For Robin--This is the "Education Forum"

[John Dolva]

A thought: if the usual FBI rated frame speed/rate of the windup camera is taken as the same for the whole film one may make a significant mistake. eg if at the start the frame rate is close to the rated speed then later the speed may have dropped so that a percieved frame removal may be reduced to 1/ 3 of a frame which brings it into an area of doubt that any frames have been excised. (Of course, if so, they may have still been altered in some way.) eg 18.6 x 5 = 93, 17.6 x 6 = 105.6.

Edited January 6, 2009 by John Dolva

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Due to the critical importance, I did not want to include this in with the remainder of the Cancellare photo, where it

merely gets lost in the crowd.

Computing distances based on these "angular" photographs is about like dealing with the "Law of Diminishing Returns".

However, the close proximity of James Altgens to the second yellow curb marking makes it not that difficult to

accurately place him on Elm St. in this as well as other photographs.

Provided of course that one has some reference of scale with which to work.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0047b.htm

Nope! Nothing here to work with.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z352.jpg

As any qualified "sniper" is aware. Some times, one must wait a long time until the target fully comes into view.

[John Dolva]

re bond pos.:That is the position of muchmore at time of headshot. in carefully looking at the film she appears to move at the start from about a meter or so to her right to the left to the position of bond. This is a pointer that Don's map is flawed. The poor drommer I have doesn't suffer from this. Ditto the location of the pedestal and wall. ie Z's position.

[Chris Davidson]

Due to the critical importance, I did not want to include this in with the remainder of the Cancellare photo, where it

merely gets lost in the crowd.

Computing distances based on these "angular" photographs is about like dealing with the "Law of Diminishing Returns".

However, the close proximity of James Altgens to the second yellow curb marking makes it not that difficult to

accurately place him on Elm St. in this as well as other photographs.

Provided of course that one has some reference of scale with which to work.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0047b.htm

Nope! Nothing here to work with.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z352.jpg

As any qualified "sniper" is aware. Some times, one must wait a long time until the target fully comes into view.

Tom,

The Hughes composite might be a little easier on the eyes (viewing angle) that is.

Also,

Do you know the distance from lightpost at left in animation, to first yellow curb mark just ahead of the red car, if the lightpost was on the south side, inline with the yellow curb marks?

thanks,

chris

P.S.

Compositing as much of the West plat you have provided me with Drommer, I get a distance of 20 Ft. from lightpost to first yellow mark.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Chris Davidson

[Frank Agbat]

A thought: if the usual FBI rated frame speed/rate of the windup camera is taken as the same for the whole film one may make a significant mistake. eg if at the start the frame rate is close to the rated speed then later the speed may have dropped so that a percieved frame removal may be reduced to 1/ 3 of a frame which brings it into an area of doubt that any frames have been excised. (Of course, if so, they may have still been altered in some way.) eg 18.6 x 5 = 93, 17.6 x 6 = 105.6.

John,

That is a valid point. The "famous FBI frame rate" for the Z-film (and the one I used for timing calculations, etc) is, admittedly, an *average* frame rate.

If I recall correctly, the frame rate on a full wind is actually a little below the rated average, then actually speeds up a bit as the spring winds out.

[Jack White]

Due to the critical importance, I did not want to include this in with the remainder of the Cancellare photo, where it

merely gets lost in the crowd.

Computing distances based on these "angular" photographs is about like dealing with the "Law of Diminishing Returns".

However, the close proximity of James Altgens to the second yellow curb marking makes it not that difficult to

accurately place him on Elm St. in this as well as other photographs.

Provided of course that one has some reference of scale with which to work.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0047b.htm

Nope! Nothing here to work with.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z352.jpg

Chris...what is the source of the color frames? I have never seen that.

Jack

As any qualified "sniper" is aware. Some times, one must wait a long time until the target fully comes into view.

Tom,

The Hughes composite might be a little easier on the eyes (viewing angle) that is.

Also,

Do you know the distance from lightpost at left in animation, to first yellow curb mark just ahead of the red car, if the lightpost was on the south side, inline with the yellow curb marks?

thanks,

chris

P.S.

Compositing as much of the West plat you have provided me with Drommer, I get a distance of 20 Ft. from lightpost to first yellow mark.

[Jack White]

Chris...what is the source of the color frames? I have never seen that.

Jack

[Robin Unger]

Chris...what is the source of the color frames? I have never seen that.

Jack

For Tom and Jack.

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/galle...onstruction.jpg

[Chris Davidson]

Chris...what is the source of the color frames? I have never seen that.

Jack

Jack,

From Robert Hughes.

I believe sometime after the assassination on 11-22-63.

Not from the pedestal.

chris

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Chris...what is the source of the color frames? I have never seen that.

Jack

For Tom and Jack.

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/galle...onstruction.jpg

Thanks Robin;

I have seen this photo, but can not recall as to whether or not it was downloaded into my computer when all went the way of the wisp or not.

It is of course added information due to a variety of background items which can be compared with the other SS run-through photographs.

Too bad that one does not have available all of the photographic evidence which the SS most assuredly would have

taken during their several day assassination re-enactment and survey work.

Prior to getting to the "mark-up" of the SS photo you have sent and questioned, I will continue to attempt to shed some

additional knowledge on what little I can.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/40/4076-001.gif

The SS photo of the drive-through is of course of interest. However, one may also want to give attention to the far right

lamp post and it's alignment with the background pergola.

With this, we now have the Bond#8 to Zapruder alignment, as well as the Zapruder to Bond alignment.

This photo also conveniently demonstrates the construction joint which runs just along the edge of the lamp post, as well

as that damage to the concrete sidewalk where installation/repair of the electrical lines has taken place.

An excellent cross-reference with other photographic evidence as well as giving the exact alignment and position of

JFK at:

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z272.jpg

Provided of course that one has a survey plat in which they can draw a straight alignment from the Z-position to the

Bond location. And which the WC survey plat most certainly has this ability for cross-reference and cross-check.

Next up!

As regards the numbers which have been hand-witten (and circled) on the SS photo's, which are meant to

represent impact points.

One might want to take a look at:

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter2b:thesecretservicesecrets

They may not learn a great deal in regards to the "answers", but at least they may derive a logical question or two.

One can always count on Pat to "ask questions". Just not that much which may actually be correct in any of his

own answers to these questions.

The circled numbers "2" & "3" in the center of Elm St. on the SS re-enactment photo's, have virtually nothing to do

with the SS survey and re-enactment.

These are an "after-the-fact" add in, in which Specter, Hoover, & Company have utilized to again pull the wool over

the eyes of those such as Pat, in making them believe that the Survey plat as identified within the WC:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0144b.htm

And as posted at the Dallas archives:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/40/4074-001.gif

Is the actual survey plat for the SS which was completed on 12/5/63.

IT IS NOT!

==========================================================================

Actually, all of this information helps somewhat in determination if "ole Tom", not unlike BUBBA, is merely blowing smoke and is actually an undercover agent for some highly secretive branch of the US Government, who was merely sent here to confuse you with the facts.

==========================================================================

As I long ago indicated, the FBI did an assassination re-enactment and survey on 2/7/64, and the survey plat which you see within the WC as well as the Dallas archives is in fact the result of that work.

It is the survey plat in which the FBI left SHOT#3/aka the Altgens impact in place, and thereafter attempted to make the Z313 impact disappear from it's location and thereafter move it/aka SHOT#2, some 24.5 feet back up Elm St. to a point which places it lateral to the lamp post and well prior to JFK having ever passed the position of the Moorman/Hill location and their corresponding yellow curb marking.

Although suffering from progressive loss of memory due to that "age" problem, I do seem to recall having long ago informed

all about this little "slight/sleight-of-hand" trick.

As well as the fact that Mr. West marked all of these changes up on a copy of the FBI survey plat of 2/7/64, in which he drew in the formerly SS Second Shot impact point location and gave this to SS Agent JJ Howlett at Howlett's request.

Now, in event that one did not catch all of this, then they could yell again that Tom continues to make things up.

In that regards, might I recommend that one ask someone whom they might believe.

MARK! Got that "marked up" survey plat?

Yep! There is (at least within my often warped mind) a reason for having provided a repository of information and knowledge,

other than myself.

So! Stated simply!

The numbers "2" & "3" marked in these photo's have launched anyone who does not understand their significance, back into the "lair of the hare", while also making them think that the survey plat which they can find record of is the SS Survey Plat of 12/5/63 in which the impact location for each of the three shots fired was relatively accurately surveyed in and platted.

While, in reality, the survey plat is the FBI plat of 2/7/64 in which the FBI (for forensic and pathological reasons) assumed that they would have to leave the third shot impact (Altgens impact) in place and that they could make the Z313 impact disappear, and move a shot back up Elm St. to blame JBC's wounds on.

All done, merely to fool poor ole Pat Speer no doubt!

Good thing that they did not print any of the photo's or the survey plat in "reverse imagery" photography.

Pat may well have had JFK headed back downtown Dallas.

Questions?

In event no one has figured it out as of yet, we all are dealing with "pro's" in the obfuscation of evidence, and truthfully,

only "sneaky" can come close to fully understanding "sneaky"!

http://www.globalspecialoperations.com/sf.html

Nicknames:

"The Quiet Professionals"

"Green Berets"

Warrior Diplomats

Sneaky Pete

Note: Corrected SS to read FBI

Nevertheless, not too bad when one takes into considertion that I got up at 3:00AM to get Barbara off to work; then got her daughter off to work; and then got her three grandchildren off to school.

Actually, I am far too old for this S**t!

Edited January 7, 2009 by Thomas H. Purvis

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Due to the critical importance, I did not want to include this in with the remainder of the Cancellare photo, where it

merely gets lost in the crowd.

Computing distances based on these "angular" photographs is about like dealing with the "Law of Diminishing Returns".

However, the close proximity of James Altgens to the second yellow curb marking makes it not that difficult to

accurately place him on Elm St. in this as well as other photographs.

Provided of course that one has some reference of scale with which to work.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0047b.htm

Nope! Nothing here to work with.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z352.jpg

As any qualified "sniper" is aware. Some times, one must wait a long time until the target fully comes into view.

Tom,

The Hughes composite might be a little easier on the eyes (viewing angle) that is.

Also,

Do you know the distance from lightpost at left in animation, to first yellow curb mark just ahead of the red car, if the lightpost was on the south side, inline with the yellow curb marks?

thanks,

chris

P.S.

Compositing as much of the West plat you have provided me with Drommer, I get a distance of 20 Ft. from lightpost to first yellow mark.

Chris;

Not wanting to let down my loyal grouping of followers*, perhaps this will be of some assistance in what you ask.

(*All three of you)

It may provide a few answers.

Then again, it may only confuse more.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0449a.htm

Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car.

Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera.

Note: It is approximately 20 to 21 feet from James Altgens position to the center of Elm St directly in front of his position.

It is in excess of 36-feet in direct alignment from James Altgens position to the Z313 impact location in the center of

Elm St.

[David G. Healy]

[...]

Nevertheless, not too bad when one takes into considertion that I got up at 3:00AM to get Barbara off to work; then got her daughter off to work; and then got her three grandchildren off to school.

Actually, I am far too old for this S**t!

nah.... you're not too old for this....you're doing just fine. Tell me though, HOW do you get all those women OFF to work and school, and on-time I presume?

David

[Thomas H. Purvis]

[...]

Nevertheless, not too bad when one takes into considertion that I got up at 3:00AM to get Barbara off to work; then got her daughter off to work; and then got her three grandchildren off to school.

Actually, I am far too old for this S**t!

nah.... you're not too old for this....you're doing just fine. Tell me though, HOW do you get all those women OFF to work and school, and on-time I presume?

David

HOW do you get all those women OFF to work and school, and on-time I presume?

Not wanting to brag about anything, I didn't!

Barbara is no trouble. As an ER Nurse with 25+ years, she is pretty good. I merely get up with her and make coffee, etc;.

Christy, the daughter and two of her kids sleep in the master bedroom which we gave to them and

installed bunk beds for the two kids.

An older son sleeps in another bedroom.

She was supposed to have been up and gone to work when I went in to wake up the two kids to get ready for school.

She wasn't! Don't know if she did or did not make it to work on time.

Doubtful, as she works at the NASA facility at Picayune, MS and it is certainly a decent drive from here.

Shall I ask her if she knows anyone there who is from New Orleans who may have worked for Reily Coffee Company?

Anyway, have to keep somebody working so that I can afford to sit around and play "Who Shot John" all

day on the internet.

P.S. The "Fat Lady" is most likely getting ready to make some additional noise!

[Jack White]

Due to the critical importance, I did not want to include this in with the remainder of the Cancellare photo, where it

merely gets lost in the crowd.

Computing distances based on these "angular" photographs is about like dealing with the "Law of Diminishing Returns".

However, the close proximity of James Altgens to the second yellow curb marking makes it not that difficult to

accurately place him on Elm St. in this as well as other photographs.

Provided of course that one has some reference of scale with which to work.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol18_0047b.htm

Nope! Nothing here to work with.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z352.jpg

As any qualified "sniper" is aware. Some times, one must wait a long time until the target fully comes into view.

Tom,

The Hughes composite might be a little easier on the eyes (viewing angle) that is.

Also,

Do you know the distance from lightpost at left in animation, to first yellow curb mark just ahead of the red car, if the lightpost was on the south side, inline with the yellow curb marks?

thanks,

chris

P.S.

Compositing as much of the West plat you have provided me with Drommer, I get a distance of 20 Ft. from lightpost to first yellow mark.

Chris;

Not wanting to let down my loyal grouping of followers*, perhaps this will be of some assistance in what you ask.

(*All three of you)

It may provide a few answers.

Then again, it may only confuse more.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0449a.htm

Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car.

Mr. ALTGENS - Because I didn't see who fired it. After the Presidential car moved a little past me, I took another picture--now, just let me back up here--I was prepared to make a picture at the very instant the President was shot. I had refocused to 15 feet because I wanted a good closeup of the President and Mrs. Kennedy, and that's why I know that it would be right at 15 feet, because I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera.

Note: It is approximately 20 to 21 feet from James Altgens position to the center of Elm St directly in front of his position.

It is in excess of 36-feet in direct alignment from James Altgens position to the Z313 impact location in the center of

Elm St.

Tom...you are NOW really talking SENSE. I have always disputed Altgens' estimate of being 15 feet away when he took

his photo.

There is something not kopasetic about Altgens. He denied taking two of "his" photos. He lied about the famous one.

He took his photo from a location IN THE STREET as Zapruder shows, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, he failed to take any photos

of the limo when IT WAS STOPPED, or WHEN IT WAS CLOSEST TO HIM. And he was a VETERAN NEWS PHOTOGRAPHER!

I suspect his testimony was coached and his photos of the STOPPED LIMO confiscated. He surely must have shot more!

It is suspicious that he is one of the few close witnesses WHO DID NOT REPORT THE STOPPING OF THE LIMO!

Jack

Edited January 8, 2009 by Jack White

[Robin Unger]

Tom.

I tried to clean this image up a bit.

Zapruder pedestal / Lamp post / Bond position. ( Bonds camera position ) directly behind the glass light at the top of the light post.

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/galle...01/4076-001.jpg

I would place Bonds position approx here:

Edited January 8, 2009 by Robin Unger