Jim Hargrove

I underestimated Mr. Bojczuk. He has posted the same old stuff about the mastoidectomy three times in the last 24 hours. I have described to him, repeatedly, possible scenarios explaining the mastoidectomy, but he simply refuses to talk about anything other than the mastoidectomy. Since he wants to repeat himself endlessly, I'll, again, show real evidence from the exhumation. Since Mr. Bojczuk perpetually points out that the LHO killed by Jack Ruby was shown by the exhumation to have had a mastoidectomy, let’s again see what else the exhumation showed. Mr. JENNER. But you do remember that you attempted to help him when he was struck in the mouth on that occasion; is that right? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out. Ed Voebel told the FBI “that he was taking photographs for inclusion in the Beauregard Yearbook and had been stopping in various classrooms, unannounced, and taking pictures of the classes in session. He stated that OSWALD’s clown-like attitude in the photograph appeared spontaneous on the part of Oswald and was not posed at the suggestion of VOEBEL.” Here is the famous photo, and some blow-up details, as it appeared in LIFE magazine As if this wasn’t enough proof, Sandy Larsen discovered confirmation of the missing tooth in a Marine Corps dental record indicating that the PROSTHESIS “FAILED 5-5-58.” Here is how www.medicine.net defines “Prosthesis:” Prosthesis: An artificial replacement of a part of the body, such as a tooth, a facial bone, the palate, or a joint. A prosthesis may be removable, as in the case of most prosthetic legs or a prosthetic breast form used after mastectomy. Can there be any doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald lost at least one tooth at an early age? H&L critics have to try and create doubt, because the body exhumed in 1981 clearly had these teeth intact. Below is a high quality copy of an ORIGINAL exhumation photo Marina Oswald Porter handed to John Armstrong during one of their meetings in the 1990s.

Natalie Ray attended that post-Christmas party Katya Ford held in Dallas in 1962, and how she described LHO’s command of the Russian language was really quite funny. On p. 426 of Harvey and Lee, John indicated what Natalie Ray and a half dozen other attendees of the party thought about Oswald’s Russian skills: Natalie Ray was asked by Commission attorney Wesley Liebeler, "Did he (Oswald) speak to you in Russian?" Mrs. Ray replied, "Yes; just perfect; re­- ally surprised me .... .it's just too good speaking Russian for be such a short time, you know .... .l said, 'How come you speak so good Russian? I been here so long and still don't speak very well English.” George Bouhe was asked by Liebeler, "Did Oswald's command of the Rus­- sian language seem to be about what you would expect from him, having been in Russia for that period of time? Would you say it was good?" Bouhe replied, "I would say very good."170 Mrs. Teofil (Anna) Meller was asked by Liebeler, "Do you think that his com­- mand of the Russian language was better than you would expect for the pe­- riod of time that he had spent in Russia?" Mrs. Meller replied, "Yes; absolutely better than I would expect." Elena Hall was asked by Liebeler, "In your opinion, Lee did have a good command of the Russian language?" Mrs. Hall replied, "Very good ..... " Mrs. Dymitruk was asked by Commission attorney Albert Jenner, "He did speak Russian?" Mrs. Dymitruk replied, "Yes; and I was really surprised--in short time, he spoke nicely." George DeMohrenschildt told Jenner, "He loved to speak Russian ..... he spoke fluent Russian ..... he had a remarkable fluency in Russian ..... he preferred to speak Russian than English any time. He always would switch from English to Russian." Peter Gregory told Warren Commission Representative Gerald Ford, "I thought that Lee Oswald spoke (Russian) with a Polish accent, that is why I asked him if he was of Polish decent." This party, of course, was after Harvey spent two and a half years in Russia. Some H&L critics will just claim Oswald was a fast learner, or that he was given Russian-language training in the military. John’s interviews with Harvey’s fellow Marines, however, show that it is unlikely that he had any real opportunity for the kind of protracted language training needed to learn Russian that well BEFORE ever reaching the Soviet Union.

No, I've posted that list only twice in my life. You're thinking of Jeremy Bojczuk, who has posted the same material about the mastoidectomy every day for years. Watch... he'll do it again in less than 24 hours.

Apparently not. John A. interviewed a number of Marines who said, prior to being stationed for the last time in California, LHO was NOT studying Russian, had no time to do so, and gave no indication of understanding the language. And yet, he got more Russian questions right than wrong in a military language exam that, according to Vincent Bugliosi, was designed for native speakers. He got essentially the same grade (‘poor’) in the Russian language exam as he got in English comprehension tests. And this was before he ever set foot in the Soviet Union. Oswald clearly spoke Russian and read Russian literature in the Marines prior to his false defection to Russia. In his affidavit of June 6, 1964, Erwin Donald Lewis, stationed with Oswald at MACS-9 in California, swore that “It was a matter of common knowledge among squadron members that he could read, write, and speak Russian.” While in Russia, Oswald pretended his Russian was so bad he needed a translator. And yet Marina testified that he privately read “Russian classic writers” in Russian. Mr. McDONALD. Did he read a lot when he was in the Soviet Union? Mrs. PORTER. Yes. Mr. McDONALD. What kind of books did he read there? Mrs. PORTER. Novels mostly. Mr. McDONALD. What kind of novels? Mrs. PORTER. What you call maybe as classical novels, some Russian classic writers. Mr. McDONALD. The novels or the books that he read in the Soviet Union, were they in Russian? Mrs. PORTER. They were in Russian; yes. When he returned to the U.S., the White Russians in and around Dallas were amazed at his fluency in the language attained in the 2-1/2 years he spent there. In his manuscript I AM A PATSY! I AM A PATSY! Russian immigrant George De Mohrenschildt, who Harvey in 1963 called his closest friend, described his amazement at Harvey’s Russian fluency. For those who can’t see the graphic above, here’s what the main paragraph from this page of De Mohrenschildt's manuscript says: Incidentally I never saw him interested in anything else except Russian books and magazines. He said he didn't want to forget the language - but it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski, Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff - in Russian . As everyone knows Russian is a complex language and he was supposed to have stayed in the Soviet Union only a little over two years . He must have had some previous training and that point had never been brught up by the Warren Committee - and it is still puzzling to me. In my opinion Lee was a very bright person but not a genius. He never mastered the English language yet he learned such a dif- icult language! I taught Russian at all level in a large University, and I never saw such a profficiency in the best senior students who constantly listened to Russian tapes and spoke to Russian fiends. As a matter of fact American-born instructors never mastered Russian spoken language as well as Lee did. De Mohrenschildt would have made a fascinating witness at the HSCA hearings and, in fact, in early 1977 the HSCA sought to interview him. But on March 30 he was found in his home with a shotgun blast to his head.

Mr. Bojczuk needs only to look at the first page of this topic to see that John A. hardly needs any help from me or anyone else here to add to the impact of his research. H&L data is widespread in this field. In his daily posts whining about the mastoidectomy and John’s coverage of it, Mr. Bojczuk always fails to acknowledge that we have discussed this before, pointing out numerous ways it can be resolved in the H&L framework. Among the possible explanations, It was Russian-speaking Harvey, not American-born Lee, who had the mastoidectomy all along. Hoover just altered a report or two to make the medical histories match. The same fine people who brought children and the MKULTRA program together decided it was their patriotic duty to drill a small hole in a kid’s skull by his ear (a mastoidectomy) in order to make the medical histories match. It was "Marguerite's" housekeeper in New York City who said the child was getting mental tests at Jacobi Hospital, at the very time he was so often truant from PS 117. She, or the FBI agent describing her remarks, obviously meant the hospital that pre-dated Jacobi at the same location. Both young men may have acquired the procedure naturally, since mastoidectomies were once far more common than they are now. Of course, Mr. Bojczuk wants to talk only about the mastoidectomy and to declare all other evidence for two Oswalds a “distraction,” but his wish is hardly my command. Let’s continue to look at some other evidence for the two Oswalds. 1963: Harvey in New Orleans, Lee in Dallas In the summer of 1963, when the Russian-speaking Lee HARVEY Oswald was in New Orleans pretending to be a pro-Castro commie, a lot of people saw American-born LEE Harvey Oswald hanging around with Jack Ruby in Dallas. Among these people were Dorothy Marcum, Francis Irene Hise, Helen Smith (“Pixie Lynn”) , Dixie Lynn, Kathy Kay, and others. Journalist Dorothy Kilgallen wrote in the New York Journal American (June 6, 1964): “It is known that 10 persons have signed sworn depositions to the Warren Commission that they knew Oswald and Ruby to have been acquainted.” A few months ago Gary Shaw sent John A. a 10-page FBI report on a 1977 interview with a Ruby employee named Odell “James” Estes. Estes told the FBI he worked at the Carousel Club from the last week in June until Sept. 2, 1963. Estes said he saw “Lee Oswald” at the Carousel Club many times during his employment there, including in Jack Ruby’s office. He said he once drove Oswald to Love Field and even took two overnight fishing trips with Oswald to a lakeside cabin near Mineral Wells. He described lengthy talks with this Oswald. Since he (Estes) stopped working at the club on Sept. 2, he was quite certain that the two fishing trips, just a week apart, were both in August 1963. Of course, in August 1963, Classic Oswald® was still in New Orleans. Despite this depiction of “Oswald” being in New Orleans and Dallas simultaneously, an FBI cover memo states that Estes was “willing to submit to a polygraph examination” and “talked very coherently and did not evidence the mannerisms frequently associated with a mentally disturbed individual.” It should be noted that although the 1977 FBI report indicated Estes was “80 percent blind,” in 1963 he could see well enough to drive a car. A 10-page report on Odell Estes’ FBI interview can be read on the Mary Ferrell site at the link below: ODELL ESTES FBI REPORT

from Harvey and Lee, p. 274: In 1978 the HSCA wanted to interview Marilyn Murret. On January 31, 1978 the Act­- ing Legislative Counsel for the CIA, Lyle L. Miller, wrote a letter to the HSCA (House Select Committee on Assassinations). The letter stated, "So far as this Agency (CIA) is concerned, there is no reason why Dorothy Marilyn Murret should not respond fully and completely to any inquiry relevant to the investigation by the HSCA." Why would the HSCA need to obtain the CIA's permission to question an ordinary US citizen who was not supposed to have any connections to US intelligence agencies? The issuance of a let­- ter by the CIA referring to Marilyn Murret strongly suggests that she was either working for, or had connections to, the CIA. The HSCA finally interviewed Marilyn Murret in 1978, but the 23-page transcript of her interview to this day is marked, "Referred--postponed in full. " Why? John also points out that she managed to travel the world on a teacher's salary.

Mr. Bojczuk nearly every day for years has used the mastoidectomy to declare his case closed. To do so, of course, he must declare that only the mastoidectomy is relevant to the case of two Oswalds, that there are no other explanations for the mastoidectomy, and that all the other evidence is irrelevant, a “distraction.” Let’s consider just a handful of other examples of the evidence for two Oswalds. 1. Way back in 1948, one LHO was living at 101 San Saba in Benbrook while the other was at 3330 Willig St. (and then 7408 Ewing) in Fort Worth. 2. In 1953 the Russian-speaking LHO (Harvey) was sent to Youth House for truancy, fled to Stanley, North Dakota to avoid further entanglement with the NYC legal system, and started attending Beauregard JHS in New Orleans that fall, all the while the American-born LHO (Lee) had good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC. 3. During the fall semester of 1954, Harvey attended Stripling School in Fort Worth while Lee attended Beauregard School in New Orleans,. 4. By the mid-1950s, both Oswalds had various sometimes conflicting jobs, which eventually required the FBI to destroy all the original employment (and school) records for both young men and to create a false employment and education legend. The Social Security Administration refused to corroborate the Official Story® of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps." 5. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: My favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan. Other examples from USMC unit diaries and testimony show how the two LHOs associated with completely different groups of Marines both early and late in their enlistment periods. 6. While Russian-speaking HARVEY was in the Soviet Union, American-born LEE was active briefly as an agent provocateur in NYC, working with Marita Lorenz and anti-Castro Cubans in and around Florida, visiting Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans, and much more. 7. One Oswald never had a driver’s license and could not drive while the other had a valid Texas driver’s license and could drive, including doing work for Jack Ruby in 1963 involving cars. 8. American-born LEE Oswald appeared in Baytown, TX on Labor Day weekend in 1963 attempting to purchase rifles from Fidel Castro’s friend and gun supplier Robert McKeown. At the time, Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald and his family were on holiday with the Murrets at Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana. 9. In October 1963, two different young men, both claiming to be “Lee Harvey Oswald,” appeared before Texas Employment Commission employee Laura Kittrell, the first on October 3 and again a few days later, the second on October 22. Ms Kittell told the HSCA’s Gaeton Fonzi that the second Oswald “looked the same,” and had “the same general outline and coloring and build, but there was something so different in his bearing.” 10. While the other Oswald was elsewhere, LEE Oswald visited the Sports Drome Rifle Range on Oct. 26, Nov. 9, Nov. 10, and again on Nov. 17, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target; 11. On Nov. 2 one LHO visited Morgan's Gun Shop in Fort Worth. 12. Also on Nov. 2 LEE Oswald visited the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership where he test drove a car at recklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car. (Remember that Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald did not have a driver’s license.) 13. On Nov. 6 or 7 LEE Oswald visited the Irving Furniture Mart for a gun part and was referred by the ladies there to the shop where Dial Ryder worked. 14. On Nov. 15, LEE Oswald went to the Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) and applied for a job and asked how high the Southland Building was and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas. 15. On Nov. 20 “Oswald” hitch-hiked on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4 foot long package wrapped in brown paper and introduced himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald,” discussed the President's visit, and asked to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” was already working). 16. On Nov. 22, both LHOs were in Dealey Plaza. One left in a bus and then a taxi; the other got into a Nash Rambler station wagon. Each of the 16 topics above, and others, can be discussed in more detail. Details for all are provided at HarveyandLee.net, and in even greater detail in the Harvey and Lee book. Of course, the H&L critics want everyone to believe this is all a distraction. It is not a distraction. It is EVIDENCE!

They do, though, because that’s what the EVIDENCE shows. I believe Hoover and his FBI made every effort to collect and destroy the evidence for the two LHOs, but it is difficult to make an entire life disappear, and they made enough mistakes that we can piece together what actually happened. Why did FBI agents appear within hours of the assassination to seize all the original school and early employment records of “Lee Harvey Oswald?” In any honest investigation, Hoover could not possibly have determined whether there were co-conspirators or whether other U.S. government officials were also targeted. And yet he spent considerable resources seizing and promptly losing all sorts of records about a child. As John Armstrong and the ARRB’s Joe Freeman discovered, all the original copies of the school and employment records of LHO disappeared, replaced by b&w photographic copies. We know from surviving correspondence that in 1964, for some reason, the Warren Commission asked the FBI for the originals of the NYC school records of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” but that, even at that early date, they had already disappeared. New York City officials, including Judge Florence Kelley and NYC Mayor Robert Wagner were involved in a correspondence attempting to ascertain what had happened to the original school records of LHO, which apparently disappeared after Judge Kelley personally handed the originals to FBI SA John Malone. In this post, I present John’s evidence, including five supporting documents, showing how the original NYC school records disappeared in 1964. Why did Hoover decide that all this material had to disappear? What was he hiding? I know. One of the ways I know is the evidence presented in this very thread. You suggest also that LHO learned Russian because he was secretly tutored in it while in the Marines. This is very logical assumption, one that John A. carefully considered in the opening pages of Harvey and Lee. John took this possibility seriously enough that he began tracking down and questioning soldiers who knew LHO from the Marines (in this case, actually the American-born LHO). One person was Zack Stout, who worked with LHO for nearly a year in Atsugi, the Philippines, Corregidor, and Subic Bay. Here’s what Zack said to John during a lengthy interview from the 1990s: I asked Zack if [he] ever saw Oswald study the Russian language. Zack said, "Most of the time we were with a mobile radar unit. Shortly after he arrived we left Japan and traveled constantly from location to location in the South China Sea (beginning in November 1957). I know Oswald didn't attend any Russian classes or read any Russian books or listen to any Russian records. He didn't have anywhere to get such materials and if he had them we (Stout and fellow Marines) would have known about it. We slept in the same bunkhouse and most of the time worked on the same radar crew. The idea that Oswald studied Russian in Japan is ridiculous--it just didn't happen."2 – Harvey and Lee, p. 5 But soon afterward, we have Comrade Oswaldovitch reading Russian newspapers, listening to Russian music, and carrying on a Russian conversation with a Russian language student at the little Marine Corps Air Facility in Santa Ana, California. (At the same time, the American-born LHO was at the larger Marine Corps Air Station in nearby El Toro, California.) Next up is Mother Russia.

Question for RCD: Why do you care more about the definition of "testimony" than you care about the evidence that "Lee Harvey Oswald?" was a U.S. government asset? Are you just trying to provoke fights here? Why? What do you want to accomplish?

Mr. Bojczuk’s explanation for the American-born LHO’s missing tooth requires that you disbelieve what you see with your own eyes. Look at the photo. Look at the testimony of the man who took the photo and who helped clean up LHO after the fight that resulted in the tooth loss. Look at the Marine Corps dental records showing a prosthesis that “FAILED 5-5-58.” Game, set, and match. Even though he knows there are several logical explanations for the mastoidectomy (mine is that it was the Russian-speaking LHO all along who had it, not the American-born LHO), Mr. Bojczuk nearly every day for years has used the mastoidectomy to declare his case closed. To do so, of course, he must declare that only the mastoidectomy is relevant to the case of two Oswalds, that there are no other explanations for the mastoidectomy, and that all the other evidence is irrelevant, a “distraction.” Let’s consider just a handful of other examples of the evidence for two Oswalds. 1. Way back in 1948, one LHO was living at 101 San Saba in Benbrook while the other was at 3330 Willig St. (and then 7408 Ewing) in Fort Worth. 2. In 1953 the Russian-speaking LHO (Harvey) was sent to Youth House for truancy, fled to Stanley, North Dakota to avoid further entanglement with the NYC legal system, and started attending Beauregard JHS in New Orleans that fall, all the while the American-born LHO (Lee) had good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC. 3. During the fall semester of 1954, Harvey attended Stripling School in Fort Worth while Lee attended Beauregard School in New Orleans,. 4. By the mid-1950s, both Oswalds had various sometimes conflicting jobs, which eventually required the FBI to destroy all the original employment (and school) records for both young men and to create a false employment and education legend. The Social Security Administration refused to corroborate the Official Story® of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps." 5. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: My favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan. Other examples from USMC unit diaries and testimony show how the two LHOs associated with completely different groups of Marines both early and late in their enlistment periods. 6. While Russian-speaking HARVEY was in the Soviet Union, American-born LEE was active briefly as an agent provocateur in NYC, working with Marita Lorenz and anti-Castro Cubans in and around Florida, visiting Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans, and much more. 7. One Oswald never had a driver’s license and could not drive while the other had a valid Texas driver’s license and could drive, including doing work for Jack Ruby in 1963 involving cars. 8. American-born LEE Oswald appeared in Baytown, TX on Labor Day weekend in 1963 attempting to purchase rifles from Fidel Castro’s friend and gun supplier Robert McKeown. At the time, Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald and his family were on holiday with the Murrets at Lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana. 9. In October 1963, two different young men, both claiming to be “Lee Harvey Oswald,” appeared before Texas Employment Commission employee Laura Kittrell, the first on October 3 and again a few days later, the second on October 22. Ms Kittell told the HSCA’s Gaeton Fonzi that the second Oswald “looked the same,” and had “the same general outline and coloring and build, but there was something so different in his bearing.” 10. While the other Oswald was elsewhere, LEE Oswald visited the Sports Drome Rifle Range on Oct. 26, Nov. 9, Nov. 10, and again on Nov. 17, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target; 11. On Nov. 2 one LHO visited Morgan's Gun Shop in Fort Worth. 12. Also on Nov. 2 LEE Oswald visited the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership where he test drove a car at recklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car. (Remember that Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald did not have a driver’s license.) 13. On Nov. 6 or 7 LEE Oswald visited the Irving Furniture Mart for a gun part and was referred by the ladies there to the shop where Dial Ryder worked. 14. On Nov. 15, LEE Oswald went to the Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) and applied for a job and asked how high the Southland Building was and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas. 15. On Nov. 20 “Oswald” hitch-hiked on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4 foot long package wrapped in brown paper and introduced himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald,” discussed the President's visit, and asked to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” was already working). 16. On Nov. 22, both LHOs were in Dealey Plaza. One left in a bus and then a taxi; the other got into a Nash Rambler station wagon. Each of the 16 topics above, and others, can be discussed in more detail. Details for all are provided HarveyandLee.net, and in even greater detail in the Harvey and Lee book. Of course, the H&L critics want everyone to believe this is all a distraction. It is not a distraction. It is EVIDENCE!

Since Mr. Bojczuk perpetually points out that the LHO killed by Jack Ruby was shown by the exhumation to have had a mastoidectomy, let’s again see what else the exhumation showed. Mr. JENNER. But you do remember that you attempted to help him when he was struck in the mouth on that occasion; is that right? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out. Ed Voebel told the FBI “that he was taking photographs for inclusion in the Beauregard Yearbook and had been stopping in various classrooms, unannounced, and taking pictures of the classes in session. He stated that OSWALD’s clown-like attitude in the photograph appeared spontaneous on the part of Oswald and was not posed at the suggestion of VOEBEL.” Here is the famous photo, and some blow-up details, as it appeared in LIFE magazine As if this wasn’t enough proof, Sandy Larsen discovered confirmation of the missing tooth in a Marine Corps dental record indicating that the PROSTHESIS “FAILED 5-5-58.” Here is how www.medicine.net defines “Prosthesis:” Prosthesis: An artificial replacement of a part of the body, such as a tooth, a facial bone, the palate, or a joint. A prosthesis may be removable, as in the case of most prosthetic legs or a prosthetic breast form used after mastectomy. Can there be any doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald lost at least one tooth at an early age? H&L critics have to try and create doubt, because the body exhumed in 1981 clearly had these teeth intact. Below is a high quality copy of an ORIGINAL exhumation photo Marina Oswald Porter handed to John Armstrong during one of their meetings in the 1990s.

Call me crazy, but would anyone here like to look beyond all the INSULTS and see some actual EVIDENCE? Here, I found some... and it didn't take long.... At the beginning of the 2nd semester (eighth grade), in January, 1954, HARVEY walked into Myra DaRouse's eighth grade home room in the basement cafeteria. The 1953-54 school year was the only year during which Myra had a home room, and she remembered the day she met young Oswald. Myra told me, "Well, the first day he came into my homeroom he handed me his file. When I read that his name was Lee Harvey Oswald, I said to him, 'how do you want to be called,' and he told me to call him HARVEY. So, I always called him HARVEY. I knew him only as HARVEY." This was the second time that the thin, slender young man called himself "HARVEY." In 1954 young Oswald wanted to be called "HARVEY," so after talking with Bill Timmer and Myra DaRouse I began referring to the smaller, thinner, quiet Oswald as "HARVEY." click here for 1997 interview of Myra DaRouse Myra described young HARVEY as "a little fellow, scrawny, skinny, and quiet. He came to the middle of my chest-about 4 ft 6 inches tall." When LEE Oswald began attending Beauregard JHS in January, 1954, he filled out a personal history sheet whereupon he listed his height at 5'5" and his weight at 135 lbs. LEE Oswald was much heavier and slightly taller than Myra, whereas HARVEY Oswald was very thin and quite a bit shorter than Myra. She saw HARVEY nearly every day before school, sitting on the front steps waiting for the school to open, and thought he was lonely. She saw him in her homeroom class, in the school library, and after school riding bicycles on the school grounds with Ed Voebel. On one occasion, after school, Voebel ran up to Myra and shouted, "Miss DaRouse come quick... come quick... a piano fell on HARVEY." Myra and fellow teacher Dorothy Duvic followed Voebel into the basement cafeteria and found HARVEY, on the floor, with a small upright piano lying across his legs. The two women lifted the piano off of HARVEY and then, with the Principal's permission, Myra drove HARVEY to the Monte Lepre Clinic on Canal Street. After examination by a physician, Myra drove HARVEY to his home on Exchange Alley and asked where his mother was. HARVEY replied, "She's working in a bar." A photograph of HARVEY's caretaker, the Marguerite Oswald imposter, was taken during the spring of 1954 in the apartment on Exchange Alley. Marguerite Oswald imposter in 1954 in the apartment at 126 Exchange Place, New Orleans 1994 image of 126 Exchange Alley in New Orleans (J. Armstrong)

I might be “actually one item in a pair of doppelgangers?” What EXACTLY are you accusing me of? I can assure you that I am posting here under my real name, and have included a real photo of myself as required by forum rules. Accusing me of being here under a false identity clearly violates forum rules. Beyond that, you continuously misrepresent what people say, and then knock down the straw man argument you invented. Show me where I ever claimed James Wilcott was aware of two LHOs or made any statement about two Oswalds? Provide a specific link! The evidence clearly shows there was an “Oswald Project.” Mr. Wilcott referred to it, although he was also apparently unaware there were two LHOs. Neither I nor Dr. Norwood has ever said James Wilcott knew about the two Oswalds. This appears to be just your attempt to misrepresent our arguments in an effort to score points with casual readers. I expect an explanation about why I may be “actually one item in a pair of doppelgangers.”

Interesting. A quick googling of Crowley led to all kinds of hits. Is there more info out there supporting your suspicion? Can you recommend a good starting place to look for it? Speaking of MK/Ultra.... Louise Robertson was a housekeeper in NYC, employed by the Marguerite Oswald impostor for 6 weeks in the summer of 1953 to clean her apartment 2 or 3 days per week. Mrs. "Oswald" (the impostor) told Louise that she had brought her son to New York so that he could have mental tests performed at the Jacobi Hospital. Could young HARVEY Oswald, instead of truanting, have been spending some of his days receiving psychiatric evaluation, mental tests, drug induced hypnosis? --from The Early Years of Harvey and Lee

I think Mysterious Marge fled NYC to Stanley, ND (summer 1953) and then to New Orleans (fall 1953) not so much because of previous schooling documentation problems but because her charge’s truancy had entangled him with the New York legal system and she (and her handler?) simply couldn’t risk the legal scrutiny. The American-born LHO was still enrolled at PS44 in NYC. John A. cites several instances when she couldn’t produce her own documentation to employers for insurance or bonding requirements. I’d certainly think that the Marguerite impostor had someone more or less overseeing her actions, but if there is any evidence for this in John’s research, I can’t think of it. Maybe someone else here can.

That's very funny! You know them all too well.... “Oswald subscribed to a newspaper printed in Russian, which I believe he said was published in San Francisco.” –James Anthony Botelho, from his Marine affidavit of June 3, 1964. Here's an image of a Russian language newspaper printed in San Francisco that is probably similar to the one Oswald reportedly read in the Marine corps while stationed in California. Can you imagine teaching yourself in your spare time to read a newspaper like this? Interesting, too, that it bills itself as an "Anticommunist Newspaper."

Robert, I believe the Oswald project was created by American Intel (around or just prior to the time the CIA was created) and its purpose was to give a Russian-speaking youth an American I.D. so he could travel to the Soviet Union as a false defector and pretend he didn’t understand the Russian language. The whole idea was to give the Russian-speaking LHO experiences as similar as possible to the American-born LHO so he could pass a background check by Soviet authorities. For example, we have presented evidence that both LHOs attended Beauregard School in New Orleans. Why? Imagine a Soviet official in Moscow looking into the background of this “defector.” With a little info from an asset in the United States, he might ask a question such as this: “Say, Comrade, this Beauregard School you go to; where you eat lunch there--first floor, second floor, third, basement, roof? Where?” Potential questions such as that required that the long-term impostor have as many experiences as possible similar to the birth LHO. A real key here is the Russian language skills of the kid who assumed the identity of LHO, who had substantial Russian language skills before he ever set foot in the Soviet Union. An excellent and reasonably concise description of LHO’s Russian language abilities is presented by Dr. James Norwood here: Oswald’s Proficiency in the Russian Language As to what happened to the two LHOs, one (the Russian-speaking youth) was shot dead by Jack Ruby. The other may have been allowed to live. John Armstrong did a lot of work researching this, but he was never confident enough in his findings to even mention them in the book. But if you’re interested in one theory, try Goggling “Donald O. Norton”, but don’t confuse the results with CIA agent “Donald P. Norton.”

And Dr. Norwood's debunking of Mark Stevens' attempt is here:

From Baylor Univ. John Armstrong Collection: Other Fort Worth Criss Cross Directory pages that John copied are available here: https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/marguerite-oswald/697171 From Harvey and Lee, p. 102: Residents of 2220 Thomas Place In 1940 the duplex at 2220 Thomas Place was purchased by Edna Pendleton. There were two apartments-one in the front (apt. "A"), and one in the rear (apt. "B"). In 1946 and 1947 Mrs. Rufie Cox occupied apartment "A," while Erwin and Velda Schmutz occupied apartment "B." From 1948 thru 1954 Mrs. Rufie Cox occupied apart- ment "A," but there was no listing for anyone in apartment "B." In 1955, Mrs. Rufie Cox occupied apartment "A," and W. A. Hazelwood occupied apartment "B." On February 13, 1963 the property was purchased by Mary Ann McCarthy, al- legedly a close friend of Fort Worth attorney Fred Korth. Korth represented Edwin Ekdahl in his 194 7 divorce from Marguerite Oswald, became Secretary of the Navy, and resigned his position only one month before the assassination. The 1964 and 1965 Fort Worth city directories show the tenant in apartment "B" as M. C. Oswald. In 1978 the property was sold to John H. Clarke and soon the small duplex was torn down and re­ placed by a new two story, wood frame building.

Thanks, DJ! Can anyone spot the usual FBI bs here?

Robert Oswald and LHO and Stripling School In this FBI report, Mrs. James L. Taylor, manager of the 4-unit apartment house at 4936 Collinwood in Fort Worth, indicated that she rented the upper west apartment in the building to Marguerite Oswald on July 1, 1956. She added, “Mrs. Oswald was accompanied by her two sons, LEE and ROBERT.” She also said that “a few weeks after the Oswalds moved into the apartment, ROBERT married and moved away from the address.” The apartment house at 4936 Collinwood was about ten blocks west of Stripling School. At the little apartment on Collinwood, Robert and LHO almost surely compared notes about their experiences at Stripling School, which Robert had attended in 1948 and LHO in 1954. Fall Semester, 1954 Despite the efforts of some on this forum to discount it, the evidence for LHO’s attendance at Stripling School in simply enormous. The earliest descriptions by Robert Oswald of LHO’s attendance at Stripling School, made well before the Kennedy Assassination, would be considered by most people to be the most reliable. Again, Robert Oswald attended Stripling School in 1948 and 1949; LHO attended the same school in 1954. Two years later, in 1956, Robert and LHO lived together at 4936 Collinwood, about 10 blocks from Stripling. There, they had every opportunity to compare their experiences about the school. Just three years after that, in 1959, and again a few years later, the Fort Worth newspaper quoted Robert as saying that that LHO attended Stripling School “about a year before he enlisted in the Marines.” There is no reason on earth not to consider this as Robert’s most reliable statement about Stripling. It was his earliest known public quote about the school and was made four or five years before the Kennedy Assassination and the FBI/WC “investigation” clouded the truth and put enormous pressure on witnesses to tow the line of the Official Story. It was, and still is, common knowledge among local Stripling School district residents and current and former students and teachers that Lee Harvey Oswald attended Stripling School in the 1950s. The Fort Worth Star-Telegram confirmed this simple fact in an article published in 2017 and updated in 2019. Here is a screenshot of the article from the online edition of the newspaper: Once again, This 1959 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling. This 1962 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling. Published two days after the assassination of JFK, this Fort Worth Star-Telegram article reported: “He attended Stripling Junior High School and Arlington Heights High School before joining the Marines.” In his 1964 Warren Commission testimony, Robert Oswald said that LHO attended Stripling School. This May 11, 2002 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicated that “a boy walked to Stripling from a home nearby. His mother was living in a home behind the school on Thomas Place by 1963, when the world learned the name Lee Harvey Oswald.” And then, of course, there is the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article from 2017 mentioned above. Way back on December 27, 1993, John Armstrong wrote to Ricardo Galindo, the then current principal of Stripling School, asking if there were any records for Lee Harvey Oswald's attendance the school. Mr. Galindo telephoned John back and said that, although there were no records, it was “common knowledge” that LHO had attended the school. [Harvey and Lee, p. 97] In this 1997 interview, Stripling Student Fran Schubert watched LHO walk from the school to his house at 2220 Thomas Place just across the street from the school. And, of course, in a 1997 interview, the assistant principal of Stripling School described how he met two FBI agents at Stripling less than 24 hours after the assassination and gave them the records for LHO. H&L critics can only say that Frank Kudlaty, who went on to become the Superintendent of Schools for Waco, Texas, was mistaken (about his entire story of meeting FBI agents hours after the assassination???) or lying. Fall Semester, 1953 One year earlier, in the fall of 1953, school records published by the Warren Commission show that one LHO attended Beauregard School in New Orleans at the same time another LHO was at Public School 44 in New York City. In the fall semester of 1953, one LHO attended Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days. Also in the fall semester of 1953, the other LHO was present at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans for 89 school days. One year later, one LHO attended Beauregard School in New Orleans while the other was indeed enrolled in Stripling School in Fort Worth. The evidence clearly suggests that two LHOs were attending two different schools in the fall semesters of 1953 and 1954. So where were they in the one school semester between the other two? Spring Semester, 1954 Although the evidence is thinner and contradictory, John A. believes that both LHOs attended Beauregard School in the 1954 spring semester. John’s write-up relies heavily on the interview with Myra DaRouse, and notes that in a school with nearly 700 students, one LHO had home room 303 on the third floor, the other had his home room with Myra DaRouse in the basement cafeteria. Since one kid preferred to be called Lee, and the other Harvey, who would notice these two boys out of nearly 700 other students--other than a records keeper in the office? Photocopy machines were not in general use in those days, and so the records must have been merged—by someone--in the cumulative record we see. It could have been done by school personnel, or by the FBI. Sandy Larsen made a pretty good case in another thread that it could have happened naturally back in the day. Two people who agree wholeheartedly with the basic H&L premise have told me privately that envisioning both LHOs at Beauregard simultaneously is hard to believe. Perhaps so. But, despite numerous attempts to debunk it, John A. has made a strong case for the two LHOs in two different school in the semester immediately before and after the spring 1954 semester. Recall that the whole idea of the Oswald project was to give a Russian-speaking youth an American I.D. so he could travel to the Soviet Union and pretend he didn’t understand the Russian language. Having similar American experiences to the boy whose ID he borrowed would be important if Soviet officials began to look into his background.

Can anyone debunk this? Just asking....

Megathanks for this explanation, Sandy. I thought Mr. Krome was talking about the Johnny and Mike Neumeyer fight, and the subsequent sucker punch. Obviously not, though. I suspect that Ed Voebel's WC testimony was altered, and here's why. We know full well that the WC altered witness testimony. For example: If memory serves, Roger Craig also said his WC testimony was altered many times. I’ll bet others have said the same thing. I don’t know what happened in 1971 to precipitate Ed Voebel’s killing. It was way too early for concerns about the HSCA. But repercussions in 1971, just eight years after the Kennedy hit, were surely as intense or more intense than they are today, 57 years later. I've thought about this for years. Look at Mr. Voebel's testimony (emphasis added): Mr. JENNER. When did you first become acquainted with Lee Harvey Oswald, and under which circumstances? Just tell me generally how that came about. Mr. VOEBEL. Well, it was at school. Mr. JENNER. Is that Beauregard Junior High School? Mr. VOEBEL. Yes, sir. Mr. JENNER. Do you know what year that was? Mr. VOEBEL. Let's see. I will have to figure that out. That was about 1954 or 1955. Mr. JENNER. How did you become aware of him? Mr. VOEBEL. Going to school there. Do you want me to tell you the whole story? Mr. JENNER. Well, let's get in a few preliminary remarks first. I would like to have a little background in the record before we go into that. Mr. VOEBEL. Yes, sir. I don't exactly remember when I first saw him because I might have seen him going to school and back without knowing who it was, but I really became acquainted with him when he had this fight with this boy, and we took him back into the boy's restroom and tried to patch him up a bit. Where are the preliminary remarks Mr. Jenner asked for? Why does Ed Voebel launch into the whole story right away? Was something cut? Why did Ed Voebel die at the age of 32 at Ochsner Clinic?

Ed Voebel knew both LHOs when each attended Beauregard, although he probably regarded them as just two different kids with the same last name. As Myra DaRouse indicated in the interview, the piano episode with HARVEY occurred during the spring semester of 1954, well before the fight. The fight between LEE Oswald and Johnny and Mike Neumeyer occurred in the next school year, probably October of 1954, while LEE was still at Beauregard in New Orleans and HARVEY was at Stripling in Fort Worth. There’s a lot more to all of this, especially involving Mr. Voebel following the assassination, but he may have been another man who simply knew too much. Here’s how John wrote about his early death on the EARLY YEARS page of HarveyandLee.net. Ed Voebel's knowledge of HARVEY and LEE may have been the reason that he died at the young age of 32, only one day after being admitted to the Ochsner Clinic in New Orleans in May, 1971. Voebel's father said that his son, healthy one day and dead the following day, died under mysterious circumstances. He told the House Select Committee on Assassinations that he thought his son's death had something to do with Oswald and the JFK assassination, but he had no proof.

Stanley, North Dakota Throughout late 1952 and early 1953, the Russian-speaking LHO was chronically absent from Public School 117 in New York City. The truancy landed him in Youth House for several weeks and involved him in the NYC legal system. By summer of 1953, this LHO and “Marguerite” fled to rural North Dakota, about as far removed from the densely populated city as can be imagined. After hiding out in North Dakota for the summer, this Oswald, Lee HARVEY Oswald, moved to New Orleans and was gradually re-introduced to the public school system by taking just two courses at Beauregard Junior High School for the fall 1953 semester. During this same time, American-born LEE Harvey Oswald was continuously enrolled at Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of NYC. Days after the assassination, in December 1963, Mrs. Alma Cole wrote a letter to then-President Lyndon Johnson that was intercepted and read by the Secret Service. Mrs. Cole didn’t know the year, but she indicated that her son—Henry Timmer--and another youngster from Stanley, North Dakota had known Lee Harvey Oswald. A transcription of the handwritten original is shown below: Dec 11, 1963 President Lyndon B. Johnson Dear Sir, I don’t know how to write to you, and I don’t know if I should or shouldn’t. My son knew Lee Harvey Oswald when he was at Stanley, North Dakota. I do not recall what year, but it was before Lee Harvey Oswald enlisted in the Marines. The boy read communist books then. He told my son He had a calling to kill a President. My son told me, he asked him. How he would know which one? Lee Harvey Oswald said he didn’t know, but the time and place would be layed before him. There are others at Stanley who knew Oswald. If you would check, I believe what I have wrote will check out. Another woman who knew of Oswald and his mother, was Mrs. Francis Jelesed. She had the Stanley Café, (she’s Mrs. Harry Merbach now.) Her son, I believe, knew Lee Harvey Oswald better than mine did. Francis and I just thought Oswald a bragging boy. Now we know different. We told our sons to have nothing to do with him (I’m sorry, I don’t remember the year.) This letter is wrote to you in hopes of helping. If it does all I want is A Thank You. Mrs. Alma Cole Rt 3 Box 1H Yuma, Arizona The Secret Service forwarded Mrs. Cole’s letter to the FBI, and the FBI eventually located and interviewed William Henry Timmer. According to this FBI report, Timmer explained that Oswald introduced himself as Harvey Oswald, talked about communism, and was in Stanley N.D. just during the summer of 1953. In 2000, John Delane Williams and Gary Severson wrote a series of articles about Oswald in North Dakota for The Fourth Decade.