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Guest Duncan MacRae
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Guest Duncan MacRae

I noticed this anomoly way back in 2002, but no one showed any interest at the time on any of the other Forums of which I was a member.

In light of Jack showing the Jim Marrs UFO in another thread, I thought I would resurrect this and ask for opinions.............. Artifact or UFO?

The photograph is by Harry Cabluck, and appears to show a commonly observed, filmed and photographed cigar shaped UFO.

For the record: I'm not saying that a UFO had anything to do with the assassination. Click To View - Cigar Shaped UFO Video Rhode Island 1967

plazaufostudy.png

Click To View - Cigar Shaped UFO Video Rhode Island 1967

Edited by Duncan MacRae
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Being ignorant of JFK matters, is there another photo which would show a similar view at the same time? Additionally, do we know the shutter speed used to take that image?

I'm thinking artifact but there are a couple of explanations at this time.

Still, at this time it is a UFO because it appears to be a flying object and it is unidentified.

BTW - that Cumberland / 1967 image; do you have more details on that one? Looks very interesting.

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What a curious phenomenon. At one time Jack White reported that U.S. government sponsored Black Helicopters were circling his house ostensibly in order to keep an eye on him and to take pictures while he did his ground-breaking and inspirational Black Dog Man research but that just turned out to be the landscapers next door with a new pair of high powered new fangled self-propelled riding mowers. I am sure that this observation will turn out to be something similar. Does anyone still have a link to that posting in alt.conspiracy.jfk? That was a real riot, too. And the landscapers kept yelling "Green side up!" the whole afternoon. What the heck did that mean? Could it be that this flying saucer was used by Black Dog Man and Badge Man to quickly exit the scene of Dealey Plaza? Is so were they just "beamed up" if indeed that technology existed even then. Or did the saucer actually land somewhere behind the Grassy Knoll and abduct them for yet another set of Lt. Philip J. Corso-inspired Alien Autopsies or Alien Abductions? This has really piqued my normal levels of intellectual curiosity to a veritable, reverberating crescendo. Is Corso still around or is he long gone and hard to find? Betcha he would have a thing or two to say about all this. Or how about Corso's aide-de-camp and chief acolyte and Jack White's Dallas tour companion John Armstrong? That object could also just have been one of Castro's cigars you know or a frisbee dropped from a plane, too. Or maybe doggy droppings from Black Dog Man's doggy? The mind just boggles at the thought of all these potential internecine contingencies.

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What a curious phenomenon. At one time Jack White reported that U.S. government sponsored Black Helicopters were circling his house ostensibly in order to keep an eye on him and to take pictures while he did his ground-breaking and inspirational Black Dog Man research but that just turned out to be the landscapers next door with a new pair of high powered new fangled self-propelled riding mowers. I am sure that this observation will turn out to be something similar. Does anyone still have a link to that posting in alt.conspiracy.jfk? That was a real riot, too. And the landscapers kept yelling "Green side up!" the whole afternoon. What the heck did that mean? Could it be that this flying saucer was used by Black Dog Man and Badge Man to quickly exit the scene of Dealey Plaza? Is so were they just "beamed up" if indeed that technology existed even then. Or did the saucer actually land somewhere behind the Grassy Knoll and abduct them for yet another set of Lt. Philip J. Corso-inspired Alien Autopsies or Alien Abductions? This has really piqued my normal levels of intellectual curiosity to a veritable, reverberating crescendo. Is Corso still around or is he long gone and hard to find? Betcha he would have a thing or two to say about all this. Or how about Corso's aide-de-camp and chief acolyte and Jack White's Dallas tour companion John Armstrong? That object could also just have been one of Castro's cigars you know or a frisbee dropped from a plane, too. Or maybe doggy droppings from Black Dog Man's doggy? The mind just boggles at the thought of all these potential internecine contingencies.

And as for that alleged UFO sighting from Rhode Island, it was just a piece of old plumbing pipe hanging from the tree. Notice that the film only lasted a few seconds and that this UFO never moved and certainly was not capable of a high speed getaway either. Why did these hoaxsters not keep the film running until that pipe moved or did something that a flying saucer is wont to do? This is just an old piece of folklore and mythology done by a local hoaxster is the word on the street in New England. Must still be laughing his butt off if he is still vertical.

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So Duncan

You wont talk to me because I am an alterationist

But yet you believe in UFOs and think one was in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63?

:blink:

Of coures there was a UFO in Dealey Plaza Dean, YOU posted it the last time we exchanged in a thread, ie, Your Unidentified Flyng Jet Pack Cameraman in Betzner :lol:

:(

Good one Duncan, that was funny

While I believe in my Camera Man in Betzner, I also have a good sense of humor

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Being ignorant of JFK matters, is there another photo which would show a similar view at the same time? Additionally, do we know the shutter speed used to take that image?

I'm thinking artifact but there are a couple of explanations at this time.

Still, at this time it is a UFO because it appears to be a flying object and it is unidentified.

BTW - that Cumberland / 1967 image; do you have more details on that one? Looks very interesting.

.

Someone on my own forum has suggested to me that the object is a scratch on the bus window, as it appears to show itself in another Cabluck photograph as seen below.

I propose that the object may have been moving, and that's why it shows again. Who knows?. I've highlighted the object in the 2nd photograph.

Cabluck2.jpg

These Cabluck photos look like stills. How could Cabluck take a picture of the North Knoll Pergola, obviously facing north and the Underpass facing west on a bus and get a scratch in the film both times? He must have moved around on the bus. But wouldn't he get off the bus and take pictures like the other photographers? If so, maybe his camera lens had a hair on it.

But it's interesting. Keep us posted about UFO's there. I've seen 2 in my lifetime. Some people wouldn't believe this but on 9/11 there were UFO's seen near the WTC disguised as blue -- pardon me -- balls.

Kathy C

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What a curious phenomenon. At one time Jack White reported that U.S. government sponsored Black Helicopters were circling his house ostensibly in order to keep an eye on him and to take pictures while he did his ground-breaking and inspirational Black Dog Man research but that just turned out to be the landscapers next door with a new pair of high powered new fangled self-propelled riding mowers. I am sure that this observation will turn out to be something similar. Does anyone still have a link to that posting in alt.conspiracy.jfk? That was a real riot, too. And the landscapers kept yelling "Green side up!" the whole afternoon. What the heck did that mean? Could it be that this flying saucer was used by Black Dog Man and Badge Man to quickly exit the scene of Dealey Plaza? Is so were they just "beamed up" if indeed that technology existed even then. Or did the saucer actually land somewhere behind the Grassy Knoll and abduct them for yet another set of Lt. Philip J. Corso-inspired Alien Autopsies or Alien Abductions? This has really piqued my normal levels of intellectual curiosity to a veritable, reverberating crescendo. Is Corso still around or is he long gone and hard to find? Betcha he would have a thing or two to say about all this. Or how about Corso's aide-de-camp and chief acolyte and Jack White's Dallas tour companion John Armstrong? That object could also just have been one of Castro's cigars you know or a frisbee dropped from a plane, too. Or maybe doggy droppings from Black Dog Man's doggy? The mind just boggles at the thought of all these potential internecine contingencies.

I have never claimed that black helicopters were circling my house. Ignorant people make ignorant claims.

Jack

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Being ignorant of JFK matters, is there another photo which would show a similar view at the same time? Additionally, do we know the shutter speed used to take that image?

I'm thinking artifact but there are a couple of explanations at this time.

Still, at this time it is a UFO because it appears to be a flying object and it is unidentified.

BTW - that Cumberland / 1967 image; do you have more details on that one? Looks very interesting.

.

Someone on my own forum has suggested to me that the object is a scratch on the bus window, as it appears to show itself in another Cabluck photograph as seen below.

I propose that the object may have been moving, and that's why it shows again. Who knows?. I've highlighted the object in the 2nd photograph.

Cabluck2.jpg

These Cabluck photos look like stills. How could Cabluck take a picture of the North Knoll Pergola, obviously facing north and the Underpass facing west on a bus and get a scratch in the film both times? He must have moved around on the bus. But wouldn't he get off the bus and take pictures like the other photographers? If so, maybe his camera lens had a hair on it.

But it's interesting. Keep us posted about UFO's there. I've seen 2 in my lifetime. Some people wouldn't believe this but on 9/11 there were UFO's seen near the WTC disguised as blue -- pardon me -- balls.

Kathy C

Kathy,

The bus itself was moving down Elm Street as Cabluck was taking his still photographs (3 of them) out of a window on the right hand side of the bus. All of the photographs are looking essentially north/north-west.

Todd

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Someone on my own forum has suggested to me that the object is a scratch on the bus window, as it appears to show itself in another Cabluck photograph as seen below.

I propose that the object may have been moving, and that's why it shows again. Who knows?. I've highlighted the object in the 2nd photograph.

Cabluck2.jpg

These Cabluck photos look like stills. How could Cabluck take a picture of the North Knoll Pergola, obviously facing north and the Underpass facing west on a bus and get a scratch in the film both times? He must have moved around on the bus. But wouldn't he get off the bus and take pictures like the other photographers? If so, maybe his camera lens had a hair on it.

But it's interesting. Keep us posted about UFO's there. I've seen 2 in my lifetime. Some people wouldn't believe this but on 9/11 there were UFO's seen near the WTC disguised as blue -- pardon me -- balls.

Kathy C

Kathy,

The bus itself was moving down Elm Street as Cabluck was taking his still photographs (3 of them) out of a window on the right hand side of the bus. All of the photographs are looking essentially north/north-west.

Todd

I thought the bus came to a stop, ironically where Kennedy was shot. Photographers got out and took photos of people on the ground. Why would a photographer take a photo through a closed window when he could get out and take them. He had to be on the right side of the bus to take the pergola; and by the driver to take a photo of the underpass bridge. It doesn't make sense.

Kathy C

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I thought the bus came to a stop, ironically where Kennedy was shot. Photographers got out and took photos of people on the ground. Why would a photographer take a photo through a closed window when he could get out and take them. He had to be on the right side of the bus to take the pergola; and by the driver to take a photo of the underpass bridge. It doesn't make sense.

Kathy C

While the action is still ongoing in real-time, no photographer worth their salt, would take the time to move toward the front of the bus in an attempt to get out of the bus, walk down the stairs and then continue shooting. The aisles may have been clogged with onlookers who were afraid for their lives, too. Would you step out into the gunfight at the OK Corral just to get a better look or would you duck and cover? For all the onlookers and passengers knew there might have been a running gun fight continuing between the perps and the cops. And since in fact, the bus was still moving, that would account for what appears to be a change in position of the... ....um scratch. I think the explanation of the scratch on either the window or the camera lens makes the most sense to me. No flying saucers involved here sorry to say. Keep looking though. If we continue to regress into Gnat xxxx vs. Peppah in an attempt to merely prove the presence or an absence of "A CONSPIRACY" we are doomed to failure IMHO. I thought we would have been far beyond the attempts to merely prove "A CONSPIRACY". Without Perps, Plotters and Pass-the-Buckers you have NO CONSPIRACY SOLUTION. Unfortunately, I have stated for almost 20 years that even the Medical Evidence Analysis, Ballistics Evidence and Dealey Plaza Scrutiny was doomed to failure regarding the identity of the actual Perps or the Plotters or their Motivations and sad to say I was right. Why don't people just accept Conspiracy as Fact and move on to the names of the Perps, the identity of the Plotters and the names of the cover-up artists? I will make it easy on all of you. They were part of the Dallas John Birch Society, retired or forced to resign Army Intelligence, rogue CIA agents and the World Anti-Communist League. Some of you can not stand the idea of using words like rogue, rebellious, recalcitrant, retired, renegade or resigned but just get used to it. Even James Richards uses the term "rogue CIA agents" and quite aptly and correctly, too.

rogue, rebellious, recalcitrant, reactionary, right wing, retired, renegade or resigned

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I thought the bus came to a stop, ironically where Kennedy was shot. Photographers got out and took photos of people on the ground. Why would a photographer take a photo through a closed window when he could get out and take them. He had to be on the right side of the bus to take the pergola; and by the driver to take a photo of the underpass bridge. It doesn't make sense.

Kathy C

The aisles may have been clogged with onlookers who were afraid for their lives, too. Would you step out into the gunfight at the OK Corral just to get a better look or would you duck and cover? For all the onlookers and passengers knew there might have been a running gun fight continuing between the perps and the cops.

"Something has happened in the motorcade. I repeat, something has happened in the motorcade." -- one of the reporters. I don't think the reporters or photographers knew that Kennedy had been shot. And as for being afraid of getting shot -- do you remember how quickly witnesses ran up the grassy knoll, fearing nothing? Photographers have to get pictures. That's what they do, even putting themselves in harm's way.

Kathy C

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Hi Kathy hoping all is going well...here is a post i did some years back on wiegman one of the photographers and what he went through as the shots had been sounded and they got out of the vehicles and ran snapping and filming as they went disregarding any danger that may have been in the area in regards to themselves they have one thought and that is to get the news and film the area...it may make some aspects a wee bit clearer,,you take good care and keep

that chin up high .. best b... :lol: Below the light square in the photo is a close up of the man on the top ste of the tsbd entrance which what could be a possible camera in their hand and the light from the lens may be reflecting in the wiegman photo.??

David Wiegman:

"We were in that straight-a-way heading down to what I now know as

the Book Depository, and I heard the first report and I thought like every

body that it was a good size firecracker---a cherry bomb .Then when I

heard the second one, the adrenaline really started pumping because

there was a reaction in the motorcade, I was sitting on the edge of the

(car door) frame,which I sometimes did. I keenly remember right after

the incident that my feet were on the ground during one of the reports.

I don't think I was fast enough to react to the second, but I think on the

third one I was running.

The car had slowed down enough for me to jump out. I swung my leg

over and jumped while the car was still moving, but it was very slow.

I jumped and I remember running and I remember the third shot.

When I got out I knew I better get around the corner. The car was

stopping. I'd better run around there and see what was happening. I

knew the reaction was to run forward. I'd done this before in other

motorcades because a lot of times the President will stop and do

something. He might just shake a hand. He might look at a sign.

So your doing no good sitting in your car, and you can always

retrieve your car as it goes by....It was a technique I've used and

I've gotten some good pictures that way. That may have been built

in to get out and run and get up there and see what the heck's

happening . The motorcade has stopped, plus you heard a report

I don't think I thought on the first or second ( shot ), but when the

third one went off, I really thought I felt the compression on my face.

----I really thought I felt it. The I thought "Somebody is shooting".

The idea of turning on the camera, I don't know where that came

from. Iv'e turned in some real sloppy work over the years that

went into editing because I believed that sometimes your not

photographing what's happening as much as the moment. It's a

slice of time. And something told me, "hey look, what have I got to

lose. I've got a full spring and just turn it on." I can't stop and plant

my feet, so I put it against my chest because you can't run with a

Filmo up to your eyes. So I just slid i tdown under my chin and

looked forward and ran as fast as I could and took in everything I

could."

Telephone interview Wiegman, 3/11/89..P.O.T.P...Trask..

pages 371-372.

..........................

He was in the Press car 1."the reel car"

the first with photographers aboard..A yellow 1964 Chev.Impala

convertible.

The President's Lincoln..The Queen Mary.SS...L.B.Js ...

SS..The Bell Telephone press pool car ..then the Press #1 Car..

(Wiegman's). Along with Atkins,Craven,John Hoefen,( Wiegman's

sound man..Front seat driving a Texas Ranger..then Cleve Ryan

then Wiegman on the passenger seat in the sixth car behind the

President..

He was carrying a Filmo movie camera,used no handle,

shot with left eye finders on left side of camera.Wide angle lens,

He thought he used a 10mm.that day..

Worked for NBC..TV cameraman..White House attachment every

day for 8 years..37 years old..

.........................

"It would appear through careful analysis of this film, and aided in

research done by Richard Sprague and Gary Mack ,on the timing

of the sequence, that Wiegman began filming

A LITTLE OVER THREE SECONDS:....

prior to the President BEING HIT IN THE HEAD".

Gary Mack 's,"Coverups!"..9/1982..p.2-5...9/1985, p.1-2..

Letter Richard Sprague to Robert Cuttler, 10/31/1982.

..........................

"Wiegman probably first pressed his camera trigger just after

the second shot."..clip.."begins as Wiegman's car is approaching

the TSDB, while the telephone car infront begins making the

left hand turn.".." shows various spectators on the steps of the

Book Depository as well as others on the sidewalk..Many are

looking forwards towards the presidential vehicle while some

are gazing back at the vehincles coming in their direction."

.Trask..p373

.......

In the film we see, the film begins with a panning of the front

entrance of the TSBD,swings to the left, then back to the right,

he then was on his way to the knoll,and behind the fence...see.

the film at below...click, Wiegman, then when page loads, click top

right hand corner button....ta da..

http://www.jfk-online.com/films.html

.................................

We have Wiegman capturing the TSBD entrance approximately

"A little over three seconds" prior to the Presdient being hit in

head."..see above..Sprague..Mack..

........................

From: "Murder In Dealey Plaza"..Dr.James Fetzer..

P.34...ALTGENS...

"An Associated Press photographer ,James Altgens, has

stationed himself at a vantage point on Elm Street across

from the Texas School Book Depository Building to photograph

the Presidential motorcade as it passes through Dealey Plaza

and heads onto the Stemmons Freeway.

Altgens captures the President on film in a now-famous shot

taken WITHIN TWO SECONDS of the impact of the bullet that

STRIKES J.F.K's HEAD."......

And the controversy begins about whom, L.H.O or Lovelady

is pictured in his shot....in the entrance of the T.S.B.D...

.............................

Now how can this be???

If Wiegman's frame of the TSBD entrance...was taken approximately

THREE SECONDS

before the President is hit in the head by a bullet..

And Altgen's photo shows the entrance of the TSBD...taken

approx.TWO SECONDS before the President is hit in the head

by the same shot.........

thanks for your time....B... B)

Edited by Bernice Moore
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