Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[Dawn Meredith]

I knew it. She's not only a xxxx, but an "old maid".

not sure how the word I posted "xxxx" became xxxx

[Dawn Meredith]

I knew it. She's not only a xxxx, but an "old maid".

not sure how the word I posted "xxxx" became xxxx

Ok will try this again will change the word to "untruthful"

[Thomas Graves]

What I don't get about what Dawn calls this 'damning evidence' is that we have to believe Kittrell when she asserts that documents she filled out and remembered clearly subsequently disappeared. What I would appreciate from the H and L folks is a simple guide to actual documents, not Kittrell testimony after the fact, that supports her memories of two distinct Oswalds.

Is there actual documented evidence that Oswald the teenager lived in California? I use Oswald in the singular on purpose. For the sake of this argument I don't care which Oswald.

Paul,

Of course all the Fort Worth TEC documents on The Two Oswalds disappeared the day after the assassination. We just have to take Kittrell's word for everything that went on there, don't we.

--Tommy

Edited June 28, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

From Harvey and Lee, selected pages from 707-738:

[...]

Jim,

Why didn't you post the whole book?

LOL

Kittrell was a bit of a nut case, described as a "frustrated old maid" and somewhat "squirrelly" by her boss.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60400&search=kittrell#relPageId=196&tab=page

She thought some voting machines in Dallas had been purposefully broken and persistently insisted that the FBI correct the problem.

One-and-one-half years after the assassination, she sent a rambling, handwritten (and literally slanted) fourteen-page letter to Attorney General Robert Kennedy about her experiences regarding "The Two Oswalds" at the Fort Worth TEC.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60400&search=kittrell#relPageId=203&tab=page

She doesn't come across as a credible witness to me.

BTW, The guy in the black motorcycle jacket does sound like Larry Crafard, although Kittrell doesn't say anything about his missing front teeth. Maybe she found that so gosh darn unpleasant to look at that she blotted it out from her old maid memory. Or maybe Crafard didn't smile much or open his mouth very much when he spoke.

The long-sleeved motorcycle jacket would have covered his tattoos, wouldn't it.

You quoted Armstrong:

"In early October (probably October 8th) Laura was interviewing a colored woman who wanted to quit domestic employment and find work as a trainee in an electronics factory. During the interview the woman told Laura that she used to work as a maid for [...] Murray Chotiner in California."

Why would the black lady "drop" Chotiner's name unless Chotiner was well known outside of California, too, and the lady thought the fact she had worked for him would impress Kittrell?

Chotiner was already well known when he was Nixon's vice presidential campaign manager during the 1952 elections, and would have received national "press" in that regard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Chotiner

Also, an infamous double murder occurred in attorney / former Nixon campaign manager Chotiner's office in July of 1957, and it received a lot of publicity immediately afterwards and during the trial, at which Chotiner was a major witness. Chotinier was even considered a suspect for a while.

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/2d/174/281.html

Lastly, why did Kitterell express in her June, 1965, letter to RFK that she had been very reluctant to mention the Fort Worth TEC "Chotiner incident" in it if not for the fact that Kitterell was already aware of Chotinier's notoriety and knew that many other people were aware of it, too?

Therefore, it's not surprising that the guy in the black motorcycle jacket had heard of Chotiner, especially if that guy was Larry Crafard, employee of Jack Ruby, whom some say was introduced to Nixon by Chotinier in 1947.

http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/fact-check/fact-check-did-richard-nixon-know-jack-ruby/

You know, Jim, I'm starting to think that Larry Crafard and The Two Oswalds were chosen many, many years earlier to participate in the Harvey and Lee and Larry tripleganger project because they all looked so much alike.

LOL

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited June 28, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Jim Hargrove]

From Harvey and Lee, selected pages from 707-738:

[...]

Jim,

Why didn't you post the whole book?

LOL

Kittrell was a bit of a nut case, described as a "frustrated old maid" and somewhat "squirrelly" by her boss.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60400&search=kittrell#relPageId=196&tab=page

She thought some voting machines in Dallas had been purposefully broken and persistently insisted that the FBI correct the problem.

One-and-one-half years after the assassination, she sent a rambling, handwritten (and literally slanted) fourteen-page letter to Attorney General Robert Kennedy about her experiences regarding "The Two Oswalds" at the Fort Worth TEC.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60400&search=kittrell#relPageId=203&tab=page

She doesn't come across as a credible witness to me.

BTW, The guy in the black motorcycle jacket does sound like Larry Crafard, although Kittrell doesn't say anything about his missing front teeth. Maybe she found that so gosh darn unpleasant to look at that she blotted it out from her old maid memory. Or maybe Crafard didn't smile much or open his mouth very much when he spoke.

The long-sleeved motorcycle jacket would have covered his tattoos, wouldn't it.

You quoted Armstrong:

"In early October (probably October 8th) Laura was interviewing a colored woman who wanted to quit domestic employment and find work as a trainee in an electronics factory. During the interview the woman told Laura that she used to work as a maid for [...] Murray Chotiner in California."

Why would the black lady "drop" Chotiner's name unless Chotiner was well known outside of California, too, and the lady thought the fact she had worked for him would impress Kittrell?

Chotiner was already well known when he was Nixon's vice presidential campaign manager during the 1952 elections, and would have received national "press" in that regard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Chotiner

Also, an infamous double murder occurred in attorney / former Nixon campaign manager Chotiner's office in July of 1957, and it received a lot of publicity immediately afterwards and during the trial, at which Chotiner was a major witness. Chotinier was even considered a suspect for a while.

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/2d/174/281.html

Lastly, why did Kitterell express in her June, 1965, letter to RFK that she had been very reluctant to mention the Fort Worth TEC "Chotiner incident" in it if not for the fact that Kitterell was already aware of Chotinier's notoriety and knew that many other people were aware of it, too?

Therefore, it's not surprising that the guy in the black motorcycle jacket had heard of Chotiner, especially if that guy was Larry Crafard, employee of Jack Ruby, whom some say was introduced to Nixon by Chotinier in 1947.

http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/fact-check/fact-check-did-richard-nixon-know-jack-ruby/

You know, Jim, I'm starting to think that Larry Crafard and The Two Oswalds were chosen many, many years earlier to participate in the Harvey and Lee and Larry tripleganger project because they all looked so much alike.

LOL

--Tommy

edited and bumped

You say Ms. Kittrell "was a bit of a nut case," but that is your description, not that of her boss. Being a "frustrated old maid" and "squirrelly" is hardly a description of a "nut case."

I'm shocked, SHOCKED that anyone would think voting machines in Big City elections could POSSIBLY be rigged!

She did indeed send a fourteen page later to Robert Kennedy about her interview of the two men claiming to be Lee Harvey Oswald. You offer this information in an attempt to impeach her?

You say "maybe Crafard didn't smile much or open his mouth," but Kittrell said the second Oswald laughed so loudly everyone in her office could hear him.

You ask, "Why would the black lady 'drop' Chotiner's name unless Chotiner was well known outside of California?" BECAUSE HE WAS HER EMPLOYER! It was a job reference!

Can you name the campaign manager of any vice presedential candidate ever, other than Chotiner? Doesn't sound very famous to me. Chotiner also worked for a California Republican Senator named Knowland and was an ALTERNATE delegate to the Republican National Convention in Chicago. Wow! There's national fame!

Kittrell probably referred to the "Chotiner incident" because the mention of that name by the black woman is what started the incident with the first Oswald (Harvey).

Edited June 28, 2015 by Jim Hargrove

[Jim Hargrove]

I knew it. She's not only a xxxx, but an "old maid".

not sure how the word I posted "xxxx" became xxxx

Ok will try this again will change the word to "untruthful"

Pretty much as predicted, Dawn. This machine censoring is pretty strange!

[Thomas Graves]

From Harvey and Lee, selected pages from 707-738:

[...]

Jim,

Why didn't you post the whole book?

LOL

Kittrell was a bit of a nut case, described as a "frustrated old maid" and somewhat "squirrelly" by her boss.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60400&search=kittrell#relPageId=196&tab=page

She thought some voting machines in Dallas had been purposefully broken and persistently insisted that the FBI correct the problem.

One-and-one-half years after the assassination, she sent a rambling, handwritten (and literally slanted) fourteen-page letter to Attorney General Robert Kennedy about her experiences regarding "The Two Oswalds" at the Fort Worth TEC.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60400&search=kittrell#relPageId=203&tab=page

She doesn't come across as a credible witness to me.

BTW, The guy in the black motorcycle jacket does sound like Larry Crafard, although Kittrell doesn't say anything about his missing front teeth. Maybe she found that so gosh darn unpleasant to look at that she blotted it out from her old maid memory. Or maybe Crafard didn't smile much or open his mouth very much when he spoke.

The long-sleeved motorcycle jacket would have covered his tattoos, wouldn't it.

You quoted Armstrong:

"In early October (probably October 8th) Laura was interviewing a colored woman who wanted to quit domestic employment and find work as a trainee in an electronics factory. During the interview the woman told Laura that she used to work as a maid for [...] Murray Chotiner in California."

Why would the black lady "drop" Chotiner's name unless Chotiner was well known outside of California, too, and the lady thought the fact she had worked for him would impress Kittrell?

Chotiner was already well known when he was Nixon's vice presidential campaign manager during the 1952 elections, and would have received national "press" in that regard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Chotiner

Also, an infamous double murder occurred in attorney / former Nixon campaign manager Chotiner's office in July of 1957, and it received a lot of publicity immediately afterwards and during the trial, at which Chotiner was a major witness. Chotinier was even considered a suspect for a while.

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/2d/174/281.html

Lastly, why did Kitterell express in her June, 1965, letter to RFK that she had been very reluctant to mention the Fort Worth TEC "Chotiner incident" in it if not for the fact that Kitterell was already aware of Chotinier's notoriety and knew that many other people were aware of it, too?

Therefore, it's not surprising that the guy in the black motorcycle jacket had heard of Chotiner, especially if that guy was Larry Crafard, employee of Jack Ruby, whom some say was introduced to Nixon by Chotinier in 1947.

http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/fact-check/fact-check-did-richard-nixon-know-jack-ruby/

You know, Jim, I'm starting to think that Larry Crafard and The Two Oswalds were chosen many, many years earlier to participate in the Harvey and Lee and Larry tripleganger project because they all looked so much alike.

LOL

--Tommy

edited and bumped

You say Ms. Kittrell "was a bit of a nut case," but that is your description, not that of her boss. Being a "frustrated old maid" and "squirrelly" is hardly a description of a "nut case."

I'm shocked, SHOCKED that anyone would think voting machines in Big City elections could POSSIBLY be rigged!

She did indeed send a fourteen page later to Robert Kennedy about her interview of the two men claiming to be Lee Harvey Oswald. You offer this information in an attempt to impeach her?

You say "maybe Crafard didn't smile much or open his mouth," but Kittrell said the second Oswald laughed so loudly everyone in her office could hear him.

You ask, "Why would the black lady 'drop' Chotiner's name unless Chotiner was well known outside of California?" BECAUSE HE WAS HER EMPLOYER! It was a job reference!

Can you name the campaign manager of any vice presedential candidate ever, other than Chotiner? Doesn't sound very famous to me. Chotiner also worked for a California Republican Senator named Knowland and was an ALTERNATE delegate to the Republican National Convention in Chicago. Wow! There's national fame!

Kittrell probably referred to the "Chotiner incident" because the mention of that name by the black woman is what started the incident with the first Oswald (Harvey).

Jim,

How many successful Vice Presidential campaign managers have also had, a few years later, a double homicide committed in their office by one of their law clients?

Why was Ms. Kittrell so darn worried about mentioning "Maury Chotiner" in her 1965 letter to RFK?

Because he was so unknown?

--Tommy

Edited June 30, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Jim Hargrove]

From the 12/5/63 Village Voice:

Villagers Report Oswald Was Here

The Voice has learned that a number of proprietors of Greenwich Village establishments have been given photographs by the FBI of a youthful right-winger who has spent considerable time in the Village.

The subject of the photographs has been identified as Stephen L'eandes, a native of Wiggins, Mississippi. The FBI is checking out information that Lee Harvey Oswald, alleged assassin of President Kennedy, had spent time in Greenwich Village reputedly in the company of L' eandes. L' eandes has not yet been located. The FBI is apparently eager to fill out the details of Oswald's life.

Meanwhile, reports have been snowballing that Oswald actually lived in the Village for a time since his return from Russia. A number of people insist they knew Oswald, but informants present their story via the telephone and have generally avoided direct contact with the FBI and the newspapers. One rumor links Oswald with a Village psychotherapist whose card Oswald was allegedly carrying at the time he was picked up by the Dallas police.

Village Voice reporters may not have known that Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald and his new family arrived in NYC aboard the Maasdam on June 13, 1962 and were already at Love Field in Dallas the very next day. Funny how those "snowballing" reports all disappeared.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Jim Hargrove

[W. Tracy Parnell]

From the 12/5/63 Village Voice:

Villagers Report Oswald Was Here

The Voice has learned that a number of proprietors of Greenwich Village establishments have been given photographs by the FBI of a youthful right-winger who has spent considerable time in the Village.

The subject of the photographs has been identified as Stephen L'eandes, a native of Wiggins, Mississippi. The FBI is checking out information that Lee Harvey Oswald, alleged assassin of President Kennedy, had spent time in Greenwich Village reputedly in the company of L' eandes. L' eandes has not yet been located. The FBI is apparently eager to fill out the details of Oswald's life.

Meanwhile, reports have been snowballing that Oswald actually lived in the Village for a time since his return from Russia. A number of people insist they knew Oswald, but informants present their story via the telephone and have generally avoided direct contact with the FBI and the newspapers. One rumor links Oswald with a Village psychotherapist whose card Oswald was allegedly carrying at the time he was picked up by the Dallas police.

Village Voice reporters may not have known that Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald and his new family arrived in NYC aboard the Maasdam on June 13, 1962 and were already at Love Field in Dallas the very next day. Funny how those "snowballing" reports all disappeared.

I know one thing for sure-we won't be hearing anything about the psychotherapist mentioned above in relation to H&L since "Harvey" is not in NYC unless he stopped by for a checkup in the very brief time he was in the city. Of course the H&L crowd claim to be unaware of the concept of false sightings or unfounded rumors. In the just completed manhunt in NY I believe the number of tips from the public ended up at 2200 and the number of those that were actually correct were 2.

[David G. Healy]

From the 12/5/63 Village Voice:

Villagers Report Oswald Was Here

The Voice has learned that a number of proprietors of Greenwich Village establishments have been given photographs by the FBI of a youthful right-winger who has spent considerable time in the Village.

The subject of the photographs has been identified as Stephen L'eandes, a native of Wiggins, Mississippi. The FBI is checking out information that Lee Harvey Oswald, alleged assassin of President Kennedy, had spent time in Greenwich Village reputedly in the company of L' eandes. L' eandes has not yet been located. The FBI is apparently eager to fill out the details of Oswald's life.

Meanwhile, reports have been snowballing that Oswald actually lived in the Village for a time since his return from Russia. A number of people insist they knew Oswald, but informants present their story via the telephone and have generally avoided direct contact with the FBI and the newspapers. One rumor links Oswald with a Village psychotherapist whose card Oswald was allegedly carrying at the time he was picked up by the Dallas police.

Village Voice reporters may not have known that Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald and his new family arrived in NYC aboard the Maasdam on June 13, 1962 and were already at Love Field in Dallas the very next day. Funny how those "snowballing" reports all disappeared.

I know one thing for sure-we won't be hearing anything about the psychotherapist mentioned above in relation to H&L since "Harvey" is not in NYC unless he stopped by for a checkup in the very brief time he was in the city. Of course the H&L crowd claim to be unaware of the concept of false sightings or unfounded rumors. In the just completed manhunt in NY I believe the number of tips from the public ended up at 2200 and the number of those that were actually correct were 2.

apples to oranges.... focus son!

[Jim Hargrove]

CLAIRE BOOTH LUCE AND

AMERICAN-BORN LEE OSWALD

In the early 1960s, soon after Fidel Castro's 1959 takeover of Cuba, Clare Boothe Luce (and her husband, Life Magazine magnate Henry Luce) began to sponsor anti-Castro groups. This support, according to Wikipedia, included funding exiles in commando speedboat raids against Cuba in the early 1960s. A number of reports seem to indicate that American-born Lee Oswald was involved in some of these activities, at the same time Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was in Russia and then back home in New Orleans and Texas.

Excerpts of several documents below are from the John Armstrong collection at Baylor University. The OCR scans of these somewhat grainy pages are a little rough, but interested readers can always look at reproductions of the actual docs by clicking on this link:

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/4801/rec/1

From an FBI report dated 6/2/75 (Emphasis added by me):

=================== QUOTE ON =================

On 5/16/75 at 6:30 pm Deputy Attorney General Tyler

advised Inspector John B. Hotis and SA Paul V. Daly that he had received Information from Roderic Hills, Assistant Counsel to the President, that the Commission on CIA Activities was making an inquiry into a facet of the investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald, assassin of President Kennedy, and he requested that the FBI review its files to determine if any factual basis existed for these allegations. Mr. Tyler stated that one of these allegations recelved was that former Congresswoman Clare Boothe Luce had been financing a fishing boat to transport Cuban citizens from Cuba to Miami, Florida. This was in the period of 1960-61 and Mr. Tyler later stated the time frame was 1961 to 1962. The Captain of the ship allegedly advised Mrs. Luce that Lee Harvey Oswald and others were involved in the infiltration of a communist cell group in that area and had discussed assassination plans with no assassination target identified. Mrs. Luce instructed the Captain to notify the FBI and he later told her that he had done so and was leaving the country.

=================== QUOTE OFF ===============

Another report is labeled Notes from 1977 Inspector General's Report

Taken by Betsy Palmer, 12/6/77

=================== QUOTE ON ===============

1. Memo for Director of Central Intelligence

From: John H. Waller, Inspector General

Subject: President Kennedy Assassination - Mrs. Luce story

At behest of Director Colby, Mrs. Luce passed the story

on to Senator Richard Schweiker. On 10 December 1975,

staff member of Senate Select Committee inquired as to

what the Agency thought of the story and was told it

had nothing to add to the newspaper story of Betty Beale

and suggested FBI would be the proper agency to contact.

Mrs. Luce's actual transcript could be considered news-

worthy and presented in a manner determental to CIA.

FBI was sent transcript in January 1977.

2. Transcript of telephone conversation, October 25, 1975,

Clare Booth Luce (CBL) call to William Colby (WC).

CBL got involved during and after the Bay of Pigs with

DRE. Up until the Cuban Missile Crisis when "Allen"

called her and told the secret Act had gone into effect

and that henceforth there would be no voluntary American

efforts. "I knew a number of these leaders well; they

were going in and out of Cuba, and I paid for one of the

motor boats. Bill Pawley did too." ... "The night of

the assassination, right after Oswald was caught, one

of my boys telephoned me from New Orleans." — he was

captian of "her" boat ... the Cubans were told to leave

Miami. ..."he had opened a cell in New Orleans. He

telephoned me to tell me that Oswald was ...a hired gun;

Oswald had tried to penetrate their little cell; that

they turned around and did a counter penetration 30b on

Oswald; all of this was done several months before the

assassination. He said, "we had tape recordings of

what he was telling his groups." It was a counter

penetration they went on. He said, "We have photographs

of Oswald passing out handbills on the street, "Be Fair

to Cuba." He said, "We are absolutely certain that

Oswald was one of three assassination teams, that they

were working out of Mexico City 9or funded in Mexico

City) by Castro. "He said there were three assassinations

teams." CBL told him to give the information to the FBI.

After Garrison investigation came up, Luce began thinking

about the incident again. She called Justin McCarthy

to ge name of Cuban -- he was now in Miami. Got him on

the phone and he told CBL that FBI took all tapes, photos

and "told us to keep our mouths shut, and shortly after

that they informed us that if any of us talked to the press dire things would happen." Said one of the fellows on boat was deported to Guatemala or Chile, and one was

murdered. Said he was now a lawyer, had two children,

making way in Miami and never wants to hear a damn word

about the assassination of Kennedy because you Americans

really do not want to know the truth."

============== QUOTE OFF ================

Again, scans of these documents can be downloaded from the John Armstrong Collection at Baylor University at this url:

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/4801/rec/1

Edited June 30, 2015 by Jim Hargrove

[Larry Hancock]

Jim, I'm sure you know this but for newcomers its important to keep in mind that that within hours of the assassination every exile group and all their fellow travelers were reaching out to any contact they could find to promote

the story that Oswald was a Castro agent of some sort and acting for him in the assassination. The story line she was given is at least consistent with all the others...and then of course all their "hard evidence" never

seemed to jell. Actually there are FBI reports on some telling much the same story, such as the stories from Sturgis and Martino. We actually have FBI reports on many of those informants - did you ever find anyting

in the FBI files relating to the purported info provided by her boat guys?

[Jim Hargrove]

Jim, I'm sure you know this but for newcomers its important to keep in mind that that within hours of the assassination every exile group and all their fellow travelers were reaching out to any contact they could find to promote

the story that Oswald was a Castro agent of some sort and acting for him in the assassination. The story line she was given is at least consistent with all the others...and then of course all their "hard evidence" never

seemed to jell. Actually there are FBI reports on some telling much the same story, such as the stories from Sturgis and Martino. We actually have FBI reports on many of those informants - did you ever find anyting

in the FBI files relating to the purported info provided by her boat guys?

To be honest, Larry, no, not beyond the alleged attempts to kill Castro, but the evidence is overwhelming that the FBI destroyed all the real evidence! It is also PERFECTLY OBVIOUS that the immediate goal of President Kennedy's assassination was to provoke an invasion of Cuba! The evidence for that is absolutely EVERYWHERE for weeks before the assassination and immediately after. Do you disagree?

[Jim Hargrove]

CLAIRE BOOTH LUCE AND

AMERICAN-BORN LEE OSWALD

In the early 1960s, soon after Fidel Castro's 1959 takeover of Cuba, Clare Boothe Luce (and her husband, Life Magazine magnate Henry Luce) began to sponsor anti-Castro groups. This support, according to Wikipedia, included funding exiles in commando speedboat raids against Cuba in the early 1960s. A number of reports seem to indicate that American-born Lee Oswald was involved in some of these activities, at the same time Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was in Russia and then back home in New Orleans and Texas.

Excerpts of several documents below are from the John Armstrong collection at Baylor University. The OCR scans of these somewhat grainy pages are a little rough, but interested readers can always look at reproductions of the actual docs by clicking on this link:

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/4801/rec/1

From an FBI report dated 6/2/75 (Emphasis added by me):

=================== QUOTE ON =================

On 5/16/75 at 6:30 pm Deputy Attorney General Tyler

advised Inspector John B. Hotis and SA Paul V. Daly that he had received Information from Roderic Hills, Assistant Counsel to the President, that the Commission on CIA Activities was making an inquiry into a facet of the investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald, assassin of President Kennedy, and he requested that the FBI review its files to determine if any factual basis existed for these allegations. Mr. Tyler stated that one of these allegations recelved was that former Congresswoman Clare Boothe Luce had been financing a fishing boat to transport Cuban citizens from Cuba to Miami, Florida. This was in the period of 1960-61 and Mr. Tyler later stated the time frame was 1961 to 1962. The Captain of the ship allegedly advised Mrs. Luce that Lee Harvey Oswald and others were involved in the infiltration of a communist cell group in that area and had discussed assassination plans with no assassination target identified. Mrs. Luce instructed the Captain to notify the FBI and he later told her that he had done so and was leaving the country.

=================== QUOTE OFF ===============

Another report is labeled Notes from 1977 Inspector General's Report

Taken by Betsy Palmer, 12/6/77

=================== QUOTE ON ===============

1. Memo for Director of Central Intelligence

From: John H. Waller, Inspector General

Subject: President Kennedy Assassination - Mrs. Luce story

At behest of Director Colby, Mrs. Luce passed the story

on to Senator Richard Schweiker. On 10 December 1975,

staff member of Senate Select Committee inquired as to

what the Agency thought of the story and was told it

had nothing to add to the newspaper story of Betty Beale

and suggested FBI would be the proper agency to contact.

Mrs. Luce's actual transcript could be considered news-

worthy and presented in a manner determental to CIA.

FBI was sent transcript in January 1977.

2. Transcript of telephone conversation, October 25, 1975,

Clare Booth Luce (CBL) call to William Colby (WC).

CBL got involved during and after the Bay of Pigs with

DRE. Up until the Cuban Missile Crisis when "Allen"

called her and told the secret Act had gone into effect

and that henceforth there would be no voluntary American

efforts. "I knew a number of these leaders well; they

were going in and out of Cuba, and I paid for one of the

motor boats. Bill Pawley did too." ... "The night of

the assassination, right after Oswald was caught, one

of my boys telephoned me from New Orleans." — he was

captian of "her" boat ... the Cubans were told to leave

Miami. ..."he had opened a cell in New Orleans. He

telephoned me to tell me that Oswald was ...a hired gun;

Oswald had tried to penetrate their little cell; that

they turned around and did a counter penetration 30b on

Oswald; all of this was done several months before the

assassination. He said, "we had tape recordings of

what he was telling his groups." It was a counter

penetration they went on. He said, "We have photographs

of Oswald passing out handbills on the street, "Be Fair

to Cuba." He said, "We are absolutely certain that

Oswald was one of three assassination teams, that they

were working out of Mexico City 9or funded in Mexico

City) by Castro. "He said there were three assassinations

teams." CBL told him to give the information to the FBI.

After Garrison investigation came up, Luce began thinking

about the incident again. She called Justin McCarthy

to ge name of Cuban -- he was now in Miami. Got him on

the phone and he told CBL that FBI took all tapes, photos

and "told us to keep our mouths shut, and shortly after

that they informed us that if any of us talked to the press

dire things would happen." Said one of the fellows on boat

was deported to Guatemala or Chile, and one was

murdered. Said he was now a lawyer, had two children,

making way in Miami and never wants to hear a damn word

about the assassination of Kennedy because you Americans

really do not want to know the truth."

============== QUOTE OFF ================

Again, scans of these documents can be downloaded from the John Armstrong Collection at Baylor University at this url:

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/4801/rec/1

Will someone from the H&L hit squad kindly reply?

[Larry Hancock]

I would certainly agree that as far as the actual Dallas team was concerned, they very much believed/hoped that the attack and the frame that was to follow would provoke

a strike against Castro. I'm not convinced that those further up the chain really believed that would happen or that it was their primary motivation. My view is that they

were acting against JFK as a perceived national security threat.

As to the FBI destroying all real evidence, that's an awfully broad statement - there is actually a lot of evidence in hand pointing towards conspiracy and that didn't get

destroyed, it simply got managed, spun and either obfuscated or diverted by FBI expert testimony. But you might well be talking about a different type of evidence

than I'm thinking of ......I certainly think that items linking Oswald to or showing direct interest in Oswald prior to the assassination by the FBI, CIA and and very possibly

ONI were destroyed but I also think much of that was in local files rather than headquarters files and such soft files can be and are often flushed without headquarters even

knowing it. Since such files have short term retention dates nobody knows the difference anyway.