11 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Michael - interesting idea. But I think the COG (Continuity of Government) installation underground in Dallas is the more likely hub.

Out at the fair grounds?

Copper phone lines have limits. Copper is a semi-precious metal. Phone hubs (Central Offices) are designed to reduce the lengths of copper phone lines.

There had to be an operative in the basement of the TSBD, working the phone lines, where Buell Frazier decided to have his lunch, alone, after his president had been assassinated.

Copper wires would support connections from Dealy Plaza, through the Carouse Lounge, out-to, say, The Southland Center; but, a line to DC, Chicago or New Orleans would have to go through a Central Office Switched Circuit. I am thinking that that was a call for which Larry Crafards call was a cover.

(that's a poorly constructed sentence, I will work to fix it)

****edit.... I changed the thread title from "Telecommunications and the Assassination"

Telecommunications were necessarily a part of the Dallas coup de ta.

Jack Ruby's Carousell Lounge occupied the lot that is now the HQ of the major carrier of that region.

i am looking to research the history of that "lot", here, in this thread. 

Larry Crafard, a Carousel employee, according to his WC testimony, spent more than 4 hours talking to a girl who had called the Carousel Lounge, on the  night of November 22, inquiring about a job. According to his testimony, she was leaving Dallas, on a bus, first thing in the morning, for (as they say), parts unknown. Why would she be calling about a job at 11PM on 11-22-63?

Is the current telecom building a central telco interchange? Was the Carousel Lounge, back in '63, a hub; a jumble of telco lines?

**** edit.  a related thread .....

14 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Cliff - I find it hard to imagine Harriman as being in on the conspiracy to kill JFK. I know there are many instances of Harriman setting foreign policies that were not always in synch with JFK. But unlike with Dulles, Harriman had no personal grudge against Kennedy. Do you know otherwise?

Money killed JFK. I don't know enough about Harriman and drugs in '62. But I definitely gravitate towards money.

This is the song I meant to share with you. It leads into I Bid You Goodnight. 

Check out the last few minutes of this "Not Fade-away"

3 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Andrej

Yes I use the word ''if'' but I come to a definite conclusion. You have a choice ... either the pristine bullet injured both Kennedy and Connally or it injured Kennedy only. You avoided the question but choose to throw up a smokescreen by saying I used too many ''if's''. 

One can fake a date but not a signature? If the date is faked the signature could be faked also.

George, there are more choices than you offer. Namely, while the world believed that the DPD was in possession of a Mauser, a Manlicher was flown to DC, where it was fired into a water tank, the bullet recovered, and both flown back to Dallas. CE399 was then enterered into evidence as the stretcher bullet. This would explain why the SS agents could not identify the 6.5mm MC bullet as the bullet recovered at Parkland.

I am not saying that this happened, I just saying that your either/or proposal is missing one or many "or"s.

Cheers,

Michael

21 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Bill,

........

I also agree that Oswald never renounced his US citizenship, nor applied for USSR citizenship, nor joined any Communist Party while in the USSR, or the USA.

It amazes me that well-meaning scholars today still think of Oswald as a Red.

........

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

-----------------------------

Cheers,

Michael

48 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Mr. McDONALD. At this time you were speaking in Russian together? 
Mrs. PORTER. Yes. He spoke with accent so I assumed he was maybe from 
another state, which is customary in Russia. People from other states do 
speak with accents because they do not speak Russian. They speak 
different languages. 
Mr. McDONALD. So when you say another state, you mean another Russian 
state? 
Mrs. PORTER. Yes, like Estonia, Lithuania, something like that. 
Mr. McDONALD. Did you suspect at all that he was an American? 
Mrs. PORTER. No, not at all. 

Repeating from above...

nevermind....

I am seeing Climate-Change deniers changing their tune. Many are saying that Climate-Change is happening. Of course they are wavering between how it is being caused and whether anything can be done about it. 

45 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Joe,

A few years after the assassination, Marina rather famously wrote that when she first met her future husband she thought he was from one of the Russian Baltic states because of his accent.  The clear implication of her statement was that she believed “LHO” was born in the USSR.

I don’t use this example in my arguments, however, because I think Marina was trying to minimize her own fluency in English while she was still living in Russia.  She also met Robert Webster a few months before meeting “LHO” and Webster said she spoke English fluently, although with a heavy accent.

Jim, that is, perhaps, disingenuous. To say that when she first met Lee she thought he was from a Baltic state, and then say that, years later, she believed that he was born in the USSR, is implying something that you may not have intended.

Did Marina, years later, believe that Lee was born in the USSR?

Below is an excerpted section of LHO's diary that contradicts several of Paul Trejo's oft-repeated claims.

Paul Trejo wrote:

"Also, the fact that LHO never surrrendered his US passport  -- smart move.  Also, the fact that LHO enjoyed benefits like the newest apartment complex in Minsk, and additional monthly payments from the Red Cross.  Also, the fact that LHO never applied for Soviet citizenship.  Very smart.  Also, the fact that LHO refused to join the Communist Party there -- though continually invited.   Also smart."

Regards,
--Paul Trejo" 3-29-17 "Bill Simpich's State Secrets" thread

And from the same thread, yesterday...

"Bill,

I agree that Oswald was a spy -- in his own mind.

I also agree that Oswald never renounced his US citizenship, nor applied for USSR citizenship, nor joined any Communist Party while in the USSR, or the USA.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo"

Also, Paul claimed (above) that: "  Also, the fact that LHO refused to join the Communist Party there -- though continually invited.   Also smart."

There is no indication that LHO:

- Refused to join the Communist Party

- Was asked to join the Communist Party

- And it goes without saying that he was never "continually invited".

Below, one can see that:

-Lee did surrender his passport

-Lee did renounce his US Citizenship

-Lee did request Soviet citizenship.

------------------------------

Diary of LHO:

Oct.16. Arrive from Helsinki by train ;am met by Intourest Repre.and in car to Hotel "Berlin". Reges. as. "studet" 5 day Lux .tourist. Ticket.) Meet my Intorist guied Rimma Sherikova I explain to her I wish to appli. for Rus.citizenship. She is flabber;assed, but aggrees to help. She checks with her boss, main officeIntour;than helps me add.a letter to Sup.Sovit asking for citizenship, mean while boss telephone passport & visa office and notifies them about me. 

Oct.31. I make my dision. Getting passport at 12"00 I meet and talk with Rimma for a few minutes she says:stay in your room and eat well, I don't tell her about what I intend to do since I know she would not approve. After she leaves I wait a few minutes and than I catch a taxi, "American Embassy" I say. 12"30, I arrive American Embassy, I walk in and say to the receptionist `I would like to see the Consular" she points at a large lager and says"if you a tourist please register". I take out my American passport and lay it o the desk. "I have come to dissolve my American citizenship. I saymatter-of-factly she rises and enters the office of Richard Snyder 

American Head Consular in Moscow at that time. He invites me to sit r down. He finishes a letter he is typing and then asks what he can do for me. I tell him I have dicided to take Soviet citizenship and would like to leagly dissolve my U .S.citizenship. His assitant (now Head Consular) McVickers e looks up from his work . Snyder serys- takes down personall Information, 

Jan.5. ........I wrote my brother & mother letters in which I said "I do not wish to every contact you again." Iam defining a new life and I don't wand any part of the old".

July - I decided to take my two week vacation and travel to Moscow (without police permission) to the American Embassy to see about getting my US passport back."

(This excerpt comes from a different document and may not appear be exactly rendered from the document in the first post.")

The "Historic Diary"

Oct 16. Arrive from Helsinki by train; am met by Intourist Representative and in car to Hotel "Berlin." Register as "student" 5 day Lux tourist ticket. Meet my Intourist guide Rima Sherikova. I explain to her I wish to apply for Russian citizenship. She is flabbergasted, but agrees to help. She checks with her boss, main office Intour, then helps me address a letter to Supreme Soviet asking for citizenship, meanwhile boss telephones passport & visa office and notifies them about me. 

Oct. 17 - Rima meets me for Intourist sightseeing, says we must continue with this, although I am too nervous. She is "sure" I'll have an answer soon. Asks me about myself and my reasons for doing this. I explain I am a communist, etc. She is politely sympathetic but uneasy now. She tries to be a friend to me. She feels sorry for me. I am something new. 

Sun Oct. 18. My 20th birthday, we visit exhibit in the morning and in the afternoon The Lenin-Stalin tomb. She gives me a present, book "Idiot" by Dostoevsky. 

Oct. 19. Tourism. Am anxious since my visa is good for five days only and still no word from authorities about my request. 

Oct. 20. Rima in the afternoon says Intourist was notified by the pass & visa department that they want to see me. I am excited greatly by this news. 

Oct. 21 (morning). Meeting with single official. Balding stout, black suit fairly good English, asks what do I want? I say Soviet citizenship. He ask why I give vague answers about "Great Soviet Union." He tells me "USSR only great in Literature," wants me to go back home. I am stunned; I reiterate. He says he shall check and let me know whether my visa will be (extended it expires today). 
Eve. 6.00 Receive word from police official. I must leave country tonight at 8.00 P.M. as visa expires. I am shocked!! My dreams! I retire to my room. I have $100. left. I have waited for 2 years to be accepted. My fondest dreams are shattered because of a petty official; because of bad planning. I planned too much! 7.00 P.M. I decide to end it. Soak wrist in cold water to numb the pain. Then slash my left wrist. Then plug wrist into bathtub of hot water. I think "when Rima comes at 8 to find me dead, it will be a great shock." Somewhere, a violin plays, as I 

Oct. 21 (con):watch my life whirl away. I think to myself, "how easy to die" and a sweet death, (to violins). About 8.00, Rima finds my unconscious (bathtub water a rich red color). She screams (I remember that) and runs for help. Ambulance comes, am taken to hospital where five stitches are put in my wrists. Poor Rima stays by my side as interpreter (my Russian is still very bad) far into the night. I tell her, "go home" (my mood is bad) but she stays, she is "my friend" She has a strong will. Only at this moment I notice she is pretty. 

Oct. 22. Hospital. I am in a small room with about 12 others (sick persons), 2 orderlies, and a nurse. The room is very drab as well as the breakfast. Only after prolonged (2 hours) observation of the other patients do I realize I am in the Insanity ward. This realization disquiets me. Later in afternoon, I am visited by Rima. She comes in with two doctors. As interpreter, she must ask me medical question, "Did you know what you were doing?" Answer "yes." "Did you blackout?" "No," etc. I then complain about poor food. The doctors laugh. Apparently this is a good sign. Later they leave, I am alone with Rima (amongst the mentally ill). She encourages me and scolds me. She says she will help me get transferred to another section of Hospital (not for insane) where food is good. 

Oct. 23. Transferred to ordinary ward, (airy, good food) but nurses suspicious of me) they know). Afternoon. I am visited by Rosa Agafonova of the hotel tourist office, who asks me about my health. Very beautiful, excellent English, very merry and kind. She makes me very glad to be alive. Later Rima vists 

Oct. 24 Hospital Routine. Rima visits me in afternoon. 

Oct. 25.  "     " 

Oct. 26 An elderly American at the hospital grow suspicious about me for some reason. Because at Embassy I told him I had not registered as most tourist and I am, in general, evasive about my presence in Moscow and at hospital. Afternoon Rima visits. 

Oct. 27 Stiches are taken out by doctor with "dull" scissor. 

Wed. Oct 28. Morning. Leave hospital in Intourist car with Rima for Hotel "Berlin." Later I change hotels to "Metropole." All clothes packed, and money from my room (to the last kopeck) returned, as well as watch, ring. Ludmilla Dimitrova (Intourist office head) and Rosa invite me to come and sit and talk with them anytime. I get lonesome at new hotel. They feel sorry for me. 

Oct. 28(con.) Rima notifies me that pass & registration office wishes to see me about my future. Later Rima and car pick me up and we enter the offices to find four officials waiting for me (all unknown to me). They ask how my arm is, I say O.K. They ask "Do you want to go to your homeland." I say no I want Soviet citizen. I say I want to reside in the Soviet Union. They say they will see about that. Than they ask me about the lone official with whom I spoke in the first place (apparently he did not pass along my request at all but thought to simply get rid of me by not extending my Soviet visa at the time I requested it). I describe him (they make notes). What papers do you have to show who and what you are? I give them my discharge papers from the Marine Corps. They say wait for our answer. I ask how long? Not soon. Later Rima comes to check on me. I feel insulted and insult her. 

Oct 29. Hotel Room 214. Metropole Hotel. I wait. I worry. I eat once, stay next to phone, worry. I keep fully dressed 

Oct. 30. Hotel Room I have been in hotel three days; it seems like three years. I must have some sort of a showdown! 

Oct. 31. I make my decision. Getting passport at 12:00, I meet and talk with Rima for a few minutes. She says: stay in your room and eat well. I don't tell her about what I intend to do, since I know she would not approve. After she leaves, I wait a few minutes and than I catch a taxi, "American Embassy" I say. At 12:30, I arrive American Embassy. I walk in and say to the receptionist, "I would like to see the Consular." She points at a large ledger and says, "If you are a tourist please register." I take out my American passport and lay it in the desk, "I have come to dissolve my American citizenship," I say matter-of-factly. She rises and enters the ofice of Richard Snyder American Head Consular in Moscow at that time. He invites me to sit down. He finishes a letter he is typing and then ask what he can do for me. I tell him I have decided to take Soviet citizenship and would like to legally dissolve my U.S. citizenship. His assistant (Now Head Consular) McVickers looks up from his work. Snyder takes down personal infornation, asks questions, 

Sat Oct 31. (continued) warns me not to take any steps before the soviets except me, says I am a "fool", and says the dissolution papers are a long time in preparing. (In other words refuses to allow me at that time to dissolve U.S. citizenship.) I state, "my mind is make up. From this day forward I consider myself no citizen of the U.S.A." I spend 40 minutes at the Embassy before Snyder says, "now unless you wish to expound on your marxist beliefs you can go." "I wish to dissolve U.S. citizenship." Not today, he says in effect. I leave Embassy, elated at this showdown. Returning to my hotel, I feel now my energies are not spent in vain. I'm sure Russians will accept me after this sign of my faith in them. 2:00 a knock. A reporter by the name of Goldstene wants an interview. I'm flabbergasted. "How did you find out?" "The Embassy called us," he said. I send him away. I sit and realize this is one way to bring pressure on me. By notifying my relations in U.S. through the newspapers, although they would say "it's for the public record." A half hour later another reporter, Miss Mosby, comes. I answer a few quick questions after refusing an interview. I am surprised at the interest. I get phone call from "Time" at night, a phone call from the States. I refuse all calls without finding out whose it from. I feel non-depressed because of the attention. 10:00 I retire. 

Nov. 1 - More reporters, 3 phone calls from brother & mother, now I feel slightly exhilarated, not so lonely. 

Nov- 2-15 Days of utter loneliness. I refuse all reports phone calls. I remain in my room; I am racked with dysentery. 

Nov 15 - I decide to give an interview. I have Miss Mosby's card so I call her. She drives right over. I give my story, allow pictures. Later, story is distorted, sent without my permission, that is: before I ever saw and OKed her story. Again I feel slightly better because of the attention. 

Nov. 16. A Russian official comes to my room, asks how I am. Notifies me I can remain in USSR 'til some solution is found with what to do with me. It is comforting news for me. 

Nov 17 - Dec. 30 I have bought myself two self-teaching Russian Language Books. I force myself to study 8 hours a day. I sit in my room and read and memorize words. All meals I take in my room. Rima arranged that. It is very cold on the streets, so I rarely go outside at all. For this month and a-half, I see no one, speak to no-one, except every now and then Rima, who calls the ministry about me. Have they forgotten?, During December I paid no money to the hotel, but Rima told Hotel I was expecting a lot of money from USA. I have $28. left. This month I was called to the passport office and met 3 new officials who asked me the same questions I answered a month before. They appear not to know me at all. 

Dec 31. New Years eve, I spend in the company of Rosa Agafonova at the Hotel Berlin. She has the duty. I sit with her until past midnight. She gives me a small "Boratin" clown for a New Years present. She is very nice. I found out only recently she is married, has small son who was born crippled; that is why she is so strangely tender and compelling. 

Jan 1 - 4 No change in routine.

Jan 4. I am called to passsport office and finally given a Soviet document, not the soviet citizenship as I so wanted, only a Residence document, not even for foreigners but a paper called, "for those without citizenship." Still I am happy. The official says they are sending me to the city of "Minsk." I ask, "is that in Siberia?" He only laughs. He also tells me that they have arranged for me to receive some money through the Red Cross to pay my hotel bills and expenses. I thank the gentlemen and leave later in the afternoon. I see Rima. She asks, "are you happy?" "Yes." 

Jan.5. I go to Red Cross in Moscow for money with Interpreter (a new one). I receive 5000 rubles, a huge sum!! Later in Minsk I am to earn 70 rubles a month at the factory. 

Jan.7. I leave Moscow by train for Minsk, Belorussia. My hotel bill was 2200 rubles and the train ticket to Minsk 150 rubles so I have a lot of money & hope. I wrote my brother & mother letters in which I said, "I do not wish to ever contact you again. I am beginning a new life and I don't want any part of the old." 

Jan 7. Arrive in Minsk, met by 2 women Red Cross workers. We go to hotel "Minsk." I take room and meet Rosa and Stellina, two persons from Intourist in hotel who speak English. Stellina is in 40's, nice, married, young child. Rosa about 23, blond, attractive, unmarried, excellent English. We attract each other at once. 

Jan 8. I meet the city mayor, comrade Shrapof, who welcomes me to Minsk, promises a rent-free apartment "soon," and warns me about "uncultured persons" who sometimes insult foreigners. My interpretor Roman Detkof Head For. Tech Institute next door. 

Jan. 10.The day to myself I walk through city; very nice. 

Jan. 11.I visit Minsk radio factory where I shall work. There I meet Argentinian Immigrant Alexander Ziger. Born a Polish Jew, immigrated to Argentinia in 1938 and back to Polish homeland (now part of Belorussia) in 1955, speaks English with American accent; he worked for American company in Argentinia. He is Head of a Department, a qualified Engineeer, in late 40's, mild mannered, likable. He seems to want to tell me something. I show him my temporary documents and say soon I shall have Russian citizenship. 

Jan 13 - 16 I work as a "checker" metal worker, pay: 700 rubles a month, work very easy. I am learning Russian quickly. Now, everyone is very friendly and kind. I meet many young Russian workers my own age. They have varied personalities. All wish to know about me, even offer to hold a mass meeting so I can say. I refuse politely. At night I take Rosa to the theater, movie, or opera almost every day. I'm living big and am very satisfied. I receive a check from the Red Cross every 5th of the month "to help." The check is 700 rubles. Therefore, every month I make 1400 rubles, about the same as the Director of the factory! Ziger observes me during this time. I don't like: picture of Lenin which watches from its place of honour and physical training at 11.-11.10 each morning (compulsary) for all (shades of H.G. Wells!!). 

March 16. I receive a small flat, one-room kitchen-bath near the factory (8 min. walk) with splendid view from 2 balconies of the river, almost rent free (60 rubles a month). It is a Russian's dream. 

March 17 - April 31 - Work. I have lost contact with Rosa after my house moving. I meet Pavel Golavacha, a young man my age, friendly, very intelligent, a excellent radio technician. His father is Gen. Golovacha Commander of Northwestern Siberia, twice hero of USSR in W.W.II. 

May 1 - May Day came as my first holiday of all factories, etc, closed. After spectacular military parade, all workers parade past, reviewing stand waving flags and pictures of Mr. K., etc. I follow the American custom of marking a holiday by sleeping in in the morning. At night I visit with the Ziger's daughters at a party thrown by them. About 40 people came, many of Argentinian origin. We dance and play around and drink until 2 a.m. when party breaks up. Leonara Ziger oldest daughter, 26, formally married, now divorced, a talented singer. Anita Ziger, 20, very gay, not so attractive but we hit it off. Her boyfriend, Alfred, is a Hungarian chap, silent, and brooding, not at all like Anita. Ziger advises me to go back to U.S.A. Its the first voice of opposition I have heard. I respect Ziger; he has seen the world. He says many things and relates many things I do not know about the U.S.S.R. I begin to feel uneasy inside, it's true! 

June-July Summer months of green beauty; pine forest very deep. I enjoy many Sundays in the environments of Minsk with the Zigers who have a car, "mos-vick." Alfred always goes along with Anita, Leonara seems to have no permenant boyfriend but many admirers. She has a beautiful Spanish figure, long black hair, like Anita. I never pay much attention to her; she's too old for m. She seems to dislike my lack of attention for some reason. She is high strung. I have become habituated to a small cafe, which is where I dine in the evening. The food is generally poor and always exactly the same menu in any cafe, at any point in the city. The food is cheap and I don't really care about quality after three years in the U.S.M.C. 

Aug-Sept As my Russian improves, I become increasingly conscious of just what sort of a society I live in. Mass gymnastics, compulsary after work meeting, usually political information meeting. Compulsary attendence at lectures and the sending of the entire shop collective (except me) to pick potatoes on a Sunday, at a State collective farm. A "patriotic duty" to bring in the harvest. The opinions of the workers (unvoiced) are that it's a great pain in the neck. They don't seem to be especially enthusiastic about any of the "collective" duties, a natural feeling. I am increasingly aware of the presence, in all things, of Lebizen, shop party secretary, fat, fortyish, and jovial on the outside. He is a no-nonsense party regular. 

Oct. The coming of Fall, my dread of a new Russian winter, are mellowed in splendid golds and reds of fall in Belorussia. Plums, peaches, apricots, and cherries abound for these last fall weeks. I am a healthy brown color and stuffed with fresh fruit (at other times of the year unobtainable). 

Oct 18 My 21st birthday sees Rosa, Pavel, Ella at a small party at my place. Ella, a very attractive Russian Jew I have been going walking with lately, works at the radio factory also. Rosa and Ella are jealous of each other. It brings a warm feeling to me. Both are at my place for the first time. Ella and Pavel both give ashtrays (I don't smoke); we have a laugh. 

Nov. Finds the approach of winter now. A growing loneliness overtakes me in spite of my conquest of Ennatachina, a girl from Riga, studying at the music conservatory in Minsk. After an affair which lasts a few weeks, we part. 

Nov 15 In Nov. I make the acquaintance of four girls rooming at the For. Ian. dormitory in room 212. Nell is very interesting, so is Tomka, Tomis and Alla. I usually go to the institute dormitory with a friend of mine who speaks English very well. Eraich Titov is in the fourth year at the medical institute. Very bright fellow. At the dormitory we 6 sit and talk in English. 

Dec 1 I am having an light affair with Nell Korobka. 

Jan 1 New Years I spend at home of Ella German. I think I'm in love with her. She has refused my more dishonorable advances. We drink and eat in the presence of her family in a very hospitable atmosphere. Later I go home drunk and happy. Passing the river homeward, I decide to propose to Ella. 

Jan. 2 After a pleasant hand-in-hand walk to the local cinema, we come home, standing on the doorstep I propose. She hesitates, then refuses, my love is real but she has none for me. Her reason besides lack of love; I am American and someday might be arrested simply because of that example Polish Intervention in the 20's led to the arrest of all people in the Soviet Union of polish origin. "You understand the world situation. There is too much against you and you don't even know it." I am stunned. She snickers at my awkwardness. In turning to go (I am too stunned to think!) I realize she was never serious with me but only exploited my being an American in order to get the envy of the other girls who consider me differed from the Russian Boys. I am miserable! 

Jan 3. I am miserable about Ella. I love her but what can I do? It is the state of fear which was always in the Soviet Union. 

Jan 4. One year after I received the residence document I am called in to the passport office and asked if I want citizenship (Russian). I say no simply extend my residential passport to agree and my document is extended until Jan 4, 1962. 

Jan-4-31 I am starting to reconsider my desire about staying. The work is drap, the money I get has nowhere to be spent. No nightclubs or bowling alleys, no places of recreation except the trade union dances. I have have had enough. 

Feb. 1st Make my first request to American Embassy, Moscow, for reconsidering my position, I stated, "I would like to go back to U.S." 

Feb. 28th I receive letter from Embassy. Richard E. Snyder stated, "I could come in for an interview any time I wanted." 

March 1-16 I now live in a state of expectation about going back to the U.S. I confided in Ziger. He supports my judgement but warns me not to tell any Russians about my desire to return. I understand now why. 
March 17 - I and Erich went to trade union dance. Boring, but at the last hour I am introduced to a girl with a French hair-do and red-dress with white slipper. I dance with her, then ask to show her home. I do, along with 5 other admirers. Her name is Marina. We like each other right away. She gives me her phone number and departs home with a not-so-new friend in a taxi. I walk home. 

March 18-31- We walk. I talk a little about myself, she talks alot about herself. Her name is Marina N. Prusakova. 

Apr. 1st-30 We are going steady and I decide I must have her. She puts me off so on April 15, I propose. She accepts. 

April 31 After a 7 day delay at the marriage bureau because of my unusual passport, they allow us to register as man & wife. Two of Marinas girlfriends act as bridesmaids. We are married at her aunts home. We have a dinner reception for about 20 friends and neighbors who wish us happiness (in spite of my origin and accent), which was in general disquieting to any Russian since foreigners are very rare in the Soviet Union, even tourist. After an evening of eating and drinking in which uncle Wooser started a fight and the fuse blow on an overloaded circuit, we take our leave and walk the 15 minutes to our home. We lived near each other. At midnight we were home. 

1st 
May Day 1961 Found us thinking about our future. In spite of fact I married Marina to hurt Ella, I found myself in love with Marina. 

May - The transition of changing full love from Ella to Marina was very painful, especially as I saw Ella almost every day at the factory but as the days and weeks went by, I adjusted more and more my wife mentally. I still hadn't told my wife of my desire to return to US. She is madly in love with me from the very start, boat rides on Lake Minsk, walks throughout the parks, evening at home, or Aunt Valia's place mark May. 

June - A continuence of May, except that we draw closer and closer and I think very little now of Ella. In the last days of this month, I reveal my longing to return to America. My wife is slightly startled. But then encourages me to do what I wish to do. 

July - I decided to take my two week vacation and travel to Moscow (without police permission) to the American Embassy to see about getting my U.S. passport back and make arrangements for my wife to enter the U.S. with me. 

July 8 - I fly by plane to Minsk on a il-20. 2 hrs 20m later, after taking a tearful and anxious parting from my wife, I arrive in Moscow. Departing by bus from the airfield, I arrive in the center of the city. Making my way through heavy traffic, I don't come in sight of the embassy until 3:00 in the afternoon. It's Saturday, what if they are closed? Entering I find the offices empty but manage to contact Snyder on the phone (since all embassy personel live in the same building). He comes down to greet me shake my hand. After interview he advises me to come in first thing Mon. 
(see - July 8 -13.) 
July 8. Interview July 9 receive passport; call Marina to Moscow also. 

July 14. I and Marina return to Minsk.

July 15. Marina at work, is shocked to find out there every know she entered the U.S. embassy. They were called at her place of work from some officials in Moscow. The bosses hold a meeting and give her a strong browbeating. The first of many indoctrinations. 

July 15 - Aug. 20 We have found out which blanks and certificates are necessary to apply for a exit visa. They number about 20 papers; birth certificates, affidavits, photos, etc. On Aug 20th, we give the papers out. They say it will be 3 1/2 months before we know whether they'll let us go or not. In the meantime, Marina has had to stade 4 different meetings at the place of work held by her Boss's at the direction of "someone" by phone. The young communist league headquarters also called about her and she had to go see them for 1 1/2 hrs. The purpose (expressed) is to dissuade her from going to the U.S.A. Net effect: make her more stubborn about wanting to go. Marina is pregnant, we only hope that the visas come through soon. 

Aug 21-Sept 1 - I make expected trips to the passport & visa office, also to ministry of foreign affairs in Minsk, also ministry of Internal affairs, all of which have a say in the granting of a visa. I extracted promises of quick attention to US. 

Sept-Oct 18. No word from Min. (They'll call us). Marina leaves Minsk by train on vacation to the city of Khar'kov in the Urals to visit an aunt for 4 weeks. During this time I am lonely but I an Erich go to the dances and public places for entertainment. I haven't done this in quite a few months now. I spend my birthday alone at the opera watching my favorite, "Queen of Spades." I am 22 years old. 

Nov-2 Marina arrives back, radiant, with several jars of preserves for me from her aunt in Khar'kov. 

Nov-Dec. Now we are becoming annoyed about the delay. Marina is beginning to waver about going to the US. Probably from the strain and her being pregnant, still we quarrel and so thing are not too bright, especially, with the approach of the hard Russian winter. 

Dec 25 - Xmas Day, Tues. Marina is called to the passport & visa office. She is told we have been granted Soviet exit visas. She fills out the completing blank and then comes home with the news. It's great (I think!). New Years, we spend at the Zigers at a dinner party at midnight attended by 6 other persons. 

Jan. 4. I am called to the passport office since my Residential passport expires today. Since I now have a US. in my possession I am given a totally new residential pass called, "Pass for Forin," and since they have given US permission to leave, and know we shall, good to July 5, 1962. 

Jan 15. 
Feb. 15. Days of cold Russian winter. But we feel fine. Marina is supposed to have baby on March 1st. 

Feb 15 - Dawn. Marina wakes me. It's her time. At 9:00 we arrive at the hospital. I leave her in care of nurses and leave to go to work. 10:00 Marina has a baby girl. When I visit the hospital at 5:00 after work I am given news. We both wanted a boy. Marina feels well, baby girl O.K. 

Feb. 23 Marina leaves hospital. I see June for first time. 

Feb. 28 I go to register (as proscribed by the law) the baby. I want her name to be June Marina Oswald but those bureaucrats say her middle name must be the same as my first. A Russian custom support by a law. I refuse to have her name written as "June Lee." They promise to call the city ministry (city hall) and find out in this case since I do have a U.S. passport. 

Feb. 29. I am told nobody knows what to do exactly, but everyone agrees "Go ahead and do it, "Po-Russki." Name: June Lee. 

March. The last commications are exchanged by myself and Embassy. Letters are always arriving from my mother and brother in the U.S. I have still not told Erich, who is my oldest existing acquaintance, that we are going to the State. He's o.k. but I'm afraid he is too good a young communist league member, so I'll wait 'til last minute. 

March 24-Marina quits her job in the formal fashion. 

March 26. - I receive a letter from Immigration and Naturalization service at San Antonio, Texas, that Marina has had her visa petition to the U.S. (Approved!!) The last document. Now we only have to wait for the U.S. Embassy to receive their copy of the approval so they can officially give the go ahead. 

March 27 I receive a letter from a Mr. Phillips (a employer of my mother, pledging to support my wife in case of need).

Spot on Mr Speer

On 10/26/2016 at 5:00 PM, Ron Ecker said:

On the subject of coincidences, the World Series being played in Cleveland and Chicago brings to mind one of the most amazing coincidences I've ever heard of.

In 1939, Cleveland's Bob Feller was pitching against the Chicago White Sox. A White Sox batter hit a foul ball into the stands, and it hit Feller's mother in the face.

And not only that. It was Mother's Day.

That's a great one Ron! It reminded me of this.... "Oh, The serendipity!"

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

The composite sketch of Maurice Bishop identified as David A Phillips by his niece.

Anyone mention this yet?

http://jfk-online.com/daphscavec.html

 

Definite a must-read.

thanks Larry 

Thanks Cliff

**edit* just dropping this link here...

http://www.constantinereport.com/peter-dale-scott-cia-drug-trafficking-managed-violence-russian-911/

23 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

 

 

18. Oswald returned to the USA in 1962 without punishment, because the State Department was satisfied that he was clean. 

 

• The facts remain:  Oswald never gave up his US passport; Oswald did not apply for USSR citizenship; and Oswald did not join the Communist Party in the USSR. 

 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul, You keep repeating that claim.

Perhaps you are aware of some evidence that backs-up your repeated claim? If you do have such evidence I would be interested in seeing it, because I have repeatedly posted evidence to the contrary.

---------------------------

Diary of LHO:

Oct.16. Arrive from Helsinki by train ;am met by Intourest Repre.and in car to Hotel "Berlin". Reges. as. "studet" 5 day Lux .tourist. Ticket.) Meet my Intorist guied Rimma Sherikova I explain to her I wish to appli. for Rus.citizenship. She is flabber;assed, but aggrees to help. She checks with her boss, main officeIntour;than helps me add.a letter to Sup.Sovit asking for citizenship, mean while boss telephone passport & visa office and notifies them about me. 

Oct.31. I make my dision. Getting passport at 12"00 I meet and talk with Rimma for a few minutes she says:stay in your room and eat well, I don't tell her about what I intend to do since I know she would not approve. After she leaves I wait a few minutes and than I catch a taxi, "American Embassy" I say. 12"30, I arrive American Embassy, I walk in and say to the receptionist `I would like to see the Consular" she points at a large lager and says"if you a tourist please register". I take out my American passport and lay it o the desk. "I have come to dissolve my American citizenship. I saymatter-of-factly she rises and enters the office of Richard Snyder 

American Head Consular in Moscow at that time. He invites me to sit r down. He finishes a letter he is typing and then asks what he can do for me. I tell him I have dicided to take Soviet citizenship and would like to leagly dissolve my U .S.citizenship. His assitant (now Head Consular) McVickers e looks up from his work . Snyder serys- takes down personall Information, 

Jan.5. ........I wrote my brother & mother letters in which I said "I do not wish to every contact you again." Iam defining a new life and I don't wand any part of the old".

July - I decided to take my two week vacation and travel to Moscow (without police permission) to the American Embassy to see about getting my US passport back."

55 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Bill,

 

I also agree that Oswald never renounced his US citizenship, nor applied for USSR citizenship, nor joined any Communist Party while in the USSR, or the USA.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul. I have, twice now, responded to your repeated claim that LHO did not hand in his passport, reounce citizenship, or apply for Soviet citizenship.

You keep repeating that claim.

Perhaps you are aware of some evidence that backs-up your repeated claim? If you do have such evidence I would be interested in seeing it, because I have repeatedly posted evidence to the contrary.

--------------------

Diary of LHO:

Cheers,

Michael

7 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

All I'm trying to say is there are plenty of people, myself included, that believe that JJA was a central figure in the conspiracy plot. If we are correct, I'm asking if that changes any thinking about explanations during this meeting between JJA, his lawyer and these Senators and members of the committee?

 

ps you made me look up Socratic Method... thanks

A very powerful tool. Also known as the Maieutic (?sp) or protreptic.

Socrates calls it Midwifery. He is a midwife, and by asking questions he demonstrates that knowledge already existed in the student, and he just assists in the delivery of the present knowledge.

 It is demonstrable and exciting and fulfilling to the student.

I love this stuff.

On 5/19/2014 at 5:16 PM, Robert Howard said:

1968 Dallas Criss-Cross Directory

6001/2 Melba Ruby Monroe WH1-5346

602 Melba H. Jack Price WH2-7389

604 Melba Hilda Roush WH6-4032

605 Melba Jose Huffhines WH3-8309

608 Melba McKay Tidwell WH2-5003

609 Melba Charles Anderson WH3-8512

613 Melba Ray Acker & Mrs. Maud Yates WH8-6279

614 Melba Beatrice Dickinson 942-6366

616 Melba Nettie Smith WH6-3589

617 Melba Nell Fulton WH1-4653

618 Melba Gertrude Moix WH6-3180

620 Melba Donald & Cora Blair WH2-7037

621 Melba G.C. Pollard WH6-5946

622 Melba Brooks Gilliland WH2-8149

624 Melba L. B. Tennison WH6-4252

625 Melba Mrs. Ollie Archer WH3-9504

627 Melba Alice Lee WH2-8007

628 Melba J. Earl White WH6-2854

629 Melba Luther E Hair WH6-1420

632 Melba Thelma Dickerson WH1-4609

635 Melba Dorma Richardson WH6-7879

636 Melba G. L. Wallace WH2-4124

300 N. Van Buren

Ints.

I copied this off the Dallas 1968 Criss Cross Directory

A lot has taken place since I started this thread, and I will

be very upfront about the fact that Jimmy George Robinson is not on this

list, but as it turns out, I am far from discouraged about that.

Mainly because of what Harold Weisberg

wrote about Robinson...

See below

Never Again: The Government Conspiracy in the JFK Assassination

Only moments after the 12:30 pm shooting of the President and the Governor

from the internal evidence after the President's death was announced and before

Oswald was accused, identified and charged, Sergeant H.C. Sherrill, of the nearby

Richardson, Texas, Police Department, phoned the Dallas FBI office

with a tip. In the words of "lead" investigative clerk Robert G. Renfro prepared for

Shanklin, the Richardson police believed that "Jimmy George Robinson and

members of the National States Rights Party [NSRP] should be considered possible

suspects" because of their demonstrated strong feelings against" JFK.

The NSRP was a miniscule ultraright racist gang begun by Jesse B. Stoner,

who had found the Ku Klux Klan to be too liberal for him. Robinson also

had a record of racist violence.

On the clerical end, this lead was followed promptly. A search of the FBI's Dallas

indices led to the posting of not fewer than five citations to different Dallas office

files. One was to a civil rights file; One was to a "100"-classification file, designated

to "Subversive Matter" [iNDIVIDUAL], Internal Security [ORGANIZATIONS],

"Domestic Security Investigations"; One was a "105"- file classification like

the "100's", a security related classification for "Foreign Counterintelligence"

that included "individuals" and "organizations" with a "Nationalistic Tendency"

and some "Internal Security" records; one was of a "157" classification, also

"security-related" for "Extremist Matters"and "Civil Unrest"; and one that is unclear

seems to be for violations of the Voorhis Act. In addition there is a reference to a

three-by-five card index, and an illegible entry.

Although there exists these records pertinent to Robinson and the NSRP, reflecting

the FBI's knowledge of records that could qualify them as suspects in the

assassination there is no indications that the citations posted were checked.

No notations indicate this, and there are no other notations on any attachment.

Instead, there is written below the last of these citations, "No neccessary to cover

as true subject located." The initials of the FBI agent who so summarily dismissed

the lead from the nearby police department are only partly legible. The first is

clearly a "J" and the last is as clearly an "H," but the middle initial can only

be guessed at. It does not appear to be the middle initial of any of the six Dallas agents

and of the one supervisor whose name began with "H," listed as the staff on the day of the

assassination. In accord with standard practice, this lead has a rubber stamp with boxes

for noting whether the record was searched, indexed, serialized and/or filed. Above the

stamp the file identification and the serial number of the record within that file are posted,

in this instance 89-43-84. This conspiracy "lead" memo was completely processed and filed

on the date stamped on the center of the form, November 22, 1963, or the day of the

assassination.

This means that whether or not the agent, or supervisor who "memory-holed" this lead

knew Oswald's name, which he did not include in his notation, Robinson's record was

processed completely and filed- before Oswald was charged with killing the President!

Oswald was not charged until after midnight. Not until November 23.

But before any real investigation was made, or even possible, or before any real case

against Oswald could have been built, the FBI was eliminating consideration of the possibility

that there had been a conspiracy. At the very least the FBI should have tried to determine

whether Oswald had any connection to the NSRP and/or Robinson or any other conspirators.

Selma Figure Known Here

1-28-1965 page 20

Jimmy George Robinson, 27, who was sentenced

to 60 days in jail last week for slugging Martin Luther King,

was once charged in Dallas county with burning a fiery cross

at Richardson. Robinson was a Garland resident for some time

and police records show him active in racist affairs here.

Garland Police arrested Robinson on Jan. 25, 1963

on a warrant from Justice of the Peace Theron Ward.

The charge of willful burning without a permit was later

dismissed for lack of evidence. On June 26, 1963

Garland police again arrested Robinson for simple

assault and he was fined $25 and costs.

Garland police said that Robinson operated a small

service station during the time he lived there.

END

There are some names on that index, that startled me.

I am curious as to who else felt the same way.

Bump because it is interesting and also because I have a point of possible interest to share. I just can't get to it right now.

***edit. I was mistaken, my dates were off

7 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

 

What is the "disconnect" here? Have the producers simply decided to "dumb down" the story to fit the IQ of a typical History Channel viewer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baer

That's what I was getting at. I think there are a lot of 20-30 somethings who direct production and content. I gave up on television a long time ago. I just become an annoyance to anyone else who is trying to watch it.

Yup, I am that guy...

3 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Perhaps the most irritating part of the show, for me, was the way they kept comparing U.S.--Russia relations in the 60's to U.S.--ISIS relations today. That's absurd. Al Qaeda and ISIS have openly attacked American troops--we are at war with them. Their leaders' names are on hit lists. This is nothing like U.S.--Russia relations in the 60's.

It's like comparing chess to cage-fighting. Both are competitions. But only one  is likely to end in bloodshed.

"kids these days"..... 

Edited....

Just a note as to where this theory can be substituted into existing theories.

Generally, where the answer to often asked questions is..

"... in order to avoid Nuclear war."

....One can substitute: "in order to double-cross the anti-Castro Cubans.