Tony Krome

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

But a big one for me is in answer to the question, how did the plotters get Oswald to take a job at the right place at the right time for the shooting?

You mean who asked Ruth Paine to phone Truly?

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

provocateur

Thats what Garrison described him as. Based on some of his two-faced antics in NO, I'd say he's close to the mark.

2 hours ago, Ron Ege said:

And that was Jack Dougherty, correct? 

If so, do you see him playing any role, that day?

Here is a quote from Truly;

"Both back elevators were up at the top, which was strange, I guess, since everyone should have been out to lunch"

In other words, by default, Truly would consider Dougherty's claim of working during the lunch break was strange.

But in the minutes before and after the assassination, Dougherty is by the elevators on the 6th & 5th floors.

To be clear, I have no shots fired from the TSBD. Any "roles" played by some employees of the building, like standing at Port Arms with a rifle in full view from the street, or poking a barrel from a window, was played out for the framing of Oswald.

I do not have "strangers" in the building. The person confronted by Baker, likely on the 4th floor, was a worker known to Truly, and was possibly the same person Rowland saw from the street. I don't believe that person is Dougherty, but I believe Dougherty had eyes on this person, as well as eyes on Jarman and Co on the 5th floor.

58 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

An interesting quote from Rose.

There was at least one honest cop in the theatre, well sort of, his statement reads that he saw Oswald's and McDonald's hands 'on" the gun, but couldn't say for sure which way the gun was pointed. If Oswald had his hand on the grip and finger on the trigger, it would be obvious to that cop which way the gun was pointed, right?

You'd think if a suspected "cop killer" pulled a gun on officers, the suspect would have his body weight doubled within 15 seconds. However, if a gun was being forced into Oswald's hands, the surrounding officers obviously held fire.

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

On LHO going home to get his gun

A homicide detective for only three years. Rose would later gain renown as a skilled interrogator. Blocking out the hubbub, he turned his attention to the hostile suspect.

“I don’t own a gun,” the man said. “I didn’t have that gun. They planted that on me when they arrested me.”

https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/1998/november/jfk-special-report-the-cop-and-the-killer/

Baker has a good idea which floor he's on

We know Sawyer rode the passenger elevator to the 4th floor and looked around before returning to the 1st floor

Mr. BAKER - The next thing that I noticed was Inspector Sawyer, he was on one of those floors there, he is a police inspector.
Mr. DULLES - City of Dallas Police?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. And he was on, I really didn't notice which floor he was on, but that is the first thing I saw as we descended how this freight elevator, you know, it has got these picket boards in front of it and it has got it open so far, and it seemed to me like we stopped for a moment and I spoke to him and I told him that I had been to the roof, and there wasn't anything on the roof that would indicate anybody being up there, and then we started on down.
Mr. BELIN - Did you stay on the elevator while you spoke to him?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember what floor it was that you spoke to him on or how many floors down that you went from the top before you saw him?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir; not at that time. It seemed to me like it was on either the third or the fourth floor.

As we all know, Baker, in his affidavit, stated he saw a white man moving away from the 3rd or 4th floor stairway. The white man was wearing a light brown jacket. In his testimony, he mentions that the man wearing the light brown jacket, was also wearing a white shirt;

Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.

Rowland describes a similarly clothed man holding a rifle at Port Arms on the 6th floor;

Mr. SPECTER - What, if anything, did you observe as to the clothes he was wearing? 
Mr. ROWLAND - He had on a light shirt, a very light-colored shirt, white or a light blue or a color such as that. This was open at the collar. I think it was unbuttoned about halfway, and then he had a regular T-shirt, a polo shirt under this, at least this is what it appeared to be.

She (Rowland's wife) said, "What did he look like," and I told her just that--I gave her more or less a brief description of what he looked like, open collared shirt, light-colored shirt, and he had a rifle

Both Baker & Rowland appear to be describing a light collared shirt/jacket over a light regular T-Shirt on both men.

When Truly and Baker arrived at the 1st floor freight elevators, Truly thought both elevators were level at the 5th floor. They then took to the stairs. When they arrived at the 5th floor, Truly could see the east elevator through the now empty west elevator shaft. The west elevator had moved while they were in the stairwell. 

If Rowland and Baker saw the same man, it's possible that the man descended the stairs from the 6th floor to the 5th floor, took the west elevator to the 4th floor, and then appeared to be walking away from the stairwell when Baker saw him.

The above scenario is only possible if the west elevator had continued down, otherwise Truly would have noticed the west elevator still in place on the 4th floor.

There was one guy that admitted he was on the 5th floor right by the elevators when the assassination took place. Could this guy have taken Roland's man to the 4th floor then continued down? This guy should have been enjoying his lunch break, but he decided that going back to work early and hanging around elevators was more important.

On 9/29/2022 at 11:07 PM, Ron Ege said:

Even if, as you suspect, Baker took a quick look at the fire escape before entering the TSBD

Check Baker's testimony. His first thought was that he suspected the shots came from the Dal-Tex building or the TSBD.

It makes perfect sense that after dismounting his bike, he ran to a position between both buildings;

Mr. BAKER - Well, to me, it sounded high and I immediately kind of looked up, and I had a feeling that it came from the building, either right in front of me or of the one across to the right of it.
Mr. BELIN - What would the building right in front of you be?
Mr. BAKER - It would be this Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN - That would be the building located on what corner of Houston and Elm?
Mr. BAKER - That would be the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN - All right. And you thought it was either from that building or the building located where?
Mr. BAKER - On the northeast corner.

He checks the rooftops, the fire escape, then returns to enter the front doors of the TSBD after Frazier and Molina have moved on.

42 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

2. The location of the only known shooter in Dealey Plaza

At least you leave room for an unknown shooter. Your starting to come round.

13 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

But that apparently doesn't matter, because Spector said it didn't matter.

Who came up with the SBT? Was it a forensic ballistic expert or a lawyer?

7 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Whoever blew JFK's head apart just 12 inches from his wife while she is looking right at him and spewing his blood and brain matter upon her face and body was a person no less sick than a rabid animal.

A Frankenstein's monster.

On the Sunday, we saw another example of this type of gutless action. Shooting an unarmed and handcuffed man in the belly, and putting others at great risk.

3 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

powerful people

You describe the people that arranged snipers to ambush an unarmed man sitting with his wife as powerful? 

46 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Holmes was talking out of his butt. His report--which he failed to create till weeks after the assassination--said Oswald told him he was upstairs when the shots were fired and that he came down to see what all the commotion was all about. Bugliosi pretended that this weeks later report proved Oswald had admitted being upstairs when the shots were fired. Uhh, no...

It seems to me that Holmes spent the bulk of his time with Oswald asking about P.O. Boxes, etc. He wasn't tasked with verifying or disproving Oswald's location at the time of the shooting--that was Fritz's job. When later asked about the details of what Oswald said, moreover, he didn't want to admit he didn't remember what Oswald said beyond his responses regarding the P.O. Boxes. So he made stuff up... and said what he thought others had told him Oswald said. 

Regardless, that's what he told the WC, and it just so happens to match what Campbell reportedly said. There was no way a reporter knew that a "storage room" existed on the first floor, it had to come from Campbell as indicated.

As far as coming "downstairs", there is the possibility that Oswald left the Domino Room right after he saw Jarman, and took the rear stairs to the 2nd floor. The "commotion" may have been heard from the 2nd floor.

Molina was right by Frazier and he did not see a white helmeted police officer push past his position either. I personally think that Darnell shows Baker running to the corner to check on the fire escape, then he later backtracked.

On 9/26/2022 at 1:24 PM, Tony Krome said:

The final edition (evening of the 22nd) of The Dallas Times Herald has Campbell stating Oswald was seen on the "ground floor" in a "small storage room" immediately after the shooting. The storage room is right by the front doors. The next day. the Dallas Morning News has an "Officer, gun drawn" confronting Oswald in a "storage room". 

The earliest newspaper reports match what Harry Holmes heard from Oswald himself;

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.
Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?
Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.
Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

On 4/5/2021 at 6:01 AM, Tony Krome said:

Its an unmistakable sound .... and the very first sound they should have heard

I finally found a reference to this "cracking" sound. Ex-Ranger Charles Brehm in No More Silence describes a single "wild shot" that passed over his head. "you know when a bullet passes over you, the cracking sound it makes, and that bullet had an absolute crack to it"

Moving on ...

At the time Oswald was watching Jarman, circa 12:25, the motorcade was due in the Plaza. It was reported that Oswald used the word "commotion" in Fritz's office, and that prompted Oswald to move "downstairs" towards that commotion, and that he was confronted by his "superintendent" and a "police officer".

The final edition (evening of the 22nd) of The Dallas Times Herald has Campbell stating Oswald was seen on the "ground floor" in a "small storage room" immediately after the shooting. The storage room is right by the front doors. The next day. the Dallas Morning News has an "Officer, gun drawn" confronting Oswald in a "storage room". 

Does this indicate that Oswald moved from the Domino Room to the 2nd floor, then went "downstairs" to be confronted by Baker?

Frazier does not have Baker hurrying past his position. Frazier stated that he remained where he was, and did not move to avoid attention to himself. With that mindset, of course he would recall the law racing to and past his position.

Frazier remained at his position for "minutes" before moving inside. He was in the basement by 12:35 where he checked his watch which indicated he has but 10 minutes left to eat his lunch before resuming work at 12:45.

Oswald could be right by the front doors watching part of the parade and the commotion before Baker entered.

27 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Well, here's a fresh thought. Perhaps Oswald had been warned that something was gonna happen, and was trying to stop it.

At least we know Oswald was vigilant as to who was accessing the rear loading dock door in the minutes before the motorcade passed. 

47 minutes ago, Ron Ege said:

Gil Jesus did a nice job (Evidence that Oswald was on the first floor), pinpointing LHO's whereabouts, just prior to the assassination.

Was Lee Harvey Oswald Really Guilty (gil-jesus.com)

And didn't LHO even say that he saw two Negroes when he was in/near Domino room, one of whose names he didn't know and whose admissions as to where they were at the time, tracked with what Oswald said?

Cool assassin, that Ozzie.  Waits until nearly the last minute before he skedaddles up to the sixth floor - which had to be much after witnesses would eventually report seeing someone in the "sniper's lair".  Meanwhile, we have Gil's multiple witnesses placing him on the first floor.

I put this thread up to see if the Oswald lynch Mob could explain how Oswald knew there was no-one in the Domino Room that could challenge his alibi.

So far nothing from that quarter.

And yes, I mentioned Jarman, he was one of the persons Oswald said he saw from the Domino Room.

During Oswald's first interview, the obvious questions were asked, like where were you?, What were you doing? No need to repeat here what was reported.

During the lunch period (12:00 to 12:45) there was a good chance that someone was sitting in the 1st floor lunchroom that wasn't interested in being outside waiting for the motorcade that could destroy Oswald's claims.

Dougherty was one such person. He was in the Domino Room, wasn't interested in the motorcade, and would have been there if he hadn't decided to go back to work early.

Then we have Oswald claiming to see Jarman at the time Jarman himself said he was entering the rear door in the minutes before the motorcade.

20 minutes ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

The WC did not take any sworn statements from the pigeons.

Last time I was in Ballarat, I visited Aradale, been there?

2 hours ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

Oswald fired his shot-1 between say pseudo Z101-Z113 -- from his sniper nest.

Care to explain why a guy 10 feet from the business end of a firing rifle stated to the Warren Commission that he "did not pay any attention to it" ? 

43 minutes ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

brain reacts (startle) at say Z121 -- brain reacts (duck) at say Z125.

Lets go to the alleged source of the shots. 3 guys hanging out windows about 10 feet under the Sniper's Nest. You speak of reaction. After the 3rd shot, one of the 3 guys said to the others along the lines of, I don't think it was a backfire, it was somebody shooting at the president. Another one of the guys told the WC, "The first shot, I really did not pay any attention to it." No "startle" or "reaction" there. So my question is, where do you believe the shot came from that hit the signal arm?

1 hour ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

Shot-1 at pseudo Z103-113 that hit the signal arm was not difficult -- anyone could have dunnit.

Do you think that bullet striking the signal arm created a loud cracking metallic sound? Before you answer, stand under any type of metal infrastructure, and ask a friend to fire a round into it. Take note of what you heard, then look through the hundreds of witness statements for such a report.

6 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Wonderful logic there.

It is actually, you just haven't thought it through

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Obviously not. Because if Oswald had said to Fritz (et al) that he was outside on the steps at the time of the shooting, that key information would most certainly have shown up in the official reports of multiple people who were present to hear Oswald's statements during the interrogations (e.g., the reports of Fritz, Bookhout, Hosty, Kelley, and Holmes).

Instead, we have this:

"I [Captain Fritz] asked him [LHO] what part of the building he was in at the time the President was shot, and he said that he was having his lunch about that time on the first floor." [Warren Report; Page 600]

And this:

"Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building." [Hosty/Bookhout 11/22/63 joint report; WCR, Page 613]

 

Thanks for that Dave, for me, that proves that Oswald was not the shooter. 

32 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

The fact that he spoke Russian so well when he met Marina is revealing.

First Google hit;

The Foreign Service Institute of the United States has determined that it takes about 1100 hours of study to reach fluency in Russian. If you're willing to study 3 hours every day, it could take you a year to reach that level.