Ian Lloyd

If PM is holding a camera, it doesn't appear to be the most advantageous position to get a decent photograph of the president, seems to me about all he'd end up getting is a good pic of the backs of the peoples' heads in front of him...this isn't to say that I don't think he's holding a camera, the comparisons above are compelling in that respect.

Could the guy standing in the background under the tree be the person shown as figure 'E' in the TSBD doorway?

Thanks all - So, it certainly looks like it's Shelley. In which case I also doubt very much that he is the same person as the person shown as figure 'E' in the photograph shown in post 1831. Also extremely unlikely to be PM.

Oops, just saw your line above the GIF...sorry.

I've just thought - I need to check affidavits and testimony of BRW as he may have said that he was taken to the DPD with Arce and Shelley?... Just seen the GIF - the red circle seems to appear around a different person?

Thanks Tommy - has this photograph been confirmed as Shelley i.e. compared to a contemporaneous photograph of him or someone positively identifying him?

Thank you Tommy. Since I know of nothing to contrary, it must therefore be true that he wore a shirt and tie? I'm not trying to be clever or awkward, just trying to work out the PM and Shelley conundrum in my own mind - I've probably missed the absolutely positive ID of Shelley somewhere along the line.

That was Mrs Reid. I believe she got on board with her boss, Mr Truly (who penciled her name in the margin of his statement) by changing the time she had seen Oswald to corroborate the 2nd floor myth. Didn't some of LHO's other co-workers (Frazier, Jarman, Norman, BRW?) also testify that he usually took off his shirt or jacket and worked wearing just a white tee-shirt?

Shelley's testimony is suspect on many counts, but I don't think he's Prayer Man because of the clothing differences. It seems you can barely make out Prayer Man's t-shirt or bare chest under his dark shirt. Shelley was wearing a suit and tie that day. --Tommy Tommy, Would you please direct me to where this is stated as fact please. Thanks.

Which other photos of Shelley? Are they actually confirmed as being Shelley?

Hi Vanessa, Yes, I recall many people speculating regarding Shelly being depicted in that photograph but I didn't realise it had been definitively concluded that it was him. I cannot find anything absolutely conclusive in the Google images that the photograph you refer to actually depicts Shelley. Yes, he was a supervisor so may well have been wearing a shirt & tie etc.

Hi Vanessa, I didn't realise that Shelley had been definitively identified in photographs. Just wondering if he really would have been wearing shirt & tie, etc... Mr. BALL - Where had you been working? Mr. SHELLEY - I had been on the sixth floor with the boys laying that floor that morning.

Is he?... Mr. SHELLEY - In my office next to Mr. Truly's and 1 ate part of it which I do usually and finish up later on in the day but I went outside then to the front, Mr. BALL - Why did you go to the front? Mr. SHELLEY - Oh, several people were out there waiting to watch the motorcade and I went out to join them. Mr. BALL - And who was out there? Mr. SHELLEY - Well, there was Lloyd Viles of McGraw-Hill, Sarah Stanton, she's with Texas School Book, and Wesley Frazier and Billy Lovelady joined us shortly afterwards. Mr. BALL - You were standing where? Mr. SHELLEY - Just outside the glass doors there. Mr. BALL - That would be on the top landing of the entrance? Mr. SHELLEY - yes. Whilst I accept that possibly contradicts what I said, it's possible that he could have moved down a step to get a better look down Elm Street?

I suspect that PM was standing a step down from the top landing. Could PM be William Shelley?

Hi Larry, Unfortunately, I don't have my copy any more, I gave away most of my books on the assassination a few years ago to budding researchers. I do recall that O'Toole did have some odd encounters with the people he tracked down (R.D. Lewis sticks out in my memory), but I can't recall much about Hill. The book is certainly an interesting read whether you believe the voice analysis stuff or not!!

Robert, Thanks for your response - I was just wondering about it, that's all. Well done on your efforts so far, it's certainly led to another avenue of research and made a lot of people re-think the assassination.

Robert, If the first shot was at Z313 and that shot clearly mortally wounded JFK, who or what were the 2nd & 3rd shots intended for?

The Assassination Tapes by George O'Toole?... http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-assassination-tapes-electronic-Kennedy/dp/0891100008

I can't recall offhand now who it was, but in the last year or 2, a compelling case was made for Fritz having made his notes long after the "interrogation" by pulling bits out of the reports written by others who were in attendance - may be worth doing a bit of digging on it... Also, it's worth bearing in mind that, according to Fritz's good friend, Harry D. Holmes, he & Fritz had worked on many cases together and he credited both himself and Fritz with having fantastic memories and that they didn't need to rely on notes from interrogations i.e. they didn't bother making any!!!...

Also a bit disingenuous regarding the number of the cop car that sounded its horn outside his rooming house - trying to make out the car number was 10 when Earlene Roberts said she recalled it was 106 (the whole cop car number thing is another story)...

Not forgetting that the FBI report states 3 shots, 3 hits - that has never been changed.

The other thing about that picture of Shaneyfelt with the rifle on the tripod - look at the angle the rifle is at, seems quite steep to me - how does that work with any of the shots that struck the occupants of the limo?

Similar to the revolver allegedly used in Tippit's murder?...

A bit more here in CD 298... https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10699&relPageId=1

Even stranger - when I open the forum page, it says I'm signed in but when I click on a topic, the reply box doesn't appear, as if I'm not actually signed in. I had to sign out then sign in again. All of this on Chrome. On IE, it seemed to be ok and didn't show me as signed in or have my name on the bottom of the JFK home page. Seems to be a Chrome thing.