Michael Clark

Ray Herbert. P.105 talks of a Ray Herbert; "Deputy Chief of the Western Hemisphere Division of CIA, who frequently acted a liaison with the State Department...." He is spoken of as working closely with Thomas Devine. Does anyone know any more about this guy? I spent a little time looking before I decided to start this thread. I will add what I find in the associated Research Thread. Cheers, Michael

From the documents release thread, I shared the following Document with this post: "A damning document in the role of the CIA in the assassination of Lumumba. QJWIN WIROGUE Very frank comments by Dulles and Harvey, Arnold Silver https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/157-10005-10297.pdf " Whereas I keep referring back to this document and feel the need to ask questions or bring things from this document to the attention of forum members, I decided to start a new thread with the subject being this document. Rather than continuously bump this thread with every finding, curiosity, or question I will work on this inquiry on the research thread, linked below, which will reside in the JFK Research Form; then I will only reply to this thread when I have a question, something of larger interest or if I reach some milestone. Indeed, I may not be able to avoid taking the time to transcribe it in it's entirety (gulp).

Reserved

This Research thread is a place to work on the following document from the recent, 2017-18 releases. https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/157-10005-10297.pdf There is an associated thread in the JFK Debate forum. I have Post on that forum linking to here. The point of this is so I can develop research on this subject without bumping that Debate Forum thread at every turn. Here is a link to that thread....

Jim, your are dragging ugliness into this forum from from elsewhere. Jim, Hargrove, it looks like you are trying to settle a score on wounds you have taken from outside this forum, by dragging all the baggage into this forum. I am sure it is not lost on you that this is just aggravating to the moderators, and it creates work for them. I am sure that it is not lost on you that this garbage is depressing to the sponsors, admins and moderators. I am sure that it is not lost on you that this garbage is depressing to the members, apart from a very few who like to see a good stirring of the pot; in fact those members have appeared to have been absent lately. I am sure that it is not lost on you that this garbage has repeatedly caused threads to be shut down in the past. I am sure that it is not lost on you that it is pretty selfish of you to try to settle a score here , which was earned elsewhere. Bart, don't get tro11ed.

This might get you to the 1961 directory, which might help. Perhaps from there you can get to the 1963 directory. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24124-dallas-city-directory-1961/ and, I'll ping Ashton, perhaps he has more to add to this thread @Ashton Gray

I wanted to note that this document is essentially 5 documents, covering 5 events and situations: and is of added interest due to this juxtapositioning. P.1-5 re: Cuba P. 6 to P.94. covers, in detail, CIA interest in assassinating Former Congo President Lumumba. P.95 to 109 Discusses to efforts to overthrow Trujillo. P.110 ( The Schneider Report) Discusses efforts towards a coup in Chile. P.142 Re: discussions about Vietnamese president Diem's Presidency The last two pages are pages separated from the earlier section on The Congo. It states that Dulles and Bissell did, indeed, authorize the assassination of Lumumba.

@Paul Brancato p. 68-9, and thereabouts, QJWIN's mission was to work his way through layers of protective custody, both U.N. and Congolese, and convince Lumumba to leave his safety net. Does this sound, to you, like a Skorzeny type mission? It sounds to me like someone with political, rhetorical and persuasive skills; not a rifleman. On the other hand, QJWIN is, in this same document, characterized as having a criminal background; larceny, burglary, and the like, which doesn't really jibe with the persuasive, diplomatic type of man I just described.

Thanks. I didn’t want to overstate it. And I don’t think that you did either.

That’s pretty lame David. You had your “investigation” done for you , 50 years ago; and you can say “ but Blugosi said!.....,” You don’t have to investigate; you don’t have to put yourself out to criticism. Any criticism that comes your way falls straight upon the WC and VB.

There can’t be much doubt about it. And the value of that commodity appreciates significantly when you add the value of denial to the Block to the value of exploitation by the West. And, I’ll repost this in context of resource exploitation and markets... “Refinery Problem in The Congo"   https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/docid-32626330.pdf  https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/docid-32626331.pdf

Thanks for that, Paul

I believe, for the most part, Fonzi and Veciana. Wynne Johnoson’s video is what brought me back into this case, after demurring from the truth for many years; I very much wanted to believe Wynn, and I largely did believe him. His story however jumped the shark completely with his fourth video. I can’t go into detail here but he ended up being entangled with a star studded who’s who cast of characters beyond imagination. That said, his story would make a great movie, or a very instructive dramatic series with a couple of seasons worth of material; outlining, in a fictional way, an unwilling teenage observer to an unlikely sequence of plausible and potentially factual events surrounding the assassination. I confess that I have considered the possibility of the development of this project quite extensively.

I wanted to bump this again. I reason is to let people know that I would be grateful to those who share there findings. Secondly, I wanted to reiterate that I am becoming more convinced that 20 - location codes refer to the CIA HQ, embassy, Consulate or other particular place within a city, as opposed to the city at large. You can see my explanation and some evidence of this in the above-linked CIA Location Codes thread.

As colonel Potter used to say..... "Horse Hockey". It is quite the opposite of course, David. It is you who are wedded to a false story; and are so deep in the muck that you would be hard-pressed to free yourself. Most of us don't really know for sure what happened. We are trying to figure it out. There is no story to be wedded to. We are looking for that story.

Has anyone heard of Gus Alex? https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556613.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556615.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556616.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556617.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556618.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556619.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556620.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556625.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556626.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556627.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556629.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556631.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556632.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556633.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556634.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556643.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556643.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556645.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556646.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32556647.pdf All from the following page, and I presume the docs on Alex continue from where I stopped https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release?page=16&_ga=2.18593977.1657956965.1509547456-224044424.1509547456&sort=asc&order=File Num Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Alex Gus Alex Gus Alex (April 1, 1916 – July 24, 1998) was a Greek-American mobster and high-ranking member of the Chicago Outfit, who succeeded Jake Guzik as the Syndicate's main political "fixer". Early lifeEdit According to William F. Roemer, "Gus, being Greek, could not be 'made,' but he had done it all. His dad had operated a small restaurant at Wentworth and 26th in Armour Square/Chinatown, which was frequented by many members of the Capone, and then the Nitti, mob. Gus and Strongy [Ferraro] had worked in the restaurant from an early age. Both were sharp guys and came to the attention of the boys. Gus had, therefore, been one of them almost since birth.[1] Working primarily for Al Capone's Jewish-American associate, Jake Guzik, Alex would later become his protégé as he rose through the ranks of the Chicago crime family. By 1930, he was suspected in the deaths of at least five unsolved murder cases. Two of the alleged victims, later dying of their injuries in hospital, identified Alex as their assailant as well as three others who were killed after reporting to police extortion and death threats sent by Alex. From Guzik's protege to Syndicate fixer Under Guzik's guidance, Alex became experienced in securing Syndicateprotection through bribery of city officials. By the mid-1940s, Alex was the main liaison between the Chicago Outfit and city hall officials. He granted control of the Loop's illegal gambling and prostitution operations, including a lucrative call girl operation out of prominent downtown hotels (of which many call girls were paid up to $500 to $1,000) Alex's operations brought in an estimated $1 million a month for the Syndicate. Described as "one of the wiliest and slickest crooks" within the Chicago Outfit,[citation needed] Alex would decline to answer questions under the Fifth Amendment over 39 times during his appearance before the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations of the U.S. Senate Committee on Government Operations. During the 1960s, Alex would come under suspicion during his annual ski trips to Switzerland as the US government accused Alex of depositing Outfit money in unnumbered Swiss bank accounts. As a result of the US governments protest (although Illinois Senator Everett Dirksen and Congressman William L. Dawson opposed government action, calling to allow Alex to continue his "sporting trips"), Swiss officials banned Alex from entering Switzerland for 10 years. Later years Remaining a high-ranking member of the Chicago Outfit for over 30 years, Alex would retain his position throughout the reigns of Felice "Paul 'The Waiter' Ricca" DeLucia, Antonino "Tony," "Joe Batters" Accardo, and Salvatore "Sam," "Mooney" Giancana. Alex would continue to consolidate his political influence during the 1970s and 1980s not only within Chicago but expanding into the state capital Springfield, Illinois. An invaluable resource, Alex's political connections would ensure his position with the organization during the unstable leadership of the decade. During Outfit leader Joseph "Joey Doves" Aiuppa's imprisonment, Alex would share overseeing day-to-day activities with underboss Samuel "Wings" Carlisi(being supervised by former leader Accardo, based in Palm Springs, California). Alex died of a heart attack in federal prison after Leonard "Lenny" Patrick, a close Outfit associate, wore a "wire" and taped Alex for the FBI. Quote “It’s a sucker’s game. You can’t win out there, you understand. We got the percentages rigged all in our favor. The longer you stay, the more you play, the more chances you got of losing. I don’t let nobody around me who gambles. A couple thousand, okay, but no gambling!”[2] On Las Vegas casinos.

A damning document in the role of the CIA in the assassination of Lumumba. QJWIN WIROGUE Very frank comments by Dulles and Harvey, Arnold Silver https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/157-10005-10297.pdf

I've had a couple invalid certificate errors lately on other sites myself. It might be the beginning of the end for net neutrality?

That's this thread. Also, Tim Gratz opens this thread up suggesting Mankel. I guess we are trying to figure out who Mankel is as well.

Roselli and QJWIN worked together, per Harvey.. https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/157-10004-10136.pdf

Also mention, Arnold Silver, Corsican assassins, plans for Lumumba assassination

I found another QJ Crypto. It is QJBANNER, and it seems to me that I have seen it before. And QJBANNER-1 is on the MFF list. It was either just added or I overlooked it yesterday. P. 2 https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/157-10004-10068.pdf

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/180-10143-10076.pdf Review of Office of Security files on E. Howard Hunt p.16 (PDF) p. 8. Sec. 19 Memo for the record from department director of security; PPS; dated 2/8/63. Reports hunt call asking whether wife should register under "Foreign Agents Rregistration Act". Since she was doing translation work for the Spanish Embassy. Hunt is reported as fuzzing (?) an answering a question about OS approval and saying his wife is so independent that she would take the job regardless of what he said. Sec. 20. Memo for the record, undated, by Hunt: "Subject: Procurement of Intelligence by Mrs. Dorothy L hunt." 1. On 25 February 1963, I delivered to Mr. W. Lloyd George, Chief, FI, Thermo-fax copies of a memorandum and a letter of transmittal dated 18 and 20 February respectively. Both were prepared by ambassador Antonio Garrinques for Prrince Stanislas Radzivill and take to the latter in New York by Alfonso de Bourbon, 2d. Secretary of the Spanish Embassy in Washington. 2. The purport of the material was to enlist the aid of Rradzzivill in (a) persuading the President to visit Madrid during his next European trip, and (b) conveying to the Preesident the views of Ambassador Garrinques regarding US Latin American relations.

Same document as above.... https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/180-10143-10076.pdf P. 24. Section 30. Undated memo (coverslip dated 12/8/64) from C/Investigations Division to C/SRS. Since 11/19/63 three Covert Security Approval requests have been made by Hunt's office (A/00/CA). These are requests for approvals for ghost writers. All these individuals proved to be "of very dubious loyalty. On 11/19/63 Hunt requested a clearance for Alden L.Todd. This case was canceled on 12/5/63 after derogatory information was discovered. On 12/9/63 Hunt requested clearance for Booten Hindon. A clearance with severe rerictions was given over "serious security objection. Hunt canceled the case on 5/14/64 because the burden of the restrictions......