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I looked for a thread on Michael Paine and couldn't find any specific to him so I thought I'd start one.

I was also quite startled to find I am a source for Michael Paine's Wiki page, another good reason not to cite Wiki as a reliable source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Paine_(engineer)

There's more to Michael Paine than meets the eye.

He certainly deserves his own thread.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKpaineM.htm

BK

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Okay,

Here are my Top Ten Questions for Michael Paine.

1) After leaving Harvard, MP transfered to a Quaker college in suburban Philadelphia, when he met Ruth Hyde Paine at a folk dance session. Thanks to MP's mother's husband, Arthur Young, MP gets a job in research and development at Bell Helicopter in Texas. What promoped the move from Philly to Dallas?

2) Michael Paine told the WC that he didn't know Oswald had a rifle, but later he said that he saw the photo of Oswald with rifle in backyard when he picked up Oswald at his apartment to take him home for dinner, early in their association. What's up with that?

3) The German Minox spy camera, previously attributed to belonging to Oswald, has been claimed by MP as his own. If so, then he can explain the photos and why it was entered into evidence.

4) Michael Paine's father was co-founger of the Trotskite Party in USA, yet when Michael met Oswald, who claimed to be not just a communist but a Trotskite, MP didn't bother to impress Oswald with the fact his father was a co-founder of the Trotskite Party USA. Why not?

5) Michael Paine's superior at Bell Helicoper was former Nazi General Dornberger, who worked on the V2 rocket program and became part of Operation Paperclip.

6) MP took Oswald to the American Civil Liberties meeting, along with another friend of MP who left MP and LHO and went to Jack Ruby's Carousel Club afterwards.

7) MP's mother, Ruth Forges Paine Young, was best friends with Mary Bancoft, and accompanied Bancroft on a steamship trip to Europe on which Bancroft met her husband, a Swiss businessman, which put Bancroft in position of becoming one of Alan Dulles' most important agents involved in Operation Sunrise (German Surrender) and an assassination attempt against Hitler. How come it never came out that the mother of the chief patron of the accused assassin was best friends with the mistress and agent of Warren Commissioner Dulles?

8) What was up with the conversation between MP and his wife in which they agree that Oswald wasn't responsible and they knew who was? See:: Considence or Conspiracy (Festerwald, Ewing)

9) What's with the cars? MP is said to have encouraged Oswald to drive, and showed him how he could buy a car for a few hundred bucks and may have even purchased a car for Oswald at the time of the assassination.

10) Then there's the station wagon, the car that transported the alledged assassination weapon from Dallas to New Orleans and back again. Who loaded the car and how come nobody noticed there was a rifle there?

Anyway, there's my top ten questions for Micahel Paine. BK

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Okay,

Here are my Top Ten Questions for Michael Paine.

1) After leaving Harvard, MP transfered to a Quaker college in suburban Philadelphia, when he met Ruth Hyde Paine at a folk dance session. Thanks to MP's mother's husband, Arthur Young, MP gets a job in research and development at Bell Helicopter in Texas. What promoped the move from Philly to Dallas?

2) Michael Paine told the WC that he didn't know Oswald had a rifle, but later he said that he saw the photo of Oswald with rifle in backyard when he picked up Oswald at his apartment to take him home for dinner, early in their association. What's up with that?

3) The German Minox spy camera, previously attributed to belonging to Oswald, has been claimed by MP as his own. If so, then he can explain the photos and why it was entered into evidence.

4) Michael Paine's father was co-founger of the Trotskite Party in USA, yet when Michael met Oswald, who claimed to be not just a communist but a Trotskite, MP didn't bother to impress Oswald with the fact his father was a co-founder of the Trotskite Party USA. Why not?

5) Michael Paine's superior at Bell Helicoper was former Nazi General Dornberger, who worked on the V2 rocket program and became part of Operation Paperclip.

6) MP took Oswald to the American Civil Liberties meeting, along with another friend of MP who left MP and LHO and went to Jack Ruby's Carousel Club afterwards.

7) MP's mother, Ruth Forges Paine Young, was best friends with Mary Bancoft, and accompanied Bancroft on a steamship trip to Europe on which Bancroft met her husband, a Swiss businessman, which put Bancroft in position of becoming one of Alan Dulles' most important agents involved in Operation Sunrise (German Surrender) and an assassination attempt against Hitler. How come it never came out that the mother of the chief patron of the accused assassin was best friends with the mistress and agent of Warren Commissioner Dulles?

8) What was up with the conversation between MP and his wife in which they agree that Oswald wasn't responsible and they knew who was? See:: Considence or Conspiracy (Festerwald, Ewing)

9) What's with the cars? MP is said to have encouraged Oswald to drive, and showed him how he could buy a car for a few hundred bucks and may have even purchased a car for Oswald at the time of the assassination.

10) Then there's the station wagon, the car that transported the alledged assassination weapon from Dallas to New Orleans and back again. Who loaded the car and how come nobody noticed there was a rifle there?

Anyway, there's my top ten questions for Micahel Paine. BK

Bill, after four years a there's been no reply to your post. Yet I'm beginning to think that Michael Paine was far more important to the JFK assassination than generally admitted.

Not that I believe Paine was involved in any JFK plot -- but I believe that Michael Paine had more information than the Warren Commission was willing to withdraw from him.

I don't put any stock in Paine's family past -- his father's Trotsky position or his connections with Bell Helicopter. That is all trivial in my opinion.

What are most vital in Paine's eye-witness account are his days with Oswald in early 1963. I believe those early days of 1963 set Oswald in motion for the remainder of 1963. There were three major male influences on Lee Harvey Oswald in early 1963, namely, George De Mohrenschildt, Voikmar Schmidt and Michael Paine.

I believe they all influenced Oswald in a direction that Oswald himself -- on his own -- would never have chosen; namely, a burning hatred for ex-General Edwin Walker. DeMohrenschilt, Schmidt and Paine all had one thing in common, IMHO, namely, their hatred for General Walker.

Only a few months before, in the morning news of 1 October 1962, the world read about the bloody riots at Ole Miss University, in which hundreds were wounded and two were killed. The leader, ex-General Edwin Walker, led white-supremacist forces of tremendous violence to prevent one Black student, James Meredith, from legally registering for class. JFK had had to send thousands of troops to restore peace.

On that day, furthermore, JFK and RFK saw to it that General Walker was committed to an insane asylum. However, on that same day, the ACLU and psychiatrist Thomas Szasz erupted in a screaming protest, charging JFK and RFK with political psychiatry -- a heinous act of tyranny. In only five more days General Walker would be back in Dallas, where an adoring crowd met him at Love Field, waving Confederate flags and a banner that read, "Walker for President in '64.' www.pet880.com

When Walker's attorneys, Robert Morris and Clyde Watts, presented Walker's case before a Grand Jury in Mississippi, they plied a brilliant strategy -- they would downplay the riots themselves, and concentrate on the question of whether Walker insane. If Walker was insane -- he would be guilty. If Walker was sane, then JFK and RFK were wrong, and Walker would be innocent. The Grand Jury bought the ruse. Psychiatrists on both sides of the issue testified endlessly, and the Grand Jury concluded that Walker was sane. Walker was acquitted in January, 1963. The bloody riots themselves were hardly at issue. Brilliant defense.

But back in Dallas, among the liberals like DeMohrenschilt, Schmidt and Paine, this was unbearable. A white-supremacist like Walker could lead a bloody insurrection against the USA and then walk free, back in Dallas, just down the street. This was too much for them to bear.

In January, 1963, George De Mohrenschildt was baby-sitting Lee Harvey Oswald, and introducing him to his friends around Dallas. One friend, an engineer, Volkmar Schmidt, was also the son of two psychiatrists. As a child he learned quite a few tricks of psychology. DeMohrenschilt, Schmidt and Paine all agreed on one thing -- Oswald's complaints against JFK were irritating. Oswald would continually complain that JFK betrayed the Cuban Exiles at the Bay of Pigs.

So, Volkmar Schmidt got an idea. He would use a pscyhological technique on Oswald, and "transfer" Oswald's hatred toward JFK from JFK onto General Walker. At a party at which many were presnt, and after two hours of psychological manipulation, Lee Harvey Oswald emerged at the end of that party with a new mission -- to kill ex-General Edwin A. Walker.

The rest of the timeline is obvious after this January party. Oswald bought weapons, had Marina snap one picture of himself with his weapons, made fake variations of this photo at his work at JCS, got fired for that, but continued to take photographs of Walker's house, back yard and alley. But the important point for this thread is that Michael Paine knew far more about Oswald's state of mind regarding General Walker than the Warren Commission was willing to ask him.

Michael Paine, IMHO, knew about DeMohrenschildt and Volkmar Schmidt. Michael Paine knew about the re-conditioning of Lee Harvey Oswald. Michael Paine drove Oswald to Walker's US Day rally on 23 October 1963 to plan heckling Adlai Stevenson the very next night in the very same auditorium. (Michael Paine denied going to that rally, saying that he went to some other meeting down the street.)

My questions to Michael Paine are fewer. I would like to know:

(1) How closely did Michael Paine follow the activities of General Walker in late 1962 and early 1963?

(2) Where were Michael Paine's opinions about General Walker in late 1962 and early 1963?

(3) How closely did Michaal Paine follow the activities of Volkmar Schmidt upon Lee Harvey Oswald in early 1963?

(4) What was Michael Paine's opinion about Volkmark Schmidt in early 1963?

(5) Did Michael Paine suggest any encouragement, either by word or look or glance, to Oswald regarding hatred of Walker?

It's my theory, Bill, that Oswald was manipulated by DeMohrenschildt, Schmidt and Paine in early 1963, and this reckless act of Oswald (and at least one other shooter) trying to kill Walkre on 10 April 1963 -- was the turning point in Oswald's life. It ruined his chances of ever attaining a successful CIA or FBI career.

I believe this turning point is something that Michael Paine knows more about -- and the Warren Commission manipulated matters cleverly to discourage Paine from telling what he knew about Volkmar Schmidt.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Okay,

Here are my Top Ten Questions for Michael Paine.

1) After leaving Harvard, MP transfered to a Quaker college in suburban Philadelphia, when he met Ruth Hyde Paine at a folk dance session. Thanks to MP's mother's husband, Arthur Young, MP gets a job in research and development at Bell Helicopter in Texas. What promoped the move from Philly to Dallas?

2) Michael Paine told the WC that he didn't know Oswald had a rifle, but later he said that he saw the photo of Oswald with rifle in backyard when he picked up Oswald at his apartment to take him home for dinner, early in their association. What's up with that?

3) The German Minox spy camera, previously attributed to belonging to Oswald, has been claimed by MP as his own. If so, then he can explain the photos and why it was entered into evidence.

4) Michael Paine's father was co-founger of the Trotskite Party in USA, yet when Michael met Oswald, who claimed to be not just a communist but a Trotskite, MP didn't bother to impress Oswald with the fact his father was a co-founder of the Trotskite Party USA. Why not?

5) Michael Paine's superior at Bell Helicoper was former Nazi General Dornberger, who worked on the V2 rocket program and became part of Operation Paperclip.

6) MP took Oswald to the American Civil Liberties meeting, along with another friend of MP who left MP and LHO and went to Jack Ruby's Carousel Club afterwards.

7) MP's mother, Ruth Forges Paine Young, was best friends with Mary Bancoft, and accompanied Bancroft on a steamship trip to Europe on which Bancroft met her husband, a Swiss businessman, which put Bancroft in position of becoming one of Alan Dulles' most important agents involved in Operation Sunrise (German Surrender) and an assassination attempt against Hitler. How come it never came out that the mother of the chief patron of the accused assassin was best friends with the mistress and agent of Warren Commissioner Dulles?

8) What was up with the conversation between MP and his wife in which they agree that Oswald wasn't responsible and they knew who was? See:: Considence or Conspiracy (Festerwald, Ewing)

9) What's with the cars? MP is said to have encouraged Oswald to drive, and showed him how he could buy a car for a few hundred bucks and may have even purchased a car for Oswald at the time of the assassination.

10) Then there's the station wagon, the car that transported the alledged assassination weapon from Dallas to New Orleans and back again. Who loaded the car and how come nobody noticed there was a rifle there?

Anyway, there's my top ten questions for Micahel Paine. BK

Bill, after four years a there's been no reply to your post. Yet I'm beginning to think that Michael Paine was far more important to the JFK assassination than generally admitted.

Not that I believe Paine was involved in any JFK plot -- but I believe that Michael Paine had more information than the Warren Commission was willing to withdraw from him.

I don't put any stock in Paine's family past -- his father's Trotsy position or his connections with Bell Helicopter. That is trivial in my opinion.

What are most vital in Paine's eye-witness account are his days with Oswald in early 1963. I believe those early days of 1963 set Oswald in motion for the remainder of 1963. There were three major male influences on Lee Harvey Oswald in early 1963, namely, George De Mohrenschildt, Voikmar Schmidt and Michael Paine.

I believe they all influenced Oswald in a direction that Oswald himself -- on his own -- would never have chosen; namely, a burning hatred for ex-General Edwin Walker. DeMohrenschilt, Schmidt and Paine all had one thing in common, IMHO, namely, their hatred for General Walker.

Only a few months before, in the morning news of 1 October 1962, the world read about the bloody riots at Ole Miss University, in which hundreds were wounded and two were killed. The leader, ex-General Edwin Walker, led white-supremacist forces of tremendous violence to prevent one Black student, James Meredith, from legally registering for class. JFK had had to send thousands of troops to restore peace.

On that day, furthermore, JFK and RFK saw to it that General Walker was committed to an insane asylum. However, on that same day, the ACLU and psychiatrist Thomas Szasz erupted in a screaming protest, charging JFK and RFK with political psychiatry -- a heinous act of tyranny. In only five more days General Walker would be back in Dallas, where an adoring crowd met him at Love Field, waving Confederate flags and a banner that read, "Walker for President in '64.' www.pet880.com

When Walker's attorneys, Robert Morris and Clyde Watts, presented Walker's case before a Grand Jury in Mississippi, they plied a brilliant strategy -- they would downplay the riots themselves, and concentrate on the question of whether Walker insane. If Walker was insane -- he would be guilty. If Walker was sane, then JFK and RFK were wrong, and Walker would be innocent. The Grand Jury bought the ruse. Psychiatrists on both sides of the issue testified endlessly, and the Grand Jury concluded that Walker was sane. Walker was acquitted in January, 1963. The bloody riots themselves were hardly at issue. Brilliant defense.

But back in Dallas, among the liberals like DeMohrenschilt, Schmidt and Paine, this was unbearable. A white-supremacist like Walker could lead a bloody insurrection against the USA and then walk free, back in Dallas, just down the street. This was too much for them to bear.

In January, 1963, George De Mohrenschildt was baby-sitting Lee Harvey Oswald, and introducing him to his friends around Dallas. One friend, an engineer, Volkmar Schmidt, was also the son of two psychiatrists. As a child he learned quite a few tricks of psychology. DeMohrenschilt, Schmidt and Paine all agreed on one thing -- Oswald's complaints against JFK were irritating. Oswald would continually complain that JFK betrayed the Cuban Exiles at the Bay of Pigs.

So, Volkmar Schmidt got an idea. He would use a pscyhological technique on Oswald, and "transfer" Oswald's hatred toward JFK from JFK onto General Walker. At a party at which many were presnt, and after two hours of psychological manipulation, Lee Harvey Oswald emerged at the end of that party with a new mission -- to kill ex-General Edwin A. Walker.

The rest of the timeline is obvious after this January party. Oswald bought weapons, had Marina snap one picture of himself with his weapons, made fake variations of this photo at his work at JCS, got fired for that, but continued to take photographs of Walker's house, back yard and alley. But the important point for this thread is that Michael Paine knew far more about Oswald's state of mind regarding General Walker than the Warren Commission was willing to ask him.

Michael Paine, IMHO, knew about DeMohrenschildt and Volkmar Schmidt. Michael Paine knew about the re-conditioning of Lee Harvey Oswald. Michael Paine drove Oswald to Walker's US Day rally on 23 October 1963 to plan heckling Adlai Stevenson the very next night in the very same auditorium. (Michael Paine denied going to that rally, saying that he went to some other meeting down the street.)

My questions to Michael Paine are fewer. I would like to know:

(1) How closely did Michael Paine follow the activities of General Walker in late 1962 and early 1963?

(2) Where were Michael Paine's opinions about General Walker in late 1962 and early 1963?

(3) How closely did Michaal Paine follow the activities of Volkmar Schmidt upon Lee Harvey Oswald in early 1963?

(4) What was Michael Paine's opinion about Volkmark Schmidt in early 1963?

(5) Did Michael Paine suggest any encouragement, either by word or look or glance, to Oswald regarding hatred of Walker?

It's my theory, Bill, that Oswald was manipulated by DeMohrenschildt, Schmidt and Paine in early 1963, and this reckless act of Oswald (and at least one other shooter) trying to kill Walkre on 10 April 1963 -- was the turning point in Oswald's life. It ruined his chances of ever attaining a successful CIA or FBI career.

I believe this turning point is something that Michael Paine knows more about -- and the Warren Commission manipulated matters cleverly to discourage Paine from telling what he knew about Volkmar Schmidt.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Hi Paul, I too think Michael Paine and Volkmar Schmidt are more important than they were considered by the official investigations, and that there is a lot more too both men.

As for Michael Paine, check out this report on Roy Frankhouser,

JFKCountercoup2: The Complete File on Roy Frankhouser

I interviewed Volkmar Schmidt in 1995

JFKcountercoup: Volkmar Schmidt Interview

And I don't think the Dealy Plaza operation was a covert op put together by a rogue CIA, ex-military or Mafia network but was directly connected to the Pentagon office that was studying the Valkyrie Plot on September 24 1963 and the idea that Volkmar Schmidt had mentioned to Oswald in February 1963. I see it as the same plot, not different ones.

JFKCountercoup2: Valkyrie at Dealey Plaza - UPDATED

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) After leaving Harvard, MP transfered to a Quaker college in suburban Philadelphia, when he met Ruth Hyde Paine at a folk dance session. Thanks to MP's mother's husband, Arthur Young, MP gets a job in research and development at Bell Helicopter in Texas. What promoped the move from Philly to Dallas?

YEAH, but the CABOTS (MP Cabot on both sides of his family) controlled First National Bank of Boston ,that was head investor in TEXTRON that controlled Bell Helicopter. Textron lobbied the Pentagon in 1958 for more use of the helicopter in war....Vietnam ??

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Hi Paul, I too think Michael Paine and Volkmar Schmidt are more important than they were considered by the official investigations, and that there is a lot more too both men.

As for Michael Paine, check out this report on Roy Frankhouser,

JFKCountercoup2: The Complete File on Roy Frankhouser

I interviewed Volkmar Schmidt in 1995

JFKcountercoup: Volkmar Schmidt Interview

And I don't think the Dealy Plaza operation was a covert op put together by a rogue CIA, ex-military or Mafia network but was directly connected to the Pentagon office that was studying the Valkyrie Plot on September 24 1963 and the idea that Volkmar Schmidt had mentioned to Oswald in February 1963. I see it as the same plot, not different ones.

JFKCountercoup2: Valkyrie at Dealey Plaza - UPDATED

Bill, that link about Roy Frankhauser was amusing reading. I especially enjoyed the expose of SWP leader Lyndon LaRouche and his surprising right-wing, Antisemitic side, and the fact that he hired this compulsive xxxx and KKK fanatic, Roy Frankhauser, as a political consultant.

Regarding Frankhauser's story, I agree with your assessment -- most of it is deception -- and perhaps Frankhauser (like LaRouche) was more than a little bit wacky. Yet I also agree that there may be some gems to be mined in that coal pit. After all, there is mounting evidence that the KKK was out for JFK, as were the Minutemen -- that is, the extreme right were on the warpath over the Civil Rights issue.

As for the left-wing, they were the chosen scape-goat -- everything was to be blamed on them, so spying on them was critical. Frankhauser was considered wacky by the FBI and CIA because he couldn't pick a story and stick to it. But the clues were there.

As for your interview of Volkmar Schmidt in 1995, Bill, I have long considered it to be one of the most important interviews of the past fifty years. IMHO, once the whole truth about the JFK assassination is finally revealed (perhaps in 2039) your interview with Volkmar Schmidt will become one of the most cited interviews of the 20th century.

I truly believe the major clues to resolve the JFK assassination are to be found in your interview with Schmidt, when combined with George De Mohrenschildt's booklet, I'm A Patsy! I'm A Patsy!, which cites the same party but deliberately changes Schmidt's name (and nationality)..

Finally, although we do agree that the JFK assassination was never a covert operation of the CIA, the ex-military or the Mafia, we still disagree on the identity of the ground-crew and their direct leaders.

You're currently interested in the Pentagon office that on 24 September 1963 studied the Valkyrie Plot (the 1944 plot to kill Hitler), while I am currently interested in ex-General Edwin Walker and his underestimated capabilities and connections.

That said, I do find it intriguing that Volkmar Schmidt specifically mentioned the Valkyrie Plot to Oswald in February 1963. Yet since Volkmar's own family in Germany was fairly close to the Valkyrie Plot, it is not surprising that he would refer to it. Still, the context in which Volkmar spoke was almost entirely about ex-General Edwin Walker. Walker is still the key, IMHO.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Lyn Marcus a leader of the SWP. lol

Finally, although we do agree that the JFK assassination was never a covert operation of the CIA, the ex-military or the Mafia, we still disagree on the identity of the ground-crew and their direct leaders.

You're currently interested in the Pentagon office that on 24 September 1963 studied the Valkyrie Plot (the 1944 plot to kill Hitler), while I am currently interested in ex-General Edwin Walker and his underestimated capabilities and connections.

That said, I do find it intriguing that Volkmar Schmidt specifically mentioned the Valkyrie Plot to Oswald in February 1963. Yet since Volkmar's own family in Germany was fairly close to the Valkyrie Plot, it is not surprising that he would refer to it. Still, the context in which Volkmar spoke was almost entirely about ex-General Edwin Walker. Walker is still the key, IMHO.

?

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I think Rouge elements of the C.I.A were involved in the assasination like

David Phillips

James Jesus Angleton

E. Howard Hunt

David Sánchez Morales

William Harvey

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Finally, although we do agree that the JFK assassination was never a covert operation of the CIA, the ex-military or the Mafia, we still disagree on the identity of the ground-crew and their direct leaders...

That said, I do find it intriguing that Volkmar Schmidt specifically mentioned the Valkyrie Plot to Oswald in February 1963. Yet since Volkmar's own family in Germany was fairly close to the Valkyrie Plot, it is not surprising that he would refer to it. Still, the context in which Volkmar spoke was almost entirely about ex-General Edwin Walker. Walker is still the key, IMHO.

?

Oh, right, John, you did find a contradiction in my speed typing. When I thought of ex-military I thought of duly retired US Military men, such as those in the American Security Council. Ex-General Edwin Walker was an exception, however, because he did not associate with those conservative gentlemen.

Instead, ex-General Edwin Walker did not retire from the Army after 30 years of service, but he resigned, which is a hostile act. In fact, Walker was the only US General in the 20th century to resign from the Army.

In resigning Walker gave up his Military pension -- his only visible source of income. That all by itself was evidence of his recklessness.

Yet Walker was clearly encouraged and supported by rich people on the right (especially H.L. Hunt and Billy James Hargis, the self-made millionaire) who helped Walker get his start as a professional public speaker.

After Walker botched his campaign for Texas governor (paid for by Hunt) and then went berzerk at Ole Miss University (by causing a massive riot there on 30 September 1962 over the pending admission of their first Black student, James Meredith), Walker's income seemed threatened.

However, after a Mississippi Grand Jury acquitted Walker of all charges regarding the Ole Miss riots, Walker and his lawyers (Robert Morris and Clyde Watts) set up a system to sue every US newspaper that claimed Walker was guilty. If successful they would have won $35 million (which in today's dollars amounts to $350 million). After years of court trials ending in 1967, they finally won $3 million, but then Earl Warren found in favor of the Associated Press in their appeal, and overturned all their winnings.

By 1968 it was clear to Walker that he was going to be penniless -- so he began to beg the Army for his pension. Naturally, he had already signed a waiver of his pension in 1961, so the Army did not move quickly on this, but they finally relented and gave him his pension in 1982.

That's why I disassociate ex-General Walker from the legitimate ex-military, John. Walker was a weird exception.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Brigadiere General Watts

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Brigadiere General Watts

John, you're referring to Clyde Watts, I take it, who was Walker's lawyer at his Senate Subcommittee hearings in 1962, at Walker's Grand Jury hearings (along with Robert Morris) in Mississippi in 1962-1963, and at Walker's Warren Commission hearings in 1964.

They were very close, and they'd known each other a very long time. Walker was a West Point graduate (who graduated in the bottom 10% of his class). He might have met Clyde Watts in West Point. Otherwise, they probably met just before World War Two.

Walker and Watts thought they'd be multi-millionaires by suing A.P. for printing that Walker was the leader of riots at Ole Miss (which he certainly was). Watts and Morris (a former lawyer and aide for Senator Joseph McCarthy) brilliantly won over the Mississippi Grand Jury in the face of overwhelming evidence, convincing them to drop all charges against Walker. Their strategy was that since JFK and RFK had sent Walker to an insane asylum the day after the riots, the real question wasn't whether Walker led any riots; the real question was whether Walker was insane. They wasted hours of time parading a stream of psychiatrists through the Grand Jury, who of course couldn't agree on anything. Thus, Walker was acquitted.

However, Watts and Morris decided to parlay their Walker victory into millions of dollars, so they used that ridiculous "victory" to charge the Associated Press with libel -- for falsely printing that Walker was guilty as sin. From 1963-1967 they sued and sued, hoping for $35 million dollars in damages from various AP syndicates.

If they had been successful, then Walker would have richly repaid his lifelong friend, Clyde Watts, for keeping him out of prison. They won some and lost some here and there, but in the end, Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren ensured that all their time was totally wasted. They didn't get one dime.

So Justice was served on both Brigadiere Generals and their super-lawyer, Robert Morris.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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I think Rouge elements of the C.I.A were involved in the assasination like

David Phillips

James Jesus Angleton

E. Howard Hunt

David Sánchez Morales

William Harvey

Mark, FWIW, here's my impression on the involvement of these CIA figures:

1. David Atlee Phillips, CIA Chief of Cuban Operations, was seen with Lee Harvey Oswald in September of 1963 by a Cuban Exile warrior named Antonio Veciana, one of the leaders of Alpha 66. Phillips was a major player in the Cuban episode, so we should expect to find him in these proceedings. IMHO, Phillips knew much about what others were doing, and did comparatively little himself.

2. James Jesus Angleton, CIA Deputy Director of Counterintelligence, admitted that he played a role in the career of Lee Harvey Oswald by involving Oswald in a plot to kill Castro. Oswald got much information and many contacts from that involvement. Angelton denies sending Oswald after JFK, but he admits some guilt in building Oswald up to a specific point of power. IMHO, Angleton is telling the truth.

3. E. Howard Hunt was finally charged by Mark Lane (following Marita Lorenz) with buying illegal guns from Jack Ruby, Gerry Patrick Hemming and Frank Sturgis -- and Lee Harvey Oswald -- in early November, 1963. Hemming himself denied that he was in that caravan, and always held that Lorenz kept embellishing her story, which was partially true. IMHO, Hunt was involved in illegal arms trafficking -- but that in-itself is not proof of anything else.

4. David Sánchez Morales was a CIA operative who hated RFK as much as he hated Kruschchev. If hatred were proof of murder, then Morales would be guilty. But there were millions -- literally -- of people who hated the Kennedys. He wasn't in Dallas on the fateful day. If he was involved, then it was at a high level, as one of the many who nodded approval. IMHO, Morales was a man of action, one who preferred to pull the trigger, but he wasn't in Dallas.

5. William Harvey was famous at the end of WW2 in Germany for his famous underground tunnel to East Berlin. But he hated Castro so much that even during the Cuban Missile Crisis, against JFK's orders, Harvey continued to send small raiding parties to Cuba. RFK got so angry with Harvey that he banished him to a CIA office in Italy, where he drank himself to death. IMHO, Harvey's case is much like Morales' case -- if hatred was proof he'd be guilty. But the evidence on him is all circumstantial and speculative.

IMHO, a professional CIA man is not like some rogue CIA contractor who takes two-bit contracts on demand. He is educated and professional, and knows he himself is being watched even as he watches others. He is also loyal to his Commander in Chief, even if he hates the Commander's guts. The beauty of Democracy is that in four more years we could have another idiot in the White House -- but at the most, eight years. A mature man can tolerate that, as long as he can also resist with all his might. That's the fun of it. Why spoil the fun?

IMHO, it was lower-level, immature people who killed JFK. I believe the FBI and the CIA watched as the drama unfolded before their eyes. I also believe that the FBI and the CIA could have done more to prevent the tragedy -- yet the Kennedys made very few friends among the top brass. That doesn't mean the top brass went after him -- they wouldn't need to do that. All that is necessary for Evil to prosper is for Good men to look the other way and do nothing.

I believe that's exactly the role that the FBI and the CIA played in the JFK assassination.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Bill - I agree your interview with Volkmar Schmidt is important. To me it seems designed to implicate Oswald in the assassination. But since I don't think Oswald shot JFK I don't buy Schmidt's analysis of Oswald. If he put the idea in LHO's head to shoot Walker it could only have worked if LHO was sympathetic to the basic argument that Walker was dangerous, a possible future Fuhrer.. DeMohrenschildt didn't believe LHO was guilty of killing JFK, and like Marina he thought that LHO liked JFK. So I am ready to discount any reports that say that LHO was angry at JFK because he sympathized with Cuban exiles or with Castro.

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Bill - I agree your interview with Volkmar Schmidt is important. To me it seems designed to implicate Oswald in the assassination. But since I don't think Oswald shot JFK I don't buy Schmidt's analysis of Oswald. If he put the idea in LHO's head to shoot Walker it could only have worked if LHO was sympathetic to the basic argument that Walker was dangerous, a possible future Fuhrer.. DeMohrenschildt didn't believe LHO was guilty of killing JFK, and like Marina he thought that LHO liked JFK. So I am ready to discount any reports that say that LHO was angry at JFK because he sympathized with Cuban exiles or with Castro.

If I may interject here, Paul B., the proposition that Oswald was involved in the plot to kill ex-General Edwin Walker on 10 April 1963 is not necessarily any proof that Oswald was the "lone nut" who shot JFK.

While it is true that the Warren Commission spun the story in their own way, there are other interpretations of the same facts.

Actually, what Volkmar Schmidt's testimony really proves is that Oswald never acted alone in anything -- not in the JFK assassination and not in the Walker shooting. Oswald always had accomplices.

In Bill Kelly's interview, Volkmar Schmidt tacitly admitted that he was one of the accomplices of Oswald's shooting at Walker. We know there were more accomplices, too, since an eye-witness has two accomplices in one car, and possibly another accomplice in another car. On the previous day another witness saw two men spying on Walker's house and speeding away in car.

(George De Mohrenschildt was himself an accomplice in the plot to kill Walker, although he refused to admit it directly. The Volkmar Schmidt story is proof of George's guilt, since George encouraged Volkmar. George De Mohrenschildt did object to people putting all the blame on Oswald -- and the implication, IMHO, is that George actually blamed ex-General Edwin Walker. (Jack Ruby also suspected ex-General Edwin Walker of leading the plot to kill JFK.) If Walker was the JFK-plot leader, then he brilliantly designed the plan to blame it all on Oswald. Harry Dean offers evidence that this is true. Walker's plot would have involved his pal, Guy Banister and their paramilitary Minutemen, to frame Oswald as a Communist in the media in August, 1963. If so, then Walker got this idea on Easter Sunday, 1963, after Mrs. Voshinin told the FBI what George De Mohrenschildt told her about Lee Harvey Oswald.)

Oswald lied to Marina continually -- he lied to her when he said he shot at Walker alone, and that he took the bus and walked and ran and buried his rifle. Marina could only repeat the lies she heard -- she knew nothing else about that night (except that Oswald returned around midnight -- three hours after the shooting).

Before that night she knew that Oswald was spending his time with photographs of Walker's house -- that she knew -- but he never told her why he took those pictures. My point is that Oswald had accomplices even on those trips taking photographs of Walker's house.

So, Volkmar Schmidt's story doesn't confirm the Warren Commission conclusion of a lone nut -- on the contrary -- Schmidt contradicts the Warren Commission conclusion and confirms the HSCA conclusion that Oswald had accomplices.

I currently suspect that Michael Paine and Ruth Paine were also among those accomplices.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Paul T - I am trying to separate the shooting at Walker with the killing of JFK. I agree that LHO was not a loner. But doesn't Volkmar put the blame on Oswald for killing JFK by his psychological assessment of him? I find it very dishonest. If Oswald was who VS said he was he would have let the world know it, and that Oswald did not do, whether in his writings, or afterwards in police custody, or with a note for posterity. Nothing. Yes he believed in the possibility of a new social order and he wanted to play a part in it. But there is no evidence of self aggrandisement, no wish to be famous. He is imo the patsy, not the assassin. He was not part of the plot to kill the president, but was set up by the plotters, who may very well have been Walker and his buddies. Likewise if he was the patsy and not the killer we can look at the Paines as innocent of involvement in the plot to killl the president. Of course I know about all of the links between the Paines and the oligarchy, Dulles, etc, just like all of the connections of DeMohrenschildt. But all of them shared with Oswald a certain independant leftist idealist point of view. They were not imo secret rightists, infiltrators of the left, any more than Oswald was.

Paul - I know we have gone back and forth on this. I respect your point of view and the deep thought that went into it. You almost convinced me that Oswald was a phony leftist, a right winger at heart. But I find myself on the other side of this argument now. I think he was spying on them. His phony FPCC branch was part of that effort - a leftist masquerading as a leftist if you will. He tried to kill Walker and paid for it with his life and legacy as the murderer of a president.

I might add that I could be totally wrong about all of this.

Edited by Paul Brancato
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