Ron Ege

Gil, of course. That would be a double "ouch" for Officer Baker. But even if Mrs. Reid was mistaken (and I don't believe she was) and Oswald was some kind of "quick change artist" that day, ala Superman and somehow had put on his shirt right before the "encounter", Baker's description still does not "wash". I am curious if someone here may have an idea as to how/why Baker could've been so mistaken, writing in his own hand, "lt brown jacket", in his first day Affidavit in Fact, quite soon after the "encounter" - when his memory would still have been quite vivid. There is a stark visual difference between a man dressed in a medium brown ivy league, button down collar shirt with eight contrasting white buttons or a white tee shirt and one who is wearing a "lt brown jacket". I'm probably misremembering, but wasn't there a report from someone at street level, prior to the shots, saying they saw a man in the sixth-floor window dressed in a jacket?

Gil, thanks. 'Tis difficult for me to get around this: I believe that a person's earliest description of a scene/incident to be more valid, than later recalls. From Officer Marion Baker's first day, handwritten Affidavit in Fact: " . . . . The man I saw was a white man appeared 30 years old 5 - 9 - 165 dk hair and wearing a lt brown jacket . . . ." Baker being unfamiliar with the building, thinking he was on the 3rd or 4th floor, I do get it. However, as a trained police officer, I do not buy that he could get LHO's weight description that wrong - by what, some 30 pounds? And then the "jacket". Even with a shirt being worn outside the trousers, I do not believe that it would appear to be a jacket (and no proof Oswald owned such a jacket). Baker looks at the person, very close-up (3-4 feet away), while questioning Truly, yet still describes the guy's outerwear as a jacket? First of all, Oswald's work shirt that day, to me, appears more of a medium brown. I do realize that is subjective - but How many jackets sport an Ivy League type, button down collar? And how about those fairly miniscule - for a jacket anyway - obvious, eight white buttons - 2 on the collar and six down the shirt's center, contrasted against the dark shirt fabric? Not very noticeable? According to Baker, he confronted the man and asked Truly if the guy belonged there. That scene is much more than a "fleeting glimpse". I can't buy it.

Gil, thanks. Good summation. IMO, you're on the mark. About | Media Research Center (mrc.org) And: Dem ‘talking points’ and parroting media minions raise eyebrows (bizpacreview.com) I'm sure the websites will be criticized, but one only has had to have watched, read, and listened, especially over the past 20 years, to understand there has occurred a significant change in political ideology in the country. One can discuss if it's been for o better or worse. Anyway, at some point subsequent to the 11/22/63, for those who began to doubt the WC and began their research, the question of MSM complicity in covering up the government's "Lone Nut Did it" official position seemed likely. History, IMHO, has proven them correct. Where were the legions of journalists/reporters then - investigating - when obvious doubts were raised by early researchers? Where are they now - some sixty years later? Imagine the multiple Pulitzer Prizes, accolades, publicity, book deals within its grasp - just summarily ignored. I respect your and others takes here and was not (and maybe still is) the hypothesis that in the early '60s the MSM was covering for a right-wing intelligence/military/industrial complex and therefore complicit in the coverup? Since then, I would totally agree that over the decades, there has been a more apparent MSM swing in ideology - quite leftward, in comparison. I guess my question is, why has not today's MSM not loosed legions of reporters/journalists and millions of dollars, tracking down the truth of the JFK assassination. One can only imagine the explosive, block-buster story - finally divulged after nearly 60 years. Is the MSM really thinking, "Nah, old news; nobody's interested anymore."

Ron, thanks for the reminder. Read it a couple times. Inclined to agree.

Oswald may have or may not have been Prayer Man; "jury's still out on that" - is what I gather by reading others here. If it's ever proved to have been him, then surely, "Case Closed". Is it really impossible to have been Oswald, since it appears that he was already on the TSBD's first floor and then maybe ducking out at the last moment for a quick look-see, while everyone is focused on the street/motorcade? The shots ring out, and during the chaos, Oswald, after just a few seconds and no one noticing him, quickly goes back in, especially if he was involved, even in a peripheral way - re the hypothesis that he was told the assassination attempt was just a false flag operation that was designed to fail - and then, "Aw-oh, not so much!" Relative to keeping Oswald out of sight during the shooting, could he not have been told, "Hey Oz, hang tight there in the first-floor lunch-room until such time as the motorcade passes. Then we'll call you on the house phone and let you know what happens next." Was there not some evidence that Oswald may have been the one telling the press, rushing into the TSBD after the shooting, where the phone was? Maybe the phone doesn't ring by time X (the op has been called off) - and/or Ozzie decides, "Hey, I don't want to miss seeing the prez; I'll just go out for a few seconds. They won't know. That phone ringer is pretty loud - I won't miss the call." Oswald may not have been a "super sleuth", but IMHO he was smart enough not to panic, immediately after the shooting. He was able to "act natural", collect his thoughts for a couple of minutes, and then exit the TSBD, and as has been suggested, begin the trip to meet his contact, that was prearranged - "In case something goes a little sideways, Oz. No worries: we've got your back."

Sandy, thanks. I do remember reading same, now. I will admit, rather convincing. My take is that Oswald was 'hornswoggled" that day. That morning, he may have thought he knew all there was to know - but in reality, he didn't know what he didn't know. Thus, the trip to apartment and then to the theatre, in a quest to find out what he didn't know before.

Pat, thanks - you do great work! Am I understanding that you subscribe to the second-floor lunch encounter between Baker/Truly and Oswald? Others here have presented evidence, I thought when I read it anyway, that strongly implied that said encounter never happened. It being just a concocted story to fit predetermined scenario - or a real encounter with a "someone" (never identified)- who was not LHO. Frankly, I have no idea whether either one is correct, or even another scenario was possible. I just value your take, as well as everyone else's here. All comments welcome.

Thanks, Jean Paul and Pat. So, as we've long been aware, the evidence definitely has Williams on the sixth floor, very shortly before the motorcade was to pass, enjoying a soft drink and his lunch. LHO evidently not there (unless he's "hanging out" behind some boxes, quiet as a church mouse) just conveniently "waiting in the wings" close by - or maybe he was just roaming around the first floor/sitting in the lunchroom (as reported by others), watching the elevators for anyone perhaps going up to the sixth floor, hoping the "coast was clear", when he finally got up to the "sniper's lair"? Hm-m? How could Oswald be absolutely sure Williams would not remain there to watch the motorcade? After all, there were those who watched from the fifth floor. Regardless of what Williams may or may not have said, people change their minds all the time. Also, the motorcade was also running late. Does the thought cross Ozzie's mind, "Gosh, will I have enough time to "set up" before my bud, Bonnie Ray, hauls his keister out of there? "I've got a job to do!" Of course, almost assuredly, he must have already used his dime to assemble the rifle, right? He was a master planner, no? Naturally, covering all the bases, he'd most likely be monitoring the motorcade's progress on his personal, trusty transistor radio or maybe a radio in one of the break rooms? "No worries", he thinks. "Hey, I've got this." Only upon Williams' departure, can Ozzie retrieve the MC from its hiding place, in preparation for the assassination. One cool, calm, and collected young man, he. By golly, that guy, Lee, could predict and overcome - all the possible contingencies, couldn't he?

Johnathan, Forgetting for a moment any incontrovertible evidence "Harvey and Lee" has any validity and/or that LHO had any CIA association, do you believe it was possible for him to have been, perhaps, a low-level ONI operative and/or an FBi informant? What I've always found most curious was that LHO allegedly defected, publicly stating that he was going to divulge classified information garnered during his enlistment. Other than his discharge being downgraded, Oswald appeared to have suffered no consequences, upon his return to the states - other than eventually being "overseen" by the FBI. 'Twould seem that, in the least, LHO would've immediately undergone a lengthy interrogation by some government agency - to put to rest any concerns regarding harm to national security. Maybe that was done, secretly? And is it not a matter of record that after his New Orleans Street scuffle, he requested to speak to a specific FBI agent? Also, curious that. Just thinking out loud; your observations always welcome.

And that was Jack Dougherty, correct? If so, do you see him playing any role, that day?

Quite agree.

Michael, I do understand. Regarding a specialized aptitude test - mine was administered about half-way through basic training, having only signed up for the "Administrative" portion of the four parts Air Force initial aptitude test, which also included the categories entitled - "General", "Mechanical", and "Electronics". Something in my score tipped them off the I'd make a pretty good Morse Intercept Operator - hence my eventual assignment to the USAF Security Service. Part of my post - was - implying that LHO's record did not indicate a specialized aptitude test for score for language - because such would've been evidence that in addition to his official MOS, at some point, he had also undergone language training for his eventual intelligence role. Of course, I can't prove he did - but I don't believe it to have been impossible - given what appears to be unexplained absences during his active-duty time - that he could have received some sort of intense "undercover" language training. And yes, I'm aware of the discussion on how good his Russia may or may not have been. I guess I'm leaning on the - "it was somewhat too good to have been learned by the 'Berlitz method'" side of the equation.

Michael, thanks. My experience, U. S. Air Force (USAF) Security Service, '62-'63, parallels yours. I worked alongside DLI graduates. By definition, their assigned Air Force Specialty Code (AFSC) requiring a foreign language most definitely dictated an intelligence assignment. Along with the specific needs of the USAF, for any enlistee their enlistment aptitude tests' results determined what range of AFSCs they'd qualify for, upon active-duty entry. Certain lengthy technical assignments would only be made after the potential student passed yet another very specific, to a specific AFSC, aptitude test. Before making a costly investment sending a troop to a lengthy technical school, the USAF wanted to be fairly certain that he/she would be successful there. Assignment to the DLI was one of those schools, and the score was made part of the individual's record. I worked with Army, Navy, and Marine troops who had the equivalent career field code (MOS, NEC, AFSC) that I did, and their scores were in their records. Odd, Oswald's proficiency test result is on record - but no score for an MOS specific aptitude test.

Greg, interesting conjecture - re what brought Tippit and his killer together. It certainly makes more sense than the official story. For me, the killer adding the coup de grace shot makes a lot more sense if the meeting was prescheduled as a hit, with Tippit totally unsuspecting. For him, "There is no such thing as coincidence, only hitsuzen" - comes to mind.

Greg, thanks. A superb summation - and great questions. I read a long time ago Tippit may have been killed by a former/another current paramour of a woman with whom Tippit was having an affair. Has that theory been 100 percent disproved? Admittedly, the pretty somewhat obvious coup de grace shot to Tippit's head doesn't seem to quite fit that scenario. And is there not the theory that Tippit was killed by a fellow police officer? There are so-o many questions that are left unanswered in the "official story". Tippit and Mather's association known. Ruby and Craford's association known. Ruby's ties to the mob/gunrunning/ Cuba, awareness of the FPCC, and Oswald's ties, also. Craford and Oswald's links to intelligence. Goes on and on. All this explained by Sixth Degrees of Separation? I've yet to read anything, that makes sense that is, that LHO had the demeanor of cold blooded/no conscience killer that could nonchalantly gun down the POTUS and then just a little later, a police officer - on his way to watch an afternoon matinee.

Ben, interesting. Just wondering, and I do understand that it is just your speculation, what your estimated probability of Oswald assuming that role and actually carrying it out on 11/22/63? 'Tis been a long time, but didn't Oswald ask one of his fellow workers that day, something to the effect of, "What is all the commotion (people gathering) about?" - obviously, before the motorcade passed before the TSBD. And whoever it was, told him that the president was coming, and Oswald allegedly said something like, "I see"? I agree - it sort of beggars believe that he didn't know; it that conversation did happen, then maybe if it, indeed did, he was just "polishing" his alibi? I guess I'm "hung up" on how Oswald could've done any shooting with the MC, since I've yet to read any incontrovertible proof that he brought it to work that day or any day previous. And that's not even getting into the question of whether or not ever actually ordered/had possession of it. I'm pretty sure someone here - can "straighten me out".

David, thank you. Given everything we come to discover over the past almost six decades, much attributable to your prodigious efforts, I am not understanding the hesitance of some to accept that the windshield was switched. Indeed, as you point out, "best evidence" must be ignored/disregarded to stay with the government's alternative. If the official story were to be factual, would not those in charge have taken extreme close-up, multiple, multiple photographs of the original windshield still installed on the vehicle, from every conceivable angle, from inside and outside, along with reams and reams of scientific analysis that LHO's MC, almost to the exclusion of all other rifles/ammunition caused the damage, thereby proving, incontrovertibly, to the public that ALL the shots could only have been fired by Oswald, from behind the limo? Certainly, many here are acutely aware of many much more complicated "shenanigans" that were conducted by various entities, as part of the coverup. "Windshield switching" would seem quite low on the "difficulty scale".

Tony, exactly. On Aug. 8, 2022, in the "Evidence Oswald was on the on the first floor before and after the shooting" thread, Gil Jesus aptly describes how Oswald could not have been on the second floor, let alone the sixth floor. There, Gil presented the fact that Truly told Fritz that almost immediately after the shooting, that he, Truly, entered the TSBD with Baker, seeing Oswald "near the first-floor storage room." Next, Campbell, when asked about his actions immediately after the shots, reported that when he entered, confirming Truly, that was where he, Campbell, saw Oswald. Then, you adroitly point out that the reporter uses the term "storage room" - when he described his actions, looking for the availability of a phone on the TSBD first floor. After that, did not Oswald say that he directed someone to a phone, mistakenly, if memory serves, believing it was someone in authority? Even if, as you suspect, Baker took a quick look at the fire escape before entering the TSBD with Truly, Oswald does not have enough time to rush down from the sixth floor - sight unseen/unheard by anyone. And one has to completely discount Truly's first day account, in order to believe his later "story'. As Gil laid out, NO second-floor encounter. Lastly: Chief Curry, on Nov. 23, 1963: "I don't know whether it would be enough to convict him or not. If we can put his prints on the rifle, that would certainly connect him with the rifle." The FBI evidently put his prints on the rifle the next day, after his death, in the Miller Funeral Home in Fort Worth" Chief Curry - Nov. '69: "No one has ever been able to put him [Oswald] in the Texas School Book Depository with a rifle in his hand." "Wd don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle, AND NEVER DID." "Case Closed"? Don't think so.

I also, and I'll wager others do, also. I don't believe Fritz would make the statement, not having thought through the entirety of his interrogation. Up close and personal, he noted Oswald's "cool". And based on video evidence of Oswald' demeanor and answers to the questions during the press "barrage" - interested observers would, I believe, agree with Fritz. Even without all the pretty obvious evidence which we are now aware of - that LHO had quite a few more "intelligence connections" - than the "average bear" - including most ex-military.

Pat, Your last thought ". . . Perhaps Oswald had been warned that something was gonna happen . . . " Does that take us back to perhaps, as has been theorized, Oswald being set up as a part of a false flag operation - and what you have hypothesized was perhaps his perplexed behavior when he began to realize that there was more going on, whatever he had been told (that "need to know" thing), than he was led to believe? LHO's behavior upon leaving the TSBD and what has been pieced together between then and his arrest at the Texas Theatre bespeaks of him purposely driven by the then extant circumstances, as he viewed them to be, to adopt a prearranged contingency plan - only to eventually determine (his arrest) that he'd "been had". Hence, "I'm just a patsy." IMHO, at the tender age of 24, demonstrably, especially considering being charged with the shooting of a police officer and the POTUS, his overall behavior, from the arrest until he was gunned down, rivaled that of "007's" calm, cool, and collectiveness - when Bond found himself suddenly caught up in yet another of his not necessarily expected jams".

David, thanks. Perhaps I am understanding. Are you meaning by ". . . even WITH the Single-Bullet theory intact", as you proffer it and believe to be? Apparently, I'm not "firing on all cylinders" because if the CTers believed the SBT was intact, they could not be such and therefore could not pretend there was a Badge Man - or am I missing something? Could a CTer be that much "out of it" - really?

Gil Jesus did a nice job (Evidence that Oswald was on the first floor), pinpointing LHO's whereabouts, just prior to the assassination. Was Lee Harvey Oswald Really Guilty (gil-jesus.com) And didn't LHO even say that he saw two Negroes when he was in/near Domino room, one of whose names he didn't know and whose admissions as to where they were at the time, tracked with what Oswald said? Cool assassin, that Ozzie. Waits until nearly the last minute before he skedaddles up to the sixth floor - which had to be much after witnesses would eventually report seeing someone in the "sniper's lair". Meanwhile, we have Gil's multiple witnesses placing him on the first floor.

Sean, Is this perhaps where you dug out the photograph? Warren Commission Exhibit CE-399 - The Magic Bullet (jfk-info.com) In another thread, "JFK Secret Service Agent: hole in windshield of limo!", there is a discussion about the "magic bullet's" 6.5 MM ammunition velocity dynamics, suggesting that its gradually reduced velocity, as it passed first through JFK, then through Connally's chest, striking his rib, before passing through his wrist could've accounted for the apparent minimal damage, i. e., the "pristine" appearance of the round. If that's possible, I am looking forward to the discussion of how CE 572, being shot into cotton wadding and therefore, seemingly, not incurring the exact same gradual velocity reduction scenario, managed to look almost identical to CE 399. Perhaps one of the physicists among us will be able to share a "compare and contrast" study with us?

Joe, I as well - but then, just ma-a-ybe we really not concern ourselves with further elucidation - since the assassination is all wrapped up here: LOL. See This Sniper Rifle? It Was Used To Assassinate President John F. Kennedy | The National Interest

Sean, thanks. Have seen before - just not in the exact format you've presented. Is it not amazingly explanatory how CE 399 and CE572 appear quite nearly the same? Weren't there additional examples of rounds being fired through a goat's rib, with CE 583 selected as the one least affected? If one were not convinced there was some "chicanery" afoot already, then CE 856 should remove all doubt. Anyway, there is this. Edgewood Arsenal Bullet Tests : The JFK Assassination (22november1963.org.uk) We may hear from detractors.