Benjamin Cole

Man, is it odd or what? But, as you may know, there are many directly conflicting accounts that day in Bethesda, some, like Osborne's, that are simply inexplicable. You would think Osborne, at some point in his career, would have realized he had a hallucination. Perhaps he never read other people's accounts of JFK's body. Again, it is mere speculation on my part, but there were so many conflicting accounts that day in Bethesda, by otherwise sane professionals, that maybe something was in the air. On top of all that, this was a signal event in the career of everyone involved. Sure, a guy could forget this medical event or that one, in a long career. But the JFK autopsy?

You know, this has been bouncing around the back of my head, and I ran across it again in Vincent Palamara's new book. This is from Admiral David Osborne's statement to the HSCA. He is not some lulu off the street. What to make of this? A "fully intact missile"? And JFK was "fully dressed"? If Osborne was nuts, how did he become an Admiral? Or Chief of Surgery? There are so many strange and conflicting observations at Bethesda that day, one wonders if some sort of hallucinogenic gas was afloat. How does an Admiral remember JFK arriving fully dressed? Or a intact copper-clad bullet rolling out of his coat?

Big issue here. Amazon, Google, Youtube, Twitter, Facebook have become de facto town squares. But they can keep anyone out. Sabotage anyone. Some people like censorship, when it goes their way. But that is the thing about censorship. Once the wolfhounds are set loose...

Interesting take by David Stockman, the old Reagan official: Authored by David Stockman via Contra Corner blog, There have been few politicians in modern times who have done more to undermine personal liberty, capitalist prosperity, small government and especially world peace than the Cheney Clan. So upon Liz Cheney’s ouster from the #3 job in the US House GOP hierarchy, we say: Good riddance! And, no, we don’t begrudge her vote to impeach the Donald. The man is such an insufferable bully-boy and megalomaniac that upon his richly deserved exile from Washington her "yes" vote amounted to little more than a slightly offensive Bronx cheer. But what is profoundly offensive about the Cheneys is their central role in high-jacking the Republican Party in behalf of the demented worldview of a small priesthood of neocon intellectuals. The latter have turned the Warfare State of the now defunct cold war with the Soviet Union into a globe-spanning imperialist monster that has bled America dry fiscally and unleashed unjustified destruction and mayhem all around the planet in a manner that would have put even Imperial Rome to shame. Stockman is probably right. There are problems about 100 times larger than that of Trump, who is receding on the horizon as we speak. The real problem is the establishment Donks agree with the Cheney GOP: A globalized hyper-mobilized military and surveillance state is the way to go. By working with The Intercept, you too can join the cyber-Stasi....

Great one. Huey's son, I think. And you know what happened to Huey.

Chris B. Verily. Too bad so many decades have passed. I would bet even money that the Fernandez individual, mentioned in this thread, had some US intel backing. The guy started and owned newspapers, ends up in the US. Appears to be unemployed, while his wife works.

Steve Roe-- I welcome examination of evidence in the JFKA, and earnest civil debate. You did miss something in your brief dismissal of this strange episode. If you go to this link, you will see WC document 3067 https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/pdf/WH26_CE_3067.pdf Next, go to the document number Pittsburgh 107-5070, dated 12/2/63, but evidently of an interview dated 11/28/63. The first words in the document "Mrs. MARGARET RAY KAUFFMAN." So, on 11/28/63, Mrs. Hoover's daughter confirms that her memory also is that handwritten names of Oswald, Ruby, Rubenstein and words "Silver Slipper," or "Silver Bell" did appear on the back of the trailer advertisement. What is curious is how many people at that early date knew of Jack Ruby's connection to the Silver Spur club in Dallas? This is six days after the JFKA. Later, the woman's daughter, evidently in a second interview, recants her initial interview. But she cannot recant that she mentioned the name "Silver Slipper" or "Silver Bell" in her initial interview. BTW, the man in question, Fernandez, is interviewed by the FBI and he turns out to have been a prolific editor-founder-owner in Cuba, and owned many newspapers and magazines before the revolution, holds a "doctorate in political and economic science" and then was chased out by Castro. The FBI appears to have queried Fernandez closely about Castro-ties, but not ties to anti-Castro Cubans. That was the conventional thinking of the time. Also note that FBI agents called the US Attorney's office to see if they would prosecute Hoover and her daughter under section 1001, Title 18. Hmmm. Recanting under pressure? The US Attorney's Office declined to prosecute. In conclusion, I would say this strange event is interesting, not conclusive. However, this event is hardly key to understanding the JFKA. Sure would be nice to know more about Fernandez. He obviously was not just some schlub. It goes without saying that the CIA has long been active in financing publications in Latin America.

Agreed. The LBJ ducking photo...well, if the shots were to be aimed at JFK, then LBJ would not need to duck. Perhaps he could be expected to stand up in his car to get a better view.

I guess Caro would be puzzled too, and his books are great reading. Just deficient in the regards I mention. As I have said, I think the JFKA was executed by a small number of people, but there was a great deal of complicity in the LHO murder, and then a tsunami of complicity in the entire WC-media cover-up. LBJ had a role in the cover-up---but in the JFKA itself? Less likely, but who knows? I enjoyed the McCullough books too. But the modern Deep State was not there in Washington's time, and just getting started under Truman.

I think you might have to read "bit and pieces" rather than whole biographies. Biographies tend to either become hagiographies, or hatchet jobs, or personality profiles, but all sidestep a key point: The postwar ascendance of the globalist security state, and globalist macroeconomic policies. Forgotten today is the US demobilized after WWII, so much so the US entered the Korean War short of certain materials and weapons. It was considered normal to limit the military in peacetime. For a window into Nixon, read Ken Hughes, "Chasing Shadows." Don Fulsome has written about Nixon and the Mob. Another interesting window. Caro's biographies of LBJ are pretty good history, but again, the angle that there is a Deep State with global ambitions, on behalf of multinationals, is just absent. The JFKA is not treated as a conspiracy. Caro's book on Vietnam is yet to be published, and Caro is entering the ninth inning of his life.... What is remarkable is how much the globalist perspective, and the attendant panopticon surveillance state has triumphed, in academia and media (and books you read). Today, it is considered normal for left- or right-wing news outlets to hire former CIA and intel guys as newspeople. The fine points of occupying Syria are debated. Some news outlets appear eager to become part of the surveillance state. Good luck and let us know if you come across some good reads. Again, I really recommend "Trade Ware are Class Wars" by Michael Pettis for a deeply insightful perspective on "free" trade, which has defined US policy since the 1960s. "JFK vs. Dulles" by Greg Poulgrain is essential also. But a whole presidential biography, which includes the "Deep State" perspective....not sure that animal exists yet. But hey, you are retired and smart. You could write such a biography.

The doctors at Parkland also. Curiously, the even the Bethesda autopsy team. Humes, for example, did not believe CE 399 could have struck Connally's wrist.

Your post would be enlivened by photographs.

Great article on Rose Cheramie. Her story has been pretty much verified, and it is chilling, remarkable. Boy, what a commentary. A troubled woman, very down on her luck, afflicted by drugs, easy for her to just keep quiet...but she tells the truth. In contrast, the combined forces of the official US security establishment, from the FBI, to the CIA, the WC....well, a different story. As they say, never judge a book by the cover. I still sit on the fence on Nagell. All his materials and documents disappear. So tough to confirm he worked for the KGB, or much of what he says. As they say, trust but verify.

Dan R- That's right. One might exclude Castro as having an agenda. de Gaulle was the Swiss Cheese president. So many attempts were made on de Gaulle the assassins must have thought they can shoot at him but not hit anything. de Gaulle's lifetime record is tremendous.

David A- Thanks for your comment. Vincent Salandria is a real smartie, but I am excluding people from the JFKA research community.

Chuck S--Excellent, thank you. Yes, the number of reasonable, clued-in people who immediately suspected the CIA, such as RFK, is rather shocking.

I am interested in compiling a list of well-connected US figures, or on-the-scene professionals (Secret Service, technicians at the autopsy) who thought WC fell down on the job, but not researchers and journalists, though the latter two categories are important. Evidently, Vincent P. has compiled such a list.

Gaddafi, well....not sure he was clued in on the JFKA.

Ron B. Thanks for your comment. It may be that the Morales, Harvey, Dulles and Angleton believed the WC was "horse dooky," but did they ever say so? Angleton made the "wilderness of mirrors" comment, but that is vague. I have always had reservations about Nagel. Trust but verify as they say. BTW, you have heaped calumny on the useful "horse dooky," an excellent fertilizer, by comparing it to the WC.

James D.-- Thanks. I will take a look.

Tony K: As far as I can tell, the Z-film entirely vindicates Connally. 1. JFK puts his hands toward his throat ~224 2. Then Connally turns to his right to look at JFK, makes a 180-degree turn in his seat. JFK has slumped to the left, towards Jackie. 3. Connally, unable to see JFK, starts turning around forward, then is struck ~296 4. Then the head shot(s) 313. That is 17 frames between Connally and the JFK being struck, in a camera that shoots at 18 frames per second. Obviously, the single-shot bolt-action rifle cannot answer to the situation. Great find on the Sibert quote. Far from being conspiracy nuts, right from the start, despite extraordinary pressure, there were many high and connected who doubted the WC. You are right, Sibert falls into this category.

Tony K-- Thanks for reading and your comment. On Sibert and O'Neill, do you have a cite? They said something was fishy, and they thought JFK's head showed signs of surgery prior to arriving in the Bethesda, although they are not surgeons. What is curious is the number of very close witnesses who say three separate shots hit JFK, Connally, JFK...and then say LHO did it alone. The three SS men in the follow car to the JFK limo all say that. But, that does not add up. A single shot bolt-action rifle cannot accomplish that, in the time allowed.

Chris B- Thanks for reading and your response. Ralph Yarborough is a good one. You have a cite on Nixon? E. Howard Hunt? I know of his late-life confession, but that has been sketchy. I am less interested in a Larry King type. He is well-connected (was), but not to the JFKA in particular. Of course, Cuban intelligence did their own investigation, and they say it was Hemininio Garcia and Eladio Del Valle.

Hello Everyone: I am thinking of a very simple idea, that I hope someone did before. If not, I ask help in compiling this list. It is a simple list, possibly with just brief paragraph each, of the "high" or "connected" people, such as Robert Kennedy, Hale Boggs, Richard Russell, Sherman Cooper, even LBJ, John Connally and his wife, David Atlee Phillips, and so on, who did not really believe the conclusions of the WC. I guess we could add Robert Blakely, as he concluded there had been a conspiracy in the JFKA. I heard that Curtis E. LeMay called the JFKA "a CIA job." George Burkley, JFK's doctor. The three Secret Service men in the follow car all said three separate bullets struck JFK, then Connally, then JFK, and said so in a Sixth Floor Museum taped session. Various people at the JFK autopsy. Anyway, that's it. I have seen so many names over the years, but I never cataloged the names, and I wonder if anyone else has.

I think that's right. I am puzzled why so much time is spent on this issue. I think the driver exhibited a normal human reaction. I happen to think there were at least two gunmen in Dealey Plaza that day.