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I am young and not as smart as you.....and I believe that(lol....seriously).....I read and do not post but what I recognize is that you are always saying you talked with gary mack and have visited DP...... I have visited DP too....big deal.....one thing I have to say and one question.......DP is such a small place....tiny actually....and on a huge INCLINE that no one understands unless you have been there........how could pretty much everyone say the repeated shots came from the knoll??......I am of the assumption you are a LN person?.....I am not.....but your posts are very tiring....does that make sense.......thanks and good luck in your endeaver?

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I am young and not as smart as you.....and I believe that(lol....seriously).....I read and do not post but what I recognize is that you are always saying you talked with gary mack and have visited DP...... I have visited DP too....big deal.....one thing I have to say and one question.......DP is such a small place....tiny actually....and on a huge INCLINE that no one understands unless you have been there........how could pretty much everyone say the repeated shots came from the knoll??......I am of the assumption you are a LN person?.....I am not.....but your posts are very tiring....does that make sense.......thanks and good luck in your endeaver?

Perceptive Tom.....wisdom wins the day, everytime!

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Mr. Kiehl,

Sometimes visiting the Plaza is critical when looking for perspective. I recall a discussion last year concerning who Bowers could see from the Tower(this was with respect to the men on the steps). Realizing that most of the interpretations are opinions, I went to DP and stood where Hudson stood, and could not see the Tower. That is why alot of folks suggest a trip, for it settles questions in one's mind.

And from what I've read from those "tiring" posts of Bill's, he is most certainly not a LN--he believes in a grassy knoll shooter, and has argued this many times. The question on some of the threads is on the position of the shooter, and folks are pretty grounded in their own ideas.

If you thought he was a LN from his antialteration views, well, there are those would believe that if one disagrees with alteration, they are in the LN category. The Alteration/antialteration arguments are the JERRY SPRINGER show of the message boards. They certainly get alot of hits by readers, and get pretty heated..

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Mr. Kiehl,

Sometimes visiting the Plaza is critical when looking for perspective. I recall a discussion last year concerning who Bowers could see from the Tower(this was with respect to the men on the steps). Realizing that most of the interpretations are opinions, I went to DP and stood where Hudson stood, and could not see the Tower. That is why alot of folks suggest a trip, for it settles questions in one's mind.

And from what I've read from those "tiring" posts of Bill's, he is most certainly not a LN--he believes in a grassy knoll shooter, and has argued this many times. The question on some of the threads is on the position of the shooter, and folks are pretty grounded in their own ideas.

If you thought he was a LN from his antialteration views, well, there are those would believe that if one disagrees with alteration, they are in the LN category. The Alteration/antialteration arguments are the JERRY SPRINGER show of the message boards. They certainly get alot of hits by readers, and get pretty heated..

correct that: "wisdom wins the day, most of the time!"

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I am young and not as smart as you.....and I believe that(lol....seriously).....I read and do not post but what I recognize is that you are always saying you talked with gary mack and have visited DP...... I have visited DP too....big deal.....one thing I have to say and one question.......DP is such a small place....tiny actually....and on a huge INCLINE that no one understands unless you have been there........how could pretty much everyone say the repeated shots came from the knoll??......I am of the assumption you are a LN person?.....I am not.....but your posts are very tiring....does that make sense.......thanks and good luck in your endeaver?

I think one should not just visit Dealey Plaza, but take the photographic record with them and spend as much time as possible studying the geography and the angles involved. I have stayed as long as nine days at a time while putting in 5 to 8 hours a day. While I have not counted my hours spent testing the assassination images, I am certain that it is higher than several hundred hours all toll.

I am not impressed with your alleged study of my post. I have said that there was a conspiracy in my view more than any one else on these forums. This ranges from my belief that Badge Man is real - to Gordon Arnold being correct - to believing Ed Hoffman and what he witnessed - to Connally being wounded through the chest at a time that his right wrist was too high in the air to account for one bullet causing all of his wounds. I believe that a shot was fired from the location of the Hat Man location and have argued in support of that position more times than I can count. I believe the autopsy photos do not depict the truth about what the Dallas doctors described pertaining to the avulsion to the back of the President's head. Anyone who says after reading my countless post concerning these conclusions that I openly hold that will then state that I am a LNr is ignorant of the data available to the contrary or is aware of it and merely spreading disinformation for their own agenda. To have so grossly misstated my position and to assume that I am a LN supporter now makes me wonder just what was your purpose for starting a thread making claims that you knew or should have known to be totally false. I do however understand your not liking my responses for anyone who has misstated the record as you have concerning my position on the assassination ... they will not be a fan of mine and I see that as a good thing.

And if it appears that because I do not support poorly thought-out alteration claims that I am then a LN supporter, then a list of other conspiracy believers like Groden, Conway, Simkin, Healy and the list goes on must also be LNrs in your view.

Respectably,

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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Bill,

You can lead a horse to water, but if you have to drown them to get them to drink, you are still left afoot.

Do not allow yourself to be bogged down by foolishness, as it is so easy to do.

Oh yea, something my grandfather used to say comes to mind.

"Never argue with a fool, after awhile folks watching wont be able to tell the difference."

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Bill:

May I ask...Do you believe in any alterations..

Thanks....

B.....

Hi B,

As I thought was stated in my previous response, "I believe the autopsy photos do not depict the truth about what the Dallas doctors described pertaining to the avulsion to the back of the President's head." I do believe that something doesn't seem right about the Backyard photos of what is alleged to be Oswald holding a rifle. That doesn't mean that I am correct, but from my own limited observations and experience ... I find them suspect.

I wish alteration of the assassination images was true for I would as happy as anyone to expose such deceit, however I have reviewed the alteration claims made to date and have found them to be unfounded based on my observations. Because of that reason, I have found it somewhat suspicious that those who are making such earth-shattering claims seem to have done nothing to have them expertly evaluated for no other reason that to validate their claims.

Bill Miller

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correct that: "wisdom wins the day, most of the time!"

David, Its a shame that you never seem to contribute to any wisdom being offered. Instead we get garbage like these remarks of yours taken from this forum ...

"Actually Eugene a few of us think he's vieing for a position at the TSBD! Imagine that, if you will. I graciously noted to Bill Miller some time ago, that I'd write him a letter of recommendation concerning his graphics and composing abilities. I haven't heard back, yet. [sigh]

Also, a few years back I told Bill I 'd recommend him for a job with ADOBE (you know, the Photoshop folks), I did some on-camera work with John Warnock, CEO and founder Adobe, Inc., way back in the early Adobe ILLUSTRATOR (Adobe's first image software package) days, what 20 years ago, maybe more.... I could hook him up, alas -- he refused! My good will has run the limit, and I see yours has too!

KUTGW!

David Healy

"

just the facts son, just the FACTS! So run along, do something constructive, make a .gif or something... Seeya round the hood, Champ!

Been going on for years... neither can help his-self. Some think they've never been asked to write a article, perhaps its simple jealousy? Some think its more serious, unrelated to JFK assassination research, a defect of character, if you will.

Does Jack have a right to be cautious and/or return slights. Of course he does, I suspect he's the only JFK researcher posting to this board that has been physically attacked (while he slept), stabbed multiple times and nearly died from same assault (related to his research, eh? Who knows!)....

post the proof -- Miller's phone call doesn't cut it, nor is it proof here or anywhere else, champ! Just another Lone Nut opinion.... So, how do YOU know the top of the MC windshield is 58" off the ground in the Moorman 5?

We've the BEST (Costella's) of the worst Z-film/frames, you're correct! When one realizes there are (6th Floor Museum?) 35mm slides or 4x5 trannies taken of Z-film frames, access to those either sets, with in-camera Zapruder film ccomparison and confirmation would get us well on down the road...

Measure what, champ? The actual windscreen as it was on the actual limo escort motorcyle on 11/23/63...? Where, when, who was there (when you measured the attached windshield), and a verifiable affidavit with your measurements/ findings, complete with DPD motorcycle ID & Registration number. AND a DPD statement stating that yes indeed, the motorcyle windscreen you measured was from that very motorcycle displayed in Moorman 5 photo, left rear limo position adjacent to Elm Street north curbing (and in DP that day). Just post the evidence, big guy! No time for nonsense and/or opinions.

If you can't post Lamson's measurements-evidence w/affidavit there's nothing to talk to you about. I could care less if Harley of Harley-Davidson told you anything... somebody told me so-so, I posted on so many forums.... yadada, yadada -- nonsense, doesn't prove a damn thing.... Just post your proof with affidavit, that the left rear motorcyle cop closet to the north curb of Elm Street as depicted in the Moorman 5 photo, that to the top of THAT windscreen is 58" from the street surface.

Stay on point, Bill, you can't deal with two lines of thought at the same time...

sharing an TSBD office these day's? LMAO? btw, Why don't you ask Gary Mack about Badgeman, he's the co-creator of Badgeman, who better to ask, than the TSBD museum curator?

just post the 58" evidence Craigster -- regarding your "rabid dog" comment; you do indeed have a magnificent imagination just like most of your postings -- there's no need for hot wind, Craigster, just your proof, please. If you can't post it, you ain't got it...

Those NASA photo kids must be handing you your hat, again?

ouch..... oh-wee LMAO, you know we CT's don't trust you Lone Nutter any further than we can throw your sorry asses.....

Again, if you can't post your proof, you don't have PROOF, period! 53", 58" 64" or higher which is it? Show us the methodolgy, documentation and verification, till then your claims are empty words, like nearly everything you post...

Not until THEN, when it comes to the case related pictorial evidence, you are irrelevant.

Seeya around the hood, champ!"

But there was this one time that you were forced to actually say something that was worth reading and it went like this ....

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...c=5959&st=0

Post #8

David Healy: "Of course there's NO proof of film alteration, something I've stated for years"

Edited by Bill Miller
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I am young and not as smart as you.....and I believe that(lol....seriously).....I read and do not post but what I recognize is that you are always saying you talked with gary mack and have visited DP...... I have visited DP too....big deal.....one thing I have to say and one question.......DP is such a small place....tiny actually....and on a huge INCLINE that no one understands unless you have been there........how could pretty much everyone say the repeated shots came from the knoll??......I am of the assumption you are a LN person?.....I am not.....but your posts are very tiring....does that make sense.......thanks and good luck in your endeaver?

I think one should not just visit Dealey Plaza, but take the photographic record with them and spend as much time as possible studying the geography and the angles involved. I have stayed as long as nine days at a time while putting in 5 to 8 hours a day. While I have not counted my hours spent testing the assassination images, I am certain that it is higher than several hundred hours all toll.

I am not impressed with your alleged study of my post. I have said that there was a conspiracy in my view more than any one else on these forums. This ranges from my belief that Badge Man is real - to Gordon Arnold being correct - to believing Ed Hoffman and what he witnessed - to Connally being wounded through the chest at a time that his right wrist was too high in the air to account for one bullet causing all of his wounds. I believe that a shot was fired from the location of the Hat Man location and have argued in support of that position more times than I can count. I believe the autopsy photos do not depict the truth about what the Dallas doctors described pertaining to the avulsion to the back of the President's head. [...]

Respectably,

Bill Miller

___________________________________________

Bill,

In my humble opinion this is your best post so far.

It does get confusing trying to follow yours and Duncan's and "Smile's" arguments against each other (i.e. you versus them and vice versa) on any given thread, and it is rather time consuming and a bit frustrating as well. After reading your post, I now know what you believe in and can go back and read those earlier "Bill-Duncan-Smiles" threads and they will make more sense to me. My only suggestion is that you try to be a little bit less defensive-- you don't have to call anyone a fool or foolish or say that somebody writes garbage, etc. No need to bring yourself down to your opponents' levels-- you only demean yourself by doing so. (Most of us can detect overt silliness and/or malodorous refuse, etc, by ourselves....) FWIW.

Thanks,

--Thomas

___________________________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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I don't know about anyone else but after a hard-days-work putting back endless documents and posts about the JFK assassination, I like to kick back with some Healy/Miller exchange. One must admit there is a little Ignatius J. Reilly in Bill Miller, if one is familiar with the literary character.

Otto.

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I think one should not just visit Dealey Plaza, but take the photographic record with them and spend as much time as possible studying the geography and the angles involved. I have stayed as long as nine days at a time while putting in 5 to 8 hours a day. While I have not counted my hours spent testing the assassination images, I am certain that it is higher than several hundred hours all toll.

I am not impressed with your alleged study of my post. I have said that there was a conspiracy in my view more than any one else on these forums. This ranges from my belief that Badge Man is real - to Gordon Arnold being correct - to believing Ed Hoffman and what he witnessed - to Connally being wounded through the chest at a time that his right wrist was too high in the air to account for one bullet causing all of his wounds. I believe that a shot was fired from the location of the Hat Man location and have argued in support of that position more times than I can count. I believe the autopsy photos do not depict the truth about what the Dallas doctors described pertaining to the avulsion to the back of the President's head. [...]

Respectably,

Bill Miller

___________________________________________

Bill,

In my humble opinion this is your best post so far.

It does get confusing trying to follow yours and Duncan's and "Smile's" arguments against each other (i.e. you versus them and vice versa) on any given thread, and it is rather time consuming and a bit frustrating as well. After reading your post, I now know what you believe in and can go back and read those earlier "Bill-Duncan-Smiles" threads and they will make more sense to me. My only suggestion is that you try to be a little bit less defensive-- you don't have to call anyone a fool or foolish or say that somebody writes garbage, etc. No need to bring yourself down to your opponents' levels-- you only demean yourself by doing so. (Most of us can detect overt silliness and/or malodorous refuse, etc, by ourselves....) FWIW.

Thanks,

--Thomas

___________________________________________

Thanks, Tom. It is a good thing to debate and test the evidence and I for one welcome it. Disagreeing with someone doesn't make them a fool, but I can feel that their opinion is foolish based on their presentation of it. Many times like with the alteration debate ... it isn't about the evidence with these people, but rather its presented with a cult-like mentality that can be very misleading to anyone who doesn't know better. I challenge that position, not because I think you and others cannot see the flaws in it, but rather to show those who are not as familiar with the photographic record to see how these claims come about. There are students that come to these forums to research the assassination and I think it is important to point out how easy it is to get taken in on a conspiracy or lone assassin claim by not taking all the available evidence and weighing it against the other. These alteration claims for instance remind me of a magicians trick where they attempt to divert your attention away from reality so to give the illusion that they have somehow done something magical. It gets very frustrating when watching these sort of things going on. The photographic record intrigues a lot of people because photos are something we all can relate to. However, misreading them, not knowing their history, or not knowing how to cross reference them does not constitute conspiracy. (smile~)

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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'Bill Miller' dronned

[...]

Thanks, Tom. It is a good thing to debate and test the evidence and I for one welcome it. Disagreeing with someone doesn't make them a fool, but I can feel that their opinion is foolish based on their presentation of it. Many times like with the alteration debate ... it isn't about the evidence with these people, but rather its presented with a cult-like mentality that can be very misleading to anyone who doesn't know better.

dgh: and you know better? praytell your qualifications supporting your contention your a "photo analyst? (as old Evan would say: "sounds like a fair challenge", eh? ***

I challenge that position, not because I think you and others cannot see the flaws in it, but rather to show those who are not as familiar with the photographic record to see how these claims come about.

dgh: excellent disinfo tactic, been used for years***

There are students that come to these forums to research the assassination and I think it is important to point out how easy it is to get taken in on a conspiracy or lone assassin claim by not taking all the available evidence and weighing it against the other.

dgh: now you're protecting students for what? Up to 90% of the USofA believes JFK was murdered through a conspiracy.. the rest of the known world KNOWS a conspiracy murdered JFK, so what are you protecting students from? Sounds like a PR job for the City of Dallas***

These alteration claims for instance remind me of a magicians trick where they attempt to divert your attention away from reality so to give the illusion that they have somehow done something magical.

dgh: ROFLMFAO, just good old research William Miller me-boy.... and you're qualifications for photo research is what again? ***

It gets very frustrating when watching these sort of things going on.

dgh: murder is a frustrating gig, there ole Bill..... getting to the bottom of one, moreso. As they say "gird those loins then press on" ***

The photographic record intrigues a lot of people because photos are something we all can relate to. However, misreading them, not knowing their history, or not knowing how to cross reference them does not constitute conspiracy. (smile~)

dgh: "we all relate to"? What are you going on about? -- Re the above, I suspect that'll impress Gary Mack..... Certainly full of yourself, eh? ****

Bill

Edited by David G. Healy
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[...]

[...] I have said that there was a conspiracy in my view more than any one else on these forums. This ranges from my belief that Badge Man is real - to Gordon Arnold being correct - to believing Ed Hoffman and what he witnessed - to Connally being wounded through the chest at a time that his right wrist was too high in the air to account for one bullet causing all of his wounds. I believe that a shot was fired from the location of the Hat Man location and have argued in support of that position more times than I can count. I believe the autopsy photos do not depict the truth about what the Dallas doctors described pertaining to the avulsion to the back of the President's head. [...}

Respectably,

Bill Miller

___________________________________________

Bill,

Thanks.

--Thomas

___________________________________________

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