subject of lack of blood & wound debris on the trunk of JFK's parade car in the z-film: Josiah Thompson published some black & white Nix film frames in 'Six Seconds In Dallas' & pointed out what he interpreted to be JFK headshot wound debris moving back across the parade car's trunk in the direction of the Queen Mary. In later years, as clear versions of the Nix film became available to the public, Thompson's analysis was demonstrated in JFK forums to be wrong: what he actually was looking at was a reflection of the Bryan pergola's western retaining wall (where BDM was photographed by Phil Willis & Hugh Betzner). There are several interviews & speaking engagements Clint Hill participated in posted online at YouTube & C-Span. In at least one of them, Mr. Hill indicates that his suit & the hood, fender & windshield of the Queen Mary were all splattered with gore when JFK received his fatal wound. If this thread stays up for awhile, I'll go through them & indicate which one to cite for that info. Mary Moorman was asked in a fairly recent online interview posted at YouTube if she was splattered with gore when she snapped her famous polaroid photo & Mary replied that she was not. I've not seen any visuals of either the JFK limo or Queen Mary, while parked at Parkland, having gore splattered on them. Some film alterationists might argue that the gore was simply painted over in a process known as 'aerial imaging' on an optical printer. Reading an explanation from the person or persons that actually performed the alleged optical deception work has historically been missing in the JFK case. For example, in Doug Horne's Hawkeyeworks z-film alteration analysis, Mr. Horne tells us what was done to the z-film at Hawkeyeworks but as yet cannot provide names of those involved in the alleged optical deception. In the US judicial system, the burden of proof rests on the shoulders of the accuser. I hope what I've offered here & previously keeps the thread going. The 'other' z-film is a topic of interest for a lot of people globally. BM

Here's a couple of interviews of people who claimed to have seen the 'other' Z-film posted at YouTube: Rich Dellarosa: The Other Zapruder Film - Black Op Radio 2-26-09: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRhcQI4tFTI Jim Marrs interviews William Reymond: Researchers Greg Burnham & Pamela Brown have also stated online many times that they both saw the 'other' film on separate occasions. Each has a website that may offer additional info & both are EF members. Where did the 'other' film originate? Following the release of Doug Horne's alleged Hawkeyeworks alteration of the Z-original analysis, some believe the 'other Z-film' is one of the 3 original Zapruder copies made in Dallas the afternoon of Nov 22, 1963 that went to the FBI, SS & Life magazine that were not 'swapped out' with 3 alleged altered Hawkeyeworks copies & floated out to be viewed by an elite small number of people years ago. The late researcher Jack White published several illustrations online supporting his belief a photographer was inside the shelter (cupola) behind Zapruder & Sitzman. Jack believed he spotted a tripod inside the shelter. A video analyst at YouTube believes photographers and/or gunmen were positioned on top of the North pergola that were 'blacked out' in the Bronson & Bell films: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRwWAAvMvN8 That same analyst also believes a 'Zapruder like' film could have been created from the railroad yards signal tower or the Pullman train cars parked in the rail yards that are visible in a multitude of films & photos taken during & after the shooting. In the late 1980's TV specials 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy', a former soldier (Gordon Arnold) claimed to have filmed the assassination at the Black Dog Man location,only to lose his film to two police officers who assaulted him, plus former Green Beret Lt. Col Dan Marvin, who claimed he was offered a contract to kill William Pitzer, the Bethesda Navy officer that allegedly had filmed JFK's autopsy, claimed to have viewed several films of the assassination shown to him during the 'kill contract' offer. These allegations were presented in separate episodes. Some believe each man was describing the 'other' film. If I am not mistaken, WCD 298 (or a similar FBI model photo) depicts Zapruder not on his 'pedestal' but about where Black Dog Man was positioned in the Willis & Betzner photos. I should have this illustration in my library & will post a copy of it for those who haven't seen it or noticed it (if necessary). Some believe the initial FBI/SS/Dallas DPD/Dallas MSM investigators were working with the 'other' Z-film when initial shooting re-enactments were conducted, filmed & surveyed in Dealey Plaza & this led to Hoover placing the 3rd shot at the north pergola sidewalk steps (3rd string of the WCD 298 3D model); others believe Hoover was simply lying. Ironically, a 'mystery film' also pops up in another famous ambush: Bonnie & Clyde. Posse leader & ex-Texas Ranger Frank Hamer allegedly hired a professional photographer to film the ambush of B&C in order to cash in on public interest post-ambush, but decided against releasing the film, fearing a public backlash & lawsuits from B&C's relatives. The alleged film never surfaced while Hamer was alive or after he passed away. BM

Howdy Greg: With the research work put into this thread & also at ROKC, I'm beginning to wonder if LHO even went to work at the TSBD on Friday, Nov 22 1963. His own words on TV tell me he was there, but much, if not all of what's been fed to the public about LHO's Friday activities pre-arrest appears to a host of researchers to have been fabricated. It wouldn't surprise me if LHO was sent out to the Texas Theatre on a 'popcorn & Good 'n Plenty candy run' & his employers simply told DPD to bust him at the theatre. I do remember another forum that sank doing some face matching of LHO out in the street crowd. This was before Sean Murphy & Bill Kelly spotted PM. The LHO those folks were searching for was dressed in a white T-shirt (based on now suspect statements). Someone thought they spotted LHO in the Cooper or Cook films talking to a 3-wheeler DPD officer positioned near the TSBD entrance. BM edited to better express what I was thinking at the time

Is it just me, or does PM disappear from some of these visuals, only to reappear in others? Also, wasn't LHO supposed to be dressed in a t-shirt when he was seen after the shooting by a woman TSBD office worker? PM is not dressed in a t-shirt in the Wiegman, Darnell, Couch films. BM

J. Edgar Hoover had his eye on Oswald long before the assassination of JFK. I'm more prone to believe Hoover set LHO up than whoever was paying him money for Intel work sold him out. I'm no fan of Hoover. BM

Holy hitman, Batman! Is the CIA really coming clean on its past? Would the CIA really let a person like this out of its clutches to spill big Agency beans? Has this guy signed a book deal yet? I recall a thread started by Mr. Simpkin in the not too distant past in which he said, more or less, that the Agency will publicize some sort of 'limited confession' in the JFK assassination. He used a term I can't recall at the moment. Is that what this is? Discussion comments suggestions: Surely, the FBI's not going to let this guy dirty on the Bureau back in the days when Hoover was its dictator, would they? What about Dorothy Kilgallen & Mary Pinchot Meyers? Did this fellow ice them too under orders? How many more ex-CIA guys like this are still floating around 'out there' if this guy's for real? I, for one, would love for the truth to be revealed while I'm still here breathing air on this chunk of polluted space rock. Whatever really happened to JFK & why, I can handle it; no spoon feeding required. Besides, according to my religious upbringing & education, I'm supposed to learn the real deal on everything when I'm unplugged. So is everyone else. Release all the files, come clean & let's move past 51 years ago. The more time we all spend on determining what happened to JFK is time we should have spent dealing with an evil army determined to destroy us globally. The public's been lied to so much, at this point it's difficult to tell if this is another 'just discovered' Zapruder film BS story or not. I'll definitely keep an eye on it to see how it develops. Thanks for the heads up, Mr. Caddy. BM

Well said, Paul. I agree with your assessment of the situation 200%. FWIW, I vividly recall my classmates & me gathered around our 5th grade teacher's desk looking at the photos in her Nov 29, 1963 issue of Life magazine. The issue told us JFK was shot in the head & killed across from the pergola sidewalk steps in a large black & white photo that had an arrow pointing to the spot. WCD 298 visually says the same thing (we didn't know it then; that would come later when the WC Report & all its supporting volumes was released). The magazine told us JFK turned around in his seat & looked back at Oswald shooting at him. We couldn't see that in the photos. My teacher was ahead of her time. She had a problem with the magazine's narrative of the shooting death of JFK that she shared with us: she had seen John Connally's TV hospital bed interview & noted he said the shooting started just as JFK's parade car turned the corner at Houston & Elm Streets, yet the magazine stated the shooting started as JFK's car was coming back into view from behind the roadway sign further down Elm St. She believed John Connally's version & questioned why JFK's guards didn't do anything to help him. She flipped back to the photo taken from the sniper's nest with the arrow indicating JFK had been shot in the head & killed at that pergola sidewalk location. Our teacher used the photo to show us how much distance was traveled from 'just turned the corner' to the fatal shot (supposedly) at the pergola sidewalk steps. Her assessment: 'Something's fishy; those guards had time to do something'. Those comments would come up again later in years in news articles, books & online discussions over the years. It started me on my quest to learn who was smelling up the story of JFK's death with lies & why,plus value the perception of women studying the case. It wasn't until college that I learned about Operation Mockingbird & its mission of intelligence agencies using the media to lie for them. My professor used the 29 Nov 1963 issue of Life magazine to illustrate his point. Best wishes, Brad Milch PS: Pat, the episode of 'Murder She Wrote' about the JFK assassination in your Black Op Radio interview was the season 9, episode 13 show titled 'Dead Eye', originally broadcast in 1993. YouTube may have it in their large Murder She Wrote collection. If it's online & a free download I'll post a link. I enjoyed the info you provided about Thomas Canning & his disinfo that was injected into the HSCA Report in your appearance on Black Ops Radio. Len Osanic is one sharp cookie & I always enjoy his show & featured guests. I believe what he is currently focused on in exposing fraud in the HSCA Report is important to all interested in the JFK case. So much focus has been on the WC & its failures that it's often forgotten that the WC has a Siamese twin in the HSCA that is equally as bad as the WC, if not worse. Between the two, it's obvious that the public has never gotten an honest investigation of the deaths that occurred in Dallas 51 years ago. The names of two persons associated with the assassination featured in your guest appearance obviously sets Len Osanic off like a bottle rocket! (LOL). It's great to see EF researchers getting the exposure they deserve on Mr. Osanic's very popular Internet radio show.

Pat's got it right, IMHO. Back in the day, the peons were expected to eat what was handed to them. Salt & pepper was easily available if the taste was bitter. I've tried to demonstrate to those not alive at the time what young up & commers in jr. & high schools went through when they questioned what appeared to them to be BS in regards to the official explanation of the death of JFK. It WAS BS. It always has been. The difference between then & now is it can be questioned in public & discussed. Back then what flowed from the top was expected to be consumed, forgotten & everybody get back to the twist party. Keeping one's mouth shut kept Hoover from starting a file & directing his agents at them. What modern BS sellers overlook is that Hoover was still there after the WC disbanded. Hoover was still there after LBJ left office. Had there been no WC, Hoover's Dec 1963 report was what the public would have gotten as an explanation of the assassination. WCD 298 was a visual courtesy to the WC to get them started on the right track. The right track was what Hoover determined happened. LHO was no stranger to Hoover, he had been keeping tabs on Lee Oswald long before the ambush in Dallas. The answer to would WC staffers go on radio & 'lie their tails off' is yes. Why? Hoover was still there. BM

I stumbled into the reality of the situation you described quite innocently in the mid '1960's, Paul. I used my paper route earnings to buy 'Six Seconds In Dallas' & gave an oral book report on it in class (around 10th grade). Motivation for the paper route = father who didn't grant allowances (spoiling kids wasn't his thing). Humping a bike load of papers in the freezing snow near Seattle at 5 in the morning on a school day wasn't very glamorous. I had some spectacular early morning wipe outs that no one witnessed (fortunately). After the class I gave the oral report in, I was lectured for promoting communist propaganda & disobedience to the USA, not to mention throwing the school into jeopardy of becoming a victim of Hoover's suspicions & wrath. How dare I suggest the high & mighty Hoover & his FBI of incompetence? My father's take on the JFK assassination at the time: rich bastards get what they deserve. As I remember, the Beatles, Monkees & Stones were the thing at the time. After the oral report, I started getting sent to the vice-principal's office for haircut infractions & sent home to obtain what the school found 'acceptable' on a routine basis. The short marine style haircuts so common today I adopted just to get school administrators off me. Long hair on guys loving girlies found me repulsive as a result. Thanks, Josiah Thompson. Sheez. BM

I like former Justice Department attorney John T. Orr's take on what Mr. Trejo lays out above. Mr. Orr states in the gunshot analysis report that he submitted to Janet Reno (downloadable at the Fox news JFK 50 website) that the WC's report basically said, 'we don't know how Oswald did it, but WE KNOW HE DID IT'. Other takes I've read include Gerald Ford snitching to Hoover on the WC's progress & informing Hoover that the 3 shots/3hits explanation of the ambush just wouldn't sell once the Z-film got unlocked & viewed by criminalists & other experts. Ford supposedly got the WC off the hook of facing Hoover's wrath for going against his Dec 1963 report & producing a more 'sellable' piece of garbage. The WC Report took the heat for the public backlash of the then Government's explanation of JFK's death, not Hoover's Report or LBJ. Hoover's Report isn't even in the WC Report. Some (like me) find it strange that the WC did publish WCD 298, that clearly shows visually that Hoover's FBI was lying about the shooting from the get go. Was publishing that FBI initial analysis a mistake or the WC's trump card to use if Hoover messed with any of the commissioners or their staff following the disbanding of the WC? Maybe. Back in 1964, no one bucked Hoover if they expected to live a normal life unless the possibility of Hoover retaliation had been smoothed over first. From Pat Speer's website I have learned that Hoover was leaking out to the public what he wanted & bypassed the WC in the process. WC or not, the public was still being 'Hooverized'. BM

There seems to be a 'lull' in the action of this thread at the moment, so I'd like to slip this in for the discussion 'food table' for possible consideration at some point later down the road that this thread takes: After absorbing the colossal amount of info contained in this thread, I now suspect the DPD either knew PM was LHO or took what he was telling Captain Fritz about being "outside with Shelley" & transferred the Dr. Pepper bottle eventually found on the TSBD entrance steps to the 6th floor. Especially if DPD knew or suspected Lee Oswald's prints were on the bottle. Lying about where the bottle was really found (TSBD entrance steps) would place Oswald near the sniper's nest IMHO. I also wonder if the wadded up paper bag visible next to the Dr. Pepper bottle in the William Allen photos also walked itself upstairs to the 6th floor of the TSBD along with the Dr. Pepper bottle with PM's prints on it and became the remnants of a chicken lunch the public was told had been found near the sniper's nest. Come to think of it, I've not seen any photos of the remains of the 'chicken lunch' allegedly found on the 6th floor, have you? I know DNA testing didn't exist in 1963, but the bones could have been examined for teeth bite marks. LHO was already in custody, a dentist could have easily made the comparison then & there. Had the lunch remains been preserved, DNA could be pulled from the remains of it, considering it met the mouth of whoever consumed it. What happened to the Dr. Pepper bottle seen handled by the DPD detective in the Allen photos? The detective wouldn't be wasting his time on it if the bottle wasn't destined to become part of the chain of evidence, would he? The bottle serves a dual purpose: PM = LHO could use it for an alibi that PM = LHO wasn't in the sniper's nest during the shooting & DPD could use the bottle to place PM = LHO in or near the snipers nest by claiming they found it there. DPD could also use the bottle to claim LHO left by the TSBD front entrance & left the bottle there as he was leaving. I suspect the lunchroom encounter story centers around that bottle. The fact that the 2nd floor lunchroom contained a Coke machine doesn't sway me that LHO bought a Coke there; I've seen hundreds of Coke machines in my life that contained a variety of soft drink brands (including Dr. Pepper). The lunch room encounter is to get PM = LHO INSIDE the building, not outside it IMHO. Assuming PM = LHO & LHO's prints are on a soft drink bottle PM seems to be holding in the Darnell-Couch-Wiegman films combo & a Dr. Pepper bottle can be seen in several William Allen photos at the TSBD entrance, the time of day the Allen photos were taken in comparison to when LHO was arrested become becomes important for several reasons & raises the issue of why didn't DPD enter the Dr. Pepper bottle into evidence if PM = LHO's prints were on the bottle? It seems to me that if PM = LHO, LHO left evidence that he was not in the sniper's nest at the time of the shooting not only in his image captured in the Darnell, Couch & Wiegman films, but also on the soft drink bottle & remains of lunch contents in the paper bag; both of which disappeared from the chain of evidence. They vanished for a reason that was not helpful to DPD in building a case against LHO. A soft drink bottle with LHO's prints on it places him wherever police claim they found that bottle. Just sayin'.... BM PS: PM = LHO looks like a rolled up long sleeve shirt to me, but I wasn't there...At one point it looked to me like PM = LHO was sitting on something (box or chair perhaps) because he looked shorter than the others near him (I tossed that in just in case another poll gets started).....

Hi James & all, I hope this is a good spot to add this thought to the discussion food table: if PM was LHO & was filming when JFK's & LBJ's cars had passed his location, what was holding his attention when the Darnell, Couch & Wiegman camera cars suddenly pull up to the Elm St. divider, stop & capture on film PM standing in the TSBD entrance? This researcher believes the answer to that question is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW_U8pxOu78 The obvious question following acceptance of the PM = LHO equation that is hanging in the air is: Who's doing the shooting & from where if PM = LHO (regardless if PM is filming or not)? The Records Building rooftop comes into play in the research of John T. Orr (that he gave to Janet Reno). If either Leroy Blevins Sr. or John T. Orr are correct, we've been looking at the wrong building for shooters the last 51 years. Something to chew on later in the thread, maybe? BM

This is a computer simulation of the TSBD 6th floor southwest open window sniper's view of JFK's ambush (if one was there): The video presenter has a multitude of possible sniper's locations in Dealey Plaza & their line of sight to the ambush victims posted in his playlist that may be helpful in trajectory & wound analysis. It would have been a simple matter for the SS/FBI/WC to move the camera mounted on top of the Oswald MC rifle barrel with scope from the sniper's nest to the southwest window on the same 6th floor & focus their surveyor's attention on the S/W window. The data & visual aids they did not provide will have to be created from scratch by today's researchers & analysts. The absence of reference study material on the West end of the TSBD is a good indication of how new the subject the researchers appearing in this thread & their approach tackling that subject is. As Captain Kirk would probably say, researchers in this thread are 'boldly going where no one's gone before'. BM edited to update video link & add some stuff I forgot before

Mark & Chris: I'm with the both of you. West end makes more sense for a number of reasons: less chance of being observed by spectators below, easier to quickly hide the murder weapon & get off the floor, more difficult for return fire from DPD & SS agents in Queen Mary rounding the curve at the pergola steps being among them. The shells could easily have been moved to the sniper's nest by investigators. The rifle barrel or 'pipe looking thing' spectators reported seeing in the sniper's nest could have been a shooter that decided not to fire or perhaps a camera with a telephoto lens. The loud discharge of rifle shots from the TSBD West end reverberating inside the TSBD would probably have been sufficient to cause ceiling paint or plaster to fall into TSBD employees hair inside the building & fool them as to the source of the shots. It falls more in line with witnesses located around the North pergola believing the shots came from behind them West end of TSBD makes sense. BM

Hi Pat, Besides the Education Forum, I consider your website the ultimate online source for the JFK assassination & strongly urge all interested in the case to bookmark it & absorb each chapter regularly. Nothing I've seen on the Internet comes close to Pat's work IMHO. For dinosaurs like me that were alive during the time of the assassination & aftermath that didn't fully understand what was happening behind the scenes, Pat's chronology & timeline of the initial re-enactments plus the media coverage of it is invaluable to understanding the full story of JFK's death that won't be found elsewhere with the detail Pat's put into it. I doubt any library existed then (or now) that offers the extensive media coverage documentation that Pat's website offers. There's new info to be learned from Mr. Speer that could have been initially missed globally by many. A explanation of the power J. Edgar Hoover possessed & how he used it early in his long career can be found in this brief run down of Hoover's participation in the ambush of Bonnie & Clyde: The details section of the video explains that it was Hoover's agents feeding info on their whereabouts that enabled the posse tracking down the infamous crime duo & their gang that led to their demise. Hoover was after the gang not for the robberies they committed & the deaths they caused, but for the cars Clyde & his gang stole & drove across state lines. Ironically, the stolen Ford B&C were attacked & killed in belonged to a woman named Ruth Warren. The names Warren & Hoover would cross paths again following the ambush of President Kennedy & execution of DPD Officer Tippit. It may surprise some that Bill Decker ("hold everything secure") was involved in the story too. The ambush of Bonnie & Clyde was a conspiracy to murder, not capture the duo. The 1st of the 2 posses that eventually combined into one was led by ex-Texas Ranger Frank Hamer. The Texas Governor at the time hired Hamer for the exclusive purpose of executing B&C when they were located. Hamer was also authorized by the Texas Governor to keep Bonnie & Clyde's guns & anything else he found on them once they had been killed. Due process was not an option for B&C. Pat Speer's website can be found here: http://www.patspeer.com IMHO, bucking Hoover during the tenure of the WC = seriously big huevos (especially when considering what tight friends Hoover & LBJ were). To me, it demonstrates that Earl Warren was not intimidated by Hoover or LBJ to deviate from Hoover's report on the assassination & the visual conclusions of WCD 298 & go on to produce a report that has repeatedly been proven to be wrong in its conclusions concerning Lee Oswald & failing to provide a reasonable & accurate explanation of what happened to JFK that resulted in his death 51 years ago. BM edited to correct typos & add stuff I forgot to mention

I'd like to slip one more thing into the thread that is important for the visitors reading the research analysis to keep in mind & not forget: there is no SS follow-up car tailgating JFK's parade car in the initial analysis. Not in the filmed re-enactments from several places outside the TSBD & from the sniper's nest looking down at both Houston & Elm Streets. Not in the survey work. Missing from the last two shots in WCD 298. As a result of presenting JFK's car as a solo target on Elm Street (when in fact it had a car full of agents immediately behind it, 4 agents standing on running boards) one cannot tell if there was a line of sight blockage problem with the guards & their car missing from the analysis. This slick omission went unnoticed for decades & was repeated in almost all TV & computer re-enactments ever since. The few exceptions have the SS follow-up car positioned much further back from JFK's limo than it was during the attack & do not show the viewer what a line of sight from the sniper's nest looked like with the agents & their car positioned historically correct. More snake oil. To a high school or college student trying to demonstrate the shooting from the sniper's nest line of sight, there are no visuals that are historically accurate for them to work with because the Government of that era & MSM did not make such visuals available. The SS car & agents do not appear in WCD 298 at the 2nd & 3rd shot locations, preventing a viewer from determining from the appropriate string if the SS agents and/or their car presented a line of sight blockage to a TSBD sniper's nest shooter. Even more snake oil. Any TV special, movie film or computer animation re-enactment of JFK's ambush that omits the SS guards & their transport vehicle tailgating JFK's limo during the attack on his life are deceptions (kinda like a dishonest used car salesman focusing one's attention on the upholstery & killer sound system & not the leaking transmission about to fall out of the drive train). BM

The importance of this thread cannot be overstated. It's the Achilles Heel of Hoover's FBI report on the assassination that the WC was created to 'rubber stamp' its approval of (as explained by LBJ to Hoover in the Nov 29 1963 White House phone call & also to Senator Russell in another call that week, if not the same day [sorry, I can't remember which at the moment]). Besides the obvious question of what the heck was Hoover seeing in the z-film that we don't see to justify the 3-D model's placement of the 3 shots [the 3rd one close to the North Pergola sidewalk steps], It also brings up the question of the WC deviating from what LBJ created it to do (rubberstamp Hoover's FBI report). Who had the huevos to change what Hoover had determined & risk not only Hoover's wrath, but also that of LBJ? Someone surely got their approval to go with the SBT. It must have been done in phone calls or meetings where no record was kept; I don't recall any audio or other documentation being released addressing this question, do you? Back in 1964, bucking Hoover often resulted in a file being started on the offender & Hoover's agents tapping phones, tailing people around, digging through their trash, breaking into their houses & offices, etc. Hoover had a file on Henry Wade. Nothing's come out that any of the WC commissioners or their staff incurred the wrath of Hoover or LBJ by deviating from Hoover's FBI report on the assassination & WCD 298 with the SBT. Hoover knew what the WC was doing at all times; Gerald Ford was keeping Hoover informed. Hoover's report isn't even in the WC. The SBT allowed the commissioners to sweep WCD 298 under the rug. It's incredible that WCD 298 was even published in the WC Report. The HSCA swept it even further under the rug by doing their own shot analysis. To my way of thinking, everything starts with WCD 298. The 3D model & shot locations were the product of the re-enactment filming & surveying (aided by the unseen by the public Z-film) performed the week after the assassination and the 1st week of December 1963. Life magazine was supporting Hoover's 3rd shot placement (by the steps) in its Nov 29, 1963 issue that introduced the fuzzy, black & white Zapruder frames to the world for the first time. Pat Speer lays out a really good timeline of these events at his website. None of that should be swept under the rug; the focus should stay on WCD 298 in my opinion & why Hoover determined what he visually depicted in the 3D model presented in WCD 298 & determined in Hoover's FBI report. To many, Hoover's FBI report & WCD 298 indicate Hoover was lying about the ambush from the get go & throws the 'hard evidence' under an umbrella of suspicion. Chris, I wish you'd put up some videos up at YouTube using a blackboard & a pointer to explain your research for math dummies like me. The only reason I made it through High School was because girls smart in math helped me. If not for them, I'd still be back there (LOL). Best, BM

Hi Jon, Back in my office work days I used to roll my sleeves up & it caused a permanent crease in the shirt's arm sleeves. Ditto for warehouse type work. The more expensive men's shirts I wore handled that abuse a lot better than the cheaper men's shirts did but there'd still be a slight visible crease in the sleeves. No amount of ironing or visits to the dry cleaner's could get the crease out of either arm. I had to constantly buy new shirts. The photo analysis in this thread is outstanding. I've looked at William Allen photos for 30 years or so & never noticed a Dr. Pepper bottle in the corner of the TSBD entrance. Perhaps good visuals analysts can spot such a crease in LHO's meager clothing inventory? (had some women I've known been the accused assassin, they'd be looking at a couple hundred pair of different colored shoes, belts, purses & other ladies wear items [LOL]) BTW, I share your opinion on the trustworthiness of JFK ambush visuals. I don't trust any of it that flowed into DPD, Federal agencies & MSM hands. If PM's presence was removed or disguised in some of the visuals, it's nothing short of a miracle that his image survived in Darnell, Couch & Wiegman. Best, Brad Milch edited to correct typos I didn't spot earlier

Howdy Randy & Thomas: I agree that the evidence needs to be re-examined by new technology, particularly the films & photos. High profile murder trials have taught us a lesson on how seemingly good, rock solid, airtight evidence pointing to an accused's guilt can get tossed out the window by a jury that didn't trust the collectors & handlers of that evidence. When convicted felons are found to be innocent of the crimes they were accused of, the right thing to do is overturn their conviction & help them get the part of their lives they lost while in prison restored. Lee Oswald's life was stolen from him & cannot be restored, but his family's honor can be restored. Most people with an interest in this case lean towards 'doing the right thing' IMHO. That's what brings people to EF in the 1st place; determining what is the right thing when the possibility LHO was innocent or involved in the JFK ambush in a lesser capacity than a shooter hangs over the assassination like a cloud. The evidence in the case can take a person in either direction. This thread I would classify as 'super important'. The constructors of the info contained within this thread are deserving of the Nobel Peace prize IMHO. BM

Howdy, Cliff: Hey, your comment disappeared! I got kicked in the shin by a rather large country gal on the school bus back around the 7th grade or so. I'm 62 now & it's still sore. Call it as you like but if I was playing football against that gal & she wanted the football, I'd give it to her in a second. No questions asked. I might even block for her (LOL). BM

Hi, Vanessa I like reading a woman's perspective on this case. There's far too few ladies sharing their views online IMHO. Women are extremely perceptive. I once gave a co-worker a ride to the bus stop from work & my ex smelled her perfume in my car weeks after smoking & hauling stuff around in it. To this day I think she believes I was guilty of something. Fellas probably don't like to admit it, but it's the ladies that do most of the hunting in the lion pride, not the Bert Lahr types (lol). It's been said that if the lion pride had to depend on the lion for food, they'd all starve. Does LHO being in the entranceway of the TSBD tell you he was innocent of the assassination or was working in concert with someone else using his rifle upstairs in the TSBD? Could that someone be the person LHO was allegedly spying on? What does LHO's presence outside the TSBD tell you if he indeed was Prayer Man? Could a woman have been involved in the JFK ambush? I read way back some interesting opinions that Beatrice Hestor was supposedly the 'bag lady' that hid the weapon used to shoot JFK from the pergola shelter or front area near it in her large purse (or shopping bag) while her hubby distracted Dave Wiegman by running to the Pergola & peering out one of the slots. I believe it was Inspector Holmes remarking that he thought he saw Beatrice's hubby or someone handing her a weapon that she stuffed in her large purse as he watched through his binoculars that triggered that line of suspicion. The Hestors were mentioned in initial radio broadcasts as being suspicious characters. I also read some comments about the black ladies visible in the Croft Elm St. Betzner3 & Altegns6 photos being male members of an anti-Castro operation dressed in drag. Someone matched their faces. Each & every one of those women vanished after the attack on JFK. I believe one of them is the woman seen running after DPD Officer Baker in the Gerda Dunckel visual loop posted earlier in this thread in several places. Best, Brad Milch PS: If RoKC is the karate club, will you go easy on me if ever mad at me? I bruise & bleed way too easily (sigh)... PSPS to Mark & Robert: The toughest truck I ever saw was my Grandpa's '40's something Chevy. He used to start it by beating on the carb with a 'monkey wrench' while my Grandma worked the ignition....

I forgot some other films that either capture the TSBD entrance or came close to it, Thomas. Mark Bell & Robert Hughes capture it. The John Martin film just misses it. All 3 have been accused of being victims of film alteration. I've mentioned the Tina Towner, Dave Wiegman, Crouch & Darnell films already. Wiegman & Towner have been accused of being altered, I haven't seen anything on the Internet about Crouch & Darnell just yet. The most common form of alteration I've seen described in the videos posted at YouTube, individual websites or blogs is the alleged use of dark paint to obscure something in the film or the entire scene depicting that same 'something' missing from the film in question. For example: look at the Robert Hughes film & notice the interruption in the filming of the motorcade on Houston Street that begins again as the limo begins to turn the corner at the Elm intersection. The public's been told Hughes stopped filming & then began again (Frontline - Who Was lee Harvey Oswald). A film alterationist would argue Hughes filmed continuously & a scene was edited out of the film. Mary Muchmore's film stops about the same place as the Hughes film also stops on Houston Street. I've already mentioned the dark rectangles on top of the North Pergola as seen in the Bell & Bronson films. A film alterationist would argue that whatever was on top of the pergola during JFK's ambush was darkened with black paint & obscured on an optical printer. In regards to the TSBD entrance & the persons in the doorway or steps, a film alterationist would argue that dark paint was used to remove someone in that area, such as PM, that the entire doorway has been blurred by an optical printer to make the faces undistinguishable (Towner's film has been accused of being a victim of this type of alteration) or a scene capturing the TSBD entrance was edited out of a film (John Martin's film has been accused of being the victim of this type of alteration). The public is often asked to compare the 'frozen looking', non-moving, blurred crowd seen in the Towner film to the moving around, waving crowd seen in the Martin film. Same for Zapruder & other films. A 'frozen' looking crowd is a tip-off of an optical printer alteration (I've been told by film analysts). Other forms of comparison: compare Pierce Allman's description of a jubilant, waving, applauding, cheering crowd around him as JFK's car turns the corner of Elm & moves past Allman to the frozen looking crowd seen in the Zapruder film. Artificial 'blurring' created on an optical printer is often passed off as the camera operator 'panning'. Doug Horne does a good job of explaining how alterations are done on film using an optical printer & a process called aerial imaging. The image paint is applied not to the actual film, but to a piece of glass positioned over an individual film frame that is then re-photographed, frame by frame. When the process is completed, there are 2 films: the original & the altered copy. When the film is run in motion the human eye will not pick up the paint (in most cases, unless a sloppy job was performed by the alterationists). Noted, respected visuals alterations experts would include David Healy, John Costello, the late Jack White & David Lifton. We lost Jack White, but he has a series of YouTube videos still posted at Y/T & I remember many posts he contributed here at EF. Notable 'up & comers' would include Leroy Blevins Sr. & EF's own Robert Mady. I usually keep up with JFK film analysis in YouTube by searching for the subject & 'today'. If I want to see what was posted on the JFK assassination at Y/T within the last 24 hours, I'd type into the Y/T search engine: JFK Assassination, today. I find the subject of photography & how the human eye & brain reacts to it & motion pictures intriguing. Motion pictures, like pictures, are said to all be illusions of reality. The eye, when seeing motion pictures, will not pick up on subtle changes because of the human brain. That's about all I know about the subject. Those that understand film alteration can fill us all in much better than I can. A good example of how the brain & eye work together to trick is the scene in the Wizard Of Oz where Dorothy's house falls on the witch. That scene was filmed by a person standing on a ladder, holding a toy house upside down & allowing the house to fall to the floor of the film studio. Then the film was run backwards and copied on an optical printer. The Starship Enterprise zipping by on 'Star Trek' was created by moving a camera towards and then away from a toy starship. When the film is projected the starship appears to move towards and then away from the viewer at a fast speed. There's a lot of JFK ambush film analysis posted at YouTube & comments are not always allowed. It would be great to have some of those posting the videos to talk to us here at EF & explain their presentation better. I, for one, would follow those threads because I find the topic of film alteration intriguing. TV commercials utilizing optical special effects are a lot different today than when I was young. There were no British speaking lizards selling car insurance on tv 'back in the day' (LOL) BM

Hi Thomas Good point. Dr. Henry Lee commented in a TV documentary on the multitude of missing original material in the JFK case & he believed it was due to persons taking home certain items believing them to be valuable someday. He issued an plea in the documentary for persons who took the original items to return them. In a thread with a subject that has been explored extensively like this one on Prayer Man, the Darnell, Wiegman, Couch & Towner film originals could help determine who PM was if they remained in good shape after 51 years. Portions of the Zapruder film looked all beat up when it was released after supposedly living in the safety of a vault at Time-Life. No telling how many cups of coffee were spilled on those film originals. I personally don't know what to think about film alteration allegations (regardless of the films suspected to have been altered); to my way of thinking it would have been much easier (and cheaper) to say something like, 'the dog ate the film' after it disappeared than to go to the time & expense to attempt to fool someone by altering a visual. Not to mention facing the possibility of going to prison for the deception, particularly if several people were involved in the alteration, any one capable of snitching on the others & getting all involved caught. Eliminating the alterationists doesn't work either; doing so leaves no personnel to make future alterations. It's much easier to trash the film & blame it on the photographer ('Zapruder's film is blank because he forgot to take the lens cap off') or the film processor ('Darnell's film is blank because the film processor used the wrong chemicals & ruined it'). Those routes seem more practical to me. Then again, I wasn't part of a suspected conspiracy to murder JFK & cover it up, either. Cutting scenes out of films create jumps in the film signaling to the viewer's eyes that the filming process was interrupted. That's like a big neon sign pointing to the missing scene. Using graphics paint to change or otherwise disguise something seems pretty sneaky. I do know this: people play around with graphics all the time. YouTube is full of altered images. Dave Letterman's show features a multitude of altered photos & films each week (for humor purposes). Film alterationists have not been able to identify who did the alleged work. For example, Doug Horne tells us the original Zapruder film was altered at Hawkeyeworks the assassination weekend. He tells us what was done too: The limo turn & stop was eliminated, JFK's horrific head wound to the rear of his head was blacked out and a fake explosion was painted in frame z-313 but he hasn't produced the person or persons that did this. Neither has anyone else. Up to this point no one's noticed anything to suspect Couch & Darnell films as being alteration victims; Wiegman & Towner films have already been accused of being monkeyed with on an optical printer. There's a couple of videos addressing that subject on YouTube. Bell & Bronson films too; I saw film analysis that focuses on a couple of black rectangles on top of the North pergola visible in Bell & Bronson. The video presenter believes shooters or camera personnel were on top of the pergola that were blacked out with artist's paint via an optical printer. When it comes to film, I'm still back at the original King Kong climbing the empire state building & swatting at WWI aircraft. That movie scared me really bad when I was young. I thought it was real. My mother had a really tough time getting me to stay alone in my bedroom & going to sleep. For that reason, I have to step aside & listen to those who know what the real deal is when it comes to monkeying around with film & other visuals. I don't have those qualifications & never will. It is an intriguing topic. According to a John Lennon song's lyrics, "Nothing Is real". People that have tried to deceive me in my life did so with words & actions. Film & photos were never involved. I introduced these thoughts more or less as a door for film alterationists to join the thread. If they do, this thread has the potential for going on forever (LOL). best, Brad Milch

The disappearance of original evidence (particularly in the visual record) in the JFK assassination is an alarming pattern that extends throughout the case & various chains of custody that cannot be blamed on Lee Oswald. Copies of motion pictures & photos are often inferior to the original & subject to receiving artifacts in the copying process. Alterations are not always easy to detect in visual copies. In this case, any provable effort to remove or disguise LHO's image visually from the entrance to the TSBD (or anywhere else he may have been photographed) is an obvious punishable crime that fuels the allegations that LHO was not the shooter that shot & killed President Kennedy & wounded John Connally & James Tague; crimes the government has consistantly maintained he committed 22 November 1963. Laws may have been broken; particularly in regards to the JFK Records Act that ordered all assassination materials turned over to the ARRB. BM edited (twice) to correct punctuation errors & typos

What I believe would help the researchers & other interested parties that participate in EF JFK threads or visit them is hearing directly from living witnesses or those who have first hand information about their JFK assassination experiences here at EF without intermediaries. I'm reminded of a promo I viewed at YouTube not long ago attempting to get the living witnesses, family, friends or associates involved in the C-130 flight that transported both JFK's parade car & the SS Queen Mary out of Dallas to contact several noted JFK researchers. It was a simple, homemade production & I don't know at the moment how effective it was. Perhaps something along those lines could direct living witnesses or associates of those deceased to communicate with the global public here at EF. Not all living witnesses will want to discuss the assassination for free. Some living witnesses seem to have put the assassination behind them. Some might still be fearful to discuss the event. Inviting those witnesses to EF may not be an easy undertaking. Some witnesses are suspicious of JFK researchers; in the Marie Tippit interview posted at the 6th Floor Museum's YouTube playlist page, Marie states she believes those who challenge the 'Oswald did it' judgment are doing so only for 'seeking publicity' purposes. Living witnesses suspicious of the intentions of JFK researchers are probably not going to discuss the assassination anywhere online. I do know this: a topic such as 'PM is LHO' could not be discussed in High Schools I attended in the mid to late 1960's. Doing so would earn a student a lecture about supporting Communist propaganda & threats of suspension (not to mention Hoover's FBI starting a file on the student or the school; a possibility educators were fearful of at the time). I know this personally after giving oral book reports on 'Rush To Judgment' & 'Six Seconds In Dallas'. EF is miles ahead in freedom of speech compared to 'back in the day' when I was back there. As Gene Kelly said above, there was a very real possibility that LHO was targeted to be killed at the TSBD. It would have made for a 'cleaner' story: sniper shoots JFK & entourage & is shot & killed while attempting to escape. Killer's rifle, spent shells & fingerprints found in the sniper's nest. Something along those lines. It would appear that someone messed up big time to allow LHO the opportunity to proclaim his innocence on TV & global newspapers if he was supposed to be eliminated in the TSBD following JFK's ambush. That might be the logical next step to take this thread from the TSBD front entrance to LHO's journey to his rooming house to arm himself. BM