Robert Mady Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) Edited November 2, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) Chris, there is not really any evidence to support that a shot occurred after KENNEDY's throat wound, until the fatal head wound. What you are seeing in the Zapruder film is CONNALLY is saying something to JACKIE, when he is done, he lays back on top of NELLIE, JACKIE then turns her attention to her husband, this happens simultaneously. What you might find interesting is to watch NELLIE and analyze her actions, where is her attention? Remember she claimed KENNEDY was wounded, then CONNALLY, NELLIE claimed then she was forced to reach out and pull CONNALLY who was stunned and not able to move onto her lap. Is this depicted in the film? Very nice gif, what software did you use? Edited November 2, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) The Z-245 shows the location of the first blue camera car at Z-245 The yellow line helps discern where the second blue car was located at Z-241 and Z-249 Second blue camera car contained Robert H. Jackson, photographer The Dallas Times Herald; photographer Tom Dillard, Dallas Morning News Mal Couch, WFAA-TV/ABC Dallas James R. Underwood, KRLD-TV Dallas When they were looking toward the sidewalk in the Hughes film, two shots they claimed they heard, had supposedly already been fired, yet we can see that they are oblivious to this, plus by their own admission they claimed that these shots had not yet occurred. Edited November 2, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Chris, there is not really any evidence to support that a shot occurred after KENNEDY's throat wound, until the fatal head wound. What you are seeing in the Zapruder film is CONNALLY is saying something to JACKIE, when he is done, he lays back on top of NELLIE, JACKIE then turns her attention to her husband, this happens simultaneously. What you might find interesting is to watch NELLIE and analyze her actions, where is her attention? Remember she claimed KENNEDY was wounded, then CONNALLY, NELLIE claimed then she was forced to reach out and pull CONNALLY who was stunned and not able to move onto her lap. Is this depicted in the film? Very nice gif, what software did you use? Robert, The evidence is available, just not in the format you have presented. I'll leave it at that for now, until I'm ready to present. I used Photoshop 4 on the stabilization, manually using layers. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Pat Speer posted : Merriman Smith, a reporter for UPI, sat next to the driver of the blue Impala. After the shots rang out, he picked up the car phone and called the Dallas UPI bureau. As a result his first reports were on the wire before the president's limo even reached the hospital. (11-22-63, 12:34, earliest UPI teletype) "Three shots were fired at President Kennedy's motorcade in downtown Dallas." (11-22-63, 12:39 UPI teletype) “Kennedy seriously wounded, perhaps seriously, perhaps fatally, by assassin's bullet." (11-22-63, 12:45 UPI teletype) "Reporters about five car lengths behind the Chief Executive heard what sounded like three bursts of gunfire. Secret Service agents in a follow-up car quickly unlimbered their automatic rifles. The bubble top of the President's car was down. They drew their pistols, but the damage was done. The President was slumped over in the backseat of the car face down. Connally lay on the floor of the rear seat. It was impossible to tell at once where Kennedy was hit, but bullet wounds in Connally's chest were plainly visible, indicating the gunfire might possibly have come from an automatic weapon. There were three loud bursts. Dallas motorcycle officers escorting the President quickly leaped from their bikes and raced up a grassy knoll Note the points underlined. (11-22-63, 12:46 UPI teletype) “It was impossible to tell at once where Kennedy was hit, but bullet wounds in Connally’s chest were plainly visible, indicating the gunfire might possibly have come from an automatic weapon. There were three loud bursts. Dallas motorcycle officers escorting the President quickly leaped from their bikes and raced up a grassy hill.” (11-22-63, a 12:54 Smith dispatch to UPI) “Some of the Secret Service agents thought the gunfire was from an automatic weapon fired to the right rear of the president's car, probably from a grassy knoll to which police rushed." (11-22-63 statement regarding the number of shots while on the flight back from Dallas, as recalled by reporter Charles Roberts in The Truth About the Assassination, 1967) "Smith had heard three." (Smith’s 11-23-63 Pulitzer-prize winning eyewitness account, published in hundreds of papers) “The procession cleared the center of the business district and turned into a handsome highway that wound through what appeared to be a park. I was riding in the so-called White House press “pool” car, a telephone company vehicle equipped with a mobile radio-telephone. I was in the front seat between a driver from the Telephone Company and Malcolm Kilduff, acting White House press secretary for the President’s Texas tour. Three other pool reporters were wedged in the back seat. Suddenly we heard three loud, almost painfully loud cracks. The first sounded as if it might have been a large firecracker. But the second and third blasts were unmistakable. Gunfire. The President’s car, possibly as much as 150 or 200 yards ahead, seemed to falter briefly. We saw a flurry of activity in the Secret Service follow-up car behind the Chief Executive’s bubble-top limousine…Our car stood still for probably only a few seconds, but it seemed like a lifetime.” (4-14-64 interview with William Manchester, as represented in The Death of a President, 1967) "Smith was not as astute a reporter as he seemed. Despite extensive experience with weapons he had thought the sounds in the plaza were three shots from an automatic weapon, and in a subsequent message he identified them as 'bursts.'" (11-14-66 UPI article found in the Sarasota Herald-Tribune. This version of the article was published in the 11-20-66 Washington Post as well.) “I was only a few hundred feet from John F. Kennedy when he was shot in Dallas. I would swear there were three shots and only three shots fired at his motorcade. The car In which I rode as a press association reporter was not far from the presidential vehicle Itself, and in clear view of it. We were at the point of coming out of an underpass when the first shot was fired. The sound was not entirely crisp and it seemed for a split second like a firecracker, a big one. As we cleared the underpass, then came the second and third shots. The shots were fired smoothly and evenly. There was not the slightest doubt on the front seat of our car that the shots came from a rifle to our rear (and the Book Depository at this point was directly to our rear). We remarked about rifle fire before we knew what had happened to Kennedy, although we had seen him slide from view in the rear of the open White House car...Clint Hill, the Secret Service agent who raced from the follow-up car to the presidential vehicle to shield the fallen leader and his shocked wife, Jacqueline, heard only three shots.” (11-14-66 UPI article found in the Bucks County Courier Times, with the references to the underpass removed from the more prevalent version above. Presumably, an alert editor at this paper caught Smith's mistake.) "I was only a few hundred feet from John F. Kennedy when he was shot in Dallas. I would swear there were three shots and only three fired at his motorcade. The car In which I rode as a press association reporter was not far from the presidential vehicle Itself, and in clear view of it when the first shot was fired. The sound was not entirely crisp and it seemed for a split second like a firecracker, a big one. Then came the second and third shots. The shots were fired smoothly and evenly. There was not the slightest doubt on the front seat of our car that the shots came from a rifle to our rear (and the Book Depository at this point was directly to our rear). We remarked about rifle fire before we knew what had happened to Kennedy, although we had seen him slide from view in the rear of the open White House car. " This is a very crude map. It shows very approximate positions for limo, vehicle smith was riding in and Camera Car #3 that contained reporters from Dallas. Blue cars represent the relative positions of vehicles if the first shot is at Z-190 Yellow cars represent the relative positions of vehicles if the first shot is at Z-313 Now please reread the articles from above. Where was the car Smith rode in when he heard the first shot? Why did he mention seeing the assassination when he would have been unable to see the limo until the shot at Z-313 ? Substitute the word underpass for corner in the article 11-14-66 "Shots came from the rear", Smith was in a sedan, he was sitting in the middle, he could not determine very well where the shots came from could he? Edited November 3, 2014 by Kathy Beckett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) check this out: "There was not the slightest doubt on the front seat of our car that the shots came from a rifle to our rear (and the Book Depository at this point was directly to our rear). " What does this statement mean if the TSBD would have been to the front of the vehicle SMITH was riding when two shots from a high powered rifle were heard? Now imagine that the first shot SMITH hears is when his vehicle is turning the corner onto Elm at Z-313 and then two more shots follow as his vehicle straightens up and then comes to a stop... Edited November 3, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Pat Speer posted: Jack Bell, a reporter for the Associated Press was in the back seat. (11-22-63 AP Bulletin, marked as 12:41 PCS) "Bell reported three shots were fired as the motorcade entered the triple underpass, which leads to the Stemmons Freeway route to Parkland Hospital." (11-22-63 news bulletin on WBAP, moments later) "Bell of the Associated Press says that three shots were fired as the motorcade entered the triple underpass which leads to the Stemmons Freeway route to Parkland Hospital." (11-22-63 news bulletin on WBAP, around 1:00) "Associated Press reporter Jack Bell says the President and Connally were shot as the motorcade entered a triple underpass that leads to the Stemmons Freeway. Bell said a man and a woman were scrambling on an upper level of a walkway that leads to the underpass." (11-23-63 AP article in the Christchurch Star. Christchurch is in New Zealand, 18 hours ahead of Dallas. This was an afternoon paper. As a consequence, this article must have been written within a few hours of the shooting.) “The assassination took place near a three-highway intersection close to the business area of the city. Within seconds of the shooting, Mr. Kennedy slumped over in the back seat of the car, face down. Mr. Connally lay on the floor of the rear seat. Three bursts of gunfire, apparently from automatic weapons, were heard. Secret service men immediately unslung their automatic weapons and pistols. Mrs. Kennedy and the Governor’s wife, who was also in the car, both crouched over the inert forms of their husbands as the car sped towards the hospital.” (11-22-63 eyewitness account written for the Associated Press, found in the 11-22-63 Spokane Spokesman-Review and the 11-23-63 New York Times) "There was a loud bang as though a giant firecracker had exploded in the caverns between the tall buildings we were just leaving behind us. In quick succession there were two other loud reports...The reports sounded like rifle shots. The man in front of me shouted 'My God, they're shooting at the president!' Our driver braked the car sharply and we swung the doors open to leap out. Suddenly the procession, which had halted, shot forward again...As my eye swept the buildings to the right, where the shots--if they really were shots, and it seemed unbelievable--might have come, I saw no significant sign of activity." (Upon arrival at Parkland) "By the time I had covered the distance to the presidential car, Secret Service Men were helping Mrs. Kennedy away. Hospital attendants were aiding Mr. and Mrs. Connally. For an instant I stopped and stared into the back seat. There, face, down, stretched out at full length, lay the President, motionless. His natty business suit seemed hardly rumpled. But there was blood on the floor." (11-22-64 AP article found in the Ada Oklahoma Evening News) "As the motorcade made a right turn off the packed street, suddenly there were only a few waving spectators. Ahead, we rode toward a left turn into a street which led to an underpass. Nearby was a building with a sign which read: 'Texas School Book Depository.' The President's auto, four cars ahead, already had made the turn toward the underpass and we had just completed it when there was a loud report. My first thought was: Those Texans, now they're shooting off giant firecrackers. Then came two more reports, paced possibly five seconds apart. They had the ominous sound of rifle crack. The President's car had stopped. We reporters riding 'pool' scrambled to get out to run ahead. But at almost that instant, a Secret Service man, riding in the front seat of the presidential limousine stood up, phone in hand, and waved the preceding police cruiser on. In that numb moment we all sensed that something horrible might have happened." (4-19-66 Oral History interview performed for the Kennedy Library) "We turned a corner, and there was the Texas Book Depository. Then we turned another corner heading toward an underpass. I thought somebody had set off a cherry bomb. I thought to myself, 'My God, these Texans don't ever know when to quit. They've given the man everything they could. Here they are shooting off firecrackers and cherry bombs.' About three seconds later there was another report, and then there was a third one. By that time everybody thought this was a rifle shooting. So we started to jump out of the car...We started to get out. There was an assistant White House press secretary in there, too. He yelled out as we were just getting out, 'My God, they’re shooting at the President!' We all thought this was probably true, but we didn’t know.There was no way of finding out at this point what was happening because Kennedy’s car was four cars ahead, and we couldn’t see it clearly. And then the motorcade began to move, so we all jumped back in the car. It moved very fast." (11-23-66 AP article found in the Oil City Pennsylvania Derrick) "Three years ago in a sunny midday in Dallas I heard from the fourth car in a motorcade the sound of three rifle shots that killed a president and wounded a governor. There was the sound of three cadenced shots—no more, no fewer. As our car bearing four newsmen, a presidential press aide and a driver turned left in front of the Texas School Book Depository, the first of these rang out. The sound came from above and to our right. It echoed down the canyon-like block of moderately tall buildings behind us. I remember thinking that some over-enthusiastic Dallasite must have exploded a cherry bomb. Then there was a second crack, unmistakably that of a rifle. It was followed in about five seconds by a third. Then there was a moment of awful silence, broken by shrill cries and screams. People scurried toward whatever protection they could find. As we scrambled back into our car, the motorcade, which had halted, was moving again. Up ahead I saw a man, looking fearfully back over his shoulder| and |the book depository building, push a woman down on the grassy knoll that led to an overpass and throw his body protectively over hers. The sounds of the three shots had come from above and to the right of us. To one who had been familiar with shooting ranges they sounded like the cadenced quick fire of an experienced rifleman squeezing off a shot, re-loading by bolt action, firing again and a third time..." Anyway, you get the idea, if we look at the location BELL claims the vehicle was at the moment of the first shot he heard, the vehicle had just turned the corner onto Elm and the TSBD was to the right, that places the limo at the time of the first shot to be at the location depicted in Z-313. Also note both SMITH and BELL are seen conforming to the WC/R storyline, watch the transition they make The shots were first described as three bursts of automatic gunfire, by the next day they are described as the first shot like a GIANT firecracker and two reports spaced some time apart, then finally evenly spaced, distancing projected image away from automatic gunfire. The myth that the first high powered rifle shot was experienced to be like a firecracker begins to be propagated. Edited November 3, 2014 by Robert Mady placed in quote box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Pat Speer, thanks for the posting - Can you understand how these two testimonies actually supports the Assassination Four Shot Model and are in opposition to the WC/R theory? Pat, this analysis shows how the news media began immediately to spin the news to conform to the WC/R theory and to start to create myths to replace facts. Edited November 3, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Pat Speer posted: Robert Baskin, a reporter for the Dallas Morning News, was also in the back seat. (11-23-63 article in the Dallas Morning News) "As the presidential motorcade approached the triple underpass, at the height of the paved hill at Elm and Houston, I was in the 'pool' car three cars back of the President. The President's car had just passed the Texas State Book Depository building when we heard a shot, off to the right. It seemed to come from rather high up. Then we heard two more shots, carefully measured, as though a calm, determined sharp shooter were at work. The Presidential caravan ground to a halt, and suddenly there was a great deal of activity around the President's car. But the impact of the awful act didn't register until we saw people falling down on the streets and frantically trying to find cover. Then we realized it was actual gun fire we had heard." (11-23-63 article in the Dallas Morning News, apparently a re-write of his original account) "Then came the approach to the triple underpass, with the leading cars picking up speed as the crowd thinned out. Over to our right loomed the gaunt structure labeled the Texas School Book Depository. It was 12:30 p.m. The sharp crack of a rifle rang out. But at that moment we couldn't believe it was just that. "What the hell was that?" someone in the car asked. Then there were two more shots, measured carefully. We saw people along the street diving for the ground. Several persons shielded children. Then we knew that the presidential party was under fire. The motorcade ground to a halt. There was a good bit of activity around the President’s car, with Secret Service men running about. Before we could get out of our car, however, police sirens began wailing loudly. The President’s car started up and quickly was going at breakneck speed." (5-15-64 interview with William Manchester, as represented in The Death of a President, 1967) (On the first shot) "Bob Baskin, in his seat behind Kilduff, knew what it was; he was an infantry veteran of the 85th Division, and he looked around wildly for cover." (3-16-74 interview with the Johnson Library) "We heard the first shot ring out and...I instinctively thought it was a rifle shot. Then the other shots followed and I was convinced it was rifle fire. But then this commotion started around the President's car and people were falling to the ground over there. And our press car came to a halt and we were throwing open the back doors to get out, and all of a sudden the thing began to move, and we moved down fast to Parkland." (11-19-78 Dallas Morning News article on the 15th anniversary, based in part on a previously unpublished Baskin account from 1963) "We turned off Main Street and onto Houston for the last leg of the motorcade route to the Trade Mart at almost 12:30. We saw the President's car make the turn onto Elm in front of the Texas School Book Depository, gaining a bit of speed. The press car was halfway down the block before the left turn when the first shots rang out. "What the hell was that?" one of us asked. The motorcade kept moving and we had just turned the corner for the approach to the triple underpass some four seconds later when a second and then a third shot were heard. We came to a halt. Ahead we could see considerable movement around the President's car but couldn't make out what it was all about." Interesting BASKIN twice makes the claim that the first shot occurs when the TSBD is directly to the right of the vehicle he is riding in, then he claims in 1978 the first shot occurs when the press car is halfway down Houston. BASKIN is unequivocal there is not firecracker sounding shots. The three shots are all from a rifle. BASKINS notes a shot then two more or bham....bham.bham. BASKIN like SMITH and BELL place the first shot to occur after they had just turned the corner and the TSBD was on their right. BASKINs accounts also supports the Assassination Four Shot Model and is in direct opposition to the WC/R theory. Edited November 3, 2014 by Robert Mady placed in quote box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Is this graphic explained adequately? The diorama supposedly illustrates the approximate positions of the vehicles at the time Altgens took #6. This diorama supposedly correlates to Zapruder frame z-255. (although we know based on evidence already presented camera car #3 is farther up Houston than is depicted, the cars traveling on Houston should be bunched closer together) You can see WC/R theory requires the news media vehicles would still be traveling on Houston when the first two shots occur, yet the descriptions from the National Press car describe their location to be either turning and along side the TSBD or having already completed the turn onto Elm with SN to their rear when the first two shots are heard. The only way the first shot can occur as the national press car is turning or has turned onto Elm is if the first shot they hear is from a high powered rifle and it occurs at Z-313. Any realizations happening from anybody yet? That the first shot that is heard from a high powered rifle is the cause of the fatal head wound, this scenario is absolutely in accord with the Assassination Four Shot Model, in that these newsmen along with virtually every witness in DP did not hear the silenced first shot that injured KENNEDY in the throat. The timing of the assassination is wrong as perceived by WC/R and all conspiracy theories, this is why the mystery could not be solved. Edited November 3, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Here again is Camera Car #3, the Hughes image would have been taken around Z-245, and yet the occupants are preoccupied by antics on the sidewalk. Two high powered rifle shots have supposedly already been fired, yet the newsmen in Camera car #3 seem to be unaware of rifle fire and are still preoccupied by antics on the sidewalk. It should be clear that although they should be aware of two shots having sounded in DP, in truth they have not heard any shots...yet...because only the first silenced shot, 'firecracker' like sounding shot, has been fired and this was not detected by many witnesses. The first shot they will hear will occur as they approach the turn onto Elm, it will be from a high powered rifle, this will occur at ~Z-313. Edited November 3, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I think you've got it figured out fairly well. The late Tom Purvis, who had copies of the Dealy Plaza surveys, noted that the Secret Service had the last shot occurring around Z-345...which agrees with Altgens' testimony that the President was directly alongside him when the final shot occurred. And of course this was the shot that the FBI and the WC intended to "disappear"...but it actually fits in with the initial testimony of the reporters following the President. To this day, I believe that Purvis had more right about the assassination than he had wrong. Purvis pointed out that the information in the data blocks on the surveys entered into the WC evidence had some of the numbers "fudged," changed from what the original surveys had said. WHO changed the data is unknown; WHY is pretty much a given. Purvis still clung to the "three shots, three hits"...from the SE 6th floor window of the TSBD...with the Carcano...scenario. I was eventually able to get him to admit that, while Oswald was CAPABLE of making the shots, there's no ironclad PROOF that he was the one shooting from there [or anywhere else that day]. And in the thread about Connally's wounds, it would seem that it's nearly been established that, with a right-to-left wound trajectory, Connally likely wasn't shot from the SE window of the 6th floor of the TSBD anyway. So I'm interested in what you're working on here. Carry on, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Mark Knight, I want to thank you for reading the posts and the encouragement, from time to time it is gratifying to know that some people are understanding the message. Unlike Mr. Tom Purvis, I do not recognize evidence promoting any of the shots originating from the TSBD to be reliable or credible, nor was only three shots fired. Please post questions, comments or critical review whenever possible, it will help others and it will help me understand where you are in comprehending the assassination as well as help me continue to refine the truth. Edited November 3, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) The Z-245 shows the location of the first blue camera car at Z-245 The yellow line helps discern where the second blue car was located at Z-241 and Z-249 Second blue camera car contained Robert H. Jackson, photographer The Dallas Times Herald; photographer Tom Dillard, Dallas Morning News Mal Couch, WFAA-TV/ABC Dallas James R. Underwood, KRLD-TV Dallas When they were looking toward the sidewalk in the Hughes film, two shots they claimed they heard, had supposedly already been fired, yet we can see that they are oblivious to this, plus by their own admission they claimed that these shots had not yet occurred. First of all, the yellow line is coming from Hughes' original location. He was at the other location, standing in the street, when the motorcade proceeded up Houston. Second of all, your grab from the Hughes film, which you claim shows camera car #3 at Z-245, shows the car in the crosswalk at Houston and Main, not ha third of the way up the block, where it would need to be to line up with your line from Zapruder. Edited November 3, 2014 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Pat can you indicate where HUGHES was located when he filmed the footage? HUGHES location does not alter the location of Camera Car #2 as seen in the back ground of the Zapruder film in Z-245. The approximate location proposed for Camera Car #3 can not be far off from what has been posted. And with absolute certainty according to the WC/R theory two shots from a high powered rifle had already occurred by Z-245. Edited November 3, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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