Ron Ege

If the evidence showed that is what happened, beyond a reasonable doubt, I would agree. Unless someone can provide that, I am going to remain skeptical of that scenario. I believe there is enough reasonable doubt to preclude it. We'll agree to disagree.

Absolutely not. From military shooting and now pleasure shooting at the target range experience, my ears would be ringing, big time. Making the alleged shots in the time allotted, by a basically non-experienced shooter, with an antiquated difficult to operate bolt action rifle, along with a misaligned scope, at a moving target on a down grade is a nonstarter. One would have to be that well known "bridge buyer" to believe it. Anybody who would say that is well - making things up.

I do understand your point. I cannot know the exact role that Sandy has in mind for Oswald. That said, if as Sandy believes (I think he does anyway), that Oswald really did not own the rifle, then he did not order it. Now what are we left with? Heck, I don't know the plotters' plan either, but one would think that there would've been a back-up to a back-up plan, especially considering what appeared to be the plotter's foiled assassination attempts in two other cities. Was the plot so much "smoke and mirrors" that on the one hand, Ozzie had to painted as "natural born killer" or was he just originally supposed to be painted as just the "brains" behind the plot and not the trigger man - until what - by hook or by crook - something unforeseen transpired and the plot had to be "adjusted" - at the last minute? E.g., an alternative, to the alternative . . . . . IMHO, LHO was not so naive to agree to order a rifle that could be traced to him, that was to be used in an assassination of the POTUS - whatever BS story he was given. If one was indeed given, and LHO was not just blind-sided, on the surface, he'd have to see it as plausible and not one where he'd be implicated, charged, tried, convicted, and executed. Could the plotters, as Sandy has hypothesized, have originally had in mind to just implicate Oswald in a minor plot, and then "changed horses in the middle of the stream, thinking, "Hey, this new scenario will work out even better for us." Somehow, someway, no doubt, Oswald was expertly hoodwinked. Hence, his impromptu "escape plan" from the TSBD - inexplicable - as it appears to have been. When whatever person it comes to be that eventually solves the case - well, they''ll "be on Easy Street". 'Til then, "A mystery, wrapped in a riddle, inside an enigma".

Jonathan, I thought, reading Sandy's post, he proffered that the plotters may have been implicating specifically LHO, not as the shooter - but perhaps they had him playing another role - that of a "ringleader" or "intermediary". Either role or any other associated assassination one, even minor, would've certainly implicated him, and wasn't that all that was needed? Whether or not the MC found on the TSBD sixth floor was ordered/belonged to Oswald is, in a lot of minds, still a very questionable fact. Anyway, for discussion purposes, assuming the MC was Oswald's, even if he wasn't the shooter, and just say, maybe the "rifle procurer" - didn't the plotters still accomplish their implication of his involvement in the assassination? Also, if in fact, the TSBD' MC is actually the one that Oswald allegedly ordered, the chain of possession from between his alleged pickup - until the time it was "found" in the "sniper's lair" is more than questionable - even on a very good day. So, what if, just for discussion, Oswald did, indeed, order said MC. Could the scene not have gone like this? "Hey Lee, you've been doin' a pretty nice job for us. We need you to order this here rifle through the mail. It's just going to be used as a part of Senator Dodd's firearms mail order investigation. No worries." Subsequently, Oswald is then instructed to transfer the rifle to a person or persons unknown - ostensibly to be placed in an "evidence file", at such future time when Dodd's committee "had the goods" on the firearms dealers. Lee's little task is done, time for another assignment for the ersatz future assassin. Whether Oswald thought he was just a witting/innocent participant in what he thought was a "false flag" op (no real harm was to come to JFK) propounded to be, by his superiors - "in the best interest of U. S. national security" or he was completely oblivious and just going about his intelligence operative usual business - in the end - didn't matter. In either case - viola. Near sixty years later, for truth seekers, the "problem" remains: "Just how in the world, did Lee, that young son-of-gun, get his trusty rifle up to that "sniper's lair" that day"?

Sandy, I'm guessing that you consider LHO to not have been a defector/turncoat/traitor. In truth, IMHO, as a former marine and by the preponderance of everything we've learned about him, most likely an intelligence operative and perhaps even a FBi informant, he seemed to be a patriot, After nearly sixty years, I believe that he may be ruled out as a "crazed lone assassin." So, right - he was set up. The plotters did not have need to have him be on the sixth floor, in the "sniper's lair". Besides there being no credible evidence that he was ever that "crazed lone assassin" he was eventually pictured to be, Oswald was not unintelligent. LHO had to know that he was not capable of the shooting feat that is part of the official record - that which has never been exactly duplicated by the world's finest marksmen. And would the plotters really have chosen LHO as their "lone assassin" - he, whose record as a USMC rifleman mostly indicated that his questionable ability pretty much implied that he was a former member of "the gang who couldn't shoot straight"? As we are aware, one supposition has it, especially if we take into account, perhaps, young man naivete/over confidence (me thinks that he might have been a wee bit over his head, playing with the spy craft "big boys"), he was convinced to play a part in a "false flag operation". Of course, with assurances that he would be shielded and not be, in any manner, implicated. However, unsuspected by Oswald, the plotters had ensured that he would be connected to the assassination by virtue of all the "evidence" created by them alone and/or with LHO's innocent help over the years, that was eventually made part of his "legend" - As you so aptly put forth, what was important was that LHO be quickly determined to be part of a Russian and/or Cuban conspiracy to assassinate the POTUS with the concomitant reaction of the government and the American people - demanding immediate retribution against the "commies". Anyway, shortly subsequent to the shots, young Lee begins to understand - "Aw, crap - this "escapade" they told me about - didn't quite go as I thought. I need to high-tail it to my contact and find out my next step." For the plotters, whatever it was - something had gone wrong. For Lee and Tippit, everything, precipitously, started "going south".

Ben, As always, thanks for your caution, along with some clarity. 'Twas early in '67, skepticism (of the media in particular) became my everyday watchword - directly after I finished reading Josiah Thompon's SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS. At that moment, a quote that I had read somewhere, whilst I was still in high school - "Trust nothing you hear and half of everything you see" - hit home. Though I grant many consider that quote to be an exaggeration, considering that we've witnessed over the past six decades - well, I'd rather err on safe side. https://www.npr.org/2021/01/11/955548910/ex-capitol-police-chief-rebuf I haven't run into anyone yet, that considers NPR to be "extreme right wing". And we have this - similarly reported at other sites: Yes, Trump ‘Offered’ to Send the Guard to DC for Jan 6, and Yes, Democrats Rejected it Until Too late - American Defense News Eventually, as has with the JFK Assassination - truth will out.

David Lifton - " . . .LHO did not attend DLI, . . .: Agree. There is no evidence placing LHO there for, probably what, six months? I worked alongside of DIL graduates, and that was about average. And why would the intelligence agency (ONI, CIA?) grooming/training Oswald as a false defector want him to have an official paper trail of learning the language? Seems that would be a mighty big red flag for the Russians, adding to their already understandable suspicions of him. LHO's times "in the brig" would present the mentioned training opportunities, as well as the alleged short hospitalization for the "UTI/Clap". The "official reason" for the latter, IMHO, is fatuous, at best. Having spent two USAF tours in the Far East, Okinawa, '62-"63 and Viet Nam, "66-'67, troops afflicted with either one, did NOT spend a week in bed rest. Upon reporting to the dispensary for treatment, they were diagnosed, given antibiotics, and were directed to report back to duty. Routinely, their medical records were annotated, "in line of duty". Whether or not Oswald's tutor was the woman of Polish background (I'm inclined to go with David's "reveal") and/or another person or persons unknown, would it be out of the question for an intelligence agency to covertly recruit/pay said tutor(s)? How better to avert a paper trail. If memory serves, there has been much written as to how LHO could've saved enough of his USMC pay to have paid for his trip overseas. If he was being paid extra for his language ability, might that not have helped?

Ian and Joe, of course. Thank you. Whoever he was, astute assassin he must have been, since he was able to meticulously plan and execute his dastardly deed, bordering on which, if not an absolutely miraculous accomplishment, is pretty darn close - and which has never since been duplicated - he suddenly suffered a senior moment. Instead of exiting the sixth floor as fast as humanly possible so as to maximize the chance of a successful getaway, he decides to waste precious seconds "hiding" the rifle? "Hiding" the MC makes no sense. As you pointed out Joe, LHO was not unintelligent, and he would have known an hour or two delay in the authorities "finding" it would matter not, considering the alleged "records trail" that he left. The family aspect you mentioned is "icing on the cake". Someone planting the rifle beforehand, does make sense. Otherwise, we're left with the option that the MC was fired that day and then instead of "beating feet" immediately after the last shot, the assassin incredibly wasted precious time, taking time to "hide" it. If so, then me thinks that he must've also been an absolutely astounding gambler.

Noted!

Roger, nice summation. Keep it comin'.

Michael, thank you. Perhaps, seemingly to some, you are just a "bewildered voice in the wilderness" - but I would also guess many appreciate what "you bring to the table." I would think that there should always be room here, for dissenting voices.

As always with LHO - Joe Pesci, as David Ferrie, in JFK (1991): "It's a mystery, wrapped in a riddle, inside an enigma."

Some have hypothesized that the assassination was a false flag operation. If so, with or without Oswald's prior knowledge of same, his actions seem to make more sense - regardless of which conveyance he may have used to get the rooming house. Maybe I've missed it, but maybe those more learned here, would be able to positively state whether he used the cab or the bus? For me, the bus seems to be a non-starter. Cab less so, but still. Maybe I've also missed reading about the "after actions" of other "lone assassins", but which one, after assassinating a head of state by his own hand, and there being NO foreknowledge thereof by others, goes to a nearly empty movie theatre and sits serially, right next to - what was it, three different patrons, one a pregnant woman, and then gets up to find someone else to sit next to? Hm-m. I vote for LHO realizing he had been "hoodwinked/hornswoggled". If so, his post assassination actions seem to indicate a combination of preplanning/"making it up on the run" (the rooming house stop). Hence, to many, his alleged "escape plan" appears discombobulated. So. many of us are now left with feeling "bumfuzzled".

A given, of course; was just making a making a general point - no intention of intimating the "extreme left" was involved in the assassination.

Dulles was not alone. Richard Cohen: FDR’s moral failure on the Holocaust - The Washington Post

Pat, Thanks for adding the detail and the rationale. As usual, you are dead on. Ergo, the "family" did nothing of the sort. In your opinion, had RFK not been assassinated and elected president, do you think he would've "uncovered the coverup"?

Joe, great post! Surely, LHO's bio falls under the category of, "you just can't make this stuff up" - all by his lonesome, of course. Therefore, we are left with - and maybe Mr. Holes would put it differently - surreptitious orchestration.

So Finck is performing an autopsy on the POTUS/leader of the free world, and he is told to not perform his duty as he should because person X is "relaying the wishes of the family". Hm-m. The family, especially AG Robert Kennedy, the US CLEO, really does not want to know exactly how JFK died? Seems like post autopsy, Finck might have asked someone, "Who was that guy?" Guess that wouldn't have fit in with the "scheme" that directed autopsy participants to sign paperwork that they would not divulge events of that evening, lest they be court martialed. Nothing to see here folks.

Was Lee Harvey Oswald an Expert Marksman? : The JFK Assassination (22november1963.org.uk) And we have the above. IMHO, given all we know now about LHO, it hardly seems possible that he was not being "run" by some intelligence agency - rather than he just being some off the wall nutjob. Lee had quite the bio. Me thinks that whichever agency it was, they would be smart enough to choose an expert shooter, whether the Walker scenario was designed to be a "kill shot" or a purposeful miss (adding a chapter to the legend). That said, In the afternoon of 11/22/63, "The Director" of said agency, surely must have been quite pleased with his dastardly version of "Mr. Phelps", whoever he was/they were.

I guess we'd first have to believe that LHO "had it in" for anyone on the political spectrum. First Walker and then JFK. For me, it does not compute. There's been enough evidence out there for years that for some years, Oswald's milieu seemed to be replete with intelligence types.

" . . .conservatism" . . . is a canard." Agree. I would not doubt that some see "liberalism" as being "extreme left". That too, a canard. On the social scale, the extreme right and the extreme left are both authoritarian. Typically, neither works out very well for the masses.

Maybe we can now - say that "weed" is gone? David, what say you? Myth or fact?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph4VbLZtvyA Full screen, it looks to be flowers. The other photos appear to depict Lambchop.

Greg, read it; excellent. Most certainly, in the least, reasonable doubt.

Joe, we do remember that there were witnesses on the knoll who believed at least one shot came from behind them. Wouldn't "behind" necessarily include the colonnade? From the photo, the angle of the dent appears that it could have originated therefrom. Perhaps the photo interpreters/physicists/mathematicians here could help?