Tony Krome

59 minutes ago, Paul Rigby said:

the pathologist

Did they name him?

18 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

It doesn’t matter to me when the phone call was. Turner says the tip was of a sport shop in Irving and “I checked the crisscross and phone book and found there was an Irving Sports Shop at 221 East Irving Boulevard” and “Found a man that run it, Woody Greener…” I don’t know whether the “crisscross” gave business owners’ names. If it did then he could have gotten Greener’s name and looked up his home number and called him Sun Nov 24, OK. 

Yes, he found Greener's number;

The tip described by Turner was not about a mount, it was about having an "Oswald" "rifle sighted", so I'd expect he would not have delayed calling Greener, especially with his phone number right in front of him. He was asked to investigate, and that's what he did.

38 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

He found the phone number of the Irving Sport Shop and called it and talked to Greener. That sounds to me like that call happened Tue Nov 26, since that is when Greener was in the shop.

What Turner says is that he found Irving Sports, then Belin asks "What did you do?", Turner replies,"Found a man that owned it, Woody Greener"

That statement is consistant with directing his phone call to Greener's personal home phone number. Turner stated he called Greener that day (Sunday) or the next day (Monday), He didn't say two days later.

ATTN Tom Scully

Thanks for looking regarding the marriage date, but Dial Ryder himself reveals in the very first part of his testimony, that he has been married to Peggie for FIVE years. This is 5 years before March 1964.

39 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Tony I do not immediately recall a doc or reference to Greener being informed by DPD that early, on Nov 24 or 25, of a report of the rifle having been sighted in his shop. What is your reference or link on that? 

pp224 https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pdf/WH7_Turner.pdf

49 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

I agree that’s surprising but that’s what happened, according to Greener’s testimony. 

Not only surprising, but unbelievable. Let me run this past you;

F. M. Turner, on Sunday 24th Nov is handed information at the Police Station regarding a tip that Oswald had his rifle sighted over at Irving. He checks the phone book, finds Irving Sports, discovers Greener runs the show, and calls him, either the same day or the next. Greener answers, Turner explains the tip, and Greener says yeah, "they" have seen the photos of Oswald in the papers, and "neither" of them recall doing any work for the man in the shop. Greener said he would check the records.

We are talking Sunday 24th or Monday 25th for the Turner call. Of course Turner would be prompt about such a tip, it was fairly big case this JFK hit.

So what does Greener do on Monday the 25th Nov? He leaves town of course and ends up over in East Texas.

What you think so far?

13 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

See pp. 3-6 of my Sport Shop paper for what I make of that: https://www.scrollery.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Irving-Sport-Shop-109-pdf.pdf.

What you cite has nothing to do with reporter Schmidt saying anything untrue to Greener, or anything amiss with FBI agent Horton's reporting either. It is Greener's own lack of knowledge that Greener is expressing--Greener's lack of knowledge that FBI Horton had talked to Ryder on Mon Nov 25, before the newspaper article of Nov 28 and the Schmidt to Greener phone call on the morning of Nov 29. Ryder apparently never told his boss, Greener, of that Mon Nov 25 FBI visit (unless he did and Greener forgot). 

I can see your point, except I'd imagine Greener, after reading the Nov 28th newspaper report, that the first thing he would have done is contacted his employee, Ryder, for all the juice. That would have been the evening of Nov 28th, the same time when CBS was interviewing Ryder.

The Hunter Schmidt call was the next day, 29th Nov. It does stretch the imagination that Ryder did not disclose to Greener about an interview with the FBI at Greener's own shop on the Monday 25th Nov. A closed shop that Ryder had to open up on his day off. 

And you suggest that Greener forgot? cmon

3 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Yes. The defenders of the SBT make out that its being in the right is consistent with a passage from the back wound to throat wound. But I'm fairly certain a passage from the middle of the throat along the right side of the trachea leads further from the spine than their presumed entrance location. 

So we have a wound in the centre of JFK's neck and ragged laceration inside on JFK's right. Thanks.

14 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Owner Greener read the Schmidt story in the newspaper on Thanksgiving day, that was when he first learned of it, asked Ryder what was going on, Ryder lied, denied to Greener he was the reporter's source, because he was in trouble with his boss. That's how I reconstruct it.

Here's something more related to the "credible" Hunter Schmidt;

Greener stated that he was contacted by a reporter that he suspected was the same reporter that spoke to Ryder and published the Nov 28th story.

Hunter Schmidt confirms he phoned Greener on Nov 29th.

Now this is where it gets interesting, Greener said that the reporter told him that he spoke to Ryder BEFORE Ryder spoke with the FBI.

So I got to thinking. Horton (FBI) has his interview with Ryder showing as Nov 25th. Now, for some reason, Horton states he does not take the "Oswald" repair tag into evidence. He basically says to Ryder, you keep it. If Horton had of received the tag on that Monday, he would have had to officially date the receivership of that evidence.

What do you make of that?

5 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

2511 is bad enough, and it’s pretty damn bad. According to the official record - or at least what’s available online - no one ever even checked if the f*****g door was unlocked. 

What if the FBI did in fact investigate 2511, and found that the Randle phone number had been in use there, before the Randles moved to 2439. Is this the same as not disclosing 2434 as being tied to Dial Ryder?

3 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Yes. It excludes the idea of a non-updated drivers’ license as an explanation for why Peggie’s address in that December news article is given as her parents’ address, and not Dial’s address.

In the absence of better information, it looks like either (a) some time between Nov 23 or Nov 28 and mid-December, Peggie left living with Dial and moved to her parents home, or (b) some mistake in the newspapers end of unknown mechanism.

I doubt it means Dial was living there too in December. But if his wife was there it would not be surprising if he was there a lot even if not living there.

Thanks, we are getting closer, hopefully we can nail this.

6 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

"small ragged laceration of the trachea on the anterior lateral right side.”

Just so readers can determine which side is the right, was Perry referring to JFK's right?

7 minutes ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

2503

I have that as vacant at the time of the assassination. It had been previously put up for sale in October 1959.

7 minutes ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

In this strange world of the JFKA a Ruby connection is always there.

After 60 years we are not even close to the speed of light... but it sure feels like getting lost in the 4-th dimension...

We gonna need a bigger map! haha

5 hours ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

Excellent idea with the map! If we keep that updated, it will help.

1. Can we note on there at 2511, that in 1961, it had the Randle phone number.

2. At 2435, in April 1960, Bruce W. Vickes was there, and worked at the Dallas Times Herald

4 hours ago, Max Good said:

Hi Tony.  Where did you find this schematic?

https://news.bellflight.com/en-US/201556-uncovering-bell-s-history-with-high-speed-vertical-take-off-and-landing-innovation

Goldstrich;

I saw the wound in the lower part of his neck. I looked in the neck wound and saw the cartilage of the trachea on the back side through the hole. I do not remember whether instruments had [yet] been used to expand the wound. I am clear, however, that I saw the posterior aspect of the trachea.

It appears from the above that he didn't observe an injury to the posterior aspect of the trachea.

On 11/25/2023 at 9:29 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Thanks Tony, if its an Argentine Mauser, that is really interesting.

This is from a CBS interview with Dial Ryder on the 28th November 1963 (Thanksgiving Day) at the Irving Sports Shop

Dial Rtder reaches for an Argentine Mauser;

16 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

But it seems to me a recent marriage; lack of an updated driver's license on Peggy's part; an officer copying down Peggy's address as it appeared on her driver's license, and Peggy living with Dial at 2028 Harvard St. because she was married to him, is the simplest explanation.

Greg, while you were snoozing, I found that Dial Ryder graduated in 1957, and married Peggie Jones in 1959. Does that change your above assessment?

Read all you can find about Charles Greener, Dial Ryder, Hunter Schmidt and F. M. Turner (the cop). There are contradictions galore. I'm trying to figure out who is lying and who is telling the truth.

6 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Yes I do believe Ryder was not telling the truth in his denial of talking to Schmidt. Since he said that under oath to the Warren Commission, yes I believe that was perjury. I believe Schmidt was truthful and reported what Ryder told him.

Owner Greener read the Schmidt story in the newspaper on Thanksgiving day, that was when he first learned of it, asked Ryder what was going on, Ryder lied, denied to Greener he was the reporter's source, because he was in trouble with his boss. That's how I reconstruct it.

Interesting, you have Ryder lying to the WC, and his boss. Can you explain why you believe Ryder was in trouble with his boss?

4 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

No, I see my syntax isn't clear

I'm glad we cleared that up. But unfortunately, we are both guessing as to reporting procedure in regards to license information. We don't know if Peggie's license was renewed the week before, or a year ago.

4 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

I interpret the Dec 1963 newspaper account of the accident of Peggy as reporting her address as it appeared on her driver's license written up in the police report.

You have Peggie at the scene of the accident, or at the medical centre, stating to police, or ambulance crew, that her address is 2434 West 5th St, and that was translated to the Police report that the Newspaper reporter read, is that correct? In other words, if she was living at 2028 Harvard at the time of the accident, she stated she lived at a different address.

2 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Dial's account in his Warren Commission testimony is he answered the phone, said "no comment" and hung up, no mention of Peggy. The reporter, Hunter Schmidt, who had a witness to the phone call and comes across as credible, said Dial's wife answered the phone, handed it to Dial and Dial talked to him for maybe fifteen minutes. Dial's first claim was there was no phone call, then he told the Secret Service the reporter had misrepresented what he told the reporter, and then to the Warren Commission he said there was a call but he had said nothing more than "no comment" to the reporter.

I see you have used the word "credible" in relation to Schmidt. I gather then, that you have doubts that Ryder told the truth at the WC. Is that a form of perjury? People that tell untruths have something to hide.

45 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

I think Ruth's position on the Furniture Mart and Sport Shop Oswald sighting stories as they were reported was dismissal that they were true, because in her mind she knew Lee and Marina had not gone anywhere without her knowledge. So in her mind she knew they weren't true. That was what she said then to a reporter asking her (about the Furniture Mart sighting), and that is what she has said ever since to the present day, which was also the conclusion of the Warren Report which also dismissed that Oswald was ever in either of those places.

I see no reason to assume Ruth would know Dial Ryder's in-laws living several houses away, or if she did know who they were or had met them, might not necessarily know of the daughter's marriage to Dial, and unless she learned from some neighborhood gossip that Dial Ryder in the news about the Sport Shop was the husband of the daughter of the family down the street, she easily could never have known that either. And if she did, it wouldn't matter. Because Ruth from all accounts never considered either of those stories (Furniture Mart or Irving Sport Shop) as being true, based on what she thought she knew firsthand. 

And I do not think Dial Ryder himself was living in his wife's parents house. Instead he was living at 2028 Harvard St. (as reported by FBI 11/25 and Secret Service 12/1) and Peggy with him based on the Hunter Schmidt reporter's account of his phone call to Dial being answered sleepily early in the morning by his wife; Dial's reference to what he may have told or not told his wife the weekend of the assassination; and usually young married people live together. I interpret the Dec 1963 newspaper account of the accident of Peggy as reporting her address as it appeared on her driver's license written up in the police report. I assume the marriage to Dial must have been recent and Peggy had not yet updated her driver's license which still had her parents' address as hers.

 

Thanks. Your position is that Ruth may not have been aware that Dial Ryder was at all connected with the occupants of 2434 West 5th. If Ruth was personally asked tomorrow, you would expect her to say that she was unaware.

Do you think that the occupants of 2434 West 5th, may have been asked by their immediate neighbours about the breaking news? Linnie? Wesley? Ruth's baby sitters, the Ashby's? Or do you think the occupants remain silent, and were never asked?