The mysterious role of Fred Crisman, Dallas tramp

[Douglas Caddy]

The mysterious role of Fred Crisman, Dallas tramp

Fred Crisman was one of the three tramps arrested in Dallas immediately after JFK’s assassination.

In regard to Crisman and JFK, below are excerpts from “Need To Know” by Timothy Good, which has just been published in paperback by Pegasus Books (New York). According to the Sunday Times (London), “The evidence that Good has amassed is too overwhelming to ignore and it is clear that a more open debate is long overdue.”

(Page 60) On 24 June 1947, pilot Kenneth Arnold observed nine crescent-shaped objects flying near Mount Rainier, Washington. [it was Arnold who described the objects as “flying saucers”, which subsequently led to UFOs being known by this term.]

(Page 101) On 1 August 1947, an AAF B-25 Mitchell twin-engined bomber crashed near Kelso, Washington, killing the pilots, Captain William Davidson and Lieutenant Frank Brown, both intelligence officers from the Fourth Air Force Headquarters at Hamilton Field, California. Two others parachuted to safety. Davidson and Brown were returning from Tacoma, Washington, where they had interviewed pilots Kenneth Arnold and Captain Edward Smith, both witnesses to UFO sightings that summer. Arnold and Smith had become embroiled in the complex and sinister Maury Island incident of 21 June when, according to witnesses in a boat, including the captain, Harold Dahl, six flying objects were seen circling above Puget Sound, one spewing “slag,” of which some fell on the boat.

Arnold and Smith had introduced the officers to Fred Crisman, a mysterious character with a background in counter-intelligence (including “black operations” for the CIA) who had investigated (and “contaminated”) the case. At the end of the meeting Crisman gave the officers a heavy box containing large chunks of the recovered fragments, which were later loaded on the B-25 at McChord Field. Arnold noted that the fragments were rather different from the aluminum-type metals that he and Smith had been shown previously by Crisman.

Arnold and Smith had run into many weird and disturbing experiences during their investigations into the Maury Island case. Was the B-25 crash in any way related to its cargo, they wondered.

(Page 111- Footnote 7) Arnold, Kenneth and Palmer, Ray, The Coming of the Saucers, published by the authors, 1952. Those interested in this case, and in Crisman’s extraordinary background – including his arrest in Dallas as one of the three “tramps” following the assassination of President Kennedy – should read Maury Island UFO: the Crisman Conspiracy, by Kenn Thomas, IllumiNet Press, PO Box 2808, Lilburn, GA 30048, 1999.

(Page 420) It has long been rumored that President J. F. Kennedy, whose navy career included commanding the motor torpedo board PT-109 in the Second World War, was well-informed about the subject. In Alien Base, for instance, I allude to his secret meeting in Washington, D.C. with George Adamski, who had been contacted by extraterrestrials and who liaised with a number of high-ranking military personnel and politicians at the time, including those in the UK (such as Lord Dowding and Lord Mountbatten, on one occasion). In addition to holding a passport bearing special privileges, Adamski held a US Government Ordinance Department card which gave him access to all US military bases and to certain restricted areas. He told my friend Madeleine Rodeffer that Kennedy had a meeting with extraterrestrials at a secret Air Force Base in Desert Hot Springs, California.

In early 2006 I received some important information from an impeccable source who was close to Kennedy and a member of the White House Staff at the time that Kennedy had been granted “special access.” My source does not wish to be identified. “As you would expect from any ex-military officer,” he explained, “a strong sense of patriotism and loyalty exists, even after retirement and a long passage of time. However, the following may be helpful”:

Around 1961/62 President Kennedy expressed a wish to see the alien bodies associated with an alien crash site. He had obviously been informed of their existence and wished to see for himself the evidence. General McCue was in charge of the arrangements at the time and Air Force One was used to take Kennedy and other top brass on this visit. The purpose of the flight was closely guarded; however, the reason for Kennedy’s flight became evident to senior personnel on board through unguarded comments and the whispering which went on. Remember, even the pilots were members of the White House Staff, ex-military and trusted implicitly.

The whispering or muted talk was mainly about the metal-like material from the crash site and the unique property of this, apparently very light, flexible and seemingly indestructible, of unknown origin…and nothing like it on Earth.

Originally the alien bodies were located a [Wright-Patterson in Ohio] and later removed to Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida, near [Panama City]…According to information received, the alien bodies were taken to Florida when Kennedy went to see them [at] a medical facility. They have probably been moved around over time.

[End of excerpts from "Need to Know" by Timothy Good]

[John Simkin]

Doug, have you read Joan Mellen's A Farewell to Justice (2005)? She has a lot of information about Fred Crisman. Joan is a member of the Forum. See this thread:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5015

There is also an article about him in Robin Ramsay's Lobster Magazine (Britain) 2001-#42 (35). Robin is a member of the Forum.

[Don Bailey]

Crisman + Holt = Hunt

Hunt + Sturgis + Harrelson = 3 tramps

Do the math and you'll find the real answer!!!

[Denis Pointing]

This old chestnut just wont shrivel and die, will it. Surely its been proved by now, beyond any reasonable doubt that the tramps are Harold Doyle, John Gedney and Gus Abrams. There's arrest records, then and now photographs and positive I.D. how much more is needed?

Edited March 30, 2008 by Denis Pointing

[Larry Hancock]

I'll be brief, a friend of mine from the northwest and I spent about three years researching Fred C. I have never published our

extensive files including a host of work by researchers who had come before us but several things are quite clear abut

Fred. He was a con man, he loved self promotion, he loved making himself look mysterious and , according to his son who

was supposedly on the boat the entire UFO thing was a fraud.

But more importantly, we interviewed his high school principal who truly disliked Fred and had tried to have him dismissed.

Even though he had nothing good to say about him he was quite clear, and still had the attendance sheets to support

it, that Fred was at work teaching on November 22, 1963.

...another very mysterious individual who had me firmly convinced he was suspicious ...before we did the grunt work.

-- Larry

[Charles Drago]

See Peter Levenda's Sinister Forces trilogy for more of value on Crisman.

Charles

[Denis Pointing]

The mysterious role of Fred Crisman, Dallas tramp. Quote on Adamski: : "In addition to holding a passport bearing special privileges,"

So he could fly to Mars no doubt. LOL

Edited November 12, 2007 by Denis Pointing

[Tim Gratz]

Great post by Larry Hancock.

So many members fail to realize that debunking myths is in fact an important contribution to the search for the truth.

By the way, I do not assume Mr. Caddy is a disinformation agent. I am sure he read somewhere that Crisman was one of the tramps. But this is a good demonstration of how false information spreads. Once it gets out there, unless a writer is a careful researcher like Larry, it gets repeated and the more often it is repeated the more believable it appears to be.

[David Boylan]

Larry's right but there sure was lots of leads pointing to Crisman. Here's one such lead (letter to Garrison)

Mr. G;

Out on the coast is a man you should talk with. Trace this

information out. His name is Fred Lee Crisman, of Tacaoma, Wash.

He flys to New Orleans steadily. 1964 eleven times. 1965, 17

times. 1966 32 times, 1967 24 times. He is the first man Clay

called after being told he was in trouble and he is the first

man that Beckham called also. He was questioned by both the CIA

and FBI in 1966 but he is able to call Wash. and they laid off of

him in a hurry. He is very good friends with Cubans and specially

SA [sergio Arcacha] in Dallas (he goes there too) and J.R. [Jorge

Rodriguez] in N.O.

Mr. Crisman is a very odd man. He supplied money for certain

political campaigns and in return is very much protected by both

Lou. politicos and Wash. state people. He has a diplomatic

passport issued on the word of a senate chairman of a committee.

He seems to have no income and certainly spends a large sum of

money on air travel. He is friends with F. Gremillion of your

state. His private office has an unlisted number (206 Ma 7-4790)

and is the meeting place for many odd characters from Cubans

to political figures. Ask him to take a lie detector test and

then ask him where he put the $200,000 dollars delivered to him

by Beckham in August of '67. (Cuban Money) Money that is used to

recruit killers to be sent to Cuba to try for Castro ask him if

it is not true that he has sent 5 different men to S.A. in Dallas

for final briefing. Make Crisman talk and you will have the

answer to why there has been fighting among certain Cuban factions

over the money in certain buried places. You know this is true

because some special Cubans have dropped out of sight. (Dropped

in Torpedo Junction) Crisman is also a pilot. He is the man that

through Beckham and S.A. (Arcacha] paid off certain people is

it not odd that he was a friend of Clay's as well as Beckham.

Is it not strange that he knew Tippet! Just ask Crisman certain

questions under a lie detector and see what the answers are. He

is the one that advised Mark Evans [beckham's alias] to hide

out in Iowa and NOT to go to N.O. to make any statement about

money or anything. Have an investigator check out the amount of

long distance calls that Beckham (Evans) has made to Crisman in

the past year and the wild places Crisman calls. He is leaving

for Europe in Jan. Keep digging Jim, you have some odd fish

on the run.

[Larry Hancock]

David, there's no doubt about that and as you probably know there was a second letter as well.

After a time I reached a personal conclusion that both letters may well have actually been

written by either Crisman or even by Beckham. There was a clear patter of Crisman trying

to create mysteries around himself, anything to give him visibility. He was also a devote of

picking up government stationary and writing "official" letters. One of his efforts appears to

associate him with a mysterious domestic intelligence network...in which one of his major

assignments was inflitrating and influencing a local school board... Actually much of the early

research we came across had been done by individuals who were trying to figure out exactly

what he was about because he played such strange roles in creating conflicts in local matters like schools

and local city goverments.

We did find solid evidence that he traveled in the SE in years after the assassination, even

doing speech writing for right wing clients. There was just nothing to put him in the area prior to

the assassination.

He's a fascinating study, no doubt about that.

-- Larry

[Ron Ecker]

JFK met secretly with George Adamski? I would certainly think, or hope, that JFK had better things to do. (Like meeting secretly with Marilyn Monroe.)

I remember reading Adamski's book in the early '50s (Flying Saucers Have Landed). The main thing I remember about it was the drawing of the beautiful Venusian woman whom Adamski met in the Southwest desert. A child could see that this was a hoax, which is just what I did (I was about 10 at the time).

The main thing I remember about Crisman in the Maury Island book is his claim that he once fought with laser-wielding underground beings called deros. (Brought back more memories from the early '50s, specifically of a sci-fi flick called The Mole Men.)

Like Adamski, Crisman reeked with credibility.

[Tim Gratz]

Ron wrote:

JFK met secretly with George Adamski? I would certainly think, or hope, that JFK had better things to do. (Like meeting secretly with Marilyn Monroe.)

FINALLY--leave it to Ron--someone has posted a proposition on which every Member can agree!

[William O'Neil]

JFK met secretly with George Adamski? I would certainly think, or hope, that JFK had better things to do. (Like meeting secretly with Marilyn Monroe.)

I remember reading Adamski's book in the early '50s (Flying Saucers Have Landed). The main thing I remember about it was the drawing of the beautiful Venusian woman whom Adamski met in the Southwest desert. A child could see that this was a hoax, which is just what I did (I was about 10 at the time).

The main thing I remember about Crisman in the Maury Island book is his claim that he once fought with laser-wielding underground beings called deros. (Brought back more memories from the early '50s, specifically of a sci-fi flick called The Mole Men.)

Like Adamski, Crisman reeked with credibility.

I knew a man ( whom I trusted) in the 1970's who was well versed in so called "Fortean" research, and Adamski. He said Adamski was a "charlatan of the highest order". Hell, One look at his UFO pic's would tell you that!

[Douglas Caddy]

Great post by Larry Hancock.

So many members fail to realize that debunking myths is in fact an important contribution to the search for the truth.

By the way, I do not assume Mr. Caddy is a disinformation agent. I am sure he read somewhere that Crisman was one of the tramps. But this is a good demonstration of how false information spreads. Once it gets out there, unless a writer is a careful researcher like Larry, it gets repeated and the more often it is repeated the more believable it appears to be.

I am puzzled by the above posting by Mr. Gratz. This thread was started by me with my quoting from Timothy Good's new book "Need To Know" in which the author discusses the mysterious role of Fred Crisman.

For Mr. Gratz in the same thread to post a reply, "By the way, I do not assume Mr. Caddy is a disinformation agent. I am sure he read somewhere that Crisman was one of the tramps. But this is a good demonstration of how false information spreads" confounds me.

Actually, Mr. Gratz's reply in my thread is a good demonstration of someone who posts a reply in a thread without even bothering to read the original posting, which was what the thread is all about: namely, Timothy Good's take on Mr. Crisman. I do not accuse Mr. Gratz of spreading disinformation but maybe confusion.

[Dawn Meredith]

[quote name='Douglas Caddy' date='Nov 13 2007, 10:12 PM' post='127317']

. I do not accuse Mr. Gratz of spreading disinformation but maybe confusion.

The understatement of the week.

Dawn