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How many rifles were found on the 6th floor?


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Once delusional... forever delusional....

your reputation preceeds you Len....

Nothing you do or say related to JFK is taken seriously by anyone, on any forum, or in any circles where serious people discuss the case.

But you have yourself a nice day... :rip

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[...]

These are his hands from the day of arrest and from the BYP.... regardless of photogrammetry.. the hands simply do not match. (emphasis added by T. Graves)

[...]

Oswaldsrighthandcomparison_zpsc371fc23.jpg

Dear Mr. Josephs,

Please elaborate.

Thank you,

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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The two right pics need to be scaled to see thewre is not such a difference and that the difference that may be seen has to do with resolution as a reasonable alternative explanation..

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The two right pics need to be scaled to see thewre is not such a difference and that the difference that may be seen has to do with resolution as a reasonable alternative explanation..

..can you simply trust your eyes here John? the BYP showing C2766 is full of problems not related to the photo itself.... as I've discussed many times in many threads about Kleins and the FBI.

when one adds up all the inconsistencies... AND now add in that these hands dont look the same... it becomes easier and easier to understand why the DPD lost a negative yet we wind up with three poses, a woman who doesn't remember how the camera works to begin with... and cant get her story straight as to when it even occurred, and the fact that rifle and the ballistic evidence do not match up...

Oh, and the rifle is not even C2766 in the photos...

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Oh yes, I do trust my eyes. The two photos are of different quality and the hands are not the same size. Scale down the top one to match the tip of the pinkie and the width of the hand. You'll still see very different quality of pics but a lot of the 'argument' becomes in doubt, hence not the stronly supportive evidence you think it is.

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Fair enough... I see something very obvious ... others do not.

If you want to accept the provenance of the BYPs - so be it.

Having researched the subject from start to finish rather than conclusions based on a single slice of time... My conclusion is that the BYPs were created... possibly even by Oswald himself...

as much of the incriminating evidence against him was created, altered, added or manipulated.

Discussing the BYP or autopsy or any other aspect as if they stand alone on an island is a classic LNer approach... if one wishes to take 1 piece of a 10000 piece puzzle and declare what the picture MUST look like from that one piece.... I can't stop that kind of analysis.

If we put some of these pieces together that should fit and they dont... maybe, just maybe we can realize the picture of a LNer killing the POTUS as detailed in the FBI's WCR is just as much BS as anyone can stand.

No offense John... but this assassination puzzle does not hinge on the BYPs.

. PAINE - Yes.

Mr. JENNER - What were you doing in the meantime?

Mrs. PAINE - Packing was haphazard, this packing was haphazard; put the dishes in a box and carried it out to the car.

Mr. JENNER - It was in the open so you could see what went into your car?

Mrs. PAINE - I think so. I certainly then repacked it to go to New Orleans.

Mr. JENNER - Well, I want to stick with this occasion, please.

Mrs. PAINE - All right.

Mr. JENNER - Was there a rifle packed in the back of the car?

Mrs. PAINE - No.

Mr. JENNER - You didn't see any kind of weapon?

Mrs. PAINE - No.

Mr. JENNER - Firearm, rifle, pistol, or otherwise?

Mrs. PAINE - No; I saw nothing of that nature.

Mr. JENNER - Did you drive them to your home?

Mrs. PAINE - Yes.

Mr. JENNER - Were the materials and things in your station wagon unpacked and placed in your home?

Mrs. PAINE - Yes; immediately.

Mr. JENNER - Did you see that being done, were you present?

Mrs. PAINE - I helped do it; yes.

Mr. JENNER - Did you see any weapon on that occasion?

Mrs. PAINE - No.

Mr. JENNER - Whether a rifle, pistol or--

Mrs. PAINE - No.

Mr. JENNER - Or any covering, any package, that looked as though it might have a weapon, pistol, or firearm?

Mrs. PAINE - No.

Michael actually and repeatedly handled that blanket and STILL can't say it was a rifle... which, if it was in that blanket, had to be assembled...

You ever wonder when and how Oswald gets the paper bag home, the rifle unassembled and into the bag and the bag to the TSBD when the key witnesses stated it was no where near big enough to carry a rifle of that size and the one man who saw Oswald coming into work that morning testified there was nothing in his hands....

The bag story was CYA... never happened. Yet the Yates story - which is the same as taking Welsey's word for it... was NOT accepted? Even though the bag was big enough and the man looked like Oswald...

Mr. LIEBELER - The witness yesterday did draw a picture of what he visualized as being in the blanket, and I will offer it in evidence later on in the hearing.

How long was this package in your estimation?

Mr. PAINE - Well, yesterday we measured the distance that I indicated with my hand, I think it came to 37 inches.

Mr. LIEBELER - Approximately how thick would you say it was?

Mr. PAINE - I picked it up each time and I put it in a position and then I would recover it from that position, so each time I moved it with the same position with my hands in the same position. My right hand, the thumb and forefinger could go around the pipe, and my left hand grabbed something which was an inch and a half inside the blanket or something thick.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did it occur to you at that time that there was a rifle in the package?

Mr. PAINE - That did not occur to me.

John, can you address why it is that ever single piece of evidence that suggests Oswald did not do what he is accused of was UNACCEPTABLE

while any hint of testimony or evidence that supports Oswald did it was treated as GOLD? Even a broken clock is right twice a day... do you not find it stretching the bounds of credibility that not a single person, event, or piece of physical evidence that suggests MORE than Oswald... was either thrown aside, discredited or shaefully and mercifully attacked...?

Or do you not see that either?

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Oh yes, I do trust my eyes. The two photos are of different quality and the hands are not the same size. Scale down the top one to match the tip of the pinkie and the width of the hand. You'll still see very different quality of pics but a lot of the 'argument' becomes in doubt, hence not the stronly supportive evidence you think it is.

John,

Not to mention the perspective problem caused by the photographer being below Oswald in the "Russian train" photo. This put the palm of Oswald's hand closer to the camera than his fingers, thereby making his fingers look shorter than they actually were.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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If I was to take offense it would be in taking onboard your implied notion that I think the puzzle hinges on the back yard pictures. I don't, take offense I mean.

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Fair enough... I see something very obvious ... others do not.

And yet you still fail to spell out what exactly is supposedly different about the hands

LOL

Hallucinations

Hallucinations are false perceptions, inaccuracies that affect our senses & cause us to hear, see, taste, touch or smell what others do not. In the acute phases of schizophrenia, patients are likely to insist they are hearing voices that no one else can hear. Sometimes they hear noises, clicks or non-word sounds. On occasion they are disturbed by seeing, smelling or feeling things that others do not.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/family/delusions.html

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Yates' story. Really good one David.

I wonder how many people actually know it.

Further, I have to tell you something. Frazier's story is starting to look even worse today.

There is a witness I have to look up in Dallas this year. When I check it out I will get back to you.

He eviscerates Frazier. Like Frazier needs to be cut up even more right?

I'd put Yates up against Bledsoe/Whaley any time... same with Scoggins and Benavidas... the man drove this person to the corner of Elm/Houston while listening to talk about hi powered rifles WHILE holding a 3 1/2 to 4 foot paper bag... like not believing Mercer or Arnold...

I'm hoping you refer to the person seeing Wesley drop Oswald off much closer to the building... or someone to corroborate this... on a side note, you ever see that photo in the WCR showing where Welsey parked compared to twhere the TSBD is...?

DJ

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; he just said we had a parking lot there and showed me where it was and said you can park in the parking lot.

Mr. BALL - Was that the parking lot two or three blocks from the building.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir, it is down there; right across from the warehouse there.

Mr. BALL - Then you would walk from there from that parking lot--

Mr. FRAZIER - Up to the other Depository up there at the corner of Houston and Main.

Mr. BALL - We have here a map which has been marked as Commission's Exhibit No. 361.

Mr. FRAZIER - I see.

Mr. BALL - And north is to the bottom of the map.

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes.

Mr. BALL - What did the package look like?

Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I would just, it is right as you get out of the grocery store, just more or less out of a package, you have seen some of these brown paper sacks you can obtain from any, most of the stores, some varieties, but it was a package just roughly about two feet long.

Mr. BALL - It was, what part of the back seat was it in?

Mr. FRAZIER - It was in his side over on his side in the far back.

Mr. BALL - How much of that back seat, how much space did it take up?

Mr. FRAZIER - I would say roughly around 2 feet of the seat.

Mr. BALL - From the side of the seat over to the center, is that the way you would measure it?

Mr. FRAZIER - If, if you were going to measure it that way from the end of the seat over toward the center, right. But I say like I said I just roughly estimate and that would be around two feet, give and take a few inches

Asked and answered... does the WCR offer anyone seeing Oswald coming in with a bag or rifle? I'm sorry but I don't remember the name of the person seeing him dropped off closer to the TSBD...

DJ

Mr. BALL - He was alone?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; he was alone.

Mr. BALL - Do you recall him having anything in his hand?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't see anything, if he did.

Mr. BALL - Did you pay enough attention to him, you think, that you would remember whether he did or didn't?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I believe I can---yes, sir---I'll put it this way; I didn't see anything in his hands at the time.

Mr. BALL - In other words, your memory is definite on that is it?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - In other words, you would say positively he had nothing in his hands?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - I would say that---yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - Or, are you guessing?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - I don't think so.

Mr. BALL - You saw him come in the door?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - The back door on the first floor?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - It was in the back door.

Mr. BALL - Now, that back door is the door that opens onto what? That back door would be the first floor?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.

post-1587-0-11881200-1364227651_thumb.jpg

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If I was to take offense it would be in taking onboard your implied notion that I think the puzzle hinges on the back yard pictures. I don't, take offense I mean.

Well good. no offence intended... yet you seem to forget that MANY ITEMS OF EVIDENCE hinge on that photo.

The concern I have John. is that once you accept the BYP as real... are you implying that Marina's testimony about the photos is truthful? (and if so do we believe the single photo was taken in Feb as she states, or that she only took one, looking straight thru the viewfinder... ) That Klein's evidence related to the rifle is accurate? That Seaports joke of an undocumented process actually happened? That he actually does stow the rifle in a blanket and moves it with his belongings into the Paine garage... and actually disassembles it on a whim, after making a paper bag WHEN? getting it home Thursday night and preparing it for transport... actually walking a 34" stock and metal parts in a paper bag, puts in the back seat... not a sound is heard of gun parts rattling, or moving... the BAG is not big enough given Wesley and his aunt's recollection...

No the puzzle does not hinge on the BYP yet it takes on a very differnt image if you accept these 3 images with only one negative yet with two found... with the image showing up in the most interesting of places over the years... and the DPD given a little slap on the wrist over the LOSING of one of these key items of evidence... then the HSCA photo panel follow-up scam of the century...

So John... I am a litle puzzled at your response... Support the authenticity of the BYP REQUIRES you to accept certain other related "facts" that simply do not add up. So in a very real sense... belief in the BYP suggests acceptance of evidence which is easily shon to be inauthentic...

So take a stand John... if the BYP are real... explain/support/authenticate the evidence trail that becomes necessarily true as a result.

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