Why I believe the SBT is nothing but BS

[Jim Phelps]

Because the SBT is total BS.

Three shooters: three shots out of Dal-Tex window, one shot from Grassy Knoll, and one shot from TSBD. Two shooters hit JFK's head at nearly that same instance----one bullet from the rear and a second from the GN area.

Arlen Specter was Mason and allied with the want for the Cover up on the JFK hit.

[Mark Knight]

Even the late Tom Purvis, who was a lone gunman advocate, called the SBT a piece of fantasy. And Tom believed that there were only 3 shots, from the 6th floor of the TSBD. [Tom admitted that the shooter might or might not have been Oswald, but that Oswald was capable of making those shots, in a 7-8 second timeframe rather than the 5.6 seconds the WC allowed.]

Mr. Von Pein is operating from the conclusion that the SBT is "fact," and then examining which evidence to keep and which to discard based upon the conclusion. The rest of us are examining the facts, and then drawing conclusions based upon our interpretation of those facts.

Which way is based upon science?

[David Von Pein]

CE 399 could be from the back wound.

So, you think somehow the bullet dropped out of Kennedy's back and then someone picked it up and hand-carried it to another part of the hospital where this person deposited it on a stretcher in the hallway? Is that about it?

Or did the bullet just ROLL down the corridor and then JUMP onto the stretcher by itself?

Or do you think that KENNEDY'S stretcher was really in the area of Parkland where the bullet was found? Which, if true, would really confuse a whole lot of people, and would probably mean a bunch of people were liars as well.

In short --- Pat Speer's theory about CE399 possibly being from JFK's "back wound" is completely preposterous. And yet Pat thinks it is people like myself--the believers in the SBT--who believe in "imaginary creations" [Pat's quote].

Once more, it's irony at its finest when discussing the JFK assassination with the conspiracy theorists of planet Earth.

Edited May 28, 2014 by David Von Pein

[Ray Mitcham]

David, try answering James Gordon's points. Unless you can, you have to accept that the single bullet theory is a load of rubbish.

[David Von Pein]

The throat wound could have been a fragment wound from the head shot.

Pat, it seems, will accept ANY farfetched notion rather than belief the most obvious (and true) scenario, which is a scenario that has one bullet passing through the TWO bullet holes in John F. Kennedy's upper back and throat.

Instead, Pat thinks it's MORE likely that the nice neat little hole in JFK's throat (which could definitely have been an EXIT for a bullet, as Dr. Perry clearly indicated in his WC testimony) was caused by a fragment from the head shot which somehow steered itself down into Kennedy's throat.

And Pat's oddball theory above also means that it's yet more incredible luck for those conspirators/assassins/plotters/patsy-framers. To get THAT lucky with so much stuff on the VERY SAME DAY is indeed remarkable, don't you think?

A brief "Luck" inventory (even though most CTers insist that ALL of this stuff was pre-arranged and/or "manipulated" in order for things to look the way they do today to simple-minded goofs like David Von Pein and John McAdams, et al):

....The unknown "they" shoot the President while trying to frame only Lee Oswald, using various guns all over Dealey Plaza (per most Internet CTers' beliefs anyway), and then got lucky when ONLY "Oswald" evidence is left behind to find (and in THREE different locations too!---the Depository, the hospital, and in the limousine itself). The angels were with the assassination team that day, that's for sure.

....And "they" just got lucky when a fragment from the head shot miraculously worked its way down to JFK's throat (per Patrick J. Speer), which meant that Arlen Specter and his team of cover-up agents with the Warren Commission could utilize that throat wound as the exit point for the bullet that entered JFK's upper back.

....And then the plotters plucked another angel out of heaven and received the incredible blessing of having John Connally hit in his UPPER BACK TOO, so that the Connally back wound could "line up" to the JFK throat wound, which was REALLY (per Speer) caused by that fragment coming out of President Kennedy's HEAD. Such luck is rarely seen even at the Vegas crap tables. (But "crap" is the best word to describe these nonsensical theories I'm discussing here, that's for sure.)

....The assassins then get MORE help with their plot when EVERY investigative agency in the country decides that THEY TOO want to start framing Oswald for TWO murders he never committed! From the autopsy physicians, to the DPD, to the Sheriff's Department, to the FBI, to the WC, and then (14 years later) to the HSCA. They ALL blew it, big-time, when ALL of those agencies and committees declared that one bullet passed through JFK's body (which the autopsy doctors did declare) and/or that Oswald was the only gunman who struck any victims with any bullets on November 22, 1963.

And I'm supposed to totally trash BOTH the Warren Commission Report AND the HSCA Report, which BOTH came to the conclusion that BULLET CE399 WAS THE EXACT BULLET THAT WOUNDED BOTH PRESIDENT KENNEDY AND GOVERNOR CONNALLY, due to the fact that some conspiracy theorists here in 2014, such as James Gordon and Robert Prudhomme, think it was impossible for CE399 to have wounded Connally's wrist.

Sorry, guys, I'm afraid that given the choice here -- WC & HSCA vs. Gordon & Prudhomme & Assorted CTers -- I've got to go with the WC and HSCA.

There can be little doubt that William of Ockham is spinning is his grave right now.

Edited May 28, 2014 by David Von Pein

[Ray Mitcham]

David, try answering James Gordon's points. Unless you can, you have to accept that the single bullet theory is a load of rubbish.

Bump.

(Where did Von Pein suddenly disappear to?)

Edited May 28, 2014 by Ray Mitcham

[Robert Prudhomme]

The wrist, David. Please try to stay focused on the wrist.

If you can't explain how the Magic Bullet went through Connally's wrist, the whole SBT falls apart.

And you know what that means, don't you, Davey boy? That means another bullet, one that could not have been fired from Oswald's rifle. That means another shooter, and that spells C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y in plain old English. Unless, of course, just by remarkable coincidence, you believe there were two lone nuts in Dealy Plaza that day, acting independently of each other.

Now, tell me again how Connally managed to rotate his wrist far enough back to allow the Magic Bullet to pass between his ulna and radius bones.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Robert Prudhomme

[David Von Pein]

Mark Knight said:

Mr. Von Pein is operating from the conclusion that the SBT is "fact," and then examining which evidence to keep and which to discard based upon the conclusion. The rest of us are examining the facts, and then drawing conclusions based upon our interpretation of those facts.

And you, therefore, are saying I have not drawn any kind of reasonable conclusion concerning the SBT based on THIS LIST of facts I already discussed earlier? Are you saying that my list of "facts" aren't really "facts" at all? Is that correct?

And I should just totally ignore ALL SIX of those important things I mentioned in that post because a self-appointed medical analyst has decided that the bullet could not possibly have transited John Kennedy's body or hit Governor Connally's wrist (even though BOTH official investigative committees that were assigned the task of determining the facts of the assassination said that Bullet CE399 did, in fact, do both of those allegedly "impossible" things)?

You must be joking.

Edited January 28, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Ray Mitcham]

David, try answering James Gordon's points. Unless you can, you have to accept that the single bullet theory is a load of rubbish.

Bump again. (Seems like DVP has no answer.)

[Robert Prudhomme]

No, we are not joking, David.

In your own words, please describe the path of the Magic Bullet from the moment it struck the radius bone of Connally's right wrist to the moment it entered Connally's left thigh.

Also, please explain why the bullet did not end its journey at the radius bone.

[Robert Prudhomme]

David von Pein has NO answers.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Robert Prudhomme

[David Von Pein]

I've hashed out all of this stuff with James R. Gordon two years ago. Here's my archived discussion (with links that also go to the original posts made here at The Education Forum)....

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2012/06/jfk-wounds-and-more-sbt-talk.html

Edited May 28, 2014 by David Von Pein

[Robert Prudhomme]

David, does that translate to "I have NO answers to your questions about the wrist wound on Connally"?

Run away, Davey boy, run away!!

[David Von Pein]

No, Bobby boy, it translates to this .... CLICK THE LINK I JUST PROVIDED.

Edited May 28, 2014 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

CE 399 could be from the back wound.

So, you think somehow the bullet dropped out of Kennedy's back and then someone picked it up and hand-carried it to another part of the hospital where this person deposited it on a stretcher in the hallway? Is that about it?

Or did the bullet just ROLL down the corridor and then JUMP onto the stretcher by itself?

Or do you think that KENNEDY'S stretcher was really in the area of Parkland where the bullet was found? Which, if true, would really confuse a whole lot of people, and would probably mean a bunch of people were liars as well.

In short --- Pat Speer's theory about CE399 possibly being from JFK's "back wound" is completely preposterous. And yet Pat thinks it is people like myself--the believers in the SBT--who believe in "imaginary creations" [Pat's quote].

Once more, it's irony at its finest when discussing the JFK assassination with the conspiracy theorists of planet Earth.

Saying something is preposterous does not make it so, David.

Let's look at the facts...YOUR facts.

You have a bullet that never hit bone (while traveling at a high-velocity).

You have a shallow back wound with no entrance into the body.

It's not unreasonable, then, to assume this bullet is related to the back wound.

Now, consider the other factors.

The man finding the bullet believed he'd found it on a stretcher unrelated to the assassination.

NUMEROUS nurses and orderlies were involved in the removal of Connally's clothes, and the movement of his stretcher throughout the building. And yet none of them noticed a bullet falling out of his clothes or sitting on top of his stretcher.

One of the men present when the bullet was found recalled a Secret Service agent standing near the stretcher shortly before its discovery.

Two secret service agents--Kinney and Hickey--performed a partial clean-up of the limo outside Parkland, but were never interviewed on this clean-up. It's known, then, that they took some secrets to their grave. Or not. Last year, a former neighbor of Kinney's, Gary Loucks, came forward and said that Kinney had once told him, over drinks, that he'd planted the bullet on the stretcher.

So, now, REALLY. Whose "theory" is preposterous? The one that has a bullet doing what it can not do (while retaining its condition), and then not being discovered by numerous people who should have discovered it, and then appearing on a different stretcher than the wound it was believed to have been found on? Or the one that holds that a person known to have kept some secrets kept a secret? I mean, c'mon David. I'm following the facts and the evidence. You are not.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Pat Speer