Dave Reitzes on the Clothing Evidence

[Cliff Varnell]

Gentle reader,

I've often been regarded as a notorious thread hi-jacker so in sensitivity to the validity of the charge I'd like to start a new thread devoted solely to Dave Reitzes' comments on the clothing evidence in his new Skeptic article.

Dave, you have the floor...

[Evan Marshall]

so how many times have you handle bloody clothing?

I did two tours in Detroit Homicide, handled bloody clothing on a regular basis and spent time with Dr Spitz discussing what bullet holes in bloody clothing could tell us.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Evan Marshall

[Ray Mitcham]

"Bloody cloning"? You think there were two Oswalds?

[Evan Marshall]

I really ought to fire my editor but then I'd be unemployed and yes I actually believe there were two Oswald's and that John Armstrong pretty much had it right.

[Ray Mitcham]

I really ought to fire my editor but then I'd be unemployed and yes I actually believe there were two Oswald's and that John Armstrong pretty much had it right.

Sorry, Evan, couldn't resist it.

[Evan Marshall]

no problem

[Cliff Varnell]

so how many times have you handle bloody clothing?

JFK's clothing wasn't bloody the moment he was shot in the back.

I did two tours in Detroit Homicide, handled bloody clothing on a regular basis and spent time with Dr Spitz discussing what bullet holes in bloody clothing could tell us.

Excellent...but what does that have to do with what Dave Reitzes says (or doesn't say) about the clothing evidence?

Edited September 12, 2013 by Cliff Varnell

[Robin Unger]

Quote:

JFK's jacket dropped in Dealey Plaza?

Towner

Click on image to view full size:

Edited September 12, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Altgens 5 Groden crop

Houston st

Click on image to view full size:

Edited September 12, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Cliff Varnell]

Quote:

JFK's jacket dropped in Dealey Plaza?

Towner

Click on image to view full size:

Altgens 5 Groden crop

Houston st

Click on image to view full size:

Robin, thanks for posting.

Please note on Houston St. JFK's shirt collar was occluded by the jacket collar, but on Elm St. the shirt collar was visible above the top of the jacket collar.

The jacket dropped.

Next I'll post the moment in the Nix film which shows the jacket collar dropping on Houston St.

[Cliff Varnell]

On Houston St. JFK leaned forward to speak with Nellie. When he leaned back his jacket collar dropped.

[Cliff Varnell]

On Houston St. JFK leaned forward to speak with Nellie. When he leaned back his jacket collar dropped.

The lower margin of a jacket collar rests naturally at the upper margin of the base of the neck.

According to Dave Reitzes' Single Bullet Theory, a bullet entered the back of JFK's neck, although Dave refers to it in his "JFK 100" article as a back wound.

(Aside to Dave: how do you have a back wound in the neck? Is that like having a leg wound in the arm? A head wound in the big toe? How does that work, Dave, a back wound in the neck?)

The problem for Dave Reitzes et al is that the bullet holes in the shirt and jacket are a good 3 inches below Reitzes' SBT inshoot, and he needs there to have been 3+ inches of JFK's tucked-in, custom-made, close-fitting shirt -- and a near equal amount of jacket fabric -- to have "bunched up" entirely above the SBT inshoot.

But the Dealey Plaza photos show JFK's jacket collar dropped to a normal position at the base of his neck.

How could the jacket collar drop into a physical space occupied by 6+ inches of bunched up clothing fabric?

Dave, would you care to demonstrate this seemingly impossible phenomenon?

After all, Dave, as a defender of the SBT the burden of proof is on you.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Cliff Varnell

[Evan Marshall]

everybody is an expert in cyber space because they don't have to get their hands dirty or bloody

[Ron Ecker]

I did two tours in Detroit Homicide, handled bloody clothing on a regular basis and spent time with Dr Spitz discussing what bullet holes in bloody clothing could tell us.

Can you think of any benign reason why the bloody clothing would not be made available at a gunshot victim's autopsy?

[Evan Marshall]

no, it had been routine in Detroit for decades that the officer in charge would pick up the clothing and dry it, examine it and put it in evidence.

It was not a federal crime to murder a president and the ME there was absolutely right it should have been done there.

It all smells worse than a decomposed corpse-those who believe the single bullet ought to mount their unicorn and ride back to Oz.