W. Niederhut

Paul, I think we talked about some of this data -- Tulsa, Sturgis, etc.-- on our 2020 "Journal of the Plague Year" thread. It was another one of those post hoc ergo propter hoc viral disasters. 🙄 Three Weeks After Trump's Tulsa Rally, Oklahoma Reports Record High COVID-19 Numbers https://time.com/5865890/oklahoma-covid-19-trump-tulsa-rally/ ‘We Killed Herman Cain’: New Book Paints Damning Portrait of How Trump’s Team Bungled Tulsa Rally Trump's Hail Mary rally in Oklahoma was an even bigger disaster than first reported https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/jonathan-karl-book-betrayal-herman-cain-trump-1256481/

Watching Kevin McCarthy's GOP House debt ceiling bullsh*t reminds me of 2011, and the old adage, "Those who can't remember the past are destined to repeat it." Remember when the stock markets dropped 10% in the summer of 2011-- after the Tea Party House caused a downgrade in the U.S. credit rating? As expected, McCarthy and the Republicans want to Starve the Beast-ly working class, while Trump has recently proposed measures to criminalize poverty. Meanwhile, Arkansas Repubs are trying to roll back child labor laws that were enacted in the Progressive era. What's next-- helping the GOP Robber Barons bring back the seven day work week? 🙄

Jim, My answer to your question-- as I posted (above) with reference links about Trump and Fox-- is that Trump and his Fox echo chamber fostered a culture of denial, hostility, and resistance to basic public health measures during the COVID pandemic. And, in the U.S., Trumpsters died of COVID at significantly higher rates than "liberals." As an example, I previously posted the true story of an old college buddy of my brother-in-law who died of COVID after attending Trump's infamous Tulsa super spreader rally during the summer of 2020.

Leslie, You must have overlooked my comments about the fact that this thread isn't about Carto or the Liberty Lobby. You seem to be colluding in Griffith's tireless highjacking of this thread. Focusing on the Liberty Lobby is a CIA propaganda straw man that has been used for the past 30 years to discredit Prouty's original whistleblowing about the CIA, Vietnam, and the JFK assassination. As for the timing of Prouty's revelations about his colleague Ed Lansdale, when did he and General Krulak first ID Lansdale in the Dealey Plaza photos? As for JFK's critically important decision to get out of Vietnam in 1963, surely you're not joining Griffith in denying that history are you?

Addendum #2: Levitz: ‘Fox News is literally killing its viewers’ with Covid lies (msnbc.com)

Addendum: All the President’s Lies About the Coronavirus An unfinished compendium of Trump’s overwhelming dishonesty during a national emergency All of Trump’s Lies About the Coronavirus - The Atlantic

Jim, I agree with your point about the M$M unfairly smearing RFK, Jr. out of the gate, but this RFK, Jr. quote (above) about Trump's handling of the COVID pandemic is utterly absurd. Trump repeatedly bungled the management of the COVID pandemic, from its inception, and his egregious errors and false statements resulted in hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths in the US. He fostered a culture of denial, hostility, and resistance to basic public health measures, while promoting unscientific claims about quack cures-- bleach, hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, etc. Compare Trump's disastrous COVID track record with the astonishingly effective public health response to the pandemic in Vietnam. There is a reason why Trump's cult members in the U.S. died at significantly higher rates than Biden voters during the COVID pandemic. Actually, two reasons-- Donald Trump and Fox "News."

How ironic that Prouty critic Chip Berlet finally agrees-- after all these years-- with Col. L. Fletcher Prouty's original claims about Deep State motives for JFK's murder. So much for the oft-repeated disinformation about Prouty being a right wing fascist, anti-Semite, Holocaust denier, etc., etc. Leslie, have you and Michael Griffith studied Prouty's original commentary about NSAM 263 and NSAM 273 in his book about JFK, the CIA, and Vietnam? He was way ahead of the curve on this subject, based on his direct involvement in the writing of the McNamara/Taylor Report in 1963.

I have a lot of respect for Edward Curtin, but I don't agree with some of his premises in this article-- especially regarding public health issues and Dr. Anthony Fauci. Nor are most of the Ukrainians fighting against Putin's totalitarian police state "N-a-z-i-s." Nor do I agree with Curtin's characterization of Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden as "jackals," although I agree with his assessment of the pervasive power and influence of the CIA in post-JFK America. Even our best Presidents in the post-JFK era have kowtowed to the CIA. I sincerely appreciate RFK, Jr.'s openness to discussing Operation Northwoods and our suppressed CIA history. Who else in American politics has ever done that? Like RFK, Jr., Camus's novel The Plague (and his essay on The Myth of Sisyphus) has also had a major influence on my own life and work, but it's ironic that RFK, Jr. references it in the context of his anti-scientific movement against the use of vaccines to prevent plagues! Needless to say, I don't think Dr. Bernard Rieux (of Oran) would have approved of RFK, Jr.'s anti-vaccine movement. In The Plague, Rieux was eager to use any means medical science offered to save lives-- an example to us all. 🤥

Thanks for sharing. Do you mind mentioning what you do for a living? I notice that you have written some history book(s) and have a website. You're also a Civil War buff, which is interesting. A lot of the people on this forum are older retired folks with free time on their hands, but you appear fairly young in your forum photo.

Steve, The question I keep asking myself about Dominion's $787 million in damages is this. What about the serious damage that Rupert Murdoch and Fox have done to the United States?

If it's Shakespearean, I hope it ends like MacBeth-- with the usurping Thane's orange head on a pike. 🤥

Does anyone have a reference link for Michael Griffith's oft-repeated slander that Prouty was "anti-Semitic?" I'd like to study the specific details of Prouty's alleged "anti-Semitism." The Washington Post did publish a letter from Prouty in 1997 describing Prouty's observations about some oil pipelines in Palestine that were affected by the establishment of the Israeli state in 1948.* Is this Prouty comment about Middle East oil supplies and Israel supposed to be "anti-Semitic?" I think this question is related to more general debates-- at the UN and elsewhere-- about whether any real or imagined criticism of Israel constitutes "anti-Semitism." https://prouty.org/ * This was printed in The Washington Post, March 5, 1997 Letters to the Editor Hidden Causes of Mideast Strife=5> Stephen S. Rosenfeld's Feb 14 op-ed column, "A Tragedy for Israel - and Maybe a Way Out", is most informative but unacceptably lacking in historical facts. In late 1943, when I was flying the Chinese delegation to the Teheran Conference from Cairo (that the Chinese were there also is a little-known fact), I took advantage of the eight huge oil pipelines - which stretched across the desert from the Mosul and Kirkuk oil fields of Iraq to Haifa, the seaport in Palestine - as a fix for navigation across that desert. In 1948, just after the creation of the state of Israel, the port of Haifa was closed, and those pipelines went dry. Iraq was forced to find another way to the sea and essential shipping. Later the expanding oil production of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait required an outlet to the Mediterranean Sea to Europe. They built the largest oil pipeline in the world - i.e., TAP-LINE. Later, when Israel felt it necessary to invade Lebanon "to protect its northern border," it encountered TAP-LINE when it closed the port of Sidon. That enormous oil transportation system was closed to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and they have had to create an alternative to their markets in Europe. These pipelines from Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia remain closed. Needless to say, this Israeli action stirs up the Arab world and decreases the availability of oil for us all. As a result, Israel's "Lebanon policy" and its Syrian "proxy war" are not exactly the result of "terrorist" activities alone. Even Syria has closed the alternative Iraqi oil outlet that once ran across its territory until it too was closed in 1975. If anyone is looking for the cause of this never-ending turmoil in these Middle Eastern countries, he might do well to read such sources as the "ARAMCO Handbook" or other publications that contain the facts and not contrived, fanciful alternatives. Old pilots have long memories. L. FLETCHER PROUTY Alexandria

Griffith, Which 9/11 academicians and scientists and research findings are you referring to here? Specify for us. Have you studied the scientific evidence that WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 were demolished by explosives on 9/11? It's not even a theory. It's a scientific fact. As for claims that the "Moon landings were phony," why do you imagine that they have anything to do with the serious research about 9/11 and the JFK assassination? Claiming that conspiracy theories are monolithic is one of the most moronic tricks in the CIA propaganda playbook. No one with an IQ above room temperature believes that conspiracy theories are monolithic. You're on the wrong forum. People here are educated.

Folks, Should we report Michael Griffith to the ADL for his ongoing defamation of Col. L. Fletcher Prouty? 🙄 Meanwhile, while we're all waiting for Michael Griffith to stop deflecting and answer my questions about who pays him to sit around all day posting debunked disinformation about 9/11, Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, NSAM263, and the JFK assassination, I thought it would be worth posting Prouty's own comments almost 30 years ago about the false allegations that he was a right-wing anti-Semite, Holocaust denier, etc. These are from Len Osanic's Prouty.org website-- a useful resource for debunking Michael Griffith's bunk. https://prouty.org/ As I posted a few days ago, Michael Griffith seems to be walking in the footsteps of the CIA guys who have been posting defamatory nonsense about Prouty for the past 30 years. Interestingly, Prouty asked the same question about his defamer, David Fuhrman, that I recently asked Michael Griffith-- "Who is paying him to write this nonsense? Who is he working for?" Col. L. Fletcher Prouty Responds to Accusations of Involvement in Right Wing Extremist Groups Interview Date: April 3, 1996 "Esquire magazine published an article, in which they just made up these things, I've never written for Liberty Lobby. I've spoken as a commercial speaker, they paid me to speak and then I left. They print a paragraph or two of my speech same as they would of anybody else, but I've never joined them. I don't subscribe to their newspaper, I never go to their own meetings, but they had a national convention at which asked me to speak and they paid me very, very well. I took my money and went home and that's it". I go to the meeting, I go home, I don't join. That sole speech was years ago and was no different than the speech I gave at the Holocaust Memorial Conference. I spoke my own words and ideas. I do admit to having been a rather active public speaker for all types of audiences, on a commercial except for Rotary, They're gratuitous from my point of view. "The funny thing was two months earlier I had spoken at the Holocaust Conference for the second annual meeting of the Holocaust Group which I learned later the Liberty Lobby is completely opposed to. Dr. Littel, of the Holocaust Memorial organization invited me to attend and make a few comments,as others were requested. Col. Prouty has been asked to attend at the Holocaust Conference again later this year ! Well, they put all this in this Esquire magazine but did it all backwards, as though I was a member, writing with these people or joining them. The only club I've joined is the Rotary Club !". The attempt of character assassination is a sign you have become a small threat. Others, at the levels I know of, have played up that as though I had been converted to something. It is just their "gentlemanly" tactic of dealing with people they can't handle otherwise.. In fact it is a CIA characteristic trait...as I well know. When they can't handle you, they attack your character. This classic was found on the internet; " An essay written from a leftist perspective by Chip Berlet, deals with the ties, and Mark Lane, and the extreme right-wing paranoid Liberty Lobby. Nothing here shows Prouty to be a National Socialist or an anti-Semite, but shouldn't he show better judgment in whom he associates with?" This implies I associate with National Socialists, or why else write it! The writings of Furhmann, Perry, Berlet, Posner, etc. are slick, cleverly written, but not based in the true facts. I wonder what they do for a living? where they work? Who pays them to write? My credentials are laid out for all to see. L.Fletcher Prouty

Huh, Griffith? What additional bunk are you spewing now? It's a shame that Leslie Sharp, or anyone on this forum, still takes your disinformation seriously. "Deranged claims by 9/11 Truthers?" Are you referring to the scientific data of the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth? Do tell us what is "deranged" about their scientific data. Have you ever studied the academic credentials of the many scholars, scientists, and engineers involved in the 9/11 Truth movement? What is it about the free fall collapses of WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 that you still don't understand? What abruptly demolished the steel sub-structures of the Twin Towers and WTC7 on 9/11, allowing the steel towers to rapidly crumble to the ground at a rate approximating the acceleration of gravity?

Joe, Good point about Lansdale's relationship with Dulles. Prouty also pointed out that Ed Lansdale was bitterly disappointed about JFK nixing Lansdale's further involvement in Vietnam ops, and transferring Lansdale to Mongoose.

Paul, Speaking of guilt by association, here's a photo of Allen Dulles with his favorite CIA black ops/psy ops expert, General Ed Lansdale, and Dulles's Deputy CIA Director, General Charles Cabell. Cabell's brother, Earle, the Mayor of Dallas on 11/22/63, was recently outed as a CIA asset. I think Earle was riding in the lead car in JFK's Dallas motorcade. Prouty and General Victor Krulak ID'd their long-time colleague, Ed Lansdale, in Dealey Plaza photos, and wondered what in the hell Lansdale was doing in Dallas on 11/22/63.

Do you folks remember what happened in the summer of 2011, when John Boehner, Paul Ryan, and the Tea Party House turned down Obama's "Mother-of-All-No-Brainers" deal to raise the debt ceiling? This happened after the same House Republicans had voted, repeatedly, to raise the debt ceiling for the Bush/Cheney administration, en route to DOUBLING the national debt from 2001 to 2009 with their 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for billionaires. And these current House Republicans-- Kevin McCarthy, et.al.-- increased the national debt by $8 trillion dollars during Trump's four years in the White House, by passing massive tax cuts for billionaires and corporations. Now they want to, literally, "Starve the Beast," by cutting food stamps for the poor. McCarthy Takes Debt Ceiling Plan to Wall Street (politicalwire.com)

Sandy, We all owe Jeff Carter a big thank you for his diligence in meticulously debunking Michael Griffith's bogus 30 year-old defamatory CIA fabrications about Prouty. (I was approaching this subject from a different angle-- emphasizing Prouty's credibility and distinguished record of military service to the U.S.) I don't think it's a stretch to theorize that the CIA's propaganda establishment deliberately fabricated and planted defamatory talking points about Prouty in the mainstream media 30+ years ago, after he emerged as a Deep State whistleblower for Olver Stone's film, JFK. Then, they have simply repeated the same defamatory talking points on websites, internet forums, radio shows, etc., during the past 30 years. Classic propaganda. Have multiple propagandists repeat the lies, until the public believes they are true.

Russian Court Sentences Putin Critic to 25 Years Russian Court Sentences Putin Critic to 25 Years (politicalwire.com) April 17, 2023 “A Russian court convicted Kremlin critic Vladimir Kara-Murza for treason and sentenced him to 25 years in prison after he criticized the government of President Vladimir Putin and his invasion of Ukraine,” the Wall Street Journal reports. “The sentence is the longest to have been handed to a Russian opposition figure since the war in Ukraine began in February last year. It comes after a sweeping clampdown on all forms of dissent and the detentions of more than 20,000 antiwar activists for participation in protest rallies, social-media posts and even private conversations denouncing Mr. Putin.”

Here's another one of those "good Republican ideas" from America's Koch-funded GOP think tanks. Cut "welfare" for the poor, to fund corporate welfare and tax cuts for billionaires. Hawkeye Henry Wallace, who created the food stamp program, is probably rolling over in his grave. Iowa Republicans Will Spend Millions Kicking Families Off Food Stamps Iowa's bill on limiting SNAP benefits is a bold attack, experts say - The Washington Post April 16, 2023 Excerpt The state legislature, with the support of the Republican supermajority, was poised to approve some of the nation’s harshest restrictions on SNAP. They include asset tests and new eligibility guidelines. By the state’s own estimate, Iowa will need to spend nearly $18 million in administrative costs during the first three years — to take in less federal money. The bill’s backers argue the steps would save the state money long term and cut down on “SNAP fraud.” The measure is part of a broader national crackdown on SNAP, the federal program at the heart of the nation’s welfare system. The proposed legislation was not a homegrown effort but the product of a network of conservative think tanks pushing similar SNAP restrictions in Kentucky, Kansas, Wisconsin and other states. But experts say Iowa’s represents the boldest attack yet on SNAP, and Republicans in Congress have signaled a similar readiness to impose limits on federal food assistance.

Kirk, Geez... You have often posted insightful, humorous comments on the Education Forum, since I first joined a few years ago, but you have always been weirdly off target in your attacks on Oliver Stone and James DiEugenio's critically important work on the JFKA and Vietnam-- some of which (in Oliver Stone's case) has been directly informed by Prouty's rare insights about CIA special ops, Saigon Station, and JFK's Vietnam policies. So, I'm not surprised that you have been suckered by Michael Griffith's scurrilous, deflective attacks on Fletcher Prouty on this thread. Griffith has repeatedly highjacked this thread with the same old bogus CIA propaganda tropes that have been used for the past 30 years in an attempt to smear and discredit Prouty's whistleblowing on the CIA-- accusing Prouty of being anti-Semitic, a Holocaust denier, a Scientologist, etc. It's all bunk. What has Prouty, himself, said about these bogus CIA allegations? Did you read my original post on that subject, on this thread? Apparently not, since you mistakenly imagine that I "have contributed nothing" on that subject. I posted the first reference here to Oliver Stone's Esquire commentary on the subject of the CIA's "character assassination" of Fletcher Prouty, and Prouty's history of speaking at the Holocaust Memorial. The basic question I would ask you, apropos of my original, censored thread title, is, "Who are the real crackpots-- CIA whistleblower Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, or the CIA propagandists who have used their mainstream media (and internet) assets for the past 30 years to falsely impugn Prouty's reputation?

Yeah... I read this story in the Washington Post today. Before his confirmation hearing, Kacsmaryk removed his name from a paper on abortion published in the Texas Law Review. This has been a pattern with a lot of these Trump judges, including Kacsmaryk, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and Coney Barrett. They have all dissembled about their position on abortion during their confirmation hearings. Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and Coney Barrett all repeated that mantra about Roe v. Wade being "established law."

Kirk, C'mon, man. I'm surprised that my satirical intent sailed over your head. I used the term "crackpot" in the original thread title as a satire about the 30-year CIA propaganda campaign to smear and discredit CIA whistleblower, Fletcher Prouty, after his critically important revelations about CIA history were publicized in Oliver Stone's film, JFK. You and Greg Doudna have both missed the boat on this thread, while blathering about Michael Griffith's Liberty Lobby straw man. Did you bother to read and listen to Greg Burnham's commentaries about Prouty at the top of this thread-- before Michael Griffith hijacked the thread with his John McAdams/Liberty Lobby garbage?