Michael Clark

It has been my thinking that the Z film and other films that were made by the perps, had to be developed and viewed so decisions could be made as to what actually happened on the ground and what they could get away with and what they could not. Info had to be gathered from the SS, witnesses, the hospital, the police, the shooting teams, observers and film viewers in order to make the autopsy scenario fall in line. After gathering all this info they had to decide if the lone-nut story could be made to stick. Cheers, Michael

From Wikipedia.... John Foster Dulles, who represented United Fruit while he was a law partner at Sullivan & Cromwell – he negotiated that crucial United Fruit deal with Guatemalan officials in the 1930s – was Secretary of State under Eisenhower; his brother Allen, who did legal work for the company and sat on its board of directors, was head of the CIA under Eisenhower; Henry Cabot Lodge, who was America's ambassador to the UN, was a large owner of United Fruit stock; Ed Whitman, the United Fruit PR man, was married to Ann Whitman, Dwight Eisenhower's personal secretary. You could not see these connections until you could – and then you could not stop seeing them.[6] ------------------ So, when the BOP was being planned, John Dulles was Secretary of State. Until April of 1959 Allen Dulles was CIA Director. Henry Cabot Lodge was former Massachusetts Senator and Ambassador to the UN until 1960. And somebody sends The Presidents brother, The Attorney General, to Boston to see if he could scare up a couple of banana boats for a CIA operation? Cheers, Michael

But.... Oswald never owned a rifle. The rifle found in the TSBD was a Mauser, DPD officers have testified to that fact.

lex ta·li·o·nis ˈleks ˌtälēˈōnis,ˌtalē-/ noun the law of retaliation, whereby a punishment resembles the offense committed in kind and degree.

That's Awesome Mr. Joseph's! I know you and people like you have better things to do, but I have to thank DVP for spending so much time manning the clay-target-launcher so you can demonstrate you expertise! Cheers, Michael

Paul, In the above, where do Jeff Caufields claims begin and end; and which are YOUR claims? It is not clear.

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Well, Eddy, ,,,,, that would require me to admit that I have more experience with gut-shots to deer than I to. That said, Any bullet I have fired at a deer and has hit its mark (the chest cavity) has transited the chest cavity and exited the deer. Any bullet that has hit a deer in the chest cavity, at a bad angle, and has entered the gut, has remained in the gut. Any bullet that has hit the gut has remained in the gut. Beyond that, a description of such a scene is not something that I would care to relate, in any detail, on this forum. Suffice it to say that the mass of intestines is housed in what I am referring to as "the gut". Any compromise of that area is necessarily a highly unsanitary predicament. I can't speak to what are the best EMT practices now, nor in 1963. I will venteure to guess that not much could be done on scene for two reasons. 1) A gut shot produces far less (sometimes none) external bleeding than you might think, so efforts to stop bleeding at the scene might have no apparent starting point. 2) The rupture of intestines would make, from my experience with deer anyway, the need for opening and cleaning of the gut area a priority. Any bleeding that would require abatement would also need to be done in a procedure that explores the Internals of the the gut. To be sure, only a sadistic mobster would prefer to kill someone with a single shot to the gut. It seems to me that if one shot, in cramped-quarters, with injury to no-one else, was to be risked, or at least such risk was to be minimized, then Ruby's MO would be the best prescribed course of action. Cheers, Michael

Thank you David for this helpful and informative post. Beyond informative and detailed information which it offers surrounding the the assassination, it represents the latest, most elegant and indeed humorous illustration of the incessant manner in which a particular forum member bloats so many threads with his particular theory. I don't know if you saw the most recent, and now hidden or deleted, egregious example of that proclivity. A few weeks ago a death notice for a respected and beloved long-time member of the forum became a rostrum from which this member gave a Walker-Did-It sermon, sprinkled with a hint of fare-thee-well refrains. I am convinced that he cannot help himself and indeed enjoys the attention even if it comes in the form of admonishment of his habit. Thaks again, and Cheers Michael

Sandy, I think that there is a bit of confusion. Ron is saying, I think, that in fact the number of shooters was greater than one. On the other hand, the cover story was that there was only one. Cheers, Michael

Cliff, I still see no reason to change from a Commie-did-it CT to a Lone Nut theory just because Oswald outdrew Tippit. Regards, --Paul Trejo ----------------------------- I edited Paul's sentence because I think he had a mistake in there. My apologies if I am incorrect. Tippit, for some reason, got in the way. Either he was trying cover himself, cover someone else, trying to be a hero, or trying to extricate himself from the plot that he thought was closing in on him. He probably would have been fine if he didn't wander off-base. Cheers, Michael

Welcome to the forum Eddy! I don't have a great answer for you but I didn't want to leave you hanging without a response. I have a partial answer for you. Some of it based on experience. From my experience as a hunter, a shot to the gut will be more likely to not pass through than a shot to the chest cavity. So I would say that Ruby shot low on LHO so as not to risk injuring anyone else. Also, while a gut shot might seem more survivable, a close-up, point-blank shot to the gut would likely be devastating. If there was no real intention to save LHO, I think the likelihood of him lingering for any length of time is slim. I have no answer to your question about the student. Again, Welcome to the forum.. and Cheers, Michael

A related thread for reference: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/6108-jim-hood-photograph-why-did-the-fbi-confiscate-it/&page=3#comment-352821 In support of the above thread, here is a video: This murder would fit into my theory as such: An individual who could or would be later identified as a Pro-Castro Cuban was murdered near the GK. This would be part of the fulfillment of the plot to blame a Communist conspiracy, including LHO, for the murder of JFK. As part of the double-cross, this murdered individual was made to disappear; and the story changed to a lone nut scenario. This individual, like Bernard Barker (as per Seymour Wetzman) would have been carrying fake Secret Service credentials.

Beaaa Haaaa Haa' I love all your posts Alistair, this one made me bust a gut! Cheers, Michael

reserved so I can Add without bumping ---- odd, random thoughts... -thinking of Hunt/Phillips penchant for writing spy novels, I am noting that: -If the theory I am posing is correct, it necessarily supports the development of two conspiracies; ie. the fake one that was dangled in front of the Mafia and ACC's, and the real one, especially inasmuch as the latter was dependent on the DPD, Far-right entities and G-Spooks on the ground in Dallas at the time, and stretching to Washington with the cover-up. The convergence of these two conspiracies would necessarily confuse observers and investigators, as they did, both immediately and eventually. Questions would be raised and abandoned in a manner such as.... " if such-and-such were the case, then why the hell would this-and-that have happened? That makes no sense! Maybe if....." ..... and so on, and so on. Could Hunt have written such a dual-conflicting-conspiracy to sew future confusion? Is there any evidence in his books for such a story line? I think I'll poke around for some of Hunts old books. It will give me an excuse to read some fiction, apart from the WCR. ------------------ The Veciana/Oswald meeting is now looking to me as a sort of sheep-dipping of the Anti-Castro Cubans. Clandestine cameras or photographers may have taken pictures of AV and LHO together, or coming and going at the same time. Perhaps DAP was taking the pics. These photos could be used to implicate the Ant-Castro Cubans as part of the conspiracy, blowing the plan to blame it on Commie-Cubans. Once LHO became news on the afternoon of 11-22-63, Vecania would have known that they were double-crossed. A Similar situation/scenario probably happened with Ruby and the Mob. ---------------------- I am thinking that the supposed planned assassination attempts in Miami and Chicago were not real plots. I am thinking that they were distractions, background noise, and static. The purpose was to spread resources thin in order to keep the actual plot in Dallas less detectable. There seems to be too much forethought and contingency planning in place for the actual plot to be pulled-off in a number of potential cites. LHO, as a patsy was probably the easiest function to replicate in any of the the other locations, yet he is one example of an asset that was in a single place and could not also be in Chicago and Miami for a hit.

reserved so I can Add without bumping

I though of that after I signed-off last night. But hey, it's the plan A, B, C, D thing ******** edit: Paul. Here is a short thread you may be interested in

Ron, Paul said..... "to blame a lone gunman was always the plan."

Thanks Paul, I am getting a fuller view of your view of 11-22. One thing that seems to have a place in the above is some mention of Parkland, but it is not there. I'll understand if it was not addressed intentionally; I have found that it is a sore spot. Another point that just popped into my head regards the 6th floor. It is said that the floors were being re-done up there. I recall mention of Shelly being mentioned as a supervisor for that work, and other TSBD workers doing the work. That strikes me as being odd. I will keep my eyes open as I read or re-read testimony to see who says tha TSBD employees were doing floor-work on the 6th floor. I don't recall any of that sort of testimony. Hardhats come to mind....... Edit *** flooring crew thread... http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/23079-flooring-crew-in-tsbd/&page=2 Cheers, Michael

Hello Paul, In my reading of the above, we are necessarily being asked if the autopsy, or Parkland line and staff, were part of the "kill Team". *****on second reading, the autopsy people's function could fall under "management"**** Cheers, Michael

My synopsis explained on another thread.... Well Eddy, I believe you have heard this from me before on another thread, but I don't post it frequently because I don't want to sound like a broken record ( it's funny how out-of-date that idiom is), but here is my take on that. My working theory is that the assassination was set-up to be a pre-text for a Cuban invasion, but that invasion plan was undermined by a far-right industrial faction. It is often said that the invasion was aborted for fear of WW3; I am not buying that because that possibility would have been present prior to the planning of, and the act of assassination. So that problem didn't pop-up after the DP hit. I am thinking that Texas industrialists and right-wingers double-crossed Anti-Castro / Mafia element, (who actually did the shooting), by eliminating the evidence of conspiracy and mixed that with a little bit of blackmail. They foiled the conspiracy angle. They did this, hypothetically, by making evidence disappear and making other evidence appear. I suspect a shooter or operative was killed in the Plaza, who was supposed to be ID'd as a Pro-Castro Cuban. They made this body, or person, and other evidence, disappear. They, The Texas industrial and right wing faction, were able to do this because their original responsibility was passive; they were supposed to do nothing, therefore there would be no evidence implicating them locally. Perhaps they were supposed to create a lot of noise, static and background noise so the hit would not come as much of a surprise as well as causing resources to be stretched thin, but that was it. There was noise and static about a hit all over the country. The reason for Double crossing the Pro-invasion faction is that they (the industrial-far right) were not interested in giving Cuba back to Mafia interests and free, independent and prosperous, Spanish-speaking black and Hispanic Catholics. They wanted the war in Vietnam. I also believe that the continued American control of Guantanamo bay was in jeopardy; indeed Guantanamo has never become an issue in all of the intervening years. This also explains why these same anti-Castro elements showed up at Watergate in 1972 and caused Nixon to soil his shorts. They wanted follow-through on the Cuban invasion.

How was Ruby compelled to kill Oswald?...... brainstorming I am imagining something like this took place to coerce Ruby..... When the double-cross plan was triggered, the double crossers told the Mob / ACC there was a problem with the original plan, namely -That information turned-up connecting Ruby to LHO, or OHL, or whatever.... -Nuclear weapons were "discovered" to still be present on Cuba. That info was new and was released only after the hit, in order to avert nuclear war. -That information "surfaced" that tied Carlos Marcello diriectly to Oswald; and that a world of hurt was going to come down on the Mafia. -That information surfaced that tied Myer Lansky to the hit, or made some other Jewish/Mafia connection that would bring a world of hurt down on Jews. This could explain Ruby's comments about (need to verify the exact words) another holocaust. -I am imagining something like this conversation... "Jack, your the only one that can get to him. You have to do it or it's going to mean nuclear war (Or haulocaust, or Mafia Purge)!" And... "Jack, we'll get you a bunch of the best lawyers. You'll be a hero to most of the country. We'll get you out on bail. We'll keep this thing wrapped-up in court for years. We might be able to get you off Scott-free! But, You've got to do it before the funeral is over!" ------------- Jim Garrison, Playboy interview: " "Remember his (Ruby's) repeated lament, "Now there will be pogroms. They will kill all the Jews."? " -------------- Warren Comission testimony of Jack Ruby: "Mr. RUBY. I have been used for a purpose, and there will be a certain tragic occurrence happening if you don't take my testimony and somehow vindicate me so my people don't suffer because of what I have done." ----------------- From the first post of this thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/6924-john-armstrong-hold-the-harvey-and-lee/&_fromLogin=1 "But, I digress. My purpose in starting this thread is to show Forum members a page from 'Documents and Photos for John Armstrong's book Harvey and Lee' by Jerry Robertson This is page 1-05:06 Here is a list of people who place Oswald and Ruby Together" Attorney Carrol Jarnagin Wiburn Litchfield Dorothy Marcum Karl Wahrmund Irene Hise W.M. Hannie Bill DeMar Robert Roy Mary Lawrence Beverly Oliver Ester Ann Mash Wally Weston Bobbie Louise Meserole Raymond Cummings Robert Patterson Walter Ochs Karen Carlin Willis Janet Conforto Kathy Kay Myron Thomas Billet Melba Mercades Preston Dixie Lynn Robie Love Daniel Thomas McGown Nancy Perrin Rich Mike Calahan Ben Cash Vern Davis Maudie Crane George Faraldo Raymond Acker Clyde Malcolm Limbaugh Robert Allen Price Dolores Price Corrine Verges Villard Harvey Wade Helen McIntosh Marion Hayes Karl Wise END Edited May 24, 2006 by Robert Howard ........................... Another Ruby knew Oswald thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/10880-did-ruby-know-oswald/& ........................... Cheers, Michael

Reserved Re: Veciana, Phillips, Oswald meeting This is making sense to me I as I place it against the backdrop of my theory. DAP Phillips is, again, bolstering the confidence of the Anti Castro Cubans. DAP and AV meet and Oswald is produced; a Russian speaking, former defector, former military, (a crack shot Phillips says).. This all happens in the presence of a high-level CIA contact. Perhaps Veciana is told that this Oswald is the fall guy; perhaps he is told that another Oswald whom he has met, or has yet-to-meet is the fall-guy. I am assuming the former right now as I don't really see our DPD LHO inspiring much confidence. I would think that the sheep-dipping operations in New Orleans would have already made LHO known the ACC's in New Orleans. Perhaps the LHO that DAP and Veciana met was not the NOLA sheep-dipped LHO. Maybe Wynne has looked at the whole H&L thing and can speak to whether he now has any doubts about whether he saw H or L. Either way, I have to go over all of the DAP/AV Dallas meeting materials. All of this would imply that Veciana may have known about the Dallas hit and I don't think that he has admitted to that. This also might have been a sheep dipping of Anti-Castro Cubans. Once Veciana Saw LHO being paraded around as the lone patsy, he would have known that he could be personally implicated by virtue of having known and met Oswald, in Dallas. He would also known that a Cuban invasion would not be happening. --------------------------------- There might be some repetition from above, but I'll drop this here: The Veciana/Oswald meeting is now looking to me as a sort of sheep-dipping of the Anti-Castro Cubans. Clandestine cameras or photographers may have taken pictures of AV and LHO together, or coming and going at the same time. Perhaps DAP was taking the pics. These photos could be used to implicate the Ant-Castro Cubans as part of the conspiracy, blowing the plan to blame it on Commie-Cubans. Once LHO became news on the afternoon of 11-22-63, Vecania would have known that they were double-crossed. A Similar situation/scenario probably happened with Ruby and the Mob.

Edit*** just dropping this James McCord thread here... --------------------------- one thing I need to look at is if there was ANY possibility of invading Cuba in 1972. And would the Mob/Anti Castro Cuban faction have had any real prospect of an invasion of Cuba in 1972. Imjust started scratching at the CIA Factbook.