Tony Krome

Cluey sort of a chap

On 11/22/2023 at 1:20 PM, Greg Doudna said:

Ruth Paine

Was it you that mentioned you had met her? Would you be tempted to ask her if she was aware that Peggie Ryder lived a few doors away, and that the Randle phone number had belonged to the house next to hers? Be great if we could get those matters cleared up.

I hear Dave is deleting his Blog and moving to Alaska.

Best answered with another question. Why would the gunman feel so comfortable walking up to within 10 feet of Callaway? Ample opportunity to cross Patton beforehand.

1 minute ago, Alan Ford said:

Not meant as a joke!

Yes, I realise Pat unintentionally described them as Oswald's girls.

Back to the strangers. If, as you proffered, the FBI told TSBD staff that they knew about the strange men inside the building, that not to worry about them, does that indicate that they were genuinely checking the security of the building, as Spaulding suspected? 

Just now, Alan Ford said:

Not Mr. Oswald's girls-------------Mr. Jones'.

haha

2 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

The whole thing sounds a bit wacky. Oswald with his girls at the TSBD? Never happened.

Actually, that's a good point, effectively those 2 girls would then be "strangers" to many of the TSBD staff.

2 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

Not up to me, Mr. Krome-----------he says "not inside" in response to a question about his office.

As for what he told FBI, I'd be very slow to equate it with what FBI tell us about what he told FBI!

All good. The implications are that the FBI would have had to change the statements of TSBD staff that would have seen these strangers walking around the building. Spaulding suggested the said men were likely checking around the building before the arrival of the motorcade. If these men were inside the building, I'd imagine, to equate his description of them, he would have seen them casually checking windows etc on the 4th floor where Spaulding worked. I believe there were quite a few staff on that floor.

9 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

I think his wording is a little ambiguous, Mr. Krome, but tending IMO to inside the building. He says they saw these men "around the building". His "not inside" is in specific answer to the question whether they had come to his office a day or two before. I think this means he saw them on his floor that morning, but didn't see them (or hear about them) coming into his office at any point.

Up to you, but I don't recall anyone else mention unknown multiple suited men walking around inside the building before the assassination. Plus I believe he told the FBI no strangers that morning.

For some reason, the interviewer didn't ask him about the amount and spread of shots he heard. Frustrating.

On 11/15/2023 at 10:44 PM, Alan Ford said:

On the morning of 11/22, Mr. Jones says he saw unfamiliar men in the building

You may need to edit that line. At the 35min mark, he explains that he saw the men around the building, and went on to say, "not inside" before the interviewer interrupted him. So there were outside the building.

Also, no connection to Hall across the road, the elevator time is too early

42min mark. Spaulding told authorities that afternoon at the TSBD, that it may well have been Oswald in the elevator that morning. Said to interviewer, that it turned out it was.

I guess a tall BOX was outside the narrative.

41min mark. Spaulding believes it was Oswald in the elevator that morning, and that he was carrying a BOX so TALL that Spaulding believed later, it could have contained a rifle.

40min mark, Spaulding told the authorities at the TSBD during his interview that afternoon, that he saw a person on the elevator, that morning, THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW. It was only later, after seeing a photo of Oswald, that he believed it was Oswald in that elevator with his daughters, whom Spaulding was taking upstairs at the time, approx 8:30am.

So 30mins after Oswald began work.

34min mark, days before his 1996 interview, Spaulding talked to O. V. Campbell, and suggested to the interviewer that it could have been Campbell or Truly that identified Oswald leaving the building.

This matches the earliest Campbell newspaper reports post assassination

30min mark, Spaulding's co-worker Herb Junker, said before the shooting to him, that the TSBD would be a perfect place to shoot Kennedy. Herb Junker had planned for a road trip that afternoon, and LOADED HIS STATION WAGON after the shooting, and took off for Louisiana. Authorities immediatley put up a ROAD BLOCK for Herb Junker but Junker later said he saw no road block.

Maybe Spaulding mentioned in his interview at the TSBD that afternoon that Junker told him about shooting from the TSBD. The above was probably all legit, but interesting. 

28min mark, Spaulding was hanging around the TSBD after the shooting, was with Wes Wise, someone ran up to them with part of a skull in a shoebox, handed it to plain clothes suited man, like "secret service" or someone like that, a few minutes after that, he could hear radio saying that JFK was on the way to hospital, that he was still alive, but Spaulding after seeing skull knew he couldn't be alive, one hour later Spaulding heard JFK was announcement he was dead.

3 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

I’ll reserve judgement until I get a chance to check for myself, but I think it’s worth confirming this sort of thing. 

Let me break Myer's endnotes down;

[117] The R.L. Polk Company was contacted regarding canvasing for the 1964 Dallas City Directory. They stated that “those types of records/information are not available anywhere. Myer does not mention "Greater" here. The 1964 Dallas Directory canvassing months were available, and they were December 1963 to mid-March 1964.

With the company being sold a few times over the last 15 years, this type of information was not saved.” I subsequently searched the Dallas Morning Newsnewspaper archives for two days looking for articles or ‘want ads’ relating to canvasing by the R.L. Polk Company during the years 1905-65 with an emphasis on the period 1962-1965. Myer, with his "emphasis", has singled out 4 editions, 1962, 1963, 1964 & 1965. Myer also states that he is searching for canvassing information for POLK Directories in general.

I was able to determine the following: The listings for R.L. Polk & Company’s Greater Dallas City Directory were compiled between late September and mid-December the year prior to publication. No evidence presented here about the type of material Myer discovered to determine these "Greater Dallas City Directory" canvassing months. If Myer was thorough in his investigation, he would have found that the 1963 Dallas Directory canvassing months included late September, October, November & December of 1962. (note how different these months are compared to the 1964 Dallas Directory)

Persons were hired to canvas residential areas door-to-door. Two attempts were made to contact residents and then a card was left to be filled out and mailed back. The directory was then published and distributed about 7 months later. Consequently, the Greater Dallas 1964 directory listings were gathered in September-December of 1963 and published in early June, 1964. The 1964 "Greater" Dallas Directory was issued in May.

By "emphasising" and grouping 1962, 1963, 1964 & 1965 together, the reader comes away thinking that Dallas Directories, generally, were canvassed in the months of September, October, November & December. However, that was not true for the 1964 Dallas Directory, and for whatever reason, Myer does not reveal this.

Worthy of note is that Myer's unsourced "Greater" canvassing months are basically the same as the !963 Dallas Directory canvassing months. Were the 1963 Dallas Directory canvassing months the source of Myer's DMN investigation?

25 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Questions about the Holan family’s residency arose almost immediately when it was discovered that the 1964 Dallas City Directory (which covered the period of the assassination) 

The JUNE delivered 1964 Dallas Directory DID NOT cover the assassination period.

3 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

It’s actually the right thread. Sorry for not clarifying I was falling asleep. Doris Holan’s address in the ‘64 city directory is listed as 113.5 S. Patton St.; and Dale Myers uses that as evidence that the family moved from 409 E 10th prior to the Tippit murder: 

The listings for R.L. Polk & Company’s Greater Dallas City Directory were compiled between late September and mid-December the year prior to publication. Persons were hired to canvas residential areas door-to-door. Two attempts were made to contact residents and then a card was left to be filled out and mailed back. The directory was then published and distributed about 7 months later. Consequently, the Greater Dallas 1964 directory listings were gathered in September-December of 1963 and published in early June, 1964.

If Myers is correct that the canvassing started in September, it doesn’t really prove anything since most people plan to move months in advance - and we have no idea when the Holans were actually canvassed anyway. 

If the canvassing occurred only or even just primarily in December though, it bumps up the low but non-zero probability of a post-assassination move down the street.

The only actual evidence Myers has is a letter addressed to Patton St. around Christmas time, so the Holans moved down the street by mid-late December.

However, the exact date of the move has not been established. The only “evidence” of a pre-assassination move is the 58-year old highly questionable memory of Doris Holan’s son, reported in an unreleased 2021 interview by Myers.

Basically, given the current evidence, there is a roughly 3-4 week window where the Holans could have moved to Patton and still lived on 10th St. on Nov. 22nd. 3-4 weeks out of several months is not the best odds, but it’s worth pointing out at least, IMO. 

The 1964 Dallas Directory canvassing was initiated in DECEMBER 1963, and was completed in mid-MARCH 1964. It was delivered to customers in JUNE 1964. I'm not sure about the "Greater Dallas Directory" but there seems to be a MAY 1964 edition.

Having said that, Myers refers to the edition that was delivered in JUNE, so that indicates that it may not be the MAY Greater Dallas edition he was referring to.

In other words, present the Greater Dallas canvassing months, and read from the Dallas Directory that was delivered in June.

42 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Question, do you know if Dallas also did their city directory canvassing in December? 

Wrong thread, can you add this to the Randle thread

On 9/8/2023 at 3:53 AM, Greg Doudna said:

Craford

I think more focus should be on this guy, and not just 10th & Patton.

21 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I take it, then, that Dial may have been living at that address with his wife.

But what about the car crash article? Does it even mention Dial? (I can't tell if what you posted is the whole article. It seems to be, but not sure.)

 

Yes, that's the whole article. As I've stated, I can't find anything that indicates an enquiry at 2434 West 5th, which is most peculiar, as it affords a prime view of the Randle corner at a time when most people are hustling about, leaving home for work. Just like Wesley was. Even the most fanatical LNers would agree that a knock on that door would have been a most logical investigative procedure. I mean, they were alleging the weapon that was used to kill the President was walking past what is Peggie's corner. 

Add to that, the other mysterious house, 2511 West 5th, which it turns out had the Randle phone number, the house further up West 5th that had the guy that played for Ruby, and you start to wonder what else is going to be uncovered on West 5th.

Well, I have more, but I'm saving that for later.

10 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Tony,

Just wondering why you mentioned only Peggie living at that address and not Dial. Were they divorced at the time?

 

Because I'm sticking to facts I know. I know Peggie ended up at Harvard, and I know Dial indicated that he spoke to his wife the weekend of the assassination. 

2 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

"The Guns of Dealey Plaza", by John S. Craig (Fair Play, Issue #11, July-August 1996:

hmm, first thing that comes to mind is Baker and his "third or fourth floor". But in reading the above where the author states, "Ellsworth claims he found the sniper's nest", that's not entirely correct, so the translation may be question.

29 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Suppose one of the shooters used an Argentine Mauser. That would explain a lot (Dial Ryder's story, Mauser being first announced). But why would the FBI want to hide that fact and instead go with the Carcano as the weapon? And how could they decide upon doing that so quickly?

 

As I said years ago, I wish I could again find where Ruby referred to the hours after the assassination as a "rifle problem" or something similar.