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Kellerman's testimony helps prove Purvis/Fetzer


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Guest James H. Fetzer

This is useful. When we read the "one in the neck" as "one in the throat" and "one in the shoulder" as the

one that hit him in the back (5.5" below the collar and to the right of the spinal column), then with the two

in the head, we have four to JFK and, "from our reports", three to Connally, which is certainly plausible and

corresponds to what our research has concluded. And, indeed, "There has got to be more than three shots!"

Your locating the entry wound at the right temple is also important because it comes from an unexpected

source. The skull flap, which Pat Speer, as I understand him, believes is the actual "blow out"--but which

is clearly NOT at the back of the head--is conspicuous here. But the blow out at the back of the head is

also NOT present here, which I would like to infer you agree is BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN COVERED-UP.

The reason I am posting about this, however, is that the line that has been drawn on the skull is not correct,

if we understand that this was a frangible (or "exploding") bullet. David Mantik analyzed this in one of his

first studies of the X-rays, where he detected a pattern of small metallic particles in the brain, where it had

entered the right temple/blew apart, setting up shock waves that blew his brains out the back of his head.

11qu5ao.jpg

What this means is that there was no bullet that entered at the right temple and exited at the back of the

head. There was a bullet that entered at the right temple and exploded, which caused shock waves that

blew his brains of the back of his head, which had already been weakened by the shot to the back of his

head that entered around the EOP, where Mantik has established its occurrence based on lead smudges.

What I find important about your discussion of Kellerman is that he is describing an entry wound at the

right temple that cannot have been fired from above and behind. Kellerman is interesting because he was

deeply involved in the cover-up (collecting the autopsy X-rays, exposed and developed; and photographs,

exposed but not developed), yet makes statements like these contradicting the official "three shot" account.

See Kellerman testimony............How many shots could there have been ?

The SS called them a “flurry “ of shots..that came into the limo..

Roy H. Kellerman-'.''

Mr. KELLERMAN. President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots.

JFK

TWO IN THE HEAD

ONE IN THE SHOULDER

ONE IN THE NECK

JC

CHEST

WRIST

THIGH

Mr. KELLERMAN. Entry into this man's head was right below that wound, right here.

Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the bottom of the hairline immediately to the right of the ear about the lower third of the ear?

How is this anything but near the right temple? "TO THE RIGHT OF THE EAR"

How is it poossible to locate something to the right of the right ear and have it be in the BACK of the head?

and do we have any idea 2which photo he is referring to?

Where is this entrance wound?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. But it was in the hairline, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. In his hairline?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Near the end of his hairline?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. What was the size of that aperture?

Mr. KELLERMAN. The little finger.

Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the diameter of the little finger.

f3withboswelldrawing.jpg

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Jim...

You are obviously married to your conclusions and the evidence you believe supports it...

Personally, I do not see these different testimonies supporting the scenario as you describe it... Chaney DID NOT MOTOR FORWARD until after he stopped and well after McIntyre...

Fixing that in time as you have requires very special FETZERVISION and removing the distinction between "fugurative" & "literal" speach.

Which early Hargis are you comparing to the WCR Hargis, recorded statements?

As there is nothing in the Dallas Archives authored by Hargis... but more probably is included in a batch of other reports?

Let me ask you ...

Do you see that a possible scenario is that in the time it takes Kellerman to call Lawson and turn... 2-3 seconds pass? (Hargis says the limo slowed AFTER the shots)

That 2-3 seconds after z313 we see both Hill and Jackie on the trunk, and I believe we see Kellerman looking back

Representative BOGGS. This was the first shot?

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.

Hill is telling us that z313 happens when he is near the back of the limo

Altgens says the headshot happens 15 feet from him

Funny thing as we ALL KNOW JIM... is that this doesnt happen until z342+

What I wold still like to understand is how the alteration of this specific instance was accomplished...

Logic and evidence tells us the headshot occured 30-40 feet further down the road... that Altgens and Brehm were correct... the limo at worst was creeping along at 2-3 mph at the time of these

headshot(s) - which I believe was one from the front, higher on the head and one from the back causing the lower damage...

HOW DID "THEY" MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF THE HEADSHOT(S) OCCURRED 30-40 FEET EAST OF WHAT WE SEE IN Z/NIX/MUCHMOORE.... STOPPED OR NOT THE SHOOTING ITSELF OCCURRED FURTHER DOWN ELM...

Jim, if you could explain that so we can understand it... it would go a long way in understanding the Zfilm alteration argument...

I do NOT WANT the history of the film and every detail... just the headshot and how what we see today ie Moorman, can be accurate while the films are not...

thanks

DJ

z342.jpg

David,

The earlier reports are almost always the more reliable. By the time they got certain witnesses before the commission, the

staff knew what they were going to say--by and large--where Kellerman has to have surprised them. You are pitting later Hargis

against earlier Hargis. But earlier Hargis is going to be more reliable: his memory was fresher, his candor less constrained, and his

testimony hangs together with that of Curry, Sorrels, Chaney, Hill, and (now) Kellerman. That powerful proof about what happened.

PERFECT ILLUSTRATION:

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, when the flurry occurred then, were you still facing forward talking into the microphone to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Mr. SPECTER. To your right this time--to your left; pardon me.

Mr. KELLERMAN. To my left; that is right. This is when I first viewed Mr. Hill, who was on the back of the--

Mr. SPECTER. Precisely where was he in that instant?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Lying right across the trunk of the car with Mrs. Kennedy on the left rear, Mr. Hill's head was right up in back of her.

Since what he is reporting obviously occurred BEFORE the limo took off and BEFORE it reached the TUP, I have supposed that you, like

me, would put Curry + Sorrels + Hargis + Chaney + Hill + Kellerman = the Zapruder film has been faked! We don't see all this in the film!

That under the pressure of testifying before the commission there would be variations from their original reports should not come as any

surprise. Their testimony was being massaged! What is important, from this point of view, is that Kellerman confirms what Hill reported.

Jim

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Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, when the flurry occurred then, were you still facing forward talking into the microphone to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Mr. SPECTER. To your right this time--to your left; pardon me.

Mr. KELLERMAN. To my left; that is right. This is when I first viewed Mr. Hill, who was on the back of the--

Mr. SPECTER. Precisely where was he in that instant?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Lying right across the trunk of the car with Mrs. Kennedy on the left rear, Mr. Hill's head was right up in back of her.

Doesn’t this suggest shots well after 313 since we KNOW Hill does not reach the limo until z340, and JAckie is not on the trunk until much later..

z342.jpg

The gif below is from z350-400... This would be the only time that Kellerman would see them both on the back of the limo...

"Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Is this how y'all see it?

DJ

For the "official" record:

The exit wound determination by the autopsy surgeons was in the vicinity of the right temple. This, when coupled with the EOP entry, makes a "left-to-right" passage of the projectile.

Yet, Dr. Boswell clearly indicated that the EOP entry and bullet pasaage was found to be from "right-to-left".

HMMMMMMM? Another of those enigma's!

Secondly, the Z313 impact merely removed the top portion of the skull of JFK as well as the "blowout" of an area of the temporal bone, as is observed in the Z-film.

The third/last/final impact in the EOP area is what completed the fracture and fragmentation (of the already weakened/compromised) skull, and this is what caused the large "blowout" in the back rear of the head as well as completion of separation of the large skull fragment which Clint Hill observed on the seat of the limo after he had made it aboard.

Tom.

P.S. Might want to read up on when Clint states that the separation of the skull bone occurred.

If recalled correctly, it was something like the time frame from when he first got a foot onto the bumper of the limo, until the time that he managed to fully mount onto the rear of the limo.

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Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, when the flurry occurred then, were you still facing forward talking into the microphone to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Mr. SPECTER. To your right this time--to your left; pardon me.

Mr. KELLERMAN. To my left; that is right. This is when I first viewed Mr. Hill, who was on the back of the--

Mr. SPECTER. Precisely where was he in that instant?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Lying right across the trunk of the car with Mrs. Kennedy on the left rear, Mr. Hill's head was right up in back of her.

Doesn’t this suggest shots well after 313 since we KNOW Hill does not reach the limo until z340, and JAckie is not on the trunk until much later..

z342.jpg

The gif below is from z350-400... This would be the only time that Kellerman would see them both on the back of the limo...

"Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Is this how y'all see it?

DJ

For the "official" record:

The exit wound determination by the autopsy surgeons was in the vicinity of the right temple. This, when coupled with the EOP entry, makes a "left-to-right" passage of the projectile.

Yet, Dr. Boswell clearly indicated that the EOP entry and bullet pasaage was found to be from "right-to-left".

HMMMMMMM? Another of those enigma's!

Secondly, the Z313 impact merely removed the top portion of the skull of JFK as well as the "blowout" of an area of the temporal bone, as is observed in the Z-film.

The third/last/final impact in the EOP area is what completed the fracture and fragmentation (of the already weakened/compromised) skull, and this is what caused the large "blowout" in the back rear of the head as well as completion of separation of the large skull fragment which Clint Hill observed on the seat of the limo after he had made it aboard.

Tom.

P.S. Might want to read up on when Clint states that the separation of the skull bone occurred.

If recalled correctly, it was something like the time frame from when he first got a foot onto the bumper of the limo, until the time that he managed to fully mount onto the rear of the limo.

P.S. Forgot to mention, there were only three shots fires, all three shots were fired from the sixth floor window of the TSDB, and all three shots struck JFK.

Plus! The Z313 impact is/was/and will always remain, Shot#2.

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Tom,

I have to respectively disagree with your conclusion of 3 shots - 3 hits. Just like asking why the shooter does not shoot as JFK approaches...

the shot that kills him IS as he approaches... from the right front. in addition to the low neck entry shot from the rear you speak of...

I just believe there were more shots fired, in sync, as directed by radio.. as many as nine in fact (3 shooters firing 3 times ea)

and have to thank you for illuminating so many things for me.

A few posts up I saw the same thing and quote Hill saying a shot arrives as he arrives at the limo, very interesting.

DJ

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Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, when the flurry occurred then, were you still facing forward talking into the microphone to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Mr. SPECTER. To your right this time--to your left; pardon me.

Mr. KELLERMAN. To my left; that is right. This is when I first viewed Mr. Hill, who was on the back of the--

Mr. SPECTER. Precisely where was he in that instant?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Lying right across the trunk of the car with Mrs. Kennedy on the left rear, Mr. Hill's head was right up in back of her.

Doesn’t this suggest shots well after 313 since we KNOW Hill does not reach the limo until z340, and JAckie is not on the trunk until much later..

z342.jpg

The gif below is from z350-400... This would be the only time that Kellerman would see them both on the back of the limo...

"Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Is this how y'all see it?

DJ

For the "official" record:

The exit wound determination by the autopsy surgeons was in the vicinity of the right temple. This, when coupled with the EOP entry, makes a "left-to-right" passage of the projectile.

Yet, Dr. Boswell clearly indicated that the EOP entry and bullet pasaage was found to be from "right-to-left".

HMMMMMMM? Another of those enigma's!

Secondly, the Z313 impact merely removed the top portion of the skull of JFK as well as the "blowout" of an area of the temporal bone, as is observed in the Z-film.

The third/last/final impact in the EOP area is what completed the fracture and fragmentation (of the already weakened/compromised) skull, and this is what caused the large "blowout" in the back rear of the head as well as completion of separation of the large skull fragment which Clint Hill observed on the seat of the limo after he had made it aboard.

Tom.

P.S. Might want to read up on when Clint states that the separation of the skull bone occurred.

If recalled correctly, it was something like the time frame from when he first got a foot onto the bumper of the limo, until the time that he managed to fully mount onto the rear of the limo.

P.S. Forgot to mention, there were only three shots fires, all three shots were fired from the sixth floor window of the TSDB, and all three shots struck JFK.

Plus! The Z313 impact is/was/and will always remain, Shot#2.

You cannot be absolutely certain there were only 3 shots lol. I am personally inclined to believe there were far more.

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Tom Purvis believes that Lee Harvey Oswald was a crack shot, the carcano was a good weapon and that he fired all the shots at JFK in Dallas. Without batting an eye, he also maintains that the Warren Commission "covered up." Since he agrees with all their ridiculous conclusions, it's very hard to figure out what he's talking about. They claim Oswald did it. Tom claims Oswald did it. So they are in agreement.

To top it all off, Tom is a film aterationist. If any of you can figure out how to reconcile all of these mystifying, contradictory sets of beliefs, please enlighten the rest of us.

Tom Purvis continues to inexplicably receive far more respect from nearly everyone on this forum than someone like Jim Fetzer does. Why do you scoff at Fetzer, let take seriously someone like Tom Purvis?

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Tom Purvis believes that Lee Harvey Oswald was a crack shot, the carcano was a good weapon and that he fired all the shots at JFK in Dallas. Without batting an eye, he also maintains that the Warren Commission "covered up." Since he agrees with all their ridiculous conclusions, it's very hard to figure out what he's talking about. They claim Oswald did it. Tom claims Oswald did it. So they are in agreement.

To top it all off, Tom is a film aterationist. If any of you can figure out how to reconcile all of these mystifying, contradictory sets of beliefs, please enlighten the rest of us.

Tom Purvis continues to inexplicably receive far more respect from nearly everyone on this forum than someone like Jim Fetzer does. Why do you scoff at Fetzer, let take seriously someone like Tom Purvis?

Hi Don...

"illuminating" subjects for me... ie the survey data mistakes and cover-up, deserves respect.... it is a very well done analysis that supposrts and makes sense of testimony at the scene.... but I do believe hew stops short BECAUSE of his conlcusions....

How he can quote Altgens yet not hear Brehm and Hargis and Hill describe skull being propelled back and to the left of JFK... along with all the other witnesses and the group that storms the GK.... Curry AND Decker sending men immediiately to the RR yard and overpass... etc..

And in our discussion over what Kleins sent customers who ordered c20-T750.. he readily admits that there is no evidence that any other customer ordering THAT item number rec'd the same type of rifle found in the TSBD... none.

I indeed find him cryptic, eccentric, and very interesting. While presenting the data and evidence from which he bases his conclusions...

The world accroding to FETZVISION and the wrath endured just to discuss anything with him is nauseating. IMO, HE'S one of the main reasons JFK CTs are not taken seriously on a grand scale... he'd rather fight you over Oswald in the Doorway... or Chaney motoring up much too soon... then discuss the evidence he offers and realize some of the holes in the logic, support and conclusions... I agree with much he concludes, like others, which makes his treatment all the more disturbing and deconstructive.

yet again.... until the world was PROVEN round... you were seen as crazy if you said so... Jim MAY be in great company - and maybe time will tell.

Cheers

DJ

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Tom,

I have to respectively disagree with your conclusion of 3 shots - 3 hits. Just like asking why the shooter does not shoot as JFK approaches...

the shot that kills him IS as he approaches... from the right front. in addition to the low neck entry shot from the rear you speak of...

I just believe there were more shots fired, in sync, as directed by radio.. as many as nine in fact (3 shooters firing 3 times ea)

and have to thank you for illuminating so many things for me.

A few posts up I saw the same thing and quote Hill saying a shot arrives as he arrives at the limo, very interesting.

DJ

As to shooting as JFK approached the TSDB, this one has been "beat to death" multiple, multiple times.

It would have been one of the most difficult shots to attempt to achieve due to a variety of reasons.

As to the number of shooters, for all I know there may have been 47 or more.

Just that JFK was hit by ONLY the three shots that were fired from the sixth floor of the TSDB.

Guess all of those others were worse shots than was LHO (purportedly)

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Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, when the flurry occurred then, were you still facing forward talking into the microphone to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Mr. SPECTER. To your right this time--to your left; pardon me.

Mr. KELLERMAN. To my left; that is right. This is when I first viewed Mr. Hill, who was on the back of the--

Mr. SPECTER. Precisely where was he in that instant?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Lying right across the trunk of the car with Mrs. Kennedy on the left rear, Mr. Hill's head was right up in back of her.

Doesn’t this suggest shots well after 313 since we KNOW Hill does not reach the limo until z340, and JAckie is not on the trunk until much later..

z342.jpg

The gif below is from z350-400... This would be the only time that Kellerman would see them both on the back of the limo...

"Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Is this how y'all see it?

DJ

For the "official" record:

The exit wound determination by the autopsy surgeons was in the vicinity of the right temple. This, when coupled with the EOP entry, makes a "left-to-right" passage of the projectile.

Yet, Dr. Boswell clearly indicated that the EOP entry and bullet pasaage was found to be from "right-to-left".

HMMMMMMM? Another of those enigma's!

Secondly, the Z313 impact merely removed the top portion of the skull of JFK as well as the "blowout" of an area of the temporal bone, as is observed in the Z-film.

The third/last/final impact in the EOP area is what completed the fracture and fragmentation (of the already weakened/compromised) skull, and this is what caused the large "blowout" in the back rear of the head as well as completion of separation of the large skull fragment which Clint Hill observed on the seat of the limo after he had made it aboard.

Tom.

P.S. Might want to read up on when Clint states that the separation of the skull bone occurred.

If recalled correctly, it was something like the time frame from when he first got a foot onto the bumper of the limo, until the time that he managed to fully mount onto the rear of the limo.

P.S. Forgot to mention, there were only three shots fires, all three shots were fired from the sixth floor window of the TSDB, and all three shots struck JFK.

Plus! The Z313 impact is/was/and will always remain, Shot#2.

You cannot be absolutely certain there were only 3 shots lol. I am personally inclined to believe there were far more.

Nope! But I can be damned sure that JFK was hit by ONLY the three shots fired from the sixth floor of the TSDB.

Perhaps one should begin to carefully review the Zapruder film (& other photographic evidence) in attempt to see if any of these other mythological "shooters" were merely killing pidgeons.

They most certainly could not have been shooting at JFK and ALL of them missed everyone as well as that big car.

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Tom Purvis believes that Lee Harvey Oswald was a crack shot, the carcano was a good weapon and that he fired all the shots at JFK in Dallas. Without batting an eye, he also maintains that the Warren Commission "covered up." Since he agrees with all their ridiculous conclusions, it's very hard to figure out what he's talking about. They claim Oswald did it. Tom claims Oswald did it. So they are in agreement.

To top it all off, Tom is a film aterationist. If any of you can figure out how to reconcile all of these mystifying, contradictory sets of beliefs, please enlighten the rest of us.

Tom Purvis continues to inexplicably receive far more respect from nearly everyone on this forum than someone like Jim Fetzer does. Why do you scoff at Fetzer, let take seriously someone like Tom Purvis?

Why?

Because factually, it is completely irrelevant as to what Tom Purvis "believes".

All that matters is what the forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical facts support.

Which by the way, have and will continue to demonstrate that LHO was in fact a superior shot, just as is the Model 91/38 (or the Model 38) Carcano a weapon of superior accuracy.

As to whether LHO was or was not the shooter????? Since I was in Ohio working at the time, my "crystal ball" would not cover the distance to Dallas.

LHO most assuredly had the ability to achieve what was achieved!------Three shot, three hits.

But then again, in event that someone was going to make LHO the "designated rabbit", it is most unlikely that they would have chosen someone who could not achieve this relatively simple shooting feat.

Lastly, for someone who is of the opinion that they know me so well, you are certainly in error in thinking that I believe the "ridiculous conclusions" of the Warren Commission.

For the "OFFICIAL RECORD"-----The Warren Commission is an intentional obfuscation of the simple facts of the assassination. AKA:----A lie!

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This is useful. When we read the "one in the neck" as "one in the throat" and "one in the shoulder" as the

one that hit him in the back (5.5" below the collar and to the right of the spinal column), then with the two

in the head, we have four to JFK and, "from our reports", three to Connally, which is certainly plausible and

corresponds to what our research has concluded. And, indeed, "There has got to be more than three shots!"

Your locating the entry wound at the right temple is also important because it comes from an unexpected

source. The skull flap, which Pat Speer, as I understand him, believes is the actual "blow out"--but which

is clearly NOT at the back of the head--is conspicuous here. But the blow out at the back of the head is

also NOT present here, which I would like to infer you agree is BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN COVERED-UP.

The reason I am posting about this, however, is that the line that has been drawn on the skull is not correct,

if we understand that this was a frangible (or "exploding") bullet. David Mantik analyzed this in one of his

first studies of the X-rays, where he detected a pattern of small metallic particles in the brain, where it had

entered the right temple/blew apart, setting up shock waves that blew his brains out the back of his head.

11qu5ao.jpg

What this means is that there was no bullet that entered at the right temple and exited at the back of the

head. There was a bullet that entered at the right temple and exploded, which caused shock waves that

blew his brains of the back of his head, which had already been weakened by the shot to the back of his

head that entered around the EOP, where Mantik has established its occurrence based on lead smudges.

What I find important about your discussion of Kellerman is that he is describing an entry wound at the

right temple that cannot have been fired from above and behind. Kellerman is interesting because he was

deeply involved in the cover-up (collecting the autopsy X-rays, exposed and developed; and photographs,

exposed but not developed), yet makes statements like these contradicting the official "three shot" account.

You need to get up to speed, Jim. Mantik is now claiming the "lead smudge" was up at the top of the head. He moved the location of the smudge between slides during his 2009 presentation. When I pointed this out and presumed the second slide was in error, he doubled down and said he'd changed his mind and that the second one was in fact correct.

Thefloatingdebris.jpg

As Mantik now claims the location of the smudge on his "Overhead View of Human Skull" slide is correct, it means it was incorrect in his earlier slide, and no longer by the EOP. Sorry to bear the bad news.

Edited by Pat Speer
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Tom Purvis believes that Lee Harvey Oswald was a crack shot, the carcano was a good weapon and that he fired all the shots at JFK in Dallas. Without batting an eye, he also maintains that the Warren Commission "covered up." Since he agrees with all their ridiculous conclusions, it's very hard to figure out what he's talking about. They claim Oswald did it. Tom claims Oswald did it. So they are in agreement.

To top it all off, Tom is a film aterationist. If any of you can figure out how to reconcile all of these mystifying, contradictory sets of beliefs, please enlighten the rest of us.

Tom Purvis continues to inexplicably receive far more respect from nearly everyone on this forum than someone like Jim Fetzer does. Why do you scoff at Fetzer, let take seriously someone like Tom Purvis?

Hi Don...

"illuminating" subjects for me... ie the survey data mistakes and cover-up, deserves respect.... it is a very well done analysis that supposrts and makes sense of testimony at the scene.... but I do believe hew stops short BECAUSE of his conlcusions....

How he can quote Altgens yet not hear Brehm and Hargis and Hill describe skull being propelled back and to the left of JFK... along with all the other witnesses and the group that storms the GK.... Curry AND Decker sending men immediiately to the RR yard and overpass... etc..

And in our discussion over what Kleins sent customers who ordered c20-T750.. he readily admits that there is no evidence that any other customer ordering THAT item number rec'd the same type of rifle found in the TSBD... none.

I indeed find him cryptic, eccentric, and very interesting. While presenting the data and evidence from which he bases his conclusions...

The world accroding to FETZVISION and the wrath endured just to discuss anything with him is nauseating. IMO, HE'S one of the main reasons JFK CTs are not taken seriously on a grand scale... he'd rather fight you over Oswald in the Doorway... or Chaney motoring up much too soon... then discuss the evidence he offers and realize some of the holes in the logic, support and conclusions... I agree with much he concludes, like others, which makes his treatment all the more disturbing and deconstructive.

yet again.... until the world was PROVEN round... you were seen as crazy if you said so... Jim MAY be in great company - and maybe time will tell.

Cheers

DJ

1. The "back & to the left has been correctly & fully explained by those who are far more an "EXPERT" in this field than am I.

It happens to be simple physical fact when the exit wound to the head is fully examined.

2. Since, from an extremely reliable source, Klein's was undoubtedly a "CIA Front" arms dealer, the obfuscation of facts related to the acquisition of Carcano weapons by Klein's as well as their sale/disposal, is an understandable aspect of how the illicit arms supply (to revolutions & freedom fighters) was accomplished.

Which, with LHO's prior activities of leaving his "scent" here, there, and everywhere, falls within the logic as to exactly why the/a Carcano was ordered from Klein's.

And, that does not even take into consideration the usage of the WCC Carcano bullets.

Tom

P.S. One should not require a "one-time-pad" to decipher that!

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Tom,

I have to respectively disagree with your conclusion of 3 shots - 3 hits. Just like asking why the shooter does not shoot as JFK approaches...

the shot that kills him IS as he approaches... from the right front. in addition to the low neck entry shot from the rear you speak of...

I just believe there were more shots fired, in sync, as directed by radio.. as many as nine in fact (3 shooters firing 3 times ea)

and have to thank you for illuminating so many things for me.

A few posts up I saw the same thing and quote Hill saying a shot arrives as he arrives at the limo, very interesting.

DJ

Clint Hill/aka the "running & Rising man.

Might want to check out his first attempt at placement of a foot onto the rear bumper of the Presidential Limo and exactly how far he got with this attempt (as seen in the Z-film)

Thereafter, one just may want to compare the Z-film with the Nix film.

Tom

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Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, when the flurry occurred then, were you still facing forward talking into the microphone to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right.

Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Mr. SPECTER. To your right this time--to your left; pardon me.

Mr. KELLERMAN. To my left; that is right. This is when I first viewed Mr. Hill, who was on the back of the--

Mr. SPECTER. Precisely where was he in that instant?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Lying right across the trunk of the car with Mrs. Kennedy on the left rear, Mr. Hill's head was right up in back of her.

Doesn’t this suggest shots well after 313 since we KNOW Hill does not reach the limo until z340, and JAckie is not on the trunk until much later..

z342.jpg

The gif below is from z350-400... This would be the only time that Kellerman would see them both on the back of the limo...

"Mr. SPECTER. All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. KELLERMAN. When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Is this how y'all see it?

DJ

Unfortunately, it does not "prove" anything.

It does however serve to support the other testimonies as to when the third shot impact occurred.

In fact, if one will correlate the testimonies of Kellerman and Greer regarding transmission over the radio, with the testimonies of Agent Hill, they will find other testimonies which, when all placed into perspective, will serve to indicat that the third shot impact occurred just as James Altgens said it did.

Directly in front of where he was standing.

Tom

P.S. And of course Nellie as well as JBC have repeatedly stated that the third shot impact which blew cerebral tissue all over them, occurred AFTER JBC was leaned over in the seat with his head in Nellie's lap.

From this, and the survey plats and survey notes in my possession, it would now appear that the Warren Commission was severely lacking in their attempt at making one of the three shots (the third shot) disappear.

As is usually the case, I don't really understand what you're getting at.

Which shot are you saying Connally was struck by and when did it occur on the Z film?

1. Fragment from the Z313 jfk headshot to JBC's outstretched right arm.

2. The one and only true "magic"* bullet thereafter striking him in the right rear shoulder after he was laying over exposing his back and right shoulder between the open area of the jump seats.

*It went through JFK's head first, prior to exiting downward and striking JBC, and thereafter has done an excellent job of "disappearing'.

Tom

P.S. Certainly glad that I never believed much of anything that the WC had to say. Especially that "circle jerk" reasoning regarding "THE SHOT THAT MISSED"!

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