Steve Thomas

What's coming across to me is that La Cavalier was SAC and right-wing. He infiltrated the OAS in service to SAC. Gary Shaw's affidavit and Fensterwald's supporting documentation was done in the 1980's - twenty years after the fact. There was that little bit about Cavalier's phone being tapped in the mid-1980's in an investigation of arms dealing. As I mentioned to Paul Brancato a while back, I've never read any first-person account of someone who said, "Yes, I saw Souetre in Louisiana and trained with him.", or, "Yes, I met with Souetre when he met General Walker, or anything from Walker that said, "Yes, I met Souetre in April, 1963" (or whenever it was supposed to have happened.) (or anything either from Souetre who said, "Yes, I met General Walker.") It's all third-hand, written twenty years after the fact and just repeated over and over. I need to learn more about ETAC. Steve Thomas

Report post Posted November 24 Jim, Perhaps this belongs in another thread, but maybe some future researcher will find this and can make better sense of it all than I can. Do you remember the old Mad Magazine, Spy vs Spy? Well the CIA has nothing on these guys. The French and Russians, Chinese too probably, have been doing this for a thousand years or more. Some notes on La Cavalier. I thought he was SAC: Footnote number 19 in A Possible French Connection: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6060&search=%22howard_hunt%22+AND+SPAIN#relPageId=44&tab=page Page 44 Aux Ordres du SAC, by Gilbert Lecavlier, 1982 (In the orders of, or under the orders of SAC) Patricia Tourancheau writing in the magazine, Liberation Ecoutes de l'Elysée: un militant d'extrême droite s'étonne d'avoir été «branché» Par Patricia Tourancheau — 10 mai 1995 https://www.liberation.fr/france-archive/1995/05/10/ecoutes-de-l-elysee-un-militant-d-extreme-droite-s-etonne-d-avoir-ete-branche_133758 Gilbert Le Cavelier, militant d'extrême droite, dont le téléphone a été «branché» neuf mois en 1985 par la cellule antiterroriste de l'Elysée au motif de «trafic d'armes», «ne voit pas sur quels critères il a été écouté» (lire Libération du 9 mars 1995). S'il a bien passé six mois au SAC (Service d'action civique) en 1968, dont il a tiré un livre, Aux ordres du SAC, Gilbert Le Cavelier se déclare avant tout «journaliste depuis 1981, carte professionnelle n$ 48.055». A ce titre, il s'insurge contre «les écoutes employées quel que soit le régime en place», mais se dit encore plus «écoeuré par l'utilisation que les uns font aujourd'hui des comptes rendus de vieilles écoutes pour dénigrer les autres». Dans l'instruction du juge Jean-Paul Valat, qui a déja mis en examen 5 anciens membres de la cellule pour «atteinte à l'intimité de la vie privée», figurent en effet les transcriptions téléphoniques de 23 personnes, dont 365 pages pour Gilbert Le Cavelier. Aujourd'hui reconverti dans les services de sécurité à Madagascar, il prétend que des «parties civiles» ayant normalement accès au dossier lui «portent tort en les divulguant» à ses employeurs: «Du coup, certains en profitent pour ficher et déstabiliser» dix ans après What follows is a Google translation: “Listening to the Elysee Palace: an extreme right-wing activist is surprised to have been "connected" Gilbert Le Cavelier, far right activist, whose phone was "plugged" nine months in 1985 by the anti-terrorist unit of the Elysée on the grounds of "arms trafficking", "does not see what criteria it was listened to "(read Libération of March 9, 1995). Although he spent six months in the SAC (Civic Action Service) in 1968, from which he pulled a book, At the SAC's orders, Gilbert Le Cavelier declares himself above all "journalist since 1981, professional card n $ 48,055" . As such, he protests against "the wiretapping used whatever the regime in place", but is said even more "sickened by the use that some are now reports of old plays to denigrate others ". In the instruction of Judge Jean-Paul Valat, who has already indicted five former members of the cell for "infringement of the privacy of privacy", in fact include the transcripts of 23 telephone, including 365 pages for Gilbert the Cavelier. Today reconverted in the security services in Madagascar, he claims that "civil parties" who normally have access to the file "wrongly by disclosing" to his employers: "Suddenly, some take the opportunity to file and destabilize" ten years later.” http://www.association-radar.org/IMG/pdf/10-008-00024-59.pdf radar.org – something about bringing together and disseminating the archives of revolutionary writings. The last paragraph reads: Jean-Claude Noury, leader of the service order New Order. Retired in 1970. Returns to ETEC with Gilbert Le Cavelier. Animated (?) in the anti-left section. Shortly thereafter joined the group, “Impact”. The paragraph above that talks about a Marie-Jose Dorot being a member of an Italian paramilitary group, “Europa Civita”. “Impact” is mentioned again in an earlier paragraph talking about protesting communist aggression in North Vietnam. Some day I'll have to try and find out what "Impact" was all about. The reference to ETEC caught my eye. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6060&search=%22howard_hunt%22+AND+SPAIN#relPageId=17&tab=page A Possible French Connection. Page 17: "Surprisingly, from July 1970 to October 1971, Souetre was a "section chief" in ETEC (Etudies Techniques et Commerciales), a cover operation run by OAS veterans Charles Lascorz and Raymond Courbet. It was a strange mixture of SDECE, SAC, and OAS. Souetre was responsible for ETEC's relations with OAS exiles in Spain, as well as relations with the Spanish Secret Police. He resigned from ETEC when he discovered the extent to which it was dominated by his old antagonists from SAC.” Steve Thomas

Supposedly, Fensterwald got much of his information from a man named, Gilbert Le Cavelier. This apparently tracks back to Dick Russell in The Man Who Knew Too Much. Cavelier was either SAC or SDECE (I don't remember now which one). You'd have to do some research on him. They were at war with the OAS, and would do whatever it took to discredit them. The idea of Hunt meeting with Souetre in Madrid in April or May goes back to a CIA memo that says that "somebody" from the CIA met with Souetre and Guerin Serac where they made an approach to the CIA and asked for their support in overthrowing DeGaulle. They were rebuffed. (I think a very bad copy of this CIA memo is on the last page of that Possible French Connection. Rather than Souetre, I would look at a man named Irving Brown as the possible CIA representative. “This is from the Fensterwald memo: See p. 30 of this Gary Shaw FOIA litigation for a man named “Brown” who was the CIA Station Chief in Paris. Russ Holmes Work File https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6060&search=Torjmann#relPageId=30&tab=page http://www.xiconhoca.org/PDF/DDeRoux/Apossiblefrenchconnection.pdf PART 1 OF 3: THE GREAT HEROIN COUP-DRUGS,INTELLIGENCE @INTERNATIONAL FASCISM “There is the example of George White, an FBN official and former OSS agent who testified to the Kefauver Committee that he had been approached on behalf of Luciano in 1943 by an old China trafficker, August del Grazio.[59] White worked closely with the CIA in the postwar years and (under FBN cover) ran one of their LSD experiments in Project MK/ULTRA. By the time of White's visit to Marseilles, the CIA and AFL organizer Irving Brown were already subsidizing the use of Corsican and Italian gangsters to oust Communist unions from the Marseilles port. Brown's CIA case officer, Paul Sakwa, has confirmed that by the time CIA subsidies were terminated in 1953, Brown's chief contact with the Marseilles underworld, Pierre Ferri Pisani, no longer needed U.S. support, because of the profits his newly gained control of the port supplied from the heroin traffic.” http://alchetron.com/Irving-Brown-775007-W “Established in France, he (Irving Brown) headed the international relations of the AFL-CIO from his offices at 10, rue de la Paix in Paris. From 1951 to 1954, the CIA division headed by Thomas Braden provided $1 million a year to Brown and Lovestone ($1,600,000 in 1954). In 1952 he was in Helsinki, supporting the unionists who had decided to vote to quit the World Federation of Trade Unions (WFTU), then mainly composed of Communist unions. During the Algerian War, he subsidized the Algerian National Movement (MNA), founded by Messali Hadj to oppose the National Liberation Front (FLN).” I don't know if this is the same “Brown who was the Station Chief in Paris” I don't know who the Station Chief in Paris was., but you've got this mix of trade unionists, the stay behind network, and heroin smuggling going on.

From Westbrook's WC testimony: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/westbrook.htm So, there would have been three people in that car. I came out on this dock, one of the men hollered and said there had been an officer killed in Oak Cliff. Well, then, of course, I ran to my radio because I am the personnel officer and that then became, of course, my greatest interest right at that time, and so, Sergeant Stringer and I and some patrolman---I don't recall his name---then drove to the immediate vicinity of where Officer Tippit had been shot and killed. Mr. BALL. Where was your car parked at that time? Mr. WESTBROOK. It wasn't my car--we didn't have one. I don't know where this officer went after he let us out at the scene. Mr. BALL. An officer drove you down to the scene? Mr. WESTBROOK. An officer drove us to the scene. Steve Thomas

Joe, Just as an aside: Mrs. ROBERTS. Right direct in front of that door-there was a police car stopped and honked. I had worked for some policemen and sometimes they come by and tell me something that maybe their wives would want me to know, and I thought it was them, and I just glanced out and saw the number, and I said, "Oh, that's not their car," for I knew their car. Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes--it stopped directly in front of my house and it just "tip-tip" and that's the way Officer Alexander and Charles Burnely would do when they stopped, Mrs. ROBERTS. No--I didn't pay that much attention--I just saw it wasn't the police car that I knew and had worked for Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, and it was in a black car. It wasn't an accident squad car at all. I can't say about Alexander, I can't find an Alexander on the force. Perhaps he had left the Police Department at that point), but Charles T. Burnley worked in the Criminal Investigation Division, Burglary and Theft Bureau under Captain Fanin. (See Batchelor Exhibit 5002 page 146. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=164&tab=page (Paul McCachren was one of the Lieutenants in that Bureau. McCachren would be assigned to the special investigation unit that Curry set up on Nov. 29th to investigate initially how Ruby got into the basement. See his testimony before the HSCA http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/mccaghr.htm ) What work had Earlene Roberts done for the police? Was it cleaning work? She knew enough to distinguish an accident squad car. Steve Thomas

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Readers of this thread might be interested in this web site: Stay-behind: les réseaux d’ingérence américains The American interference network – Gladio http://www.voltairenet.org/article8691.html#nh27 The English translation is here: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.voltairenet.org%2Farticle8691.html%23nh27 I personally found the references to Irving Brown interesting. I personally think (without any evidence mind you), that that's who Souetre and Serac met with in Madrid in May, 1963. Steve Thomas

Jim, I have one other to add. This is the Secret Service copy of the dispatch tapes. This is CD 87 beginning on page 636 and running to page 644. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=636&tab=page Steve Thomas

David, Trying to conceal your identity by tacking on an extra "S" will do you no good. Face it, you've been "outed". Steve Thomas

David, You've probably been asked this before, but did you own the Thunderbird Lounge? https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=199&tab=page Heh heh Steve Thomas

Paz, I may be behind the times, but I just learned that you can translate entire web pages. You copy the url and paste it into text box of Google translate. https://translate.google.com/ Thus, this web page http://www.parlamento.it/parlam/bicam/terror/stenografici/steno9.htm Judge Guido Salvini hearing before the Italian Parliamentary Commission of investigation on terrorism in Italy, 9th session of 12 February 1997 (9ª SEDUTA - MERCOLEDI 12 FEBBRAIO 1997, can be translated into https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parlamento.it%2Fparlam%2Fbicam%2Fterror%2Fstenografici%2Fsteno9.htm This web page explains how Magistrate Guido Salvini viewed Yves Guerin Serac and Aginter Presse. Please excuse my interruption, but I thought it might help when you are referring Americans to various Italian documents. Steve Thomas

Jim and Sandy, I'd be willing to bet that the 1:10 PM time stamp comes from CE 705 page 408 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=434&tab=page I believe that this is a mis-type in the transcript of the tapes, since the chronological order of the dispatches on the previous page (page 407) are already up to 1:16 PM. Sawyer Exhibit A 21H394 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1138#relPageId=418&tab=page has the shooting at 1:18 PM The copy of the tapes on this site: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm has the shooting at 1:16 PM George Lumpkin provided the transcripts of the DPD dispatch tapes to SA Roger Warner, which were then flown to Washington and became the Secret Service copy. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/J Disk/Justice Department of/Justice Department of JFK-King Reinvestigation/Item 05.pdf (This is a good discussion of the various copies of the tapes and how they were handled) Steve Thomas

David, Have you ever heard of a "Secret Service man" who went on the radio and repeated a rumor that the President had died? Nothing comes to my mind. And if Brewer didn't hear this "rumor" on the radio, where did he hear it from? JFK died at 1:00 PM, and Walter Cronkite announced it to the world at 1:38. Steve Thomas

The man whose picture Earlene Roberts saw on the television, and knew as O.H. Lee, could have been known to military intelligence as Oswald (comma) Harvey Lee Oswald, Harvey Lee O.H. Lee Steve Thomas

Roy, You know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see a couple of pictures of some other cars in the DPD force. It strikes me that if you wanted to disguise a certain car, police or otherwise, you might slap a magnetic sign on the side of it that looked realistic, but had a fake number painted on. Have you ever seen a picture of another Dallas police car that had a number in the 200's or 300"s? Steve Thomas

Roy, The history of Mrs. Johnson and Earlene Roberts goes way back. Mr. BALL. Now, you know Mrs. Johnson, don't you? Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; I knew her very muchly so. Mr. BALL. How long did you work for her? Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, this last time I was there around 13 months--that was the third time I had went back. Mr. BALL. When did you start working for her? Mrs. ROBERTS. I started working for her in 1949 the first time. Mr. BALL. You did? Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL And you worked for her three times altogether? Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; I got sick the first time---I'm a diabetic and wasn't able to do the work and one day she called me again and wanted to know if I would do it and I went back and stayed again and I went in a coma and had to leave, and the reason why I left this time, she cut me down so low and the work was too heavy--I wasn't able to do the work. Mr. BALL. You mean she cut you down on your money? Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, yes; and I can't pay my doctor bill and buy my medicine at that price. Mr. BALL. You mean, she didn't pay you enough--that's the reason you quit? Mrs. ROBERTS. That's the reason why I quit--the work was too heavy and I wasn't able to do it and not enough pay. (Here's another one of Jonson's lies): Mr. BALL. Miss Earlene Roberts was your housekeeper at this time? Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, she was. Mr. BALL. How long have you known her? Mrs. JOHNSON. I have known Mrs. Roberts, oh, I guess it was 6 years, something like that, 6 years. Mr. BALL. Where did you first meet her? Mrs. JOHNSON. I hired her as a housekeeper. Mr. BALL. At 1026 North Beckley? Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Has she been working for you for that period of time? Mrs. JOHNSON. No, sir; I let Mrs. Roberts go a time or two, then I would hire her back. Mr. BALL. there some reason why you let her go? Mrs. JOHNSON. Well, she would just get to being disagreeable with renters and I don't know, she has a lot of handicaps. She has an overweight problem and she has some habits that some people have to understand to tolerate. Steve Thomas

Jim, You wrote, " If you continually and falsely smear the DA’s investigation, ..." Boy, does that ever sound familiar. Steve Thomas

Jim, I read the piece. You taught me what coruscating means. Thanks, Steve Thomas

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When the President and His Chef Feuded Over Cold Beans The difference in the Johnsons' and Kennedys' tastes. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-does-the-president-eat Steve Thomas

Jim, No. No signature on Valentine's Report. Quite frankly, I really don't know where this information about the two half-dollar bills comes from. I've never seen a reference to them in any inventory I've ever seen. Here's an inventory of the items found on Oswald that's in the DPD Archives. I'm sorry, I don't have a citation for you. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/27/2707-001.gif This is a copy of the inventory found in the DPD Archives Box 1, Folder# 7, Item# 43 with some extra notes added on the side. This inventory was compiled on November 30th. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box7.htm Here's Commission Exhibit 1148 This FBI inventory was compiled by James Bookhout and is dated December 10th. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=208&tab=page They match pretty closely I think. I know Manning Clements did an inventory of the wallet he found on the desk at around 10:00 PM Friday night, but I can't put my finger on that inventory at the moment. I know there was a reference to it in the discussions about the Hidell ID card in the Forum a while back. There's nothing in the DPD Archives that list "torn", "bills", "dollars", or "half-dollars" The only listing for "money" relates to the money Ruby had on him. PS: I noticed those two torn half-dollar bills have different serial numbers on them. Steve Thomas

Jim, Just a quick little aside: The Second Platoon shift worked from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM. See p. 7 of Batchelor's Exhibit 5002, p. 124 of the pdf file https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=142&tab=page If Valentine drove the car to the TSBD and spent the afternoon helping in the search, how come the keys were turned over to Sgt. Putnam at 3:30 PM, and how did Valentine get back to the station when his shift was over so he could clock out and go home? And if the car is parked at the TSBD, how is the new Third Platoon driver of #207 supposed to get back to the car so he can drive it around? Questions, questions. Steve Thomas

Jim, DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 7, Item# 46 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box5.htm Putnam's name was J.A. Putnam, not J.M. Putnam. (Was Valentine nervous?) There is no corresponding statement from Putnam. Putnam was interviewed by the W.C., but no questions about Valentine or car# 207. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/putnam1.htm Putnam's badge# was #904. Steve Thomas

Joe, I misspoke a little bit. Earlene testified on April 8th For me, the most momentous part of Earlene's testimony comes in this passage: Mr. BALL. Do you remember the day the President was shot? Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; I remember it---who would forget that? Mr. BALL. And the police officers came out there? Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Do you remember what they said? Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was Will Fritz' men---it was plainclothesmen and I was at the back doing something and Mr. Johnson answered the door and they identified themselves and then he called me. Mr. BALL. What did they say? Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, they asked him if there was a Harvey Lee Oswald there. Mr. BALL. What did he say? Mrs. ROBERTS. And he says, "I don't know, I'll have to call the housekeeper," and he called me and I went and got the books and I said, "No; there's no one here by that name," and they tried to make me remember and I couldn't, and Mrs. Johnson come in in the meantime and there wasn't nobody there by that name, and Mrs. Johnson said, "Mrs. Roberts, don't you have him?" And, I said, "No; we don't, for here is my book and there is nobody there by that name." We checked it back a year. Mr. BALL. And you didn't have that name you didn't ever know his name was Lee Oswald? Mrs. ROBERTS. No---he registered as O. H. Lee and they were asking for Harvey Lee Oswald. CE 2003 located in (24H259) is the list submitted of TSBD employees to Captain Gannaway through Jack Revill . It is dated November 22, 1963. Heading that list is Harvey Lee Oswald at 605 Elsbeth. Steve Thomas