Bill Brown

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2020/11/doris-e-holan-and-tippit-murder.html

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2017/11/the-october-jfk-assassination-file.html

No. Just no. Markham never said that and I guarantee that you can't cite for it.

I can't be anymore clear than I was in my last post (above). Jimmy Burt tells Chapman, in 1968, that he and Smith ran from the house at 505 E. Tenth down to the shooting scene one block west. Burt tells Chapman that moments before the shooting, he noticed the man walking west on Tenth Street as the man was directly across the street from the yard they were in at 505 E. Tenth Street. Burt also tells Chapman that they stood there looking west along the alley once they had made their way south on Patton a half block. Burt also tells Chapman that, from the front yard of 505 E. Tenth Street, he said "Billy, that guy just shot that policeman", something he couldn't have known in your scenario. Bill Smith also says they were in the front yard of 505 E. Tenth Street. Bill Smith said he heard the shots, saw the officer fall and the killer run., something he couldn't have seen in your scenario.

Greg, Are you aware that Jimmy Burt told the FBI that he and Bill Smith were sitting inside his brother's house at Denver & 9th when they heard the shots? This has them not only one block east of the shooting scene, but also another block to the north, i.e. two blocks away from the shooting. Burt also told the FBI that from the shooting location, he ran over to the corner of Tenth & Patton and looked south on Patton in time to see the killer disappear into the alley (the same alley located halfway down the block that he would later see the killer in, except this time a full block down, to the west). According to the FBI interview, Burt left his car and ran to the corner of Tenth & Patton, i.e. nothing about driving off in the car with Bill Smith. Bill Smith told the Warren Commission that he and Burt were in the front yard of the house at 505 E. 10th Street and that he saw the officer fall and that he was unsure whether or not his buddy Burt saw the same thing. Bill Smith says nothing about being in a house a block to the north (and effectively two blocks from the shooting) like Burt does. Burt told Chapman in the 1968 interview that after hearing the shots, he looked at Smith and said words to the effect of "Billy, that guy just shot that policeman". How could Burt have known a policeman had been shot just seconds after the shooting if he and Smith were at Ninth & Denver? He tells Chapman in 1968 that they were at Tenth and Denver. The stories of Burt and Smith directly contradict each other. I'm inclined to believe Smith's over Burt's, that they were in the front yard of the house one block east of the shooting, they noticed the patrol car pull up alongside a man who was walking on the sidewalk, they heard the shots and Smith saw the officer fall and the gunman run away. In 1968, Burt himself tells Al Chapman that he was with Bill Smith out in the front yard of the house on Tenth Street and saw the man who would eventually kill the officer walking west on Tenth Street across the street from the front yard they were in. Burt contradicts his own earlier account, the one you are relying on. Burt goes on to tell Chapman that he and Smith then "ran down there" to the location of the shooting. It's my opinion that they went to the scene on foot from the front yard of the house at 505 E. Tenth and that you have been hoodwinked by the fabrications of Jimmy Burt, who for whatever reason, wasn't honest with the FBI during his December '63 interview with them. By 1968, Burt is more in line with what Smith testified to.

I appreciate your passion for the Tippit case, Greg. But I feel your thoughts, for whatever reason, are misguided. For my own reference, Greg, how long do you think the shooting lasted? I believe the time between the first shot and the last shot to be maybe 4 seconds total. It seems you believe the sequence took much longer.

Jimmy Burt and Bill Smith were on foot, making their way down Patton towards Jefferson (in search of the killer; all they knew is that the killer turned south onto Patton from Tenth before losing sight of him). In a 1968 interview, Burt told Al Chapman that they were making their way down Patton with the intention of going all the way to Jefferson. Once they got halfway down Patton, they looked west along the alley and saw the killer in the alley a block down (putting the killer right behind the back lot of the Texaco station where the jacket wad found, by the way). Burt literally said "we stood there" (looking west along the alley) before deciding to stop chasing the killer (he had a gun, they didn't) and make their way back up to the shooting scene.

"It must be that Frank Wright got out to his front yard about ca. 60 seconds after the time of shot #2..." Must be... only if one is willing to ignore what he did say and believe something that he never did say. "One thing that isn't fabricated about Frank and Mrs. Wright though is that Mrs. Wright did make a phone call, and that phone call is what got patched through by police to the Dudley Funeral Home to dispatch an ambulance, I believe with the Wrights' address information getting mixed up in the written and police radio data causing momentary confusion." Correct... And she said she phoned the police "immediately" (her word, according to George and Patricia Nash); not after having these fictional discussions and all this rigmarole necessary for your theory to be true. "If Mrs. Wright's phone call was for real, isn't it a bit arbitrary to say her husband, Frank, just imagined out of whole cloth the whole thing he said he saw?" I haven't said here that Frank Wright imagined the whole thing he said he saw. On the other hand, YOU are indeed saying things happened, re: Frank Wright, that the man himself never said.

"This to me is almost a no-brainer: the car Frank Wright sees the man go away in is Jimmy Burt's car! That's it. Not too complicated." Greg, Jimmy Burt and Bill Smith went off in search of the killer on foot.

"As for Frank Wright, it must be supposed he did not go out the front door within seconds as his account suggests but must have gotten out the door, come down the steps of his porch (I assume), went out a little into his front yard to get a good look, and looked, and it must be assumed that took perhaps ca. 60 seconds before he saw the man standing (identified here as William Smith on the basis of the car Frank Wright saw him leave the scene in). Wright also might have seen the prone Tippit some indeterminate small space of time before seeing the standing figure (Smith)." Greg, you're trying so hard to create a narrative that you are inventing things which Frank Wright never said. What he did say though was that he was but two steps from the front door, heard the shots and went out to see what was going on. The only reason "it must be assumed" (that it took Wright perhaps 60 seconds before he saw the man standing over Tippit's body) is if one is going to buy into your scenario.

Frank Wright said he wasn't but two steps from his front door. He said he heard the shots and went out the door. Your scenario has the car (that Wright said he saw parked near the patrol car) belonging to Jimmy Burt. If your scenario were true, Wright would have been outside looking west towards Tippit's patrol car in time to see Burt's car racing toward the same parked patrol car. However, Wright's scenario has the car already parked and the man (who would moments later get into the car) already out of the car standing over the body.

"I was contacted at one point by a man claiming to be Craig's nephew, if I recall." Yes. Jerry Craig has posted in a number of the groups and forums over the years, though I haven't seen anything from him in quite a while, years. "I have written very little about Craig. I find the whole subject depressing. But it seems quite likely he honestly believed he saw Oswald (or someone looking like Oswald) run down the slope and get into a Rambler, and was knocked a bit off center when no one would believe him." I agree that Craig did indeed see a man come down the slope and get into a station wagon. When I attack Craig's credibility, it is on his claim (when trying to get his manuscript published) that he heard of the Tippit shooting over a nearby police radio and looked at his watch, noting that it read 1:06... even though a few years earlier he was totally clueless about what time the Tippit shooting occurred, saying that it was about 1:45 and then easily accepting Penn Jones' correction that it was at 1:15. This doesn't even take into account his statement in 1968 (in the article with the LA Free Press) that he had no idea what make the rifle was since he didn't know foreign rifles, though at other times he insisted it was a Mauser.

Greg, you rely heavily on Frank Wright, in trying to advance the idea that Bill Smith is the man seen by Tatum approaching Tippit's body from the back of the patrol car. You correctly point out that Wright, when he got out to the street and looked west along Tenth, said he saw a man standing over the body. You say you now believe this man standing over the body is Bill Smith. You also rely on Myers' claim that in the 2013 version of With Malice, that Bill Smith is seen (in a photo on page 218 of Myers' book) standing with his brother in one of the aftermath photos. One of the problems for you is that Frank Wright said the man he saw standing over the body was wearing a "long coat". Bill Smith isn't wearing a long coat.

First, so you do now accept that Tatum's account has the man going around the back of the patrol car and not the front, right? Just asking for confirmation. Or, are you now saying that Tatum saw the killer go around the front of the car and moments later saw a witness go around the back of the car? Second, based on the account given by Tatum himself, Bill Smith, who was about three-fourths of a block east of the shooting scene (not a half block, as you claimed) would not have been able to make it to the scene at that early point in the timeline to be seen by Tatum (and Frank Wright, too). Simply put, Bill Smith was not at the scene in time.

The four shells found at the scene (two by Benavides, one by each of the Davis sisters) were designated Q-74, Q-75, Q-76 and Q-77 by the FBI. At the Tippit scene, Officer Joe Poe was approached by Domingo Benavides. Benavides said that he saw the cop-killer discard some shells and that Benavides picked them up by placing in a Winston cigarette wrapper. Benavides brought this Winston wrapper, with two shells in it, to Poe. When Sergeant Gerald Hill arrived at the scene, Poe offered the shells to him. Hill told Poe that he should keep them, to minimize the chain of possession. Hill told Poe to be sure to mark them and then give them members of the crime lab when they arrived. After receiving the news that the possible suspect was inside the Texas Theater, many of the officers at the Tippit scene raced off for the theater. Poe remained behind with Detective Jim Leavelle and a handful of others. Poe showed Leavelle the two spent shells that had been recovered at the scene and asked Leavelle if he wanted them. Leavelle told Poe to give them to Sergeant Pete Barnes, who was the crime lab officer at the scene. Leavelle declined taking possession of the shells in order to minimize the chain of possession. Before leaving the scene, Poe turned the two shells over to crime lab Sergeant Barnes. Now, here's where it gets interesting. In April of 1964, the Warren Commission asked Poe and Barnes to identify the two shells they had handled at the Tippit scene. Poe, when asked by the Warren Commission if he had marked the shells, replied "I couldn't swear to it. No sir." Poe then stated that he may have marked the shells but that his marking was hard to read. Poe identified the two shells (designated by the FBI as Q-75 and Q-77) as the two shells that he gave to Barnes. However, Barnes identified Q-74 and Q-75 as the two shells that he received from Poe. In June of 1964 the Warren Commission asked the FBI to interview Poe and Barnes again, in an attempt to address the differences. This time, Barnes told the FBI that the two shells given to him by Poe were Q-74 and Q-77 (as opposed to Q-74 and Q-75, as he told the Commission back in April). Poe told the FBI, after studying all four of the shells, that he couldn't find his mark on any of them and therefore, he could not positively identify any of the shells as being the same ones that he had received from Benavides. So, we have Poe's reluctance to swear that he marked the shells. We also have a lack of Poe's identifiable mark in any of the four shells. In 1996, Jim Leavelle told Dale Myers that Poe did not mark the shells. Leavelle said "Poe did not mark them. There was no reason to mark them. There is an evidence bag that is marked with the offense number along with your initials. The evidence goes to the crime lab where it is checked and returned to the bag and kept there until trial." Leavelle said that Poe was afraid that he would get in trouble for failing to mark the evidence. This would explain why Poe said that he may have marked the shells but couldn't find his markings because the shells were difficult to read. Poe said that the shells had been obliterated with markings by himself, the Crime Scene Search Section, The FBI, etc. In reality, the shells were not "obliterated" with markings at all. Leavelle goes on to tell Myers "Sometimes, officers think they are doing the right thing and get in over their heads. But, I talked to Poe. He said that he didn't remember marking them. But, that is something we didn't do back then. I didn't do it. He didn't do it. I didn't ask him to do it. When I was out there and Poe offered the shells to me, I said no, just go ahead and put them in the envelope and send them on to the crime lab and let them work with them from there." Crime lab Lieutenant J.C. Day confirmed that the 1963 Dallas Police Department did not have a consistent policy regarding the marking of evidence. Much of the ballistic evidence in the Kennedy assassination was marked by the Crime Scene Search Section, but some was not. There was a lack of consistency. Shortly after Benavides handed the two shells over to Poe, crime lab Sergeant Barnes arrived at the scene and began collecting evidence. Crime lab senior officer Captain George Doughty was with him. Remember, Poe first offered the shells to Leavelle, who declined and told Poe to turn the shells over to the crime lab. To me, it is very reasonable that Poe simply did not mark the shells in light of the crime lab's presence at Tenth and Patton. Both Doughty and Detective Dhority both selected Q-74 and Q-77 as the two shells they had handled. All of this is clearly explained by Dale Myers in With Malice.

Okay. So your position is that one of the assassins from behind used a weapon other than a high-powered one. I cannot get on board with that. I don't think that would ever happen from beyond the distance we know it to be.

"Every book and article on wound ballistics will tell you that bullet wounds in general and high velocity wounds in particular leave a permanent cavity within muscle tissue that can readily be probed." Pat, If we're agreeing that the assassin(s) used a high velocity round, you're saying that a bullet fired from a high-powered rifle only entered the back a couple inches and then stopped, even though it did not hit bone. Are you really thinking this through?

Is any of this supposed to prove my statement (that you have not even one shred of evidence proving that Ruth hated Lee) wrong? It's only your opinion, nothing more, that Ruth hated Lee.

So the assassin's high-powered rifle fired off a round that only entered the President's back a couple inches and then just stopped, even though it hadn't hit bone. Yeah, okay. This is real simple. The wound track closed.

Apparently this needs to be repeated: Roger Craig in 1968: No clue what time the Tippit shooting occurred Roger Craig in the early 70's (when trying to sell his manuscript): Heard of the shooting, looked at his watch, 1:06

Conspirators: "Let's intimidate Domingo Benavides (or even try to kill him) a year AFTER he testifies to the Warren Commission. I mean, what's the hurry?"

All bark, no bite. Or... do you care to address my post?

"You have a problem with someone changing their story a few years later, but you have no problem with Jack Ray Tatum coming forward after 15 years ? That's a story you can believe ?" You continue to make one straw-man argument after another. I have talked about the Tippit witnesses at least a couple thousand times all over the internet and in none of those discussions do I rely on Jack Tatum in an attempt to prove Oswald's guilt. "One of the things we consider when we determine the credibility of a witness is whether or not the statements of that witness are corroborated either by other witnesses or by the evidence. People's time pieces may be a couple of minutes off, but not 10 minutes. Markham approximated 1:06, the police log said after 1:08 and Bowley said prior to 1:10. Other witnesses who did not see the shooting but heard the shots gave their opinions of the time: Ted Callaway " about 1 pm" ( 24 H 204 ) Sam Guinyard "about 1pm" ( 24 H 210 ) Barbara Davis "a few minutes after 1pm" ( CD 87, pg. 556 ) Domingo Benavides " it was about 1 o'clock" ( 6 H 446 ) Francis Kinneth "approximately 1 pm" ( Oswald 201 file, Vol 25, part 2 of 2, pg. 119 ) Frank Cimino "around 1pm" ( Oswald 201 file, Vol. 8, pg. 239 )" William Scoggins: "around 1:20" Virginia Davis: "about 1:30" Pat Patterson: "approximately 1:30" Mary Brock: "approximately 1:30" (not a witness to the shooting but saw Oswald 3 to 4 minutes afterwards) "Mrs. Higgins "heard the shots and ran out her front door to see Tippit lying in the street. She said it was 1:06. She knew that because she was watching TV and the announcer said it. So she automatically checked her clock when he said it and he was right." So then you should have no trouble providing the film clip of ANY "announcer" proclaiming that the time was 1:06. Go on. I'll wait. "People's time pieces may be a couple of minutes off, but not 10 minutes." The verbal time stamps on the Dallas Police Tapes may be off by one minute (at the most) "but not 10 minutes". The police tapes, combined with the descriptions of their own actions by Benavides and Bowley, clearly tell you that the shooting occurred right around 1:15. Even if the tapes are off by as much as one minute, then the shooting occurred around 1:14 to 1:16. No chance in hell the time stamps are ten minutes off and therefore, no chance the shooting occurred around 1:06. "As far as Craig's credibility with regard to a man running down the slope and getting into a Rambler, his credibility is bolstered by the corroborating statements of Helen Forrest, James Pennington, Roy Cooper and Marvin Robinson ( CD 5, pg. 70 )." Well what do you know? Another straw-man argument (they're adding up). I haven't seen anyone attack Craig's credibility with regard to a man running down the slope and getting into a Rambler.

Roger Craig was interviewed in 1968 and in that interview, he stated that Tippit was shot around 1:40. He was immediately corrected by Penn Jones, who told him (Craig) that the Warren Commission determined that the shooting occurred around 1:15. Craig's response to that? "Was it? Oh, that's right." Then, a few years later, in the early 70's, while writing his manuscript "When They Kill A President", Craig states matter-of-factly that he heard about the shooting over in Oak Cliff on a nearby police radio while he was in Dealey Plaza and he looked down at his watch and noted that the time was 1:06. Isn't it something that Craig didn't remember this 1:06 police radio stuff while doing the 1968 interview a few years earlier? Think about it. 1968: No clue what time the Tippit shooting occurred Early 70's: Heard of the shooting, looked at his watch, 1:06

No discussion on the single bullet theory would be complete without mention of Dale Myers' work (apologies in advance if this has been posted earlier in this thread; I'm not going back and reading through it)... http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/intro.htm Beginning at the 8-minute mark... https://archive.org/details/BeyondConspiracy