Fry him for that Coke!

[Christopher Hall]

I thought that Helter Skelter was of very modest quality, certainly compared to "The Family", which was outstanding.

I will update this post later with the author of The Family, but he used to be a member of the 1960s era psychedelic band called the Fugs.

The ex-Fug was Ed Sanders. Good book. [Coined the unforgettable term "vomit-eyed trolls of Satan."]

Despite being primarily about Son Of Sam, also recommended for its overlapping content is The Ultimate Evil by Maury Terry.

Thanks.

I will try to order a used copy of Ultimate Evil on Amazon.

Helter Skelter is largely about VB.

More importantly, however, I can see the need for 1,600 pages to refute all of the various political dynamics, intelligence machinations, people in Dallas on 11/22/63, governmental cover-up, and other seeming coincidences that one must explain away to defend the LN position.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Christopher Hall

[Steve Thomas]

Lee,

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0438-001.gif

I can't say that I ever read Whaley's affidavit before, but in reading through it now, I was struck by the fact that in following Whaley's directions, he actually drove right past Oswald's rooming house and continued for another five blocks before dropping him off.

I always thought that Whaley pulled up five blocks short, but he actually drove Oswald right past his house and then continued on for another five blocks.

Strange.

Steve Thomas

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

I always thought that Whaley pulled up five blocks short, but he actually drove Oswald right past his house and then continued on for another five blocks.

Strange.

Steve Thomas

Assuming, arguendo, that LHO did take that cab: Yes, it is particularly strange that a reputed penny-pincher like LHO would instruct his cabbie to drive him well past his destination. However, when we consider that the putative assassin apparently decided it was suddenly a good time to go retrieve his handgun - ["I really should have brought it with me to the assassination; my how forgetful I'm becoming"] - I suggest it's reasonable to infer that LHO suddenly thought himself vulnerable to something, enough to arm himself, and wished to ensure he wasn't followed in the process.

Getting out of the cab blocks past his rooming house and walking back would allow him to eyeball on-coming traffic to spot anyone who might have been tailing him. But if one is being followed, how does one know which car to watch for, the make and model of the car being driven?

The remarkably timed appearance of a DPD squad car in front of the rooming house just after his arrival there, and it's reported honking of the car horn, may help to ultimately explain who LHO suddenly feared enough to arm himself, who he anticipated would follow him, and why he did not respond to the car honking its horn outside his rooming house.

[Jack White]

I always thought that Whaley pulled up five blocks short, but he actually drove Oswald right past his house and then continued on for another five blocks.

Strange.

Steve Thomas

Assuming, arguendo, that LHO did take that cab: Yes, it is particularly strange that a reputed penny-pincher like LHO would instruct his cabbie to drive him well past his destination. However, when we consider that the putative assassin apparently decided it was suddenly a good time to go retrieve his handgun - ["I really should have brought it with me to the assassination; my how forgetful I'm becoming"] - I suggest it's reasonable to infer that LHO suddenly thought himself vulnerable to something, enough to arm himself, and wished to ensure he wasn't followed in the process.

Getting out of the cab blocks past his rooming house and walking back would allow him to eyeball on-coming traffic to spot anyone who might have been tailing him. But if one is being followed, how does one know which car to watch for, the make and model of the car being driven?

The remarkably timed appearance of a DPD squad car in front of the rooming house just after his arrival there, and it's reported honking of the car horn, may help to ultimately explain who LHO suddenly feared enough to arm himself, who he anticipated would follow him, and why he did not respond to the car honking its horn outside his rooming house.

Robert...I usually find your arguments flawless...but here YOU ASSUME that Oswald owned a revolver.

I am less certain that he did, just as he did not own a MC rifle. How did such assertions become "facts"?

I am also less than certain that he took a cab.

Neither of these "accepted facts" has been proved to me.

Jack

[Tim Gratz]

I understand there are reasons to question Robert's story about the police car honking, specifically that she did not talk about it until about a week after the assassination. Seems like you would mention that the first time around. Then again, why would she make it up?

I suggest a far simpler reason than Robert's why LHO had the cab drive past his rooming house rather than stopping short of it. I suggest he may have wanted to see if there were any police cars there waiting to apprehend him and he wanted to do this while he was still in a vehicle rather than on foot.

I suspect he may have indeed taken the cab and there was an Oswald look-alike who got into the station wagon. Ony speculation, of course.

For what it is worth, VB lists as one of his reasons for the guilt of LHO the fact that he went to his rooming house to retrieve his sidearm after the assassination. I submit, however, the fact that he did not have his gun with him when he went to the TSBD is rather compelling evidence of his innocence in the shooting of the president, rather than his guilt. If he had planned to shoot the president and flee, he certainly would have had his gun with him. ("Woke up this morning, got myself a gun . . .")

Edited September 28, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Greg Parker]

Tim

The Dr. Pepper vs. Coca Cola debate was brought up in Jim Moore's LN book,

"Conspiracy Of One" back in 1990. Moore writes. "After the encounter with

Baker and Truly in the lunchroom, Oswald (displaying icy calm even though

Baker was holding at Oswald's midsection) put a nickel in the soda machine

and selected a Coca-Cola. It may be that this single action on Oswald's part

holds the key to his guilt. Oswald habitually drank Dr. Pepper. There can be

only one realistic explanation for a miser like Oswald to fail to select his soft

drink of choice--he was nervous." (Moore, page 53)

So there you have it. Case solved, or closed or whatever. However, Tim

my question is, did Bugliosi give credit to Moore for "solving" the case

via the soda episode? Or, did he take credit for figuring "sodagate" out himself, thus

opening himself up to charges of plagiarism?

Bill C

Bill,

Moore himself cites The Day Kennedy Was Shot by Jim Bishop. On page 183 of that book, it states Oswald dropped a coin in the soda machine. He got a Coca-Cola. This was nervousness because he invariably drank Dr Pepper.

I have searched for an original source on Dr Pepper being the only soda Oswald would drink, and can't find one. Yet what appears to be a myth is repeated all over the web - more so since Bugliosi's book hit the stands.

Let's dispense with it here and now. From page 210 of Marina & Lee in reference to Oswald's visits to Marina while she was staying at the Hall's:

Marina remembers he was "always running to the ice-box," a thing he never did at home when he was paying for the groceries himself, to fix a Coke or a sandwich."

From Mrs Reid's WC testimony indicating he sometimes sought change for the coke machine:

The only time I had seen him in the office was to come and get change and he already had his coke in his hand so he didn't come for change...

Lastly, a substantial number of witnesses recalled sometimes seeing Oswald leaning in the doorway of the 2nd floor lunchroom. Though none specifically stated he was drinking a Coke whilst doing so... that does seem a logical explanation for lingering there.

[Tim Gratz]

Great post, Greg! I think you may have VB!

He claims to have read "Marina & Lee."

I hope someone communicates this to him (he does not use computers; must be a Luddite!).

Edited September 28, 2007 by Tim Gratz

[Duke Lane]

Bill, I am quite certain that Oswald himself told his interrogators he had gone upstairs to get a COKE. Then again maybe he just said a soda and they assumed it was a Coke. And it is possible that whoever saw him with a soda (Baker maybe; Mrs. Reid) could have mistaken a Coke for a Dr. Pepper. But why would he go upstairs if Dr. Pepper was available on the first floor? I mean in that sense Bugliosi has a point. Since he almost always drank Dr. Pepper, that sounds like a cover story for why he was on the second floor--unless the machine on the first floor was out of Dr. Pepper. If it was, Oswald might not have thought it important enough to mention to his interrogators.

Sheesh! ... I'm tellin' ya ... Yankees!

Has nobody ever heard the sort-of joking dialog between the two Texans were one says "I'll have a coke," and the other asks, "what kind of coke did you want?" The first replies "I'll have an orange."

There's hardly any native Texan who will ask for a "soda," and most people in Texas don't call it "pop," either. Sure, a "Dr Pepper" is distinct from a "Coke" or a "Coca-Cola," but it's not at all distinct from a "coke" ... any more than a 7-Up is.

So is Bugliosi right? Does the Coke damn Oswald? Well, consider the timing. ...

Parse it any which way you want, you absolutely must take into account the colloquialism.

You should also take into account that, when Baker made his written statement, he crossed out "holding a coke." Hal Weisberg made a big issue of this in one of the Whitewash books. Weisberg figured Baker out to be a xxxx, but it nevertheless remains possible that LHO did not, in fact, have anything in his hand. Baker likewise testified that LHO didn't have anything in his hands, as Ron Ecker pointed out above.

I likewise think that it has been long and often debated whether or not LHO could have done the things that were attributed to him given the time constraints that he had, which were at the time unknown to him. That is was possible was proven, in my opinion, by Mack and Perry in Unsolved History, even while I object to the program's use of a fitness buff to portray the hurrying Oswald (or the crack shot to portray the shooter Oswald).

What is true, however, is that Oswald didn't know he'd have any time constraint: he had no idea he'd encounter Baker until he encountered Baker, and thus couldn't have known he'd have to rush down the stairs so quickly and cover his tracks by being in the lunch room, coke-in-hand or not.

What intrigues me more than the arguments about whether LHO could've done what he's purported to have done or not is that nobody seems to consider the actions of anyone else who didn't apparently have any such constraints, and managed - if his actions were deliberate or at someone else's direction - to work around them quite admirably ... to the extent that not even today, much less back then, nobody considers anyone in the building other than Oswald to be a possible perpetrator.

Nor do they seem to have worked out how someone - other than Oswald - could have abetted the shooters' escape (presuming there to be more than one, and none of them Oswald). Yet information to support this possibility has been before us for more than 40 years. That would be an interesting debate! Maybe someday, I'll start it ....

Edited September 29, 2007 by Duke Lane

[Greg Parker]

Parse it any which way you want, you absolutely must take into account the colloquialism.

Duke, I'd heard before that "coke" was used generically in Texas... but wonder how relevant that really is.

Does anyone really think he got a Dr Pepper's on the first floor and took it up to the second floor?

Do you think Marina used the term generically when she told Miss Prissy that he helped himself to the Hall's icebox to "fix himself a Coke or a sandwich"? IMO, that's hardly likely...

You should also take into account that, when Baker made his written statement, he crossed out "holding a coke." Hal Weisberg made a big issue of this in one of the Whitewash books. Weisberg figured Baker out to be a xxxx, but it nevertheless remains possible that LHO did not, in fact, have anything in his hand. Baker likewise testified that LHO didn't have anything in his hands, as Ron Ecker pointed out above.

Baker should have been interrogated regarding the significant discrepancies between his testimony and his affidavit of 11/22.

I likewise think that it has been long and often debated whether or not LHO could have done the things that were attributed to him given the time constraints that he had, which were at the time unknown to him. That is was possible was proven, in my opinion, by Mack and Perry in Unsolved History, even while I object to the program's use of a fitness buff to portray the hurrying Oswald (or the crack shot to portray the shooter Oswald).

What is true, however, is that Oswald didn't know he'd have any time constraint: he had no idea he'd encounter Baker until he encountered Baker, and thus couldn't have known he'd have to rush down the stairs so quickly and cover his tracks by being in the lunch room, coke-in-hand or not.

What intrigues me more than the arguments about whether LHO could've done what he's purported to have done or not is that nobody seems to consider the actions of anyone else who didn't apparently have any such constraints, and managed - if his actions were deliberate or at someone else's direction - to work around them quite admirably ... to the extent that not even today, much less back then, nobody considers anyone in the building other than Oswald to be a possible perpetrator.

Nor do they seem to have worked out how someone - other than Oswald - could have abetted the shooters' escape (presuming there to be more than one, and none of them Oswald). Yet information to support this possibility has been before us for more than 40 years. That would be an interesting debate! Maybe someday, I'll start it .... cool.gif

The shooter/decoy was allowed to escape by Roy Truly. It was the person encountered by Baker on the third - or more likely - fourth floor as per his affidavit. Baker never encountered Oswald an any floor. There are a number of extremely enlightening threads relating to this currently on the Lancer forum, and I have previously discussed the issue here.

I suspect the 40+ information you refer to is not Baker's affidavit -- however, your ideas are always interesting, so I hope you do start that debate.

[Ron Ecker]

Nor do they seem to have worked out how someone - other than Oswald - could have abetted the shooters' escape (presuming there to be more than one, and none of them Oswald). Yet information to support this possibility has been before us for more than 40 years. That would be an interesting debate! Maybe someday, I'll start it

I remember someone suggesting that the shooter or shooters had keys to the building and spent the night before (and presumably most of the morning) on the roof. Are you familiar with that?

[Duke Lane]

Parse it any which way you want, you absolutely must take into account the colloquialism.

Duke, I'd heard before that "coke" was used generically in Texas... but wonder how relevant that really is. Does anyone really think he got a Dr Pepper's on the first floor and took it up to the second floor? Do you think Marina used the term generically when she told Miss Prissy that he helped himself to the Hall's icebox to "fix himself a Coke or a sandwich"? IMO, that's hardly likely...

If you spent some time in Texas, you'd think it very likely, methinks, and I'll be Jack White will agree with me. Marina had been in the US only a couple of years, and only in Texas (except for a brief stint in NO), so why wouldn't she pick up this idiom? Coca-Cola wasn't in the USSR that long ago, so I doubt she'd make the distinction. To her, with most of her exposure to English being Texan, a "coke" was anything fizzy.

(How colloquial is someone "fixin'" something like a Coke (or a coke) anyway? 'Taint from Minsk, I can tell you that! "He went to fix himself a sandwich?" In New York, they'd say you'd "make" yourself a sandwich. Texan.)

I will need to find out a bit more about the machines, but given the colloquialism, I don't necessarily think that a "coke machine" would not have Dr Pepper in it then, even if a "Coke machine" would not have it in there today (well, actually, it might: I think Coca-Cola makes Dr Pepper, or is that Frito Lay? I don't drink the stuff myself, but I'm told if it ain't from Dublin, it ain't Dr Pepper!). In those days - speaking from experience - most pop machines were self-filled from wood-and-wire cases stored on the floor, so you could put anything in it you wanted, no matter what it said on the outside.

As someone else noted, tho', is there really any original source that says the he drank Dr Pepper, exclusively or preferably, to the exclusion of anything else? Either way, if the downstairs soda machine was empty of whatever it was he'd wanted, and it could be gotten out of the 2nd floor soda machine, then yes, it's possible he'd gone up to the second floor to get a "coke."

You should also take into account that, when Baker made his written statement, he crossed out "holding a coke." Hal Weisberg made a big issue of this in one of the Whitewash books. Weisberg figured Baker out to be a xxxx, but it nevertheless remains possible that LHO did not, in fact, have anything in his hand. Baker likewise testified that LHO didn't have anything in his hands, as Ron Ecker pointed out above.

Baker should have been interrogated regarding the significant discrepancies between his testimony and his affidavit of 11/22.

There's a lot of coulda-woulda-shoulda's in the WC investigation. This is no more or less surprising than any of the rest.

... What intrigues me more than the arguments about whether LHO could've done what he's purported to have done or not is that nobody seems to consider the actions of anyone else who didn't apparently have any such constraints, and managed - if his actions were deliberate or at someone else's direction - to work around them quite admirably ... to the extent that not even today, much less back then, nobody considers anyone in the building other than Oswald to be a possible perpetrator.

Nor do they seem to have worked out how someone - other than Oswald - could have abetted the shooters' escape (presuming there to be more than one, and none of them Oswald). Yet information to support this possibility has been before us for more than 40 years. That would be an interesting debate! Maybe someday, I'll start it ....

The shooter/decoy was allowed to escape by Roy Truly. It was the person encountered by Baker on the third - or more likely - fourth floor as per his affidavit. Baker never encountered Oswald an any floor. There are a number of extremely enlightening threads relating to this currently on the Lancer forum, and I have previously discussed the issue here.

I suspect the 40+ information you refer to is not Baker's affidavit -- however, your ideas are always interesting, so I hope you do start that debate.

Roy Truly? Why do you think that? And how did he accomplish it, do you think? If Baker said he'd encountered someone on the third or fourth floor that explicitly wasn't Oswald (it's been a while since I've even looked at his affidavit), then he wouldn't have been the only one who did, and there's another of those things that "shoulda-been" explored more than was.

And then there's the guy on the fifth floor ... but by all means, do expound on that Roy Truly thing ....

[Greg Parker]

If you spent some time in Texas, you'd think it very likely, methinks, and I'll be Jack White will agree with me. Marina had been in the US only a couple of years, and only in Texas (except for a brief stint in NO), so why wouldn't she pick up this idiom? Coca-Cola wasn't in the USSR that long ago, so I doubt she'd make the distinction. To her, with most of her exposure to English being Texan, a "coke" was anything fizzy.

Duke,

Frazier referred to the machine in the Domino room as a Dr Pepper machine (said he'd seen LHO getting a Dr Pepper's from it).

Williams referred to the drink he had that day as a Dr Pepper's.

Jarman said he put his empty in the crate beside the Dr Pepper machine.

Truly said he'd sometimes seen LHO drinking a Coca Cola or a Dr Pepper's.

Did no one tell these people the rules of living in Texas? Or maybe they were just more sensitive to the idea that not everyone reading their testimony would be Texan?

As for Marina... it wasn't exactly uncommon for Western magazines to circulate through the black market in the USSR. Who is/was a major magazine advertiser? Coke.

I don't dispute the colloquial use of "coke", but to suggest Marina would have adopted it, when at least some people born in Texas do not appear to have done so, may be a bit of a stretch.

(How colloquial is someone "fixin'" something like a Coke (or a coke) anyway? 'Taint from Minsk, I can tell you that! "He went to fix himself a sandwich?" In New York, they'd say you'd "make" yourself a sandwich. Texan.)

She didn't say "fixin'", and adopting idiomatic language is more likely with verbs than with nouns. Reason being, names of things tend to be entrenched. Or... fixed, if you will...

I will need to find out a bit more about the machines, but given the colloquialism, I don't necessarily think that a "coke machine" would not have Dr Pepper in it then, even if a "Coke machine" would not have it in there today (well, actually, it might: I think Coca-Cola makes Dr Pepper, or is that Frito Lay? I don't drink the stuff myself, but I'm told if it ain't from Dublin, it ain't Dr Pepper!). In those days - speaking from experience - most pop machines were self-filled from wood-and-wire cases stored on the floor, so you could put anything in it you wanted, no matter what it said on the outside.

Yeah, that's my memory, too. But every one who mentioned either or both machines made the distinction: the one in the Domino Room was a Dr Pepper's... the one on 2nd floor was a Coke.

Your point is well taken though that the Coke machine could well have had Dr Pepper in it.

As someone else noted, tho', is there really any original source that says the he drank Dr Pepper, exclusively or preferably, to the exclusion of anything else?

That was me. Does Bugliosi give a cite for this?

Either way, if the downstairs soda machine was empty of whatever it was he'd wanted, and it could be gotten out of the 2nd floor soda machine, then yes, it's possible he'd gone up to the second floor to get a "coke."

He seems to have done so a few times prior to Nov 22nd. Maybe he was setting up his alibi from the time he started?

Roy Truly? Why do you think that? And how did he accomplish it, do you think?

For the sake of argument, let's assume Oswald was guilty and the Truly/Baker/Oswald encounter did happen. Wouldn't you agree that - however innocently it may have been - Truly's intervention allowed Oswald to get out of the building? What would Baker have done had Truly not been there to vouch for the potential assassin?

If Baker said he'd encountered someone on the third or fourth floor that explicitly wasn't Oswald (it's been a while since I've even looked at his affidavit), then he wouldn't have been the only one who did, and there's another of those things that "shoulda-been" explored more than was.

I actually think we've had this discussion before. But anyway... he didn't explicitly say it was Oswald, nor accurately describe him despite the fact Oswald was sitting in the same room. His description though, was in sync with those given by Brennan and Rowland. Also missing from the statement: any mention of a lunch-room.

And then there's the guy on the fifth floor ... but by all means, do expound on that Roy Truly thing ....

The arguments are very well laid out in a thread called "Did Baker Truly Meet Oswald over at Lancer.

[Ron Ecker]

I've always wondered why Truly was there to intervene for Oswald, why Truly was allowed to be with Baker in the first place. Why would a cop, with his revolver drawn and looking for an assassin or assassins, let a civilian tag along with him?

This cop surely knew how to climb stairs without Truly's assistance. He could also see rooms and wouldn't need an endangered civilian along to tell him "there's this room here" and "there's this room over there." While at any moment there could a fusillade of bullets.

Seems to me that either Baker was an irresponsible cop or something was going on.

On the "Coke" subject, when I was a kid in Florida I think we called cold drinks in general "cold drinks." (Only kids from up north used prissy words like "soda" or "soda pop.") I always preferred an RC and moon pie.

[Duke Lane]

I don't dispute the colloquial use of "coke", but to suggest Marina would have adopted it, when at least some people born in Texas do not appear to have done so, may be a bit of a stretch.

Not to belabor the point, but to me, it is something like the word "soda." It is a generic term where I grew up, essentially meaning any carbonated drink. Coca-Cola is a "soda," as is Dr Pepper, as is a grape or orange carbonated drink. On the other than, when one orders a "whiskey and soda," one is hardly telling the bartender to "put any carbonated drink into it you want." There are many people to whom "soda" means only the soda-water to which flavored syrup is added.

Another example is the term "y'all," a contraction of "you all," used extensively throughout the South. It as frequently refers to the singular as it does to the plural (despite the joke that the plural of "y'all" is "all-y'all"). Someone moving south from, say, New England might well try to "fit in" by adopting - and sometimes over-using - the colloquialism "y'all" even while a native Southerner might as easily use the word "you" in many circumstances. (Marina probably would've said "вы" instead of "вы-all.")

(How colloquial is someone "fixin'" something like a Coke (or a coke) anyway? 'Taint from Minsk, I can tell you that! "He went to fix himself a sandwich?" In New York, they'd say you'd "make" yourself a sandwich. Texan.)

She didn't say "fixin'", and adopting idiomatic language is more likely with verbs than with nouns. Reason being, names of things tend to be entrenched. Or... fixed, if you will...

I realize she didn't say "fixing," but "to fix" in the conjugation I used is "fixing." She said Lee would "fix" himself a sandwich (we'll leave out the "coke" part). One does not "fix" a sandwich in New England or New York. As you say, it's more likely to adopt a verb form of idiomatic speech - like "to fix?" So what's the argument here?

I will need to find out a bit more about the machines .... In those days - speaking from experience - most pop machines were self-filled from wood-and-wire cases stored on the floor, so you could put anything in it you wanted, no matter what it said on the outside.

Yeah, that's my memory, too. But every one who mentioned either or both machines made the distinction: the one in the Domino Room was a Dr Pepper's... the one on 2nd floor was a Coke. Your point is well taken though that the Coke machine could well have had Dr Pepper in it.

I'll take whatever concessions I can get ("concession" as being a noun formation of "to concede" as opposed to something one sells at a "concession stand" ... like a Coke or a Dr Pepper!).

Either way, if the downstairs soda machine was empty of whatever it was he'd wanted, and it could be gotten out of the 2nd floor soda machine, then yes, it's possible he'd gone up to the second floor to get a "coke."

He seems to have done so a few times prior to Nov 22nd. Maybe he was setting up his alibi from the time he started?

In setting up the "Dr Pepper case," VB actually makes a (TFIC) fairly strong case for why Buell Wesley Frazier was interrogated at length over his ownership of an Enfield rifle: while he himself preferred Dr Pepper, "from time to time" he actually wanted a Coke!

The Dr Pepper machine on the first floor apparently had "other drinks like orange and root beer" in it, but the Coke machine in the second floor lunch room "only had Coca-Cola in it." It was "rare" that the worker-guys would go to the second floor to get a Coke, VB gets Frazier to say, because "we had our own machine on the first floor, where we ate our lunch. It was more convenient to use the machine on the first floor" (my emphasis), Frazier explained. Yet, convenient or not, Frazier occasionally felt like having a Coke instead of a Dr Pepper, and thus - if that occurred at work - he himself had to go to the second floor lunch room to get one (Frazier did not say that the Dr Pepper machine had other drinks in it "like Coca-Cola" too!).

Because LHO, like Frazier, preferred Dr Pepper; because it was "rare" that someone would (apparently) want a Coke over a Dr Pepper enough to suffer the "inconvenience" of going to the second floor lunch room to get one, and because Frazier "could not say" if LHO had ever gone to the second floor to get a Coke rather than a "convenient" Dr Pepper (which he preferred in any case, except maybe "from time to time" like Frazier) and could "only recall seeing him with a Dr Pepper," VB therefore concludes that LHO going up to the second floor to get a Coke "doesn't even make sense" when what you usually drink is available on the floor you already claim to have been on. Why go upstairs, after all, to get a Coke - if you decide that today, "from time to time" - you'd rather have a Coke than a Dr Pepper and you can't get a Coke on the first floor? Why not just get the Coke from the Dr Pepper machine, even if there's no Coke in it? Or choose an orange or a root beer instead?

I mean, c'mon, Lee! What were you thinking!?!

All I can say for Frazier is that it's a good thing that Friday, November 22, 1963 wasn't one of those "from time to time" days he decided to have a Coke from the second floor, because then he'd rightly have been under even greater suspicion himself! It is probably also wise advice to watch your friends: if they normally drink Pepsi from one machine, but suddenly and inexplicably decide to buy a Coke from a different machine (an even more radical departure for a Pepsi fan than Coke is for a Dr Pepper fan!), do not rent a limousine that day!

(It makes one wonder why Jackie Kennedy didn't remark how Jack "didn't even get killed over something important like civil rights. Instead, he was killed by a silly little Coke fiend" instead, doesn't it?)

Bugliosi, from Reclaiming History:

There is another very powerful reason why we can know that Oswald, at the time of his confrontation with Baker in the second-floor lunchroom, had just come down from the sixth floor, not up from the first floor, as he claimed

. It is an accepted part of conspiracy dogma to believe what Oswald told Fritz during his interrogation—that he had been eating lunch in the lunchroom on the first floor at the time of the shooting and had walked up to the second floor to get a Coke from the Coke machine just before Baker called out to him. Assassination literature abounds with references to "the Coca-Cola machine in the second floor lunchroom." And indeed there was a Coca-Cola machine in the subject room. But to my knowledge, there is no direct reference in the assassination literature to

a second

soft drink machine in the Book Depository Building, and in a phone call to Gary Mack, the curator at the Sixth Floor Museum in the building, he told me he was "unaware" of any other soft drink machine in the building at the time of the assassination. What prompted my call to him was not the frequent references in the literature to the Dr. Pepper bottle found on the sixth floor after the shooting, since some soft drink machines contain a variety of drinks, but a reference in stock boy Bonnie Ray William's testimony before the Warren Commission to his getting "a small bottle of Dr. Pepper from

Dr. Pepper machine

, and stock boy Wesley Frazier's testimony that "I have seen him [Oswald] go to the

Dr. Pepper machine

by the refrigerator and get a Dr. Pepper."

Neither Williams nor Frazier expressly said what floor this machine was on, and I was aware, from a photo, that there was a refrigerator next to the Coca-Cola machine on the second floor. Through a few phone calls I was able to reach Wesley Frazier, whom I hadn' t talked to since 1986, when he testified for me at the London trial. Still living in Dallas, he told me that "there was a Dr. Pepper machine on the first floor." Where, specifically, was it? "It was located by the double freight elevator near the back of the building." Was there a refrigerator nearby, I asked. "Oh, yes, right next to it." (And indeed, I subsequently found proof of the existence of the machine, with the words "Dr. Pepper" near the top front of it, in an FBI photo taken for the Warren Commission of the northwest corner of the first floor, and it is located right next to the refrigerator.)

Frazier said that "almost all the guys would get their drinks for lunch from this Dr. Pepper machine. It mostly had Dr. Pepper, but also other drinks like orange and root beer." I asked him, "What about the Coca-Cola machine in the second-floor lunchroom? Did it have other drinks too?" He said it "only had Coca-Cola in it" and "the only time anybody would go to that machine is if they wanted a Coke, which I did from time to time." When I asked him whether or not "it was rare" for the workers to go to the second floor to get a Coke, he said, "Yes. We had our own machine on the first floor, where we ate our lunch. It was more convenient to use the machine on the first floor." Frazier said he could not say whether Oswald ever went to the second floor to get a Coke or ever drank soft drinks other than Dr. Pepper, but "I only recall seeing him with a Dr. Pepper."

Author Jim Bishop, in his book

The Day Kennedy Was Shot,

writes (without a citation, however) that Oswald "invariably drank Dr. Pepper. And we know that Marina told her biographer, Priscilla McMillan, that when he was working at Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall in Dallas in 1963, "after supper" he would walk down the street as he often did "to buy a newspaper and a bottle of Dr. Pepper.

So we see that apart from all the conclusive evidence that Oswald shot Kennedy from the sniper's nest, and therefore

had

to have descended from there to the second floor,

his story about going

up

to the second floor to get a Coke doesn't even make sense . Why go up to the second floor to get a drink for your lunch when there's a soft drink machine on the first floor, the floor you say you are already on, particularly when the apparent drink of your choice is on this first floor, not the second floor?

Why indeed? What kind of reason is "because there was no Coke on the first floor?" I agree that it makes absolutely no sense to want a Coca-Cola, and the simple fact that someone decided that they wanted on that particular day - when they could've had anything else they'd wanted (except a Coke) - proves a certain mental imbalance, especially if you have to walk up a flight of stairs to get one, and a soft drink that you didn't feel like having was much closer! (Makes ya really wonder about those guys who'd "walk a mile for a Camel" when they could've bummed a Kool from someone, doesn't it?)

QED. Case Closed. Frazier did it.

[Mark Knight]

The "coke" vs. "Coke" thing wasn't strictly a Texas thing. I grew up in southern Indiana in the 1950's and '60's , and remember the 5-cent Coke machine from Dad and Granddad's Hudson auto dealership. The phrase "buy me a coke" was one I learned at an early age, and the reference was a generic one, to any brand of soda or "soft drink," as we called them. It wasn't until I went to college and had a roommate from Philadelphia that I was regularly exposed to the term "soda" or "pop" for what I previously knew as a "soft drink" or a "coke."

Same goes for "fix" a sandwich...common phrase in southern Indiana, much moreso than "make" a sandwich. [As I got older, I wondered what was wrong with the original sandwich, that made it necessary to "fix" one. But the thought never occurred to me in my younger days, because everyone I knew "fixed" a sandwich to go with a coke...even if the "coke" was a Barq's root beer or a Dr. Pepper.]

Edited September 29, 2007 by Mark Knight