13 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Like I've said ad nauseum on this forum, not everything is a conspiracy in this case. Being overly curious does NOT mean you're going to find something in someone's testimony. And things have to be logical in order for it to have happened.  Logic on this forum is one of the main things on here that seems to be lacking.

To understand what I mean, just go through the forum to some of its greatest hits - the Harvey and Lee caper; the Z film having painted in blobs and 67% of its frames removed. And now we're expected to believe, against all logic, that they had some super secret command center set up right in the basement of Ruby's nightclub, teams rushing in and out with papers in hand, reporting on every move, every counter move, and so on.  And we're also expected to believe that this command center, years later, is taken over by a telecom company because, why tear down this super secret communication center? Let's use it, yeah! I mean, really?

As one other poster said elsewhere, it has to sound logical and plausible.

But as another poster said elsewhere on this forum, "I think it happened [this way] because they could do it."

If you choose to believe that Oswald - as he himself said - was the patsy to take the fall, I think perhaps the most difficult thing to make happen was getting him into the building by getting him hired there one month before the murder. In my mind, that might have been tricky.  But they made it work.

But all of this other stuff like this super secret command center is truly and outrageously comedic. And once again, and as happens here many, many times, someone finds a little hole here or there in the testimony and then the entire thing is transposed onto another crazy theory and - PRESTO! - you have a super secret command center theory.

Lol. I'm not talking about a super secret command center. I am talking about a few wires, 2 per phone, being spliced onto the Carousel phone line. It's vary unglamorous. We're talking about 10 minutes of work in a manhole or at a splice point that was less-than-ideally placed, on a legacy cabling system that had morphed from the dawn of the public telephone network. The Carousel was central to that network.

I am talking about a speculative, hacked-together conference call with a disguised point of origin. 

And I take it that you have not read the testimony I asked you about. I generally get the feeling that you just read threads that you don't really care about and and just start raising a stink out of ignorance. 

2 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Ray

You go by what people tell you is evidence. The rest is your opinion.

And,..... an Alanis Morissette song just popped into my head.

Testimony of George Senator:

4-21-64

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/senator.htm

Testimony of Larry Crafard:

4-8-64

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/crafard.htm

1 hour ago, Michael Walton said:

Telecommunications were necessarily a part of the Dallas coup de ta.

>> Really? How do you know that?  ......

 

Michael, Your posts reeks of a lack of curiousity, a lack of desire to question and seek answers, and an angry contempt for those that are curious and do question and seek answers. Such a combination is pitiful.

To be sure, Michael, the testimony of George Senator ad Larry Crafard are the most eye-raising portions of the WCR that I have read. Crafard's account is not believable to me. George Senator, on his first day of testimony, cannot account for himself from 11AM - 7PM on Saturday. On his second day of testimony, Senator says that he may have stopped in at a lounge for a little while.

Meanwhile, Larry Crafard begins hitchhiking to Michigan, with $7 in his pocket, after being up all night, on an anonymous phone call, and then riding around Dallas with Ruby and Senator in the wee hours of Saturday morning. Crafard's reason for quitting The Carousel, and leaving Dallas? He said Jack yelled at him for calling him about dog food.

It is the hours from the assassination to 7PM on Saturday that I find very interesting, with regard to the Carousel crew; and that anonymous, 4 hour phone call is screaming for an explanation. I won't find an answer, but I am curious.

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Just as a little side note (and not related to the topic of your thread - please feel free to ignore)

 

 

CE 1673 in volume 23 of the WC Hearings page 144.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1139#relPageId=176&tab=page

shows the building at 1312 Commerce was owned by H.H. Nichols and Clarice Nichols.

I wonder if Jack Ruby's girlfriend, Alice Nichols was related.

 

Steve Thomas

 

Thanks for the links Steve. Interesting stuff.

14 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Telecommunications were necessarily a part of the Dallas coup de ta.

>> Really? How do you know that?  Sure sounds like a big supposition to me.

Jack Ruby's Carousell Lounge occupied the lot that is now the HQ of the major carrier of that region.

>> Uh, so what? I would think a "major carrier" in today's telecom industry would clear out the cobwebs with fiber optics from an old building instead of tapping into what's already there.

i am looking to research the history of that "lot", here, in this thread. 

Larry Crafard, a Carousel employee, according to his WC testimony, spent more than 4 hours talking to a girl who had called the Carousel Lounge, on the  night of November 22, inquiring about a job. According to his testimony, she was leaving Dallas, on a bus, first thing in the morning, for (as they say), parts unknown. Why would she be calling about a job at 11PM on 11-22-63?

>> Strippers and nightclub types are night creatures and work all hours of the day. So she's calling about a job, yet is leaving the next day.  That's a muddled message here.  And even if she was looking for a job and/or leaving, how is this related to the assassination?

Is the current telecom building a central telco interchange? Was the Carousel Lounge, back in '63, a hub; a jumble of telco lines?

>> Again, who cares? So now you're thinking that there was this grand scheme with operators at the ready deep in the bowels of the club, ready to receive Morse code that "Yes, he's dead.  His head was blown off."  And then these sinister and evil operators would make a direct call to...whom?

Even George Sawtell, on another thread, said he's got to take things into consideration and "make sure it sounds logical." Props to him. Does this grand telecom dream here sound logical? Plausible? Hardly.

Have you read Larry Crafard's testimony?

He didn't get a lot of sleep between noon on Friday through Saturday.

Thanks a lot David, that should be enough.

Cheers, 

Michael

I would actually like to see a good, logical refutation of Files' story. I am never comfortable with deferring to authority or just going with the flow; but I do it. Most of the deprecations I see are leveled at researchers who support his story. When I see his video I deduce that he is telling the truth, believes in his falsehoods or is extremely intelligent.

23 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

...........

A good example is the Eaglesham article on Files using a drawing from Remington, drawing No. 7. Take the time and go back and read that thread. I smashed Eaglesham's conclusion to bits. Why, because I don't let someone do the thinking for me.

..............

Eaglesham's article

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Headstamp/

BRIGADIER GENERAL JOSEPH J. CAPPUCCI

Retired   September 01,1974     Died  June 10,1992

Brig. Gen. Joseph J. Cappucci is director of defense investigative service, Office of the Secretary of Defense. 
General Cappucci was born in Bridgeport, Conn., in 1913. He attended elementary and high schools in that city. He graduated from the University of Wyoming and received his commission as a second lieutenant, Army Air Corps Reserve, from the Reserve Officers Training Corps program in June 1935. 

General Cappucci entered active military duty in October 1940 with initial assignment at Westover Air Base, Mass. In May 1942 he attended the Command and General Staff School, Fort Leavenworth, Kan., upon completion of which, he was transferred to the European Theater of Operations and placed on special duty with the British Intelligence Service. After his return to the United States in 1944, he performed duties as a counterintelligence and intelligence officer with the Army Air Corps until July 1946, when he was placed on detached service to the Central Intelligence Agency. He was integrated into the Regular Air Force in 1946 and in May 1947 he was transferred from the Central Intelligence Agency to the Directorate of Intelligence, U.S. Air Force. 

He was assigned to the Counterintelligence Division, Directorate of Special Investigations, in August 1948 when the Office of Special Investigations was activated. In January 1952 he was transferred to the Directorate of Special Investigations, U.S. Air Forces in Europe, and served as chief, Counterintelligence Division. While in USAFE, he was a member of various intelligence boards in Germany, France and other areas in USAFE, and was responsible for putting into effect a counterintelligence program throughout all USAFE areas of interest. General Cappucci was awarded the Legion of Merit by the Commander in Chief, USAFE, for his outstanding performance of duty during this period of service. 

Upon his return to the United States in August 1955, he was assigned to the Counterintelligence Division, Directorate of Special Investigations, U.S. Air Force. In August 1958 he was assigned as commander, OSI District 13, Offutt Air Force Base, Neb., and held this position until February 1961, when he was assigned as director of special investigations, Pacific Air Forces. General Cappucci was awarded another Legion of Merit by the commander in chief, PACAF, for outstanding service as director of special investigations, PACAF. 

He was transferred to the Office of The Inspector General, U.S. Air Force, in January 1964 and assumed the duties of deputy director of special investigations for operations in the Directorate of Special Investigations. He was appointed director of special investigations, and commander, 1005th Special Investigations Group in June 1964, which at that time was a worldwide, centrally directed organization. 

Genera1 Cappucci retired Aug. 31, 1967, and was recalled to active duty Sept. l, 1967,to again serve as director of special investigations and commander of the 1005th Special Investigations Group. He was awarded two Distinguished Service medals for exceptionally meritorious service in a duty of great responsibility as director of special investigations. On Dec. 31, 1971 the Air Force Office of Special Investigations was created as a separate operating agency. General Cappucci retained his position as director of special investigations while also becoming Commander, AFOSI. At that time, the 1005th Special Investigations Group was disestablished. 

In April 1972 General Cappucci was appointed director of Defense Investigative Service, Office of the Secretary of Defense. 

Besides the Command and General Staff School, he also has attended the U.S. Air Force Special Investigations School, British Secret Intelligence School, Air Intelligence School, Radar Observer Intelligence School and the Airborne School, and holds the ratings of parachutist and gliderman. 

In addition to the United States military decorations, he has been awarded the National Order of Vietnam in grade of Knight; Vietnamese Medal of Honor, 1st Class; Vietnamese Air Service Honor Medal; Philippine Legion of Honor; Philippine Legion of Honor (Commander); Most Exalted Order of White Elephant (2d Class-Knight Commander) (Thailand); Republic of Vietnam Air Force Distinguished Service Order (First Class); the Special Cravat of the Order of Cloud and Banner - Republic of China; Republic of China Police Medal; and the Order of National Security Merit Cheon-Su Medal, Republic of China. 

He was promoted to the temporary grade of brigadier general effective June 1, 1965, with date of rank May 22, 1965. 


(Current as of April 15, 1972)

On 4/21/2014 at 0:31 AM, Guest Robert Morrow said:

(Sidenote: I misspelled Joseph J. Cappucci's name in the title of this discussion board post. Here is a bio on him: http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/107495/brigadier-general-joseph-j-cappucci.aspx )

............

At this point Gen. Joseph J. Cappuci, a man very high up in Air Force counter-intelligence and a man who had a personal friendship with J. Edgar Hoover said that Lyndon Johnson had murdered John Kennedy.

..............

Gen. Cappuci had to be quite close to Landsdale....

My internet is being buggy with videos, so I didn't view this video yet...

Ron,

The Carousel, as best I can place it, was across the street and at the corner, the East end of the block, on the corner of Field St.  I have mapped to 2 different locations using the same 1312 1/2 Commerce st. address. The Adolphus is at the corner of Akard. The current AT&T building is across from the Adolphus and on the other side of Akard. Back in 63, the Telco Central Office could have been on the same site as the current AT&T building or nearby. In 63, the legacy cable system could have been a mess, accessible, and could have easily been manipulated by paying off a phone-guy or using a crook with some phone skills. 

That 4 hour call (actually 2 calls) could have easily, with a couple of simple connections, could have linked several locations, including an Adolphus line (HL Hunt, the fair grounds etc.) to the outside world, and It would have looked like a single call from the Carousel. I did not see, In the Warren Report, where they identified the originating end of that call.

On 5/1/2017 at 0:51 AM, David Andrews said:

Michael, take a look through the back Forum threads for discussion about a telephone gambling wire service (horses, maybe boxing or sports) figuring into Dallas and the assassination characters.  I remember that I posted on that thread, if it will help you search it.

David, I see that you are on-line so I though I would ask... I have searched for the thread that you mentioned with no luck. Do you have any more info or clues to go on, so I might locate it.

Cheers,

Michael

George, I know something about myself. I know that I am credulous. I find Files to be believable. But knowing that I am credulous, I do not try to argue his case. I have to look to researchers and respected authors and see what they make of Files. If I don't do that I know that I will look like a fool and tax the patience of true researchers who suffer my presence here. 

If I felt very strongly about Files story, I would perhaps do my own research, after looking into what research has already been done, and then I would make my case. If I only came-out using Files words, and a bit of logical arguendo to make my case, I know that I would look like a fool.

Speculation has it's place but must be presented as such. Claiming speculation as truth without presenting any research and facts just makes one look foolish, IMO.

Followiing my academic excercise of presuming that I am being lied-to, then generating a hypothetical truth before moving on to evaluate the likelihood of either being the case, I see the Syria cruise missile attacks and the recent Russian bomber sorties near Alaska, as fake demonstrations of animosity and tension. That deduction makes more sense, to me, than does any strategic or tactical benefit from either situation.

To be sure, I am suggesting that what we are seeing is Trump-Putin collusion; an effort to disguise a cozy relationship.

On 7/14/2016 at 4:34 AM, Harry J.Dean said:

If or when Trump becomes U.S. president it will mean the death of the

Coup d'etat that has existed since 22 November 1963 under a ' combination '

of Republican and Democrat administrations, or will ' cinch ' further anti- U.S.

Constitutional intentions!

I agree with Harry. Trump is malleable. He wants to be liked. For all of his flaws, he can be who we need him to be. Unfortunately the MSM keeps us diametrically opposed and the Left drives Trump further to the Right. I think we are going to miss an opportunity.

...

On 5/30/2006 at 2:34 AM, John Simkin said:

 

I do it because I believe the exposure of political corruption is vital if we are going to have a functioning democracy. Corruption only takes place because those in power have the ability to keep their actions secret. Unfortunately, those in the media have been corrupted and therefore this exposure has become very difficult. Especially as this media has the power to portray those who attempt to reveal this “secret history” as being unhinged conspiracy theorists.

I believe that new technology provides an opportunity to get to the truth about what has happened in the past. For a start, if you run a popular website as I do (six million page impressions a month) you can start to compete with the large corporations that control our mass media. With search-engines it is possible for any researcher to discover what is known about shady characters from the past.

This is so important and so true. 

Thanks to this forum, my scepticism of the Main Stream Media has transformed into an outright revulsion. It is a bit late in life to face such a change in my worldview, but, as they say, better late than never.

Thank you John

Cheers,

Michael

On 4/13/2007 at 10:18 AM, John Simkin said:

....

I am wondering if the thread which is the subject of this thread is, somewhere, combined into a PDF, where it could be downloaded.

Thanks for all that you do, John.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/5799-assassination-terrorism-and-the-arms-trade/

Ira David Woods chonology link is broken in at least two places above. I restored the link, I think it is correct.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v2n1/chrono1.pdf

I found a timeline thread, noted above. It is I the Seminars section.

More interesting stuff

Interesting stuff here

On 11/24/2006 at 5:25 PM, Nathaniel Heidenheimer said:

I've got a source that claims I'm a poor speller.

I can understand John's need to start this thread. If you know yourself to be a target of disinformation,

it is a personally very troubling thing. This is because it is done outside the public realm and with the express purpose of destroying the public sphere that is the foundation of the Enlightenment and democracy, wheterver is left of that stuff. You are left wondering if you should legitimate the rumors by commenting on them, but also realizing that you have no idea how far they are spreading. I know this feeling because I used to participate in a Free Speech Speak Out in Union Square, and watched it disintegrate.( I am about 75% certain that very very low level police agents were used. I read up a bit about the use of "red Squads' in a book published in 1990 and found that much humbler and less visible groups were targetted). Sure its easy to claim paranoia and shrug it off. Its not so easy when you know you are the target, and have no idea how far these

rumors have spread.

That said, the proof will be in the pudding. The sooner we get back to research and off personal attacks the more clearly we will make it known that such divisive tactics will not work. Whoever wants to continue the bickering will only draw suspicion to themselves. This, by the way does not mean that I think there are are not people who wish to discredit the forum. I think it likely that there are such creeps, and that they are the antithesis of 1776-- though they probably see themselves as the logical outgrowth of 1787. As for me I fancy myself a 76er. Wish there were more alive today.

I am very often astounded by Nathaniel's posts. Forum is indeed a good name for this place as long as this material remains along with the names of the researchers. These posts and statements stand, as statues in the Forum of Rome, as reminders of former greatness.

 Post from this thread:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/8629-john-simkin-cia-agent/&page=3

Ashton Gray wrote, on Nov. 24, 2006

And speaking of "count," I have no idea whether you are counting me in that august number, but I am going to point out for the record here—again—that I have made a matter of record the rather extraordinary database of over 10,000 records that I've had the good fortune to have had made available to me. And I've made absolutely no secret of the fact that quite a few people have contributed over the course of many years bringing the thing into existence, some of whom continue to update and add to it constantly.

Not only have I made a record of this primary research tool that I use, I've actually posted a copy of the exact same database engine itself populated with a few JFK-related records, and urged, begged, pleaded with people to use it to timeline the JFK assassination data, in the topic I started: JFK Timeline Database and Hopeful Thoughts.

I've just used that very database (the full version, not the limited JFK-related version I posted) to extract the West Virginia-Pat Price-CIA-NSA timeline that I just posted in response to Myra. It took me all of ten minutes, maybe, to search on "Pat Price" and "West Virginia," sort the found records by date, export the found records as a tab-delimited text file, and format it for posting with a few words of introduction. Such is the power of the thing, which I've tried desperately to get others to understand, and to use the damn thing, which has been freely supplied in the topic linked to above with no strings for anyone who wants to pursue it and use it any way they see fit.

So far, the only person who has demonstrated any real interest is Bill Kelly, who, to his eternal credit, is trying to get the many random timelines all compiled and into such a useful form. I even was in touch briefly with the Mary Farrell Foundation, and offered to do anything I could to get her chronologies converted for import to that engine. I supplied all the technical information that could make it possible—and then that contact went dead as a hammer. Don't ask me why.

So my own "research methods" are about as secret as Toys'R'Us locations. And since I have spent much of my life developing a career in which I'm my own boss and make my own schedule, I'll invest as much of my time as I choose in any pursuit I choose, without apology or requests for permission (and also stir the soup on my way through the kitchen).