TAGUE's Curb

[Don Roberdeau]

Good Day.... Can someone, please, provide the exact date in 1964 when the curb near JAMES TAGUE was removed by assassination investigators?

Thanks in advance (I am currently not where my files, books, + wc sets are at)

Best Regards in Research

+ ++Don


Donald Roberdeau
United States Navy
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly

For your key considerations + independent determinations....

Homepage: President KENNEDY "Men of Courage" speech, and Assassination Evidence, Witnesses, Photographers, Suspects, + Outstanding Researchers Discoveries + Key Considerations.... http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html


The Dealey Plaza Detailed Map: Documented 11-22-63 Victims Precise Locations + Reactions, Evidence, Witnesses Locations, Photographers, Suspected Bullet Trajectories, Important Information + Key Considerations, in One Convenient Resource....

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3966/dppluschartsupdated1111.gif
(updated map, + new information)


Visual Report: The First Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK was Still Hidden Under the "magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"....

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2446/206cropjfk1102308ms8.gif


Visual Report: Reality Versus C.A.D. : the Real World, versus, Garbage-in, Garbage-out.... http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5066/jsf.gif


Discovery: "Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS
Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Head Snap:

West, Ultrafast, and Directly Towards the Grassy Knoll"....
http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html


T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore


For the United States:

http://www.dhs.gov

Edited December 20, 2013 by Don Roberdeau

[John Crites]

Don,

I will dig out some of Harold Weisberg's manuscripts to see if I can find the exact date (or dates).

But I am pretty sure it was right after the July 23, 1964 deposition of James Tague. In August, the FBI reported on their test results.

Weisberg filed a FOIA suit against the FBI pertaining to release of certain test results.

[Malcolm Ward]

. This curb surrounding the scar chip was not cut out until August 1964, and is now in the National Archives. The scar chip was 23 feet 6 inches (7.2 m) east of the east edge of the triple underpass railroad bridge, about 20 (6.1 m) feet from where Tague stood during the attack. The detective told Tague it looked like a bullet had been fired from one of the Houston and Elm Streets intersection buildings and had hit the curb.

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tague

[John Crites]

Looks like maybe the first week of August, Malcum,

And from citizen Weisberg:


EDGAR HOOVER WRITES J. LEE RANKIN ON AUGUST 12, 1964 ABOUT
THE LAB REPORT ON THE CURB.
THE ABSENCE OF COPPER PRECLUDES THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE MARK
ON THE CURBING SECTION WAS MADE BY AN UNMUTILATED MILITARYTYPE
FULL METAL-JACKETED BULLET SUCH AS THE BULLET FROM
GOVERNOR CONNALLY'S STRETCHER, Cl, OR THE BULLET OR BULLETS
REPRESENTED BY THE JACKET FRAGMENTS, C2 AND C3, FOUND IN THE
PRESIDENTIAL LIMOSENE. FURTHER, THE DAMAGE TO THE CURBING
WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH MORE EXTENSIVE IF A RIFLE BULLET HAD
STRUCK THE CURBING WITHOUT FIRST HAVING STRUCK SOME OTHER
OBJECT. THEREFORE, THIS MARK COULD NOT HAVE BEEN MADE BY THE
FIRST IMPACT OF A HIGH VELOCITY RIFLE BULLETgust FBI Memo

[John Dolva]

. This curb surrounding the scar chip was not cut out until August 1964, and is now in the National Archives. The scar chip was 23 feet 6 inches (7.2 m) east of the east edge of the triple underpass railroad bridge, about 20 (6.1 m) feet from where Tague stood during the attack. The detective told Tague it looked like a bullet had been fired from one of the Houston and Elm Streets intersection buildings and had hit the curb.

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tague

With date having been given and a mention of what it looks like, when one flips the photo of the strike on the fbi photo and look at the photos taken at the time after the assassination it's not hard to see what are trochoidal scratches on the curb that coincide with the chipped concrete lending credence to an alternative idea that the curb had been hit by the clip of a lead wheel weight and Tagues 'wound', unnoticed until pointed out to Tague by Walthers, and subsequent dicscovery of a chip in the curb was used to confirm the direction that a bullet fragment would have to come from to strike the curb and chip off a fragmen that went on to strike Tague on his cheek. I suggest (again) that if there is a credible alternative

"Trochoid describe a family of curves. (See: Curve Family Index) Trochoid is defined as the trace of a point fixed on a circle that rolls along a line. Sometimes the name trochoid is used to mean hypotrochoid and epitrochoid. (curve traced by rolling circle on another circle) More generally, trochoid is any curve that is the locus of a point fixed to a curve A, while A rolls on another curve B without slipping.

"

the Tague - wound senario and anything that flows from it is in question until the notion that it is a wheel weight strike and of no relevance except insofar as how that notion has been used in any consideration regarding ballistics.

I think a credible argument has been made that in certain conditions trajectory and kinetic energy falls within the plausible that a fragment could just do this but I don't think that's enough to proclaim it as an established fact that the curb strike or Tagues cheek had anything to do with the assassination. At the same time I don't think one can outright reject the notion either.

edit typos

Edited December 21, 2013 by John Dolva

[John Crites]

sorry I misspelled your name Malcolm

[Malcolm Ward]

sorry I misspelled your name Malcolm

No problem John.

[Malcolm Ward]

. This curb surrounding the scar chip was not cut out until August 1964, and is now in the National Archives. The scar chip was 23 feet 6 inches (7.2 m) east of the east edge of the triple underpass railroad bridge, about 20 (6.1 m) feet from where Tague stood during the attack. The detective told Tague it looked like a bullet had been fired from one of the Houston and Elm Streets intersection buildings and had hit the curb.

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tague

With date having been given and a mention of what it looks like, when one flips the photo of the strike on the fbi photo and look at the photos taken at the time after the assassination it's not hard to see what are trochoidal scratches on the curb that coincide with the chipped concrete lending credence to an alternative idea that the curb had been hit by the clip of a lead wheel weight and Tagues 'wound', unnoticed until pointed out to Tague by Walthers, and subsequent dicscovery of a chip in the curb was used to confirm the direction that a bullet fragment would have to come from to strike the curb and chip off a fragmen that went on to strike Tague on his cheek. I suggest (again) that if there is a credible alternative

"Trochoid describe a family of curves. (See: Curve Family Index) Trochoid is defined as the trace of a point fixed on a circle that rolls along a line. Sometimes the name trochoid is used to mean hypotrochoid and epitrochoid. (curve traced by rolling circle on another circle) More generally, trochoid is any curve that is the locus of a point fixed to a curve A, while A rolls on another curve B without slipping.

"

the Tague - wound senario and anything that flows from it is in question until the notion that it is a wheel weight strike and of no relevance except insofar as how that notion has been used in any consideration regarding ballistics.

I think a credible argument has been made that in certain conditions trajectory and kinetic energy falls within the plausible that a fragment could just do this but I don't think that's enough to proclaim it as an established fact that the curb strike or Tagues cheek had anything to do with the assassination. At the same time I don't think one can outright reject the notion either.

edit typos

Tague had been wounded by the time the third shot was fired. He reported feeling a slight sting which he initially ignored, being "consumed by what was transpiring in front of him" (Trask, 459). It later became the focus of attention when Tague mentioned it to Dallas police officer Buddy Walthers who then noticed blood on his cheek. The most important issue with Tague's wound is the question of which shot caused it. This information will have to coincide with a larger scenario of a shot either missing the presidential limousine or fragmenting after going through the presidential limousine (particularly through Kennedy's head) and going on to hit the curb near Tague.

Source:

By: William M. Goggins Marquette University

Via.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/tague.htm

[Terry Adams]

"Tague had been wounded by the time the third shot was fired. He reported feeling a slight sting which he initially ignored, being "consumed by what was transpiring in front of him" (Trask, 459). It later became the focus of attention when Tague mentioned it to Dallas police officer Buddy Walthers who then noticed blood on his cheek" Malcolm Ward.

A police officer saw Tague and asked about his injury.

“He turned and looked up at me and says you’ve got blood on your face. I reached up and sure enough there was blood. I remember I was stung,” Tague said.

Do we know if Mr.Tague mentioned it first, or the police officer saw it first ,and pointed it out to him. One of those; when did he know it scenarios!...........

This is certainly no reflection on what you wrote, Malcolm. It is just something that came to mind after I read your post. Was Tague hit by a bullet fragment (or concrete) during the assassination? I have wondered on the subject many times.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Terry Adams

[Malcolm Ward]

From what I have read Terry,it was the police officer that noticed it before Tague.As to bullet fragment,or concrete I am not sure.

"I'm standing there maybe four or five seconds, and somebody throws a firecracker," Tague said. "And I'm thinking, 'What kind of idiot would be throwing a firecracker with the president going by?' Of course, that was the first shot. Then the crack, crack, quick shots in a row, and something stings me in the face."

Tague’s wound was so superficial that he didn’t even realize he had been hit. He and a deputy sheriff nearby were trying to figure out what had just happened.

"We walked across the street just in time to hear this man sobbing, 'His head exploded. His head exploded,'" Tague said. "And the policeman said, 'Whose head?' And he said, 'The president's.'"

"[The deputy sheriff] says, ‘You have blood on your face,'" said Tague. "And that's when I remembered something had stung me in the face. And I reached up, and there was three or four drops of blood on my hand."

It was eventually determined that James Tague had been wounded from the ricochet of a bullet that missed JFK’s limousine and struck the curb nearby.

"That evening, I set down and wrote in a spiral notebook everything I could remember about that day," Tague said. "And I've kept it all these years."

Tague was eventually called to testify before the Warren Commission, which concluded that the first shot missed the presidential limousine and struck the curb, wounding Tague. The second bullet, according to the Warren Commission, wounded both JFK and Connally, and the third was the head shot that killed JFK.

"They had to go back and rewrite the Warren Commission," Tague said. "That's where the magic bullet came from. That's the only thing they could come up with. That's the only thing they could come up with. That one bullet went through two people."

Unedited version of what Tague said,Here.

http://www.ibtimes.com/jfk-assassination-50th-anniversary-who-james-tague-meet-third-man-wounded-during-jfk-assassination

[John Dolva]

http://kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Tague.html

I was working for Chuck Hinton Dodge on Lemmon Avenue in Dallas and was running late taking a friend to lunch around noon. At that point, I drove down Stemmons, turned to go east on Commerce and was stopped at the Triple Underpass. I realized that the Kennedy motorcade was coming through that area and, due to the fact that traffic came to a momentary stop in the left lane where I was, I stepped out of my car with the nose of the car sticking out of the east side of the underpass just seconds before the motorcade turned the corner in front of the School Book Depository. So I was standing to the front of the car on the cement where it narrows to go under the Triple Underpass between Main and Commerce Streets.
I could see the car turn left onto Elm Street then I heard three shots. When I heard the first shot, I thought somebody had thrown a firecracker and was standing there wondering what had happened. Then I heard another sound which was a little different. The third shot sounded the same as the second. At that point, I realized that they were possibly gunshots, so I ducked behind the concrete support and peeked out just as the Presidential limousine was passing into the Triple Underpass. In hindsight it was already over at that time.
I could not honestly tell from where the shots had originated, but the first shot I found the most interesting. A number of people described that shot as a firecracker, and it was different from the next two.
After the limousine had passed, one policeman stopped his motorcycle, drew his gun and ran up the grassy knoll while another came running. Other than a few people running for whatever reason, either toward the grassy knoll or in other directions, many people were just standing there, stunned. Veteran policemen were not reacting.
While I was standing there watching this, a man in a suit, who later identified himself as Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers, ran up and said, "What happened?" I told him that I didn't know, so we then walked over to the curb next to the grassy knoll on the north side of Elm where a motorcycle policeman had stopped and where three to five people were standing around. One of them men was very anguished and said his head had exploded.
When the policeman asked him who, he said, "The President's!" That was the first that Mr. Walthers and I even knew that somebody had shot at the President.
At that point, Mr. Walthers looked at me and said, "You've got blood on your cheek!" So I reached up and felt a couple of drops of blood. That was the first time that I recalled that there'd been something that had stung me, much like a sweat bee sting. ...

what's a sweat bee sting?

[Ray Mitcham]

John, a sweat bee is one which is attracted by the smell of salt in human sweat. The sting isn't as bad as some other bees, so that is probably why Tague didn't notice the wound and described it thus.

[John Dolva]

Ok. It felt like a sweat bee sting. He didn't 'squeeze or squash it' so it couldn't have been that which made him feel this mild sting but one does know that he was sweaty. He was also late for a date. Clean shaven. How do you feel a drop of blood, he couldn't see it. A drop is a small ooze. He walked around with it and it didn't run. It coagulated which made it possible for him to feel it. I can see no reason to not give weight to a notion that he had recently shaved and on the way to an important date and got caught up in it all. IF so the report to look at is the one that does not consider the Tague shot. This one says that connally and JFK were hit by different shots.? At least two shooters?

Is there any photo of this wound? Is there any statement by anyone. His future wife? about the nature of the wound?

[Chris Newton]

I don't think Tague cut himself shaving and then walked around with coagulated blood on his cheek. It's simply not how he describes getting wounded or the nature of the wound itself.

LBJ and the Kennedy Killing: James T Tague copyright 2013

Pg. 9 "I was about to leave for lunch when an old customer came in to buy a car. Business came first and I did not get away until after 12:00"

So he was selling cars with blood on his face? I don't think so.

Pg. 11 "Something stung me in the face during the shooting…"

Pg. 12 "I reached up and felt my face. There were three or four drops of blood on my hand."

[Robert Prudhomme]

In any of Tague's statements or recollections, does he recall which of the three shots he felt caused his wound?