Benjamin Cole

My guess is that Garrison knew that Shaw was an mid-stage handler of LHP, not the JFKA mastermind. Garrison was following the standard and legitimate DA technique of trying to get the mid-level guys to crack, and say who they were working for. But to define Shaw as entirely innocent is a bit of a stretch. Shaw lied about his other identity, lied about his being a CIA asset, lied about knowing Oswald. Shaw, a CIA asset who handled the CIA asset Oswald a few months before the JFKA, and participated in New Orleans conversations in which the JFKA is discussed...well, I would not call that "innocent." Nor is there any evidence that Shaw did what any decent citizen should have done: Gone to the FBI and said, "You know there are group of guys down in in NO, who discuss killing a sitting US president. Some have the credentials to back up their talk. Maybe just braggadocio, but maybe not."

That is an interesting story in Counterpunch, and pretty good for a general media publication. Missing is mention of Dr. Ernst Titovets, who was perhaps LHO's best friend in Minsk, but also likely an asset of the old KGB. Titovets and Oswald re-enacted plays and faux interviews, and tape recordings were made. Again, in some respects this stupifying. Kids today might think recording personal events is commonplace. The number of people who tape-recorded themselves in the late 1950s-early 60s, in non-media events, is miniscule, or better said, microscopic. Titovets, an accomplished academic in Russia, says he found conversation with LHO to be stimulating and worthy. Those sentiments would be echoed a few years later by George de Mohrenschildt, the CIA asset in Dallas. Whatever we think of Titovets and de Mohrenschildt's character, politics and motivations, both were highly intelligent fellows and again their observations directly conflict with the WC-media image of LHO as the high-school dropout, leftie-loser-loner. It appears LHO could hold his own in conversations with academic-intellectual sorts of people. BTW, both Titovets and de Mohrenschildt say (or said) they do not believe LHO accomplished the JFKA.

Ditto!

I can't say I disagree with you. But what I have been trying to tell is a plausible version of the JFKA with very few pre-JFKA witting participants. Very few, like the fingers on an old woodworker's hand. Having many witting participants, across many organizations local and national, in the assassination of a sitting US President...well, stretches credulity.

Paul--- I am certainly open to the idea that a US military-intel and ops team did the JFKA, and not Eladio Del Valle and Hermininio Garcia, or other similar characters, who simply piggybacked on a false-flag fake assassination attempt. It still leaves me with a puzzle: John Newman and other serious researchers have posited the CIA had an operational interest in LHO, and had done an LHO biography-build. Newman has gone even further, and said the CIA did this with the intent of planting the WWIII virus after the JFKA. Man, that is ugly. But read Newman's WWIII virus idea. That is what Newman has posited. OK, if Newman was and is right, then (I guess) the CIA called in the US military-ops team, the team did the JFKA, and LHO was the patsy. How did they make sure LHO was not on the street waving at the President? Perhaps something so simple as duping him into a backroom in the warrens of the TBSD. My guess is they duped LHO into the sniper's nest for a fake JFKA. He fired the shot that indirectly nicked Tague, which evidently passed over the JFK limo by 20 feet or more. LHO ran downstairs, feigned nonchalance, deduced something was seriously wrong, and left for home and his gun. I surmise LHO figured out he was the patsy rather quickly. Of course, what is the definition of a US military, or Army, ops team? Might it include Cuban exiles? Might it include US soldiers temporarily dis-attached the military? An organizationally informal set-up, so the Army can disavow any knowledge? So, my favored scenario, and the one Newman may come up with, may nearly be twins. Let us see what Newman comes up with. The JFKA strikes me as a CIA operation, and LHO as the patsy, even if the shooters were Army-related. The CIA biography-build on LHO, and the WWIII virus are certainly powerful clues. Newman does seem to be deeply suspicious of Veciana, even carping that Veciana (who speaks Spanish) initially referred to "Morris Bishop" and not "Maurice Bishop,' as if this modest change in a name was another example of a changing narrative by Veciana. For that matter, E. Howard Hunt could not explain where he was on Nov. 22, and then later in life probably fabricated a tall tale about the JFKA. What is not fabricated is that Hunt was CIA.

Yes, but did the Negro who picked up LHO have red hair?

I sure wonder if John Newman, an excellent JFKA researcher, will now "show the money." Earlier, Newman has posited LHO as a CIA biography-build, and part of a WWIII virus that stifled the post-JFKA investigation. Now Newman is hinting at military intel and ops outside the CIA did the JFKA, and that Antonio Veciana was mistaken or worse in stating (publicly, recorded, on the record) that Veciano met LHO with David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in September-ish 1963. OK, show us the money. Can Newman get us closer than the scholar Larry Hancock?

Jim D. knows his stuff (to put it mildly), and the Rose Cheramie angle is compelling. That LHO knew Clay Shaw, Ferrie and many other anti-Castro elements, or CIA assets in New Orleans, seems beyond reasonable doubt. The Clinton episode is just one of many. Researchers should remember that affidavits and other paper materials were often "bent" by officials to fit a narrative. Back then there were no smartphones, and tape-recordings were not routinely made (indeed, the FBI by rule did not tape-record interviews---to what purpose?). Even LHO was interviewed without a tape recorder and scant note-taking. Beyond all that, earnest JFKA researchers are trying to pry the truth out of opaque and obstructionist government officials. Sometimes disinformation is planted. Other times information is destroyed. Jeez, if you want to find fault in the JFKA, I think officialdom is front and center by a mile. The most important political murder in US history results in the shoddy investigation and an ersatz autopsy, and bogus evidence (CE399). Just happened that way? Rather unlikely, no?

The movie "1984" sums it up nicely as well. There are dangerous subversives to hunt down and extinguish, and there are constant foreign threats and wars. This pattern repeats; the names change.

Good one.

Lansdale is certainly an excellent example of the kind of guy who would easily transverse organizational boundaries. I may place too much faith in Antonio Veciana, who said he met David Atlee Phillips in the company of LHO. Phillips was also an expert PR guy. This leads me to suspect a small, LHO-Phillips deal on a false-flag JFKA.

So does serious researcher John Newman (think military elements were involved), but he is being a bit coy right now. So far, everything serious leads back to CIA and Cuban exiles. Larry Hancock of course has done serious work in this line. One thing I say: There are lines on pieces of paper, showing organizational structures and separate silos etc. Then there are human beings who talk and organize with each other informally, to get around suffocating organizational rules and oversight. Judging from your photo, I guess you would occasionally dabble in the informal category of behavior. So maybe to say any particular operation "was a CIA op" is roughly right, but the CIA borrowed a couple of guys from another agency, and a retiree from somewhere, and used a couple private contractors for cover, and hired a cute call-girl as a decoy. And the subsequent paperwork would not reflect the reality of what happened. I still fall back on my main view: The pre-JFKA witting participants had to be few in number. Like single-hand count, of an old woodworker.

Robert B.-- Something close to that is my take. I think the CIA (David Atlee Phillips) planned a fake false-flag JFKA. Shoot at JFK, miss, and blame Castro-ites. This would trigger a regime change operation in Cuba. But CIA-Cuban assets learned about the plan and then piggybacked on the operation, and played for real. This explains the sophisticated long-term CIA biography-build on LHO, but also why you have lesser lights like Sergio Arcacha-Smith and Rose Cheramie heading to Dallas. This also explains why the CIA was at great pains to cover everything up (to put it mildly). I surmise CIA higher-ups had to give the semaphore to mob-connections to ice LHO. Who would hire Ruby, you say? The CIA does not have infinite resources. They needed someone who could penetrate the DPD, yet had no identifiable ties to the CIA. How many people are floating around like that? And Ruby had run guns to Cuba before.

"Northwoods may have been the impetus for the rumored false flag assassination team that only intended to near-miss or wound people in the limo. That plan would have been co-opted by additional shooters, just as a defense exercise could be escalated into an invasion."---David A. Yeah, that's roughly my view of the JFKA.

W. Tracy P--There is an old saying, "Never judge a book by its cover." There seems little doubt Rose Cheramie was down on her luck, in with drugs, other vice. With a few strokes of bad luck, who could say what would happen to most of us? But more importantly, her background is not important as much as the timing of what was said. Multiple witness indicate she talked about the JFKA before it happened, and that the drug deal in which she was participating was for real. There does seem be be more than a few connections between the drug world and Cuban exiles. Antonio Veciana went to prison on a drug deal, Eladio Del Valle apparently slaughtered in a drug deal, and Sergio Arcacha-Smith was evidently in a drug deal. That's off the top of my head. I agree with you, that a high-level CIA assassination plot would have little to do with the Rose Cheramie or Smith. On the other hand, the CIA was running LHO (read John Newman), and doing a biography build on him (Newman, Dan Hardway). LHO was in the TSBD when the JFKA happened. LHO quickly left the premises and armed himself. Shots separately struck Connally and JFK in too-rapid succession to have been fired by one single-shot bolt-action rifle. Gunsmoke was heavy in Dealey Plaza. I would say LHO and the CIA, possibly another group were "involved" in the JFKA. My take is rogue CIA assets, such as Smith, learned of a fake, false-flag assassination JFKA planned by the CIA (likely David Atlee Phillips). Those assets successfully piggybacked on the CIA-public relations stunt. This is how Rose Cheramie came to hear talk about the JFKA before it happened. She was in the milieu of the CIA assets (who were also running drugs) but not in with the CIA itself.

Indeed, an arresting officer at the Texas Theater said out loud, "Shoot the President, will you?" But if the DPD wanted LHO dead, they had ample opportunity at the Texas Theater. I can tell you if any suspect attempts to brandish a weapon at an Los Angeles Police Department officer, they will be dead before their hand touches the weapon. That the DPD arrested an armed man without killing him tells a lot. In my view, someone told the DPD who to look for, the slightly off description from military records. A phone call from the CIA or FBI to the DPD. The DPD becomes unwittingly complicit in the JFKA, and starts to build a case against the assassin. I do not wish to criticize people who are earnestly trying to get to the bottom of the JFKA, as am I. McBride suggests Tippit was murdered not by Oswald, but by fellow JFKA plotters who wished to call a lot of police cars and police into the neighborhood. Tippit was sacrificed for the cause. However, McBride surmises this. I disagree with his take on the matter.

A few years back, I did read the book. I do not like to criticize members of the JFKA research community, so I am mute. But if you want to put together some compelling hard facts regarding Tippit's knowing participation in the pre-JFKA plot, I am receptive. Sheesh, 50-65 years ago when I grew in Los Angeles County, some of the county Sheriffs were corrupt, and mean-spirited as well. So it goes.

That is true. Philip Shenon, decades later, repeated the poorly supported idea that Castro or Castroites were behind the JFKA. Much more likely, the CIA handled LHO for years, did a long-term biography build, and planned a unsuccessful false-flag assassination attempt on JFK with LHO as the suspect. Then, someone piggy-backed on the false-flag plan in earnest.

Ron B.: Thanks for reading. OK, build the "Tippit was in on the JFKA" case citing from the book. .... To me, the most curious thing is the appearance of LHO's wallet at the Tippit crime scene. It seems likely the wallet was planted, although not beyond reasonable doubt that it simply fell from LHO's body somehow. I am open-minded. But even if the wallet was planted, it could have been done so by a CIA asset, not the DPD. Curiously, the DPD was telling people the wallet was in LHO's back pocket. Interesting....

Gee, and the timing of this Alecia Long book on Garrison is....right before the Oct. 26 deadline for releasing the remaining JFK files? And I see... to admire Garrison's work is to be anti-LGBTQ. The CIA is woke, btw, just watch their recruitment ads. Right. Garrison was so far off-base that CIA deputy chief Raymond Rocca was asked to investigate Garrison. On 20th September, 1967, CIA officer Wistar Janney reported: "Rocca felt that Garrison would indeed obtain a conviction of Shaw for conspiring to assassinate President Kennedy". As we now know, Clay Shaw was Clay or Clem Bertrand and was a CIA asset. Garrison made a lot of mistakes in that trial, such as putting Charles Spiesel on the stand or putting Russo under some sort of drug. Likely, Shaw was a CIA handler of sorts, not a direct or immediate JFKA plot participant. But in the bigger picture Garrison was roughly right.

Joseph M. --- In the JFKA plot, or complicit in the post-JFKA cover-up? My take is the actual JFKA had a very small number of participants. Perhaps four or five. Why include anyone from the DPD? Were local cops in Miami and Chicago brought in to facilitate possible hits in those cities? Wouldn't that start to get a bit risky? After the fact, a cover-up or the "LHO the lone commie nut" narrative was more or less directed from on high, and likely involved the murder of LHO. Foot soldiers and the media fell in line.

That is a great speech, and Castro was right in many ways. But I have reservations about such pronouncements, whether by Henry Wade, CBS, LIFE magazine, Katzenbach, Castro or whoever that were made with 24 hours of the JFKA. At that point, no one knew whether LHO was a demented lone nut, a foreign agent, a CIA operative, a mob soldier or what have you. Everyone was talking their narrative, or parroting authority. As an aside, the global security Deep State (as noted by Sen Richard Russell) quickly dropped Cuba and became obsessed with SE Asia, from Indonesia to Laos, to Cambodia to Vietnam. If the JFKA was done for a foreign-policy reason....

Paul M--- A very interesting speech and deeply insightful. I have some reservations in that Castro, like Henry Wade, like US media, like Katzenbach, was jumping to conclusions, on Nov. 23. For all anyone knew, LHO (on Nov. 23) could have been a demented loner, or a CIA operative, or part of disgruntled group of CIA cast-offs, or a Castro-affiliate with several co-conspirators unknown. The media played the role of willing dupes, Castro played his game, and the CIA played theirs. Today, I contend LHO was a CIA asset, and there were at least two, and likely three guns fired that day in Dealey Plaza. Interestingly, as even Sen. Richard Russell noted, the US Deep State lost interest in Cuba and went deep into SE Asia after the JFKA. Consider Indonesia, Vietnam and SE Asia----much more important than Cuba.

The Rose Cheramie narrative is compelling, and appears to hold water. This does raise an interesting point. The horrid little men transporting and dumping Rose Cheramie do not seem part of a sophisticated high-end JFKA operation. They were loose-lipped, vulgar, running dope and took huge chances. Maybe doped up themselves. Bragged about the pending JFKA and then tossed a witness on the roadside. This is not James Bond, unless they are purely decoys. Sergio Arcacha Smith fits more with low-end rogue CIA elements doing the hit, somehow married to or piggy-backed onto the high-end CIA LHO biography build. This is largely my scenario of what happened.

As with principles in the nation's Capital...I see nothing.