Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Kathleen Collins]

Kathy,

Yes, Judyth had a degree in physical anthropology, one among many disciplines she has studied. This in combination with her medical knowledge has enhanced her ability to deal with photographs of persons at different stages of their lives. If you reread some of those posts, then you will notice that that is the case.

Jim

JUDYTH REPLIES TO KATHY COLLINS:

I DID NOT SAY THESE THINGS. COMMENTS BELOW:

I don't dislike Judyth.

==THAT'S NICE TO KNOW==

But what she has said in the past makes me wonder.

==MAKE SURE I SAID IT AND IT IS NOT A SECONDHAND QUOTE==

For example, the Mormons turned against her and followed her after she escaped Utah.

1) NEVER LIVED IN UTAH. AN INCIDENT OCCURRED IN NORWAY WHEN MORMONS TRIED TO STOP ME FROM LEAVING NORWAY AND MY CHRISTIAN FRIENDS -- 18 OF THEM -- BLOCKED THEM.. I HAD LEFT THE MORMON CHURCH OVER EGYPTIAN PAPYRUS TRANSLATION ISSUES.

Secondly, she was called over to Egypt to translate papyrus.

==NEVER HAPPENED==

BUT I'VE EXCAVATED A DIGS IN ISRAEL, JORDAN,NORWAY,GREECE AND OTHER PLACES . I RAN SOME DIGS MYSELF IN LOUISIANA FOR MY UNIVERSITY'S CONTINUING EDUCATION PROGRAM==

I wish Judyth would explain these stories. The first story mentioned is a warning to stay away from organized religion, but I would still like the details.

==I AM A 'RELUCTANT CHRISTIAN' WHO BELIEVES IN CHRIST AS MY SAVIOR, BUT IT TOOK A LOT TO GET TO THAT POINT. I DISLIKE RELIGIOUS CHARLATANS SUCH AS ARE ON TV==

And the latter story makes me wonder how and where she learned to read papyrus.

==THERE ARE SOME 10,000 OF US, LAST I LOOKED.. THIRTEEN LONG YEARS OF STUDY. SOME DOCUMENTATION IN MY HONORS THESIS FROM U OF HOUSTON, RE MURALISIMO AND A STUDY OF HIEROGLYPHS FROM EGYPTIAN AND AZTEC SOURCES.==

I know she is intellectually brilliant, but where did she get the knowledge of papyrus, and was she so good at it that someone in Egypt sent for her?

==OF COURSE NOT. I WENT TO EGYPT TO HELP IN AN EXCAVATION. I HAD TO APPLY FOR THE DIG LIKE ANYBODY ELSE AND WAS NOT SPONSORED BY AN INSTITUTION.==

Does she claim to have an anthropology degree?

==YES. B.S. 1986, UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON. PLUS GRADUATE HOURS.==

I would like these questions answered. But I won't hold my breath.

== ???? ==

I'm sorry Judyth is beset by health and financial problems. And I wish her well. I just wish she would explain the Mormons and the papyrus.

--I HOPE THIS LAYS IT TO REST FOR YOU.--

JVB

Thanks, Judyth, for explaining this to me. You certainly answer the questions forthrightly. Before, on Rich's forum, you were very vague. Do you remember me writing to you when you were on Rich's forum? We weren't enemies.

Kathy C

[Greg Burnham]

REPLY TO JIM'S NOTE BELOW:

[NOTE: He may have been told that he had succeeded in breaking the plot and that nothing

was going to happen that day. We act on our beliefs and that may be what he believed. He

had done his job, he had been successful, so he might as well relax and have a coke.]

Jim,

That seems inconsistent with Judyth's story. Judyth's account is that Oswald was somewhat resigned to doom by then; he was convinced enough that he wasn't going to survive that he told Judyth he wanted to spend Thursday night with his wife and kids so that HE COULD SAY GOODBYE TO THEM, which one can reasonably conclude is the reason for his having wept as reported by JVB.

On the other hand, if you're on the right track and he was so lulled into a false sense of security by his handler that he was relaxed and drinking a coke as the client (JFK) approached the kill zone (even in an aborted ambush scenario), my original point seems reinforced: He lacked the wisdom that comes from life experience. Again, I grant that Judyth might be seeing him through biased eyes, so her claims that, IMO, paint him as "wise beyond his years" are still sincere even if tainted. No disrespect intended.

GO_SECURE

monk

Edited March 25, 2010 by Greg Burnham

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Monk,

That note was my conjecture about why he might not have taken a more active role. Since our behavior results

from the combined effects of our motives, beliefs, ethics, abilities, and capabilities, if he had been in a false state

of belief about what would transpire, then he might have relaxed. This was my suggestion, not Judyth's remark.

I agree that having a coke at that place and time is a troubling aspect of his actions, one I find difficult to explain.

Jim

REPLY TO JIM'S NOTE BELOW:

[NOTE: He may have been told that he had succeeded in breaking the plot and that nothing

was going to happen that day. We act on our beliefs and that may be what he believed. He

had done his job, he had been successful, so he might as well relax and have a coke.]

Jim,

That seems inconsistent with Judyth's story. Judyth's account is that Oswald was somewhat resigned to doom by then; he was convinced enough that he wasn't going to survive that he told Judyth he wanted to spend Thursday night with his wife and kids so that HE COULD SAY GOODBYE TO THEM, which one can reasonably conclude is the reason for his having wept as reported by JVB.

On the other hand, if you're on the right track and he was so lulled into a false sense of security by his handler that he was relaxed and drinking a coke as the client (JFK) approached the kill zone (even in an aborted ambush scenario), my original point seems reinforced: He lacked the wisdom that comes from life experience. Again, I grant that Judyth might be seeing him through biased eyes, so her claims that, IMO, paint him as "wise beyond his years" are still sincere even if tainted. No disrespect intended.

GO_SECURE

monk

[Kathleen Collins]

Judyth, do you remember when you were on Rich's forum and I had just joined, I mentioned that Marina had said, according to Norman Mailer, that Lee had body odor even when he was clean? There was always a smell. And you said that came from the chemicals the two of you were working with?

I don't consider asking you about papyrus off-topic. To me it's an investigation of your claims. If you were to tell a lie in one section of your "story," than you could lie in other areas of your autobiography.

I do not know if you are being truthful or not, but I've noticed your answers are very well written. I have a suspicion that Jim Fetzer is writing these answers for you. Not making them up, but editing them because your writing differs here from your writing on Rich's forum. Especially in tone.

Now I want to ask you another question. Some might see it as off-topic, but I don't imho. I hope I don't offend you. On the cover of one of your books -- I think Lee and Me -- there is a sexy picture of you. What were you doing in that photo? Dancing? Entertaining?

Kathy C

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH REPLIES ABOUT LEE'S DYSLEXIA:

If dyslexia is a learning disorder that manifests itself as a difficulty with reading, spelling, and sometimes mathematics, that suggests that either Lee didn't read or he wasn't dyslexic. This looks like an area of inquiry that warrants further exploration.

THE STATEMENT SUGGESTS AN 'EITHER-OR' SITUATION THAT DOES NOT EXIST:

Dyslexia is a learning disorder, but it has a range of severity. For example, Lee's spelling was bad because he couldn't transfer letters in the right order at all times WHEN HE WAS PHYSICALLY WRITING THEM.

SOMETIMES that made him mis-read a word. But not often. His problem was transferring words to paper, as in a spelling test. He got good -- sometimes superior -- grades in reading -- and terrible grades in spelling.

But reading and writing are two different areas of dylexic problems.

Example:

Can you read the sentence below?

The b_st th_ngs in l_fe are Fr_e.

Yes, you can probably read everything!

Y_s, you c_n pr_b_bly read ever_th_ng!

As an intelligent dyslexic of a certain type reads, he can get better and better at filling in the blanks, so to speak, especially of familiar words.

JUDYTH REPLIES TO LOLA ON DYSLEXIA:

But I don't think that you can suffer from a mild form of dyslexia and at THE SAME TIME love reading.

==But it's true...His letters prove spelling problems of the usual kind associated with mild dyslexia....But he is on record as having taken out oodles of books, difficult reading, too....He used a dictionary constantly to avoid spelling errors...

You can hear Lee reading a text over in Russia if you go to the website I think it's called LEE HARVEY OSWALD IN MINSK by Peter Wronke. You can hear Lee readng clearly and cleanly and then hits a hard word -- which was "matriculation" -- and he says he'll look it up in the dictionary.

i have medals in baskeball, swimming, volleyball, and all-round athletics from University of Florida...Even a medal in baskeball though I'm only 5' 2"!

Did I avoid basketball because I was short?

But I don't think that you can suffer from a mild form of dyslexia and at THE SAME TIME love reading.

==Yes, he did, and yes, he did==

It is possible that due to him being forced to use his right hand when his natural inclination was to use his left hand might had had an averse influence?

==This is a probably the original source of his dyslexia, yes, as his earliest grades were sraight A's and it probably took a little time to train the other side of his brain to adapt, which it did==

He loved classical music and chess and was very good at chess...Here we see him simulating he other side of the brain, which had to help...==

JVB

------------------------

"In 95% of right-handers, the left side of the brain is dominant for language. Even in 60-70% of left-handers, the left side of brain is used for language. Back in the 1860s and 1870s, two neurologists (Paul Broca and Karl Wernicke) observed that people who had damage to a particular area on the left side of the brain had speech and language problems. People with damage to these areas on the right side usually did not have any language problems. The two language areas of the brain that are important for language now bear their names: Broca's area and Wernicke's area."

------------------------

Wikepedia: "Dyslexia[1] is a learning disorder that manifests itself as a difficulty with reading, spelling and in some cases mathematics. It is separate and distinct from reading difficulties resulting from other causes, such as a non-neurological deficiency with vision or hearing, or from poor or inadequate reading instruction.[2] It is estimated that dyslexia affects between 5% and 17% of the U.S. population.[3]"

Greg, Interesting suggestion. I am starting to put together the personality and character of "the two Oswalds", neither of whom, as I understand it, would appear to have Asperger syndrome. Dawn Mereith has described the one known as "Lee" as hot-tempered and non-intellectual, having no interest in Marxism and incapable of speaking Russian. The one known as "Harvey", by contrast, is of a calm and intellectual demeanor, fluent in Russian and interested in political philosophy. Moreover, "Harvey", in particular, had a wife and even a girlfriend, from what Judyth has to tell us, which does not support the notion that he was socially inept. There still appears to be considerable room for questions about these identifications. Judyth, for example, who (according to Jack) knew the one called "Harvey" in New Orleans (who called himself "Lee") had a Cajun accent and hated the name "Harvey". According to Jack, however, Judyth knew "Harvey" who was Hungarian and liked the name "Harvey". It would appear that they cannot both be right, even about "Harvey". And if, as I understand it, dyslexia is a learning disorder that manifests itself as a difficulty with reading, spelling, and sometimes mathematics, that suggests that either "Harvey" didn't read or he wasn't dyslexic. This looks like an area of inquiry that warrants further exploration.

Asperger syndrome

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Asperger syndrome

Classification and external resources

Seated boy facing 3/4 away from camera, looking at a ball-and-stick model of a molecular structure. The model is made of colored magnets and steel balls.

People with Asperger's often display intense interests, such as this boy's fascination with molecular structure.

ICD-10 F84.5

ICD-9 299.80

OMIM 608638

DiseasesDB 31268

MedlinePlus 001549

eMedicine ped/147

MeSH F03.550.325.100

Asperger syndrome is an autism spectrum disorder, and people with it therefore show significant difficulties in social interaction, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. It differs from other autism spectrum disorders by its relative preservation of linguistic and cognitive development. Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and atypical use of language are frequently reported.[1][2]

Asperger syndrome is named for the Austrian pediatrician Hans Asperger who, in 1944, described children in his practice who lacked nonverbal communication skills, demonstrated limited empathy with their peers, and were physically clumsy.[3] Fifty years later, it was standardized as a diagnosis, but many questions remain about aspects of the disorder.[4] For example, there is doubt about whether it is distinct from high-functioning autism (HFA);[5] partly because of this, its prevalence is not firmly established.[1] The diagnosis of Asperger's has been proposed to be eliminated, replaced by a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder on a severity scale.[6]

The exact cause is unknown, although research supports the likelihood of a genetic basis; brain imaging techniques have not identified a clear common pathology.[1] There is no single treatment, and the effectiveness of particular interventions is supported by only limited data.[1] Intervention is aimed at improving symptoms and function. The mainstay of management is behavioral therapy, focusing on specific deficits to address poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness.[7] Most individuals improve over time, but difficulties with communication, social adjustment and independent living continue into adulthood.[4] Some researchers and people with Asperger's have advocated a shift in attitudes toward the view that it is a difference, rather than a disability that must be treated or cured.[8]

The only source of which I am aware for the information that Lee Harvey Oswald was dyslexic is Judyth Vary Baker.]

Sorry, Professor Fetzer. Norman Mailer wrote about Oswald's dyslexia in his book Oswald's Tale, published in 1995.

And I did respond to Judyth.

Kathy C

Mary Ferrell told me that LHO was dyslexic in 1975. I had to ask what the word meant,

and she explained. Mary discovered it by having read every writing attributed to him.

It is reported in many books.

Jack

This is my one and only entry into this quagmire.

Oswald was never diagnosed as dyslexic. I'd say there was good reason for this: he wasn't. It is primarily a READING disability. Any spelling problems are secondary to that - if they exist at all. A tell-tale sign of dyslexia in adults is avoidance of reading. Does that sound like Oswald to anyone?

In my opinion - and bear in mind that I'm not qualified enough to even legally tie my own shoelaces, so take it as you will - Oswald had Asperger's Syndrome. At least this explains ALL of Oswald's peccadillos - unlike dyslexia which would have to include a problem he did NOT have in order for it to be even a semi-valid diagnosis.

So why wasn't he diagnosed with this syndrome, I hear you cry? Simply because it was not recognised in the US until the '70s.

Any disputes over who stated he had dyslexia first is like wanting to lay claim to being the first to say the beatles would be a flop.

If you want to understand Oswald ( a ) research Asperger's & ( b ) look at the qualities and experiences he had which would make him attractive to certain types running certain operations - and then look at what operations were occuring at certain times which would fit Oswald's movements & actions.

Edited March 25, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Kathy, it is no secret that I am correcting typos and making minor formatting changes on Judyth's behalf. You

do understand that she is nearly blind, needs glasses, and is using an old computer with a Hungarian keyboard?

Under these conditions, I believe that it would be very unfair to post her replies absent this kind of minor editing.

If there are differences in tone, they probably result from being so far along in having her book ready, in having

someone who is presenting her on the forum, and having more experience in dealing with these endless attacks.

I don't know Judyth's story, however, and could not possibly make up answers on her behalf even if I wanted to.

Covers of books, by the way, are controlled by publishers, whose decisions are not always affected even by the

preferences of their authors. Judyth can answer, but when they had a sexy shot from her younger days, I would

suppose it would add an additional dimension to the book cover. That is my best guess. Judyth may say more.

Judyth, do you remember when you were on Rich's forum and I had just joined, I mentioned that Marina had said, according to Norman Mailer, that Lee had body odor even when he was clean? There was always a smell. And you said that came from the chemicals the two of you were working with?

I don't consider asking you about papyrus off-topic. To me it's an investigation of your claims. If you were to tell a lie in one section of your "story," than you could lie in other areas of your autobiography.

I do not know if you are being truthful or not, but I've noticed your answers are very well written. I have a suspicion that Jim Fetzer is writing these answers for you. Not making them up, but editing them because your writing differs here from your writing on Rich's forum. Especially in tone.

Now I want to ask you another question. Some might see it as off-topic, but I don't imho. I hope I don't offend you. On the cover of one of your books -- I think Lee and Me -- there is a sexy picture of you. What were you doing in that photo? Dancing? Entertaining?

Kathy C

Edited March 25, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO LOLA ABOUT PHONE CALLS:

Regarding the phone-calls using mafia-lines I believe intel was also listening to your conversations

==Nope. I have not shown you the call wheel we used...The betting lines I describe were uncovered only after millions of free calls had been made on them! We did have the newspaper article and can find it again, i hope. ==

I showed the call wheel method to "60 Minutes" and wish it would be in the book. Perhaps we can find time sometme to post it on my blog. There was no way anybody would know what pay phone we would be using or at what particlar time...It was pure genius and was invented by the CIA.

Unbreakable.

However, some mafia guy migh a some time have picked up one or more of our conversations...Most mafia were NOT involved with the CIA, though.... Overgeneralizations can lead to thinking that ALL mafia were involved with the CIA, which was never the case.==

JUDYTH REPLIES TO LOLA ABOUT KEEPING SILENT:

Since they had already decided that Lee was going to become the patsy, he probably didn't tell you anything that CIA thought fundamental because you would have been killed.

==Look at it this way -- At the time I was age 20, living in Florida, unable to contact anyone in New Orleans or I'm dead, so I don't. I'm watched over by Giancana to make sure I do not even make any more science classes. Later I was watched over by Harry Ransom to stop me in Texas. Had I spoken of injecting cancers, of bioweapons, of the great Alton Ochsner as having been involved -- who would have believed a word I said?==

ON THE RECORD I WAS A SECRETARY AT REILYS, A COFFEE COMPANY. THE MOST PATRIOTIC COFFEE COMPANY ON EARTH.

AWARE THAT DR. SHERMAN, DAVE FERRIE, MY SISTER AND OTHERS I LOVED WOULD DIE, THEY WATCHED ME AWHILE AND -- THINK OF IT -- I STOPPED ALL CANCER OF MY RESEARCH EFFORTS. ALL OF THEM.

I WANTED TO KILL MYSELF AT FIRST, THEN JUS WENT INTO DEEP DEPRESSON. IT WOULD BE FIVE YEARS BEFORE I HAD A BABY. THAT WAS A LONG TIME FOR PEOPLE IN THE 60'S TO WAIT...

NOBODY WOULD HAVE BELIEVED ME. OCHSNER WAS ALIVE AND WOULD HAVE DENIED ALL....

HECK, DR. SHERMAN AND DAVE WOULD DENY ALL TO SAVE THEIR SKINS.

ALL THAT WOULD HAPPEN IS MY HUSBAND WOULD HAVE DIVORCED ME. MY PARENTS AD BECOME ABUSIVE, MY SISTER WAS NEWLY MARRIED AND HER HUSBAND OUT TO SEA. SHE LIVED WITH SOME FRIEND -- I WAS TRAPPED AND HAD NOWHERE TO GO, NO LIFE, NO FUTURE.

THERE ARE OTHERS WHO KNEW A LOT WHO DID NOT GET SILENCED. DAVE FERRIE KNEW SO MUCH BUT NOT UNTIL 1967 DID THEY FINALLY KILLED HIM -- OF COURSE, THEY SAID IT WAS NATURAL CAUSES.

DEMOHRENSCHILDT LIVED UNTIL HSCA CAME ALONG, THEN HE WAS FOUND WITH A SHOTGUN IN HIS MOUTH AFTER AGREEING TO TALK TO THEM... THOSE WHO TALKED ARE THE ONES WHO GOT KILLED

JVB

JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK (IN PART):

ABOUT THOSE LATE NIGHT PHONE CALLS:

AS FOR THE MAFIA BETTING LINE, WE HAVE NEWSPAPER ARTICLES ABOUT A MASSIVE BETTING RING BEING UNCOVERED...

HERE WAS ONE IN 1957, SOON AFTER THE APPALACHIA MAFIA ROUNDUP::

"About two weeks after that raid, federal agents broke up a Terre Haute, Ind., gambling operation that handled as much as $10 million in bets during a 10-week period. A federal grand jury was convened to investigate the gambling operation. More than 170 people nationwide were subpoenaed, and Ryan was one of them. The investigation uncovered a nationwide telephone betting system that had wagers on everything from college and professional football to the World Series. Bets on single games were as high as $10,000."

http://www.haciendahotsprings.com/RayRyan.htm

THIS 1964 BOOK--MENTIONS MAFIA BETTING LINES...

Organized Crime / U.S.

...There's an entire chain of mini-conspiracies, ... It's about Mafia influence in U.S. business: trucking, garbage, the meat industry, ...This book also offers an introduction to the world of betting lines, odds makers and ...

Montreal: Pocket Books, 1964. 241 pages.

WE HAD ACCESS TO A MAFIA HORSE RACE BETTING LINE WITH SOME SPECIAL PHONE NUMBERS. AS ONE RESEARCHER WHO INVESTIGATED ME (AND THEN BECAME A SUPPORTER) OBSERVED, AFTER TRACING THE PHONE LINE ROUTES, IN NEWSPAPER ARTICLES FROM 1964-1965, "MAYBE THE FBI DIDN'T HEAR THEM TALKING, BUT THE MAFIA COULD." THAT WAS SOMETHING WE'D NEVER CONSIDERED...SO I GUESS MONK IS RIGHT ABOUT 'WISDOM' AFTER ALL....

JVB

Thanks for the laundromat information. I had never seen that. As I recall from the DellaRosa forum,

some researcher had researched a possible laundromat and could find none. I cannot remember

the name of the researcher who said there was no laundromat.

I recall that years later when I finally checked out Beckley Street in person, there was a gas station

across from the 1026 rooming house...and no signs of a washateria; the rest was residential.

Perhaps the laundromat was converted later to a gas station. I remember looking on both

Beckley and Zang for a washateria, and could find none...but that was many years later, so it

could have closed.

I also noted that your info said the washateria closed at midnight. As I recall JVB's claim, it was

said to be a 24-hour place, and that the phone calls were often after midnight.

Also, the claim is that somehow a mafia phone line was patched into the pay phone. I cannot

imagine this happening without the knowledge of Southwestern Bell.

Thanks.

Jack

[Kathleen Collins]

Kathy, it is no secret that I am correcting typos and making minor formatting changes on Judyth's behalf. You

do understand that she is nearly blind, needs glasses, and is using an old computer with a Hungarian keyboard?

Under these conditions, I believe that it would be very unfair to post her replies absent this kind of minor editing.

If there are differences in tone, they probably result from being so far along in having her book ready, in having

someone who is presenting her on the forum, and having more experience in dealing with these endless attacks.

I don't know Judyth's story, however, and could not possibly make up answers on her behalf even if I wanted to.

Covers of books, by the way, are controlled by publishers, whose decisions are not always affected even by the

preferences of their authors. Judyth can answer, but when they had a sexy shot from her younger days, I would

suppose it would add an additional dimension to the book cover. That is my best guess. Judyth may say more.

Judyth, do you remember when you were on Rich's forum and I had just joined, I mentioned that Marina had said, according to Norman Mailer, that Lee had body odor even when he was clean? There was always a smell. And you said that came from the chemicals the two of you were working with?

I don't consider asking you about papyrus off-topic. To me it's an investigation of your claims. If you were to tell a lie in one section of your "story," than you could lie in other areas of your autobiography.

I do not know if you are being truthful or not, but I've noticed your answers are very well written. I have a suspicion that Jim Fetzer is writing these answers for you. Not making them up, but editing them because your writing differs here from your writing on Rich's forum. Especially in tone.

Now I want to ask you another question. Some might see it as off-topic, but I don't imho. I hope I don't offend you. On the cover of one of your books -- I think Lee and Me -- there is a sexy picture of you. What were you doing in that photo? Dancing? Entertaining?

Kathy C

I am sorry that Judyth has eye problems. I, myself, have glaucoma. Can somebody get her to an eye doctor? Is she going blind because of glaucoma, cataracts, detached retina or diabetic retinopathy? Who is with her now from the Assassination community? Like Wim Dankbaar or somebody? Is there anyone there to help her? Doesn't she have any insurance or cash? This eye problem has gone on too long.

Kathy C

[Kathleen Collins]

The photo on the left, in my very humble opinion, has been fooled with. The line right under the eyes tells me it's been tampered with. This is a fake picture. I believe the weight on the face is contrived, as is the hair. This is not Lee Oswald, imo.

Kathy C

Edited March 25, 2010 by Kathleen Collins

[David Andrews]

I realize that this is no proof of anything, one way or another, but a rigged OC betting phone line appears in the plot of the 1950 film noir "711 Ocean Drive," starring Edmond O'Brien (who co-starred in "Seven Days in May," if that tickles anybody).

Here's the synopsis from imdb.com, though you'd have to see the film to get the details:

"A telephone repairman in Los Angeles uses his knowledge of electronics to help a bookie set up a betting operation. When the bookie is murdered, the greedy technician takes over his business. He ruthlessly climbs his way to the top of the local crime syndicate, but then gangsters from a big East Coast mob show up wanting a piece of his action."

I tend to believe that when certain pieces of narrative realism appear as pop culture artifacts, it's an indication that, however outlandish they might seem, they have occurred in real life (Manchurian candidates, anyone?) The trick, if it matters to you, is sorting realism from the real.

Also, Hollywood writers make their living following trends, and anticipating them. One poster on the imdb message board for the film identified these lifts from life:

"Faithful Otto Kruger, doing what he does best in playing a genteel killer, is a thinly fictionalized Meyer Lansky. Don Porter, unusually good here as a suave sociopath, is a barely disguised Ben "Bugsy" Seigel. The assassination of Porter's character is a wonderfully accurate account of how killers, hiding in the bushes of Seigel's Beverly Hills home one night in 1947, pumped several rounds from an M-1 Carbine into the back of his head. They even get the gun right!."

But, of course, other types of writers follow and anticipate trends as well.

Edited March 26, 2010 by David Andrews

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Kathy, I heard from her today that one of her supporters has sent (she would say lent) money for new glasses.

Thank you for asking and for being courageous by suggesting the "passport" photo of Lee may not be genuine.

Kathy, it is no secret that I am correcting typos and making minor formatting changes on Judyth's behalf. You

do understand that she is nearly blind, needs glasses, and is using an old computer with a Hungarian keyboard?

Under these conditions, I believe that it would be very unfair to post her replies absent this kind of minor editing.

If there are differences in tone, they probably result from being so far along in having her book ready, in having

someone who is presenting her on the forum, and having more experience in dealing with these endless attacks.

I don't know Judyth's story, however, and could not possibly make up answers on her behalf even if I wanted to.

Covers of books, by the way, are controlled by publishers, whose decisions are not always affected even by the

preferences of their authors. Judyth can answer, but when they had a sexy shot from her younger days, I would

suppose it would add an additional dimension to the book cover. That is my best guess. Judyth may say more.

Judyth, do you remember when you were on Rich's forum and I had just joined, I mentioned that Marina had said, according to Norman Mailer, that Lee had body odor even when he was clean? There was always a smell. And you said that came from the chemicals the two of you were working with?

I don't consider asking you about papyrus off-topic. To me it's an investigation of your claims. If you were to tell a lie in one section of your "story," than you could lie in other areas of your autobiography.

I do not know if you are being truthful or not, but I've noticed your answers are very well written. I have a suspicion that Jim Fetzer is writing these answers for you. Not making them up, but editing them because your writing differs here from your writing on Rich's forum. Especially in tone.

Now I want to ask you another question. Some might see it as off-topic, but I don't imho. I hope I don't offend you. On the cover of one of your books -- I think Lee and Me -- there is a sexy picture of you. What were you doing in that photo? Dancing? Entertaining?

Kathy C

I am sorry that Judyth has eye problems. I, myself, have glaucoma. Can somebody get her to an eye doctor? Is she going blind because of glaucoma, cataracts, detached retina or diabetic retinopathy? Who is with her now from the Assassination community? Like Wim Dankbaar or somebody? Is there anyone there to help her? Doesn't she have any insurance or cash? This eye problem has gone on too long.

Kathy C

[David Lifton]

Jack,

When I first spoke with Judyth in March, 2000, I had the sense that she had carefully "studied the books" --i.e., the Warren Report, plus Mailer, McMillan, perhaps the Ferrell chronologies, etc.--and was methodically "inserting herself" into the record, wherever she could.

Because she's very smart, and had assimilated so much data, the net result was to project a sense of verisimilitude. Many buy into the resultant "story"; I did not.

In that March, 2000 conversation, Judyth went through her narrative about how she met Oswald at the post office, on day he arrived in New Orleans, which was 4/26/63. And in connection with that, Judyth told me how he was dressed--as an ordinary worker. Grubby work clothes, etc.

However, I had recently been studying the records and had assembled a New Orleans chronology; so I was in fact aware of a contemporaneous New Orleans record stating how he was dressed that day.

As it turns out, on that day (April 26, 1963, the day Oswald went to the Louisiana employment agency to seek work) the interviewer (one John Rachal, as noted in the Warren Report) happened to make a record of how Oswald was dressed. He was in a suit, dress shirt, and tie.

Being aware of this, I questioned Judyth carefully on this very point. Judyth insisted that Oswald was dressed in grubby clothes and like an ordinary worker.

That, among other things, convinced me that Judyth was not credible.

From Rachal Deposition Exhibit (Volume 21, p. 283): "will relocate. . Neat. Suit. Tie. Polite." From Rachal's Warren Commission affidavit: "I recall that Oswald was neatly dressed, with a suit, dress shirt, and tie, on the occasion of our initial interview." (Rachel Affidavit; 11 WCH 475).

No doubt Judyth, upon learning of this "problem," will now perhaps claim that Oswald changed his clothes from a "suit, dress shirt, and tie" at the time of his 4/26/63 interview, to the work clothes he was wearing at the post office. But when and where would he do that?

I have no interest in pursuing this matter anymore--except to note that I had this experience with Judyth in March, 2000, and this issue of how Oswald was dressed on 4/26/63 occurred in the same conversation in which Judyth talked about how Oswald was supposedly intending to meet her in Cancun (which did not exist at the time). So in the same conversation in which she referred to a (then) non-existent destination for their meeting, she also had she also had Oswald's clothing wrong--at least "wrong" insofar as these Louisiana records attest;as to what he was known to be wearing on that specific day: April 26, 1963.

DSL

[Don Jeffries]

Thanks, Judith, for the detailed response.

One quick question; was LHO then planning to carry one of his guns to work with him on the day of the assassination? Was this something he did on a regular basis? Thanks.

[Jack White]

David Lifton asked me to post this for him. He had tried to post it,

but his scan was too large and in the wrong format for the forum,

so I converted it and made it smaller.

SCROLL TO BOTTOM.

Jack,

When I first spoke with Judyth in March, 2000, I had the sense that she had carefully "studied the books" --i.e., the Warren Report, plus Mailer, McMillan, perhaps the Ferrell chronologies, etc.--and was methodically "inserting herself" into the record, wherever she could.

Because she's very smart, and had assimilated so much data, the net result was to project a sense of verisimilitude. Many buy into the resultant "story"; I did not.

In that March, 2000 conversation, Judyth went through her narrative about how she met Oswald at the post office, on day he arrived in New Orleans, which was 4/26/63. And in connection with that, Judyth told me how he was dressed--as an ordinary worker. Grubby work clothes, etc.

However, I had recently been studying the records and had assembled a New Orleans chronology; so I was in fact aware of a contemporaneous New Orleans record stating how he was dressed that day.

As it turns out, on that day (April 26, 1963, the day Oswald went to the Louisiana employment agency to seek work) the interviewer (one John Rachal, as noted in the Warren Report) happened to make a record of how Oswald was dressed. He was in a suit, dress shirt, and tie.

Being aware of this, I questioned Judyth carefully on this very point. Judyth insisted that Oswald was dressed in grubby clothes and like an ordinary worker.

That, among other things, convinced me that Judyth was not credible.

From Rachal Deposition Exhibit (Volume 21, p. 283): "will relocate. . Neat. Suit. Tie. Polite." From Rachal's Warren Commission affidavit: "I recall that Oswald was neatly dressed, with a suit, dress shirt, and tie, on the occasion of our initial interview." (Rachel Affidavit; 11 WCH 475).

No doubt Judyth, upon learning of this "problem," will now perhaps claim that Oswald changed his clothes from a "suit, dress shirt, and tie" at the time of his 4/26/63 interview, to the work clothes he was wearing at the post office. But when and where would he do that?

I have no interest in pursuing this matter anymore--except to note that I had this experience with Judyth in March, 2000, and this issue of how Oswald was dressed on 4/26/63 occurred in the same conversation in which Judyth talked about how Oswald was supposedly intending to meet her in Cancun (which did not exist at the time). So in the same conversation in which she referred to a (then) non-existent destination for their meeting, she also had she also had Oswald's clothing wrong--at least "wrong" insofar as these Louisiana records attest;as to what he was known to be wearing on that specific day: April 26, 1963.

DSL

Edited March 26, 2010 by Jack White

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO KATHLEEN COLLINS:

Judyth, do you remember when you were on Rich's forum and I had just joined, I mentioned that Marina had said, according to Norman Mailer, that Lee had body odor even when he was clean? There was always a smell. And you said that came from the chemicals the two of you were working with?

==NOT CHEMICALS.I SAID IT WAS THE ODOR OF CANCER ITSELF. WE COULD NOT ERADICATE IT. THIS WAS A VERY POWERFUL CANCER...SLICING OPEN MICE TO EXCISE TUMORS RELEASED A DISGUSTING ODOR, IT SEEMED TO SINK INTO OUR SKINS. I TOOK SHOWERS AT NIGHT BECAUSE OF IT. LEE IS REPORTED IN MARINA AND LEE TAKING LONG BATHS EVERY NIGHT, LATER IN THE SUMMER. HE ALSO SUFFERED FROM BURPING, AND NOSEBLEEDS...

YOU WOULD BE SICK TO YOUR STOMACH, TOO, IF YOU DID WHAT WE HAD TO DO. LEE'S NOSEBLEEDS WERE A PLAGUE. TO CLEAN UP, WE USED ALCOHOL, LOTS OF ACETONE, HAD THINGS IN FORMALEDHYDE, KILLED MICE WITH ETHER, WHICH CAUSED OUR NOSEBLEEDS DUE TO DRIED-OUT MUCOUS MEMBRANES==

NOTICED THIS ONLINE:

"Yes some cancers can smell for instance throat cancer my uncle had ,and yes it was a terrible smell coming from his mouth. My mom had breast cancer ,and never went to a doctor so she was basically rotting from the inside out, and that was a really bad rotting smell.."

========================

I don't consider asking you about papyrus off-topic. To me it's an investigation of your claims. If you were to tell a lie in one section of your "story," than you could lie in other areas of your autobiography.

========================

OVERSEAS I HAVE LITTLE 'EVIDENCE,' KATHY, MY LOVELY BOOKS WERE STOLEN OR DESTROYED BY WATER POURED OVER THEM. BUT BE REASONABLE. I LEFT THE MORMON CHURCH AFTER TRANSLATING A PAPYRUS JOSEPH SMITH DID NOT TRANSLATE PROPERLY. I HAD BEEN IN THE CHURCH 17 YEARS. I LEFT HUNDREDS OF CLOSE FRIENDS AND A CHURCH, BY THE WAY, WHO HAD RESPECTED ME AND PLACED ME IN HIGH POSITIONS (FOR A WOMAN), SEVERAL FAMILIES IN THE HOUSON AREA ALSO LEFT THE CHURCH AFTER THEY HEARD ABOUT MY TRANSLATION. THEY KNEW I MADE A DECISION BASED ON MY SRICT ADHERENCE TO THE TRUTH. IT WAS 1986.

HERE, AMONG A FEW THINGS MY SON BROUGHT ME LAST FALL, I DID FIND A SCRAP OF MATHEMATICS I DID IN PTOLEMAIC DYNASTY STYLE HIEROGLYPHS, TO TEACH A SON HOW TO CALCULATE. IT WAS WITH ONE OF HIS OLD PHOTOS......I HAVE A COUPLE PAGES FROM THE INTRODUCTION OF MY HONORS THESIS ABOUT MY PROJECT -- COMPARING EGYPIAN HIEROGLYPH DEVELOPMENT THROUGH HIERATIC AND DEMOTIC FORMS WITH THE EVOLUTION OF AZTEC HIEROGLYPHS, AND THE RELATIONSHIP OF VARIOUS LINGUISTIC DYNAMICS INVOLVED TO THE PHENOMENON OF MURALISMO, WHERE MODERN HIEROGLYPHS ARE BEING CREATED IN LATIN AMERICA. LEE AND I WANTED VERY MUCH TO LIVE IN LATIN AMERICA, AND GEORGE DEMOHRENSCHILDT MENTIONS LEE'S DESIRE TO MAKE THE SAME TREK THERE AS DID GEORGE AND JEANNE ,THROUGH TO MESOAMERICA, ETC.

========================

I do not know if you are being truthful or not, but I've noticed your answers are very well written. I have a suspicion that Jim Fetzer is writing these answers for you.

==I TOLD DR. FETZER THAT TERRIBLE INSULTS WOULD COME HIS WAY IF HE INVESTIGATED ME OPENLY LIKE THIS. OTHERS DID IT SILENTLY AND SAFELY. YOU BLACKEN A FINE MAN'S NAME BY INSINUATING SUCH A HEINOUS THING. THUS, I HAVE DECIDED TO INCLUDE A PAGE OF MY WRITING TO ASSURE YOU OF MY ABILITY TO WRITE FOR MYSELF, KATHY. YOU STATED I MIGHT BE LYING, ABOVE, AND NOW YOU STATE THAT YOU SUSPECT DR. FETZER HAS WRITTEN MATERIAL FOR ME. I SIMPLY GRABBED A PAGE AT RANDOM FROM MY PAPERS. I HAVE PRESENTED PAPERS TO THE MLA [Modern Language Association], TO CONFERENCES IN LITERATURE AND LINGUISTICS, ETC. THIS PAGE IS FROM A PAPER ABOUT JAMES JOYCE AND HOW HIS MEDICAL PROBLEMS IMPACTED ULYSSES.

========================

Not making them up, but editing them because your writing differs here from your writing on Rich's forum. Especially in tone.

========================

I TOLD RICH DELLAROSA THAT I WAS QUITE ILL. HE SAID HE DID NOT BELIEVE ME. I HAD A HEAD INJURY AND BAD SHORT TERM MEMORY PROBLEMS. COULD NOT EVEN COOK FOR MYSELF SAFELY...WAS TRYING TO RECOVER. WAS ON PAINKILLERS AND STEROIDS THAT MADE ME GAIN WEIGHT (HAVE SINCE LOST 50 POUNDS). FOR LEE'S SAKE I TRIED TO ANSWER QUESTIONS BUT WAS IN PAIN. DELLAROSA SAID I WAS 'WELL ENOUGH' TO BE FILMED FOR NIGEL TURNER. MY EYES BLINK CONSTANTLY IN THAT FILM, AS I STRUGGLED WITH PAIN...I HAD BEEN IN MUCH BETTER CONDITION IN 2000 BEFORE BEING HIT TWICE BY VEHICLES IN DALLAS.

========================

Now I want to ask you another question. Some might see it as off-topic, but I don't imho. I hope I don't offend you. On the cover of one of your books -- I think Lee and Me -- there is a sexy picture of you. What were you doing in that photo? Dancing? Entertaining?

========================

IT IS SYMBOLIC OF MY HONESTY, KATHY. I HAD BEEN APPROACHED BY A TABLOID AND OFFERED A LOT OF MONEY (NOTHING LIKE THE RIDICULOUS SUM THEY CLAIM I SAY WAS OFFERED, ON ATTACK WEBSITES). BUT I WAS TEMPTED, SO I CUT THE LEGS OFF THAT PHOTO. MY SISTER AND I HAD AN ACROBATIC ACT WE PUT ON FOR CHARITIES AND TO RAISE FUNDS FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIEY. IT WAS MY COSTUME, KATHY. IN THE BOOK THERE ARE MORE PHOTOS OF ME AND MY SISTER WITH LEOTARDS ON. MY DAD TOOK THE PICTURE.

JVB

Kathy, it is no secret that I am correcting typos and making minor formatting changes on Judyth's behalf. You

do understand that she is nearly blind, needs glasses, and is using an old computer with a Hungarian keyboard?

Under these conditions, I believe that it would be very unfair to post her replies absent this kind of minor editing.

If there are differences in tone, they probably result from being so far along in having her book ready, in having

someone who is presenting her on the forum, and having more experience in dealing with these endless attacks.

I don't know Judyth's story, however, and could not possibly make up answers on her behalf even if I wanted to.

Covers of books, by the way, are controlled by publishers, whose decisions are not always affected even by the

preferences of their authors. Judyth can answer, but when they had a sexy shot from her younger days, I would

suppose it would add an additional dimension to the book cover. That is my best guess. Judyth may say more.

Judyth, do you remember when you were on Rich's forum and I had just joined, I mentioned that Marina had said, according to Norman Mailer, that Lee had body odor even when he was clean? There was always a smell. And you said that came from the chemicals the two of you were working with?

I don't consider asking you about papyrus off-topic. To me it's an investigation of your claims. If you were to tell a lie in one section of your "story," than you could lie in other areas of your autobiography.

I do not know if you are being truthful or not, but I've noticed your answers are very well written. I have a suspicion that Jim Fetzer is writing these answers for you. Not making them up, but editing them because your writing differs here from your writing on Rich's forum. Especially in tone.

Now I want to ask you another question. Some might see it as off-topic, but I don't imho. I hope I don't offend you. On the cover of one of your books -- I think Lee and Me -- there is a sexy picture of you. What were you doing in that photo? Dancing? Entertaining?

Kathy C

Edited March 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer