W. Niederhut

Pat, Molten steel was "flowing like a foundry" at Ground Zero, and visibly cascading from the towers. If you study basic chemistry, you will learn that jet fuel doesn't burn at a high enough temperature to melt steel into a liquid state. Period. Nor was there sufficient jet fuel to burn those massive steel substructures (not to mention the visible explosive pulverization of hundreds of thousands of tons of concrete!) Most of the jet fuel exploded in a fireball on impact with the high upper floors. That false "jet fuel" narrative was promulgated in the mainstream media immediately after the towers were explosively demolished-- by the same man who was in charge of WTC security during the weeks prior to 9/11. It was a coordinated psy op-- analogous to the mass media narrative about Oswald on 11/22/63.

The "paradox" that you describe is actually a mere anomaly. As Mr. Schnapf described, Tucker Carlson's surprising recent advocacy for JFKA truth is anomalous, given his longstanding history of promoting falsehoods on behalf of the right wing Trumplicon establishment. You and Chris Barnard are misinterpreting the significance of "liberal" skepticism about Carlson.

Pat, The collapse of WTC7 was, obviously, an expert, controlled demolition, and the ignorance and denial on the subject is, frankly, depressing. It's not rocket science. Steel skyscrapers don't abruptly collapse to the ground in an abrupt-onset free fall as a result of office fires. In fact, WTC7 collapsed in an abrupt-onset, symmetrical free fall on 9/11 after owner Larry Silverstein " told them to pull it." To whom was he referring as "them?" Your point about valid and wacky theories existing on a spectrum is a good one. The scientific "9/11 Truth" research that I have referred to here is that of the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, and the excellent analyses of Professor David Ray Griffin. I'm not familiar with Fetzer, et.al. And Michael Griffith continues to post utter nonsense about the obvious explosive demolitions of the WTC Twin Towers. The serial explosions that pulverized the concrete and rapidly demolished the massive steel sub-structures of WTC1 and WTC2 are clearly visible and audible on film.

Well, Michael, since you, yourself, keep bringing up the subject of 9/11 here on our JFKA forum-- and making false statements about the 9/11 science data-- how about telling us what the melting point of steel is? Is the question too difficult for you to answer? And tell us how you explain the obvious, visible explosions seen on film during the free fall collapses of the WTC Twin Towers. You keep dodging those basic science questions, while repeating your false tropes about the highly-educated, professionally-accredited scientists, Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth being "nutty." It's the kind of propaganda we are all used to reading in the mainstream media, and on government-funded internet propaganda websites, but it's out of place here on the Education Forum. This is a place where we talk about the suppressed data that debunks false government narratives promoted in the M$M.

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Two questions for the Education Forum. Isn't this forum regarded as, possibly, the most popular forum in the U.S. for discussions about the JFKA research and other research challenging U.S. government narratives about putative black ops? If so, wouldn't it be a logical target for Cass Sunstein-type U.S. government "cognitive infiltrators"-- if they do, in fact, exist? Asking for a friend. 😬

So, once again, Michael Griffith is posting falsehoods about the historical facts, while using false, defamatory terms like "nutty" to describe accurate commentaries about history (and science, in the case of the 9/11 research.) The DiEugenio article (above) about Prouty's history speaks for itself. It's spot on, and well documented. There's nothing "nutty" about it. I will point out to the forum that Griffith has also continued to avoid answering direct questions about his false statements here, while referring to accurate scientific and historical commentaries as "nutty," "deranged," "nutcase," "nutjob," etc. These are direct quotes from his recent posts here on the Education Forum. Doesn't this constitute a violation of Education Forum policies?

On the contrary, blindness about Tucker Carlson's well-documented dishonesty seems, rather, to be an attribute of his conservative fans. As for Carlson's interest in the JFK assassination, many liberals here have welcomed it, myself included. So, your comment is wrong on both accounts. In other words, he's a turkey, but we're all grateful for his surprising interest in the JFK assassination.

LOL...🤪

Frankly, Matt, I'm shocked that an Englishman would allow himself to get so emotional. Chris needs to get a grip on himself, at once, and carry on like a civilized representative of the British Empire. 🤓

Actually, Ron, I enjoyed reading your article. I learned something new by reading it. But I also think it's the kind of thing that Prouty defamers like Michael Griffith will blow out of proportion.

Ron, You're missing the big picture by straining your gnat. How critically important was Prouty's book on JFK, the CIA, and Vietnam, historically? Can you think of anything comparable, written by "Deep State" insiders in the JFK administration? He had rare inside information about CIA special ops, and important clues about the JFK murder mystery. He also had a tendency to speculate about the subject, and occasionally get some minor details wrong.

Yes, and the truly galling thing is that Trump's stochastic terrorism has already resulted in U.S. citizens being injured and murdered. The worst example was the El Paso Walmart Massacre, but there were also the Baltimore newspaper murders. The judge who issued the search warrant for Mar-a-Lago received death threats, as did Ruby Freeman and her daughter in Trump's Georgia election fraud scheme, and Dr. Anthony Fauci and his family. I won't be surprised if some of these prosecutors and judges are attacked by MAGA Bomber types.

Unaware? Mistaken? Ignorant? Take your pick. But don't choke on that NSAM 263 camel.

Bob, I think you are referring to Tucker's misogyny, as it relates to the Abby Grossberg case, right? His "unprofessionalism" in the Dominion case-- lying about Stop-the-Steal-- was identical to what numerous other Fox talking heads did-- Hannity, Bartiromo, Pirro, et.al. Yet, Hannity didn't get canned for lying about Dominion. Also, misogyny and sexual harassment of women has been an integral part of Fox culture for years. So, I wonder about the story circulating today claiming that Murdoch fired Tucker Carlson, in disgust, after he called for a prayer at a recent Heritage Foundation meeting.

Fair enough, Ron. Prouty was, apparently, mistaken about the history of these Japanese conferences. But that doesn't mean that he was "dishonest," as you have stated. A person can be mistaken without being "dishonest." In fact, my studied opinion of Prouty-- speaking as a psychiatrist-- is that the man was far from "dishonest." On the contrary, he was the only "Deep State" insider from the JFK administration who ever had the courage and integrity to come forward with important insights about JFK's Vietnam policy, and CIA and U.S. military motives for assassinating JFK. And he was risking his life to do so. In consequence, he has been falsely smeared by CIA propagandists for 30 years as a "crackpot," a mere "pilot," "anti-Semite," "Holocaust denier," wrong about Dealey Plaza security and the 112th, merely seeking to sell books, etc. None of these defamatory tropes about Prouty are true. At the same time, Prouty's musings about the Tokyo conference (and his misinterpretation of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle) are peripheral to his essential, accurate thesis about the CIA, Vietnam, and JFK's assassination. To use a Biblical analogy, let's not strain a gnat while swallowing a camel.

Who would have been able to "explain" it to him, Ron? In other words, who scheduled the conference that just happened to coincide with the JFK assassination op, and when was it scheduled? Non-rhetorical question.

Ron, Do you know who was involved in scheduling the November 1963 Tokyo Conference, and when it was scheduled? Also, it seems like a stretch to accuse Prouty of "dishonesty" for his speculations about the absence of JFK's Cabinet during the pre-planned assassination of JFK (and his own November mission to Antarctica.) His theorizing may have been incorrect about some minor JFKA details, but that doesn't mean that he was "dishonest." And, in any case, the essential aspect of his insights had to do with the drafting of the McNamara/Taylor Report, NSAM 263, and its subsequent reversal by NSAM 273, LBJ, and McGeorge Bundy. If I recall the details correctly, NSAM 273 had been drafted on November 21st, and delivered to LBJ by McGeorge Bundy on (?) November 25th. Prouty smelled a rat, because he had worked on the preparation of JFK's NSAM 263 policy. Prouty also theorized in his book on JFK, the CIA, and Vietnam, that only someone in a very high government position could have arranged many of the suspicious aspects of the assassination op, including the security lapses in Dealey Plaza, the scrubbing of the limo, and the pre-arranged material in the international media about Oswald as a lone assassin, etc.

And, yet, no one has been willing to put a gag order on Mango Mussolini. They seem reluctant to set limits on his "right" to engage in stochastic terrorism.

Outstanding article, Jim, about the accuracy of Prouty's insights into the history of JFK's Vietnam policy, and the accuracy of his claims about the obstructed deployment of the 112th in Dallas. The Prouty defamers, including Michael Griffith, keep striking out, while claiming that they are hitting home runs. As for Ron Ecker's article, I have two questions. JFK's Dallas trip was, apparently, scheduled in late September of 1963. 1) When were the Tokyo and Honolulu conferences scheduled? 2) Are there any examples, prior to November 22, 1963, of multiple Presidential cabinet members being simultaneously out of the country during a serious national crisis? If not, is it really accurate to describe Prouty as a "l-i-a-r" for saying that the absence of most of JFK's cabinet from the country on 11/22/63 was "unprecedented?"

Jim, You're a walking encyclopedia about the JFK assassination. I have two questions for you, Larry Schnapf, and the forum. 1) Do you believe that Tucker Carlson has a "Deep State" source about the JFKA, as he claimed in his recent famous monologue about JFK's assassination and the records? 2) If so, any thoughts about what Trump and Biden are terrified of divulging about JFK's assassination?

Yes, they aired some progressive Democratic talking points-- Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren stuff-- not exactly the kind of thing that Rupert Murdoch has ever wanted his right wing Fox subculture in the U.S. to hear about. Meanwhile, John, did you take the time to study that list of Politifact's Tucker Carlson whoppers that I referenced for you last night?

Roger, If your theory that Tucker Carlson had no source (for his claims about the JFK assassination) is true, that's quite a whopper-- even for Tucker Carlson. Tucker has told a lot of well-documented whoppers on Fox over the years-- which I referenced here for John Cotter last night-- but I find it implausible that he would have fabricated the story about an inside "Deep State" source tipping him off about the substance of the suppressed JFK records. Some people on the forum have speculated that Donald Trump, himself, was Tucker's "source." At the time of Tucker's original, shocking monologue, I wondered whether Mike Pompeo was the "source," since Pompeo was Trump's CIA Director in October of 2017 when Trump decided in the eleventh hour to block the mandated release of the records.

Leslie, I just saw a story claiming that 70% of Americans don't want Biden to run in 2024. I was hoping that he would graciously retire and support the eventual Democratic nominee.

Yes, and I'm still curious about Tucker's mysterious "source" in the JFKA case. I never doubted his story about having such a "source."