Denis Pointing Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Altgens 5 and Zapruder 120 show different people in the Elm crosswalk at Houston.This is clearly impossible. If you can identify one of the 20 persons in the Z frame anywhere within the Altgens image, you will be awarded the Gerald Posner medal of superiority. Find two of the same people and win a Bugliosi oak leaf cluster. Jack Craig's right, once you realise #20 is the policeman most (not all) of the people are easy to identify. #13 is the man with folded arms, # 12 is the older black youth, #11 is the younger black youth in the check shirt, 10# in short sleeves is the guy in Altgens standing behind the lady in a smart 2 piece suit, #8 is the lady in smart suit, #5 is lady clasping hands with white handbag held waist high,#4 is smart tall man in suit just visible in Altgens over policeman's shoulder, #3 is lady shielding eyes an holding coat. Once you realize the Altgens photo angle is all wrong all becomes clear and of course the crowd is looking in the direction of JFK. Sloppy work Jack, thank goodness Craig's here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 The behavior of the people in the alleged Altgens 5 photo is quite peculiar.The president is a half block away, and yet most of the people are not looking that direction. Jack Jack, its not fair to judge what these people were and were not looking at when the photo only captured a split second in time. And the President is a little further away than you seem to think IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123...tgensTowner.jpg I vote for Towner's cop in the left side photo, as a match for Altgen's cop. If not, where is this cop in Altgen's? I'm using the corner of the Dal-Tex building as my guide. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123...tgensTowner.jpgI vote for Towner's cop in the left side photo, as a match for Altgen's cop. If not, where is this cop in Altgen's? I'm using the corner of the Dal-Tex building as my guide. chris Nope, the cop in Altgens is standing in a direct line out from the stoplight, and is the figure seen in the upper right image in your comp. Its a perfect match to the standing cop in Zapruder.."20" in Jacks image. To understand how screwy the perspective is in Altgens, draw line on the crosswalk marking near the foot of the cop back towards the curb ...and it leads directly to the stoplight post. If the person you have voted for is the cop in Altgens, the perspective line is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Hughes3.jpg Looking at Hughes confirms it. Thanks Craig, chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Hughes3.jpgLooking at Hughes confirms it. Thanks Craig, chris No problem Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 From "Altgens5" another oddity, seemingly meaningless. The number in the film margin seems to be different in the two different contact* prints. This appears to be impossible if the number 9 was on the "original negative". There are other differences indicating different prints. *It is possible that these are not contact prints, since is is possible to print 35mm negs in a glass negative carrier. The image on the right seems too sharp to have been enlarged from a contact. This seeming anomaly may be meaningless or have an explanation, but it is an odd oddity. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) In the initial posting on this thread I presented a comparison of "Altgens5" and a Zapruder frame asking if anyone could match any of the spectators in the Elm crosswalk on Houston. I specified that the views were approximately 90 degrees apart and that the differing viewpoints made locations difficult. I said that I could find no spectators who matched. Since then I have found several possible matches (see graphic). I made one basic mistake. I mistook the white line by the policeman's feet as a car lane stripe on Elm. Further study shows it is the PEDESTRIAN CROSSWALK LINE on Houston, a difference of at least 25 feet. This proves important in locating the policeman, which I had believed was not shown in Zapruder. Instead of his being in the middle of Elm, as I had thought, it moves him to the pedestrian crosswalk area on Houston; as some have pointed out, it appears that he is man #20 on my Zapruder image. My previous graphic was NOT a study...just a comparison of two images asking whether anyone could match up any persons in the two images. There were only a few responses, so I decided to undertake a person by person analysis. Making the policeman man #20 and counting to the north person by person, #13 is a man with his arms folded across his chest. Altgens has such a man, so that is a possible match. Farther north, #8 is a woman in white sox. Just behind the policeman in Altgens is a woman in white sox, another likely match. Number 5 is a lady in a long black coat, who also may be behind the cop in Altgens. Tall man #4 is possibly behind the cop also, but not enough to be sure. Even more troublesome are people seen in Altgens who should be in Zapruder but are not seen. Starting at left, just one person north of the lady in the black coat, is a soldier with four brass buttons, service ribbons and corporal's stripes. He and the two women with him should be in Zapruder. Zapruder's #6 man is a freak with FOUR LEGS, two of them suspended in air, but he is not seen in Altlgens. Altgen's little black boy is not seen in Zapruder unless he is #11. The #10 man in short sleeve light shirt and dark pants is not seen, though a man with short sleeves and light pants is seen in Altgens. A black man in white shirt and dark pants, #12, is beside the man with folded arms but not seen in Altgens. Number 14 is a tall man in white shirt, not seen in Alltgens. Number 17 is a woman in a long red dress standing next to a shorter woman in a white blouse, and number 18, a small boy; this group is not in Altgens. The cop, #20, in Altgens is south of the crosswalk, but in Altgens is north of the crosswalk. I believe these discrepancies prove that both images cannot be genuine, since they depict the same moment in time within a few seconds. Please tell me if any of these observations are incorrect. Jack MY IMAGE IS NOT POSTING. I HAVE TRIED THREE TIMES. IT WAS BARELY OVERSIZE AND I REDUCED AND TRIED AGAIN. IT IS MUCH SMALLER THAN SOME POSTED BY OTHERS. I WILL TRY POSTING IT AGAIN AS A SEPARATE POSTING. Edited January 18, 2008 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) TRYING AGAIN. IMAGE ONLY. .......... FAILED AGAIN...MY COMPUTER SAYS THE IMAGE IS IMAGE IS 2.0 MB. WHY IS IT NOT POSTING? ............. TRYING AGAIN...REDUCED THE IMAGE TO 1.99 MB. REDUCING THE IMAGE MAKES ALL THEY TYPE LOOK BAD. .......... FAILED AGAIN. THIS IMAGE IS MUCH SMALLER THAN THOSE POSTED BY OTHERS IN OTHER THREADS. WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHY IT IS NOT POSTING. JACK Edited January 18, 2008 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Lamson Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 TRYING AGAIN. IMAGE ONLY........... FAILED AGAIN...MY COMPUTER SAYS THE IMAGE IS IMAGE IS 2.0 MB. WHY IS IT NOT POSTING? ............. TRYING AGAIN...REDUCED THE IMAGE TO 1.99 MB. REDUCING THE IMAGE MAKES ALL THEY TYPE LOOK BAD. .......... FAILED AGAIN. THIS IMAGE IS MUCH SMALLER THAN THOSE POSTED BY OTHERS IN OTHER THREADS. WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHY IT IS NOT POSTING. JACK 2mb is pretty big image to post as an attachment. Try using a proxy such as www.photobucket.com Create an account, upload your file, and after upload click in the img selection in your pbucket folder. This copies the web address of your image. Fimally do a paste to put this image link in your ed forum posting. Not seeing all of the people from Altgens to Zapurder does not seem strange at all. People have legs and feet and they sometimes move.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 In the initial posting on this thread I presented a comparison of "Altgens5" and a Zapruder frameasking if anyone could match any of the spectators in the Elm crosswalk on Houston. I specified that the views were approximately 90 degrees apart and that the differing viewpoints made locations difficult. I said that I could find no spectators who matched. Since then I have found several possible matches (see graphic). I made one basic mistake. I mistook the white line by the policeman's feet as a car lane stripe on Elm. Further study shows it is the PEDESTRIAN CROSSWALK LINE on Houston, a difference of at least 25 feet. This proves important in locating the policeman, which I had believed was not shown in Zapruder. Instead of his being in the middle of Elm, as I had thought, it moves him to the pedestrian crosswalk area on Houston; as some have pointed out, it appears that he is man #20 on my Zapruder image. My previous graphic was NOT a study...just a comparison of two images asking whether anyone could match up any persons in the two images. There were only a few responses, so I decided to undertake a person by person analysis. Making the policeman man #20 and counting to the north person by person, #13 is a man with his arms folded across his chest. Altgens has such a man, so that is a possible match. Farther north, #8 is a woman in white sox. Just behind the policeman in Altgens is a woman in white sox, another likely match. Number 5 is a lady in a long black coat, who also may be behind the cop in Altgens. Tall man #4 is possibly behind the cop also, but not enough to be sure. Even more troublesome are people seen in Altgens who should be in Zapruder but are not seen. Starting at left, just one person north of the lady in the black coat, is a soldier with four brass buttons, service ribbons and corporal's stripes. He and the two women with him should be in Zapruder. Zapruder's #6 man is a freak with FOUR LEGS, two of them suspended in air, but he is not seen in Altlgens. Altgen's little black boy is not seen in Zapruder unless he is #11. The #10 man in short sleeve light shirt and dark pants is not seen, though a man with short sleeves and light pants is seen in Altgens. A black man in white shirt and dark pants, #12, is beside the man with folded arms but not seen in Altgens. Number 14 is a tall man in white shirt, not seen in Alltgens. Number 17 is a woman in a long red dress standing next to a shorter woman in a white blouse, and number 18, a small boy; this group is not in Altgens. The cop, #20, in Altgens is south of the crosswalk, but in Altgens is north of the crosswalk. I believe these discrepancies prove that both images cannot be genuine, since they depict the same moment in time within a few seconds. Please tell me if any of these observations are incorrect. Jack MY IMAGE IS NOT POSTING. I HAVE TRIED THREE TIMES. IT WAS BARELY OVERSIZE AND I REDUCED AND TRIED AGAIN. IT IS MUCH SMALLER THAN SOME POSTED BY OTHERS. I WILL TRY POSTING IT AGAIN AS A SEPARATE POSTING. *************** Jack........... B....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 Thanks, Bernice. I tried to attach it five times without success. I even tried reducing it and it would not post. Wonder what I did wrong? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 (edited) Thanks, Bernice. I tried to attach it five times without success.I even tried reducing it and it would not post. Wonder what I did wrong? Jack I believe the little black boy IS No (11) Edited January 19, 2008 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 Thanks, Bernice. I tried to attach it five times without success.I even tried reducing it and it would not post. Wonder what I did wrong? Jack I believe the little black boy IS No (11) Thanks, Robin...I believe you are correct after seeing it much lighter. And I think I may see the black man with him (12) in the white shirt hidden behind the man with the folded arms in Altgens. In your lightened version I do not see the white cap on the "cop". The most prominent Zap "missing person" is the army man with the four brass buttons, who is the second person north of the number 5 lady in the long black coat. I don't know what to make of number 6 man in my frame, who appears to have two sets of legs, but in your frame does not. I think tallman 4 is behind the cop's hat, but the lady with him is unseen in Altgens. Ladies 1 and 2 are not seen. South of the folded arms man (13) in Altgens are 10 women (8 white, 2 black) who have NO COUNTERPARTS IN ZAPRUDER. Instead there is a tall man in a white shirt and a thin black man in their place. The small child (18) is not seen anywhere. Another oddity is that the people in Zapruder only seem to be one row deep side by side, while Altgens seems to show them several rows deep. Can you identify any others? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 Do you agree that this is a small boy? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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