Michael Clark

Congratulations Sir!

Bernard barker died in 2009

2 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

I don't want to leave the impression that I believe it.

 

 

Assuming that Torbitt believed in what he was writing, It's a courageous effort; Hoover was still alive and in charge.

17 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

It's from the Torbitt Document (published as NASA, Nazis and JFK), p. 27. DISC was the Security Division of NASA headed by Werner Von Braun. It was the "police and espionage agency for the U.S. munitions makers." Organized by J. Edgar Hoover and William Sullivan, it was headquartered at Muscle Shoals Redstone Arsenal in Alabama and on East Broad Street in Columbus, Ohio. DISC agents included Oswald, Ruby, Banister, and Ferrie. Moreover, Permindex's Louis Mortimer Bloomfield of Montreal, Canada was in charge. It's all perfectly clear.

 

Thanks Ron. Wow! That is thick with familiar names.

Here is a PDF of the Torbitt Ducument.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/N Disk/Nomenclature of the Assassination Cabal-Torbitt Document/Item 02.pdf

Eddy, IMO, acoustic evidence is esoteric in nature. You need to be an expert to produce the analysis and to call it evidence. Everyone else just has to decide whether they believe the experts or not. I believe the acoustic evidence that I have seen; but that doesn't amount to anything.

Cheers,

Michael

If....

1. I was privy to the cover-up to the assassination of sitting US President

or

2. Had several attempts made on my life

or

3. Had been threatened that telling the truth would lead to my being murdered

Then.... I would be disturbed as well, and I would expect to be labeled as disturbed.

12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Well, does this work then if you copy and paste it?

 

file:///Users/user1/Downloads/Newman%20Kirkus%20Interview%20%20041517%20(1).pdf

It doesn't work for me. I use IOS.

Sandy is correct, that file string will not reach the web. It is not routable on the web without a www.xxx or HTTP somewhere in it. Perhaps in a VPN scenario would work..

On 8/8/2007 at 0:35 AM, Tim Gratz said:

Nathan, I do believe it is very possible that the CIA was using LHO in an anti-Castro operation.

This would certainly make him the "perfect patsy" for the JFK case if the assassination was planned by: a) Castro supporters; the Mafia; c) rogue CIA agents; d) take your pick.

I do NOT believe, however, that if LHO was involved in such an operation, the people behind it were the people that planned the Kennedy assassination.

Some interesting things in this thread. 

It is invoking the idea, often claimed, that the operation to kill Castro was turned into an operation to Kill Kennedy.

Given the restrictions against CIA operations domestically it would be interesting to know when the Anti-Castro operation was abandoned or handed over to a domestic entity, and who that would be. Also, were CIA assets transferred or loaned to the domestic operation in Dallas, and when?

Such a line of reasoning points, more and more, to an Anti-Castro ground crew.

On 8/5/2007 at 0:39 PM, William Kelly said:

Hi Tim,

Did you see my post on Michael Paine and ESP under "Coincidence or Conspiracy?" Thread?

Indeed there is more on Moore. Attached is a link to Greg Parker's new web site Reopen JFK Case - with my article on THE O'REILLY FACTOR & THE JFK ASSASSINATION -

J. Walton Moore and LHO.

http://reopenjfkcase.interodent.com/index....36&Itemid=9

Is there a photo of Moore available?

And many thanks to Robert Howard for providing docs and Greg for posting it.

BK

Very interesting thread. I wish the above link still worked. If anyone can identify or restore it, I would be grateful.

4 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

I would like to read other people's takes on Roger Craig and his credibility or lack there of.

Am I missing some huge body of Craig history knowledge and research that shows him to be something far less than Mark Lane's courageous hero? 

I am sure that David Von Pein can help you out.

To be sure, Seymour Wetzman's actions in Dealy Plaza and the TSBD mirrored Craig's. Weitzman recanted his Mauser ID; Craig, I believe, wavered due to attempts on his life. Weitzman was interviewed days before Craig was suicided. Weitzman additionally identified Watergate burgler Bernard Barker as a fake SS officer on the Grassy Knoll. Perhaps it was feared that Craig would make that same identification.

10 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Michael - Thanks for resurrecting this thread, which in some ways relates to Steve Thomas's recent thread on the strategy of tension, and to an older one of his on the presence of Colonels (Army) and reserve military in Dallas. If only Trejo would read and digest. He might come to the conclusion that the main thing wrong with his Walker theory is that it doesn't go far enough. He is so intent on denying links to JCS, Dulles, and thinks that the radical right is somehow separate from portions of the military and CIA. 

Also Michael, the analysis in this thread of the Vatican's secret structures is why I worry about Pope Francis. It is already clear that he has many enemies around him. We had another Pope like that who lasted just a few months, killed no doubt by the Vatican banksters and P-2. Steve Thomas - hope you are reading this. P-2, Licio Gelli, strategy of tension in action. Leads directly  to Angleton, Shackley, Harvey. 

Yes, I am still reading through this thread. I agree that you, Trejo and I are sniffing around the same lobby, so to speak. I have come to the conclusion, however, that Trejo's interest in this case is rooted in the defense of the Paine's, the CIA, and the super-rich wannabee slave-lords, with Walker as a safe, expendable target and distraction.

BTW, which Pope do you speak of?

The 6th paragraph of the first post mentions the Defense Industrial Security Command; something I have never heard of. A quick search brought up nothing. I am wondering if DISC had a locus, vector, or focus around General Dynamics, Bell, Fort Worth, I.B. Hale, The FBI, Bobby Baker, Michael Pane, etc. ?

One would think that you could Google "John M Newman Kirkus interview 2004", and play with tags like "JFK" etc. and come up with something. I get no results. Perhaps that is what Jim is getting at?

I am glad to see that storyline of Executive Action confirms my working hypothesis.

From the above link:

"Pearse and I discussed Executive Action at some length in our review of the film – it tells a story of a private, ultra-right wing corporate conspiracy to assassinate JFK and set up Lee Harvey Oswald as a patsy"

7 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

 

HERE ARE 20 FACTS SHOWING WHY THE ABOVE 20 "FACTS" ARE INCORRECT

1. CIA accountant James Wilcott was responding to rumors that he overheard from CIA field agents.  They were teasing him.

2. Antonio Veciana saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963 -- in the context of plotting to assassinate Fidel Castro.

3. There were many, many “agent into the USSR," who "met Russian girls" and some who "eventually marryied them" and some were part of a “false defector” program in the 1950s. That proves NOTHING about Oswald.

4. Robert Webster was part of the "false defector" program.  Minsk was where the USSR kept tabs on these guys.  It's no suprise that they met many girls, including Marina Prusakova, at Communist Youth dances in town.  So did many other guys.

5. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough are all entitled to their opinions -- but the US Government did not allow them to see the secret documents being withheld about LHO.  So they were simply guessing.

6. Even if CIA employee Donald Deneslya was not spreading rumors and gossip, it is certainly possible for a CIA agent to work at a radio factory in Minsk and return to the US with a Russian wife and child -- without being Lee Harvey Oswald.

7.  Kenneth Porter was not a CIA Agent -- just because he worked for a radio factory that some people claim was "CIA connected," what ever that cloak-and-dagger term might mean. It's silly to imagine that a marriage to Marina Oswald was about "monitoring her" for life, to see if she would finally crack and admit she was a KGB agent.

8. George Joannides was a CIA agent close to DRE (which Oswald failed to infiltrate).  Like all CIA officers, he was expected to keep his mouth shut about all CIA business; for life.   It proves NOTHING.

9. George Joannides received a medal by the CIA for a lifetime of service.  That proves NOTHING about Lee Harvey Oswald.

10.  The FBI kept Oswald on its watch list after the New Orleans arrest, so your "facts" are wrong.  Also, Guy Banister and the Radical Right controlled Oswald, and the CIA only hoped that Oswald could be used to kill Fidel Castro, but they did not *hire* Oswald -- because he wasn't smart enough.  Oswald couldn't drive, he could hardly spell, and he couldn't play well with others.  Oswald was a loose cannon -- not CIA material.

11. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay is a useless travellog with no useful intelligence about any individual operators.  Oswald hoped to sell it in the USA, but nobody wanted to buy it.  George DeMohrenschildt just laughed at it.

12. Oswald had written the word 'microdots' in his personal notebook.  No genuine CIA agent is so sloppy.  So, of course the US Government was obliged to search his possessions for microdots after seeing that word.  They found none at all.

13. That Minox camera belonged to Michael Paine, not to Oswald.

14. Oswald was a radar operator in the Marines.  According to CIA agent Victor Marchetti, Oswald probably entered the USSR as part of an ONI "dangle operation" which is a training mission for beginners.  Oswald was 19 when he entered the USSR. Oswald never gave up his US passport; he never applied for Russian citizenship; he never joined the Communist Party.  The USSR was glad to get rid of him.   There's no spy story there.

15. CIA Richard Case Nagell knew something about plots to assassinate Fidel Castro, and rumors to assassinate JFK, and he knew Oswald was mixed up in it somehow, but Nagell was so confused and confusing that his stories about it are hopelessly muddled.   The only clear statement was that he threated Oswald that if Oswald had succeeded in getting an instant passage into Cuba from Mexico City, that he would kill Oswald dead in order to protect his own identity as a double-agent between the CIA and the KGB.  That's it. 

16. Oswald had today's equivalent of $16,000 in cash when he quit the Marines in 1959, because he saved almost all of money during his two years in the Marines.  He spent two days at luxury hotels in Europe before he went to the USSR.  In the summer of 1963, however, Oswald had to send Marina, who was eight months pregnant, to live with Ruth Paine in Texas because Oswald had no health insurance, no money of his own, and she had not seen a doctor during her whole pregnancy.  Oswald traveled to Mexico City -- playing superspy and trying to get an instant passage into Cuba (probably with money from Guy Banister).  Oswald failed to get to Cuba.  He came back to the USA with his tail between his legs.

17. Actually, David Atlee Phillips, in his novel, The AMLASH Legacy (1988) admits that he participated in the sheep-dip of Oswald in New Orleans and in Mexico City in order to assassinate Fidel Castro.  That intrigue was probably Oswald's real reason for going to Mexico City -- but his manager was Guy Banister -- a segregationist fanatic in New Orleans -- not the CIA.

18. Oswald returned to the USA in 1962 without punishment, because the State Department was satisfied that he was clean.  That is, Oswald did not give up his US passport; Oswald did not apply for USSR citizenship; and Oswald did not join the Communist Party in the USSR.  He was clean.  Also, nobody gave Oswald "permission" to travel to Cuba and the USSR again -- in fact, Oswald FAILED to get into Cuba.

19. Allen Dulles agreed to cooperate with Hoover, Warren and LBJ in the National Security urgency to prevent the world from knowing that the Radical Right killed JFK, because otherwise the USSR and the Communists would have scored big propaganda victories.

20. It is false to claim that JFK was at war with the CIA.  Although JFK said he would tear the CIA into a thousand pieces -- when he calmed down he actually increased funding for the CIA.  JFK himself started Operation Mongoose, which RFK monitored.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Tommie, know, thiss un....

10 minutes ago, Glenn Nall said:

the fact that multiple attempts were made on Roger Craig's life - until one was successful - tells me all i need to know. He had apparently upset the wrong people.

was it because he never liked his ex-boss? i doubt it - at least at the "professional" level...

Roger Craig died from a high-powered rifle shot to the chest, days after Seymour Weitzman was interviewed and said that Bernard Barker (Watergate burgler) was a disguised SS officer on the grassy knoll. Weitzman also corroborated Roger Craig's testimony that the rifle found in the TSBD was a Mauser. Roger Craig's and Weitzman's movements through Dealy Plaza, on 11-22-63, mirror one another's. Craig's, above, Interview was done about a year before he died from that rifle shot to the chest. I need to look into whether it was scheduled or presumed that he would testify to the HSCA.

Cheers,

Michael

Tommy, Larry Hancock's post belongs in the Fozi thread. Please, take the lead, and show me how that transfer, with corrections or notations, is done.

Cheers,

Michael

7 minutes ago, Glenn Nall said:

Michael - 

the ENTIRE reason DVP claims this stuff is for the emotion he experiences when he does so - and it's a guarantee that 'queasiness' is not it.

Glenn, One can only hope...

22 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear Mikey,

You just don't get it, do you.

Unobservant? Dyslexic? Or just stubborn?

I'm trying to help you make your post intelligible, but you refuse to understand.

If you did, and it turns out it was Larry's "typo" to begin with, then you could at least put "(sic)" or "[sic]" after his word "while".

LOL

unbelievabe

You can lead a horse to water...

--  Tommy

And you got a degree in English literature?

Tommy, I filled in, above, that I am unclear as to the etiquette regarding the  editing other people's posts. I was just looking into it. Right now I am looking up "IBID". Sure, it's awkward, and incorrect, but with a double-take the meaning is not lost on the reader. Also, you said that the problem was in the middle of the post, saying there were missing words. I am not seeing that. did YOU make a mistake, and instead of saying "oops, my bad", deflect to an agreement problem in the second paragraph?

Lastly, I'm not a horse, YOU do no not "lead" ME anywhere, and, I have a Moosehead lager in-hand; water is on tap if I need it.

Cheers,

Michael

On 8/28/2013 at 6:17 PM, Larry Hancock said:

To weigh in on this is a bit more detail, in SWHT I present what I think is an extremely strong circumstantial case that Phillips did use the Bishop alias beginning in Cuba while

he was for years after that. Phillips admitted to using an alias in Cuba and to working with a rebel group wanting to assassinate Castro, a perfect fit for the known

Veciana contact inside Cuba. Keep in mind that in his undercover position any alias Phillips used could well have been local, not a CIA crypt or even necessarily a formal

assigned alias - he was deep undercover, not using a backstopped cover of any sort, say as Morales was doing at the same time in Havana, assigned to the U.S. embassy.

But the connection goes years beyond that, with a strong case that Phillips continued to use both Veciana and Luis Posada in Castro assassination projects in Latin

America, even after he moved into much higher positions as a country station chief and then division chief for the region. Veciana is on record that he was amazed that

as a legally restricted exile, restricted to Florida, someone managed to get him a job down there, and with AID for that matter. Its going to take Phillips to do that sort

of thing...

To see the connections between some of these folks, its necessary to look way beyond just the Cuba secret war projects of the early 60's, their agenda continued for many

years beyond that, possibly sanctioned but in the case of Phillips, very possibly not...

-- Larry

Bumpred again, due to distraction...

FYI, for anyone who has not seen the 4th video, It brings Loy Factor, Bernard Barker (Via Loy) and the RFK assassination into the mix.

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Roger Craig was a proven l-i-a-r, as I demonstrate here....

Deprecating Officer Craig is shameful. I hope it makes you queasy when you make such claims.

A reader of this thread can watch this video and decide for themselves if Officer Craig is credible, instead of going to David Von Pines site where the matter can not be discussed here.

23 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

No, I am not saying he was hiding his anti-Castro activities-those were a matter of record. He was looking for someone to share the blame.

Or, more likely, trying to save his life. Phillips wasn't the top of the food chain. Naming Phillips would suggest the complicity of whoever handled Phillips. AV's implying that those above Phillips could be revealed if he, Veciana, were killed, may have been a gambit to save his own life.

Veciana would not be looking to out a high level CIA officer to share the blame for his own involvement in a drug conviction, legitimate or not; that's a sadly weak assertion.

Cheers,

Michael

4 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I can answer that-no he didn't. The "coffee shop" thing was in volume X of the HSCA. Johnson went public in 2014 after reading about the "coffee shop" in Fonzi's book. And Johnson has no evidence for any of this other than his word.

Since your speaking for Wynne, Tracy, I'll do the same. Wynne would say he was there in 1963.

Wynne is a member of this forum.