Jon G. Tidd Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Robert Mady @post #119: In 1963 I had a Crosman CO2-powered pellet rifle, .22 cal. It fired pellets and darts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Unfortunately, compressed gas weapons are limited to subsonic velocities, well below the speed of sound, and would be very inaccurate at any range beyond almost point blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 If not I would like to know why you are holding onto the belief that ROSEMARY was reacting to a noise? Sir - I've done the work and that's how I know what you are doing is so shameful... I posted her statements from later on when she had a chance to recount the story: Rosemary: As they made the turn from Houston to Elm Street, they'd just gone a few feet when the first shot rang out, Bill Newman: When his car was probably a hundred fifty feet or so from us, the first two shots rang out: and it was a boom! (smacks his hand) boom! (smacks his hand again) like that. And at that moment, I didn't even realize that it was gunfire. But as the car got closer to us, you could tell something was wrong. You could see the president kind of looking at the crowd, you could see Governor Connally sort of stretched out, holding himself, eyes protruding, you could see the blood on him -- you know it's just moments or seconds we're dealing with -- just as the car got right in front of us, the president was probably...some ten or twelve feet from me, maybe, or even less. The third shot rang out -- boom! (slaps hand again) and I can remember seeing the side of his head come off. Forget the movie frames which help to confirm her story... this statement is only one of many I've posted to illustrate your misreading of the eviden I'm sorry you dont have the gumption to address why you only posted partial quotes and left out the parts which clarify what they were saying and contradicts what you are asserting... but you haven't even attempted it. When Bill here says "But as the car got closer to us" one can conclude that the 150 feet he referred to was UP ELM, not down.... How many times do witnesses have to say they did not realize the first sound was actually gunfire until after the fact.... but they do say it was a shot which had visible results. Gotta go now Bob... I'm sure that James and Robert are more than your match in discussing what you've done here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Robert, You are now talking nonsense. You said "None of the seven people near the blue dot fired a weapon." At Z 189 JFK is looking to his right: he is looking in the direction of these seven people including Mary Woodward. You also said the "shot at Z-189 inflicted the throat wound." Therefore, because of the nature of the throat wound, JFK was looking in the direction of the gunman. Yet you say it was not one of these seven people. There is no one else in the area facing JFK at this point on Elm Street. If it was not one of these seven people then JFK was not injured at Z 189 because there were only these seven people standing there. Unless you can establish there was another person standing in this location, this theory of your fails. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Robert Prudhomme @ post #122: Robert, the CO2 pellet rifle I had in 1963 would nail a squirrel or a crow at some distance. Not a long distance but beyond point-blank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Jon, Even if you are correct, this idea fails. The images of this area make it clear that only seven people are standing here. There is no image of anyone with a pellet gun. Second, according to Robert Mady, a rifle was not used. So this weapon has to be excluded. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) James I believe Robert is suggesting a compressed gas weapon being fired from the vicinity of the Grassy Knoll, hence, my questioning of the ability of such a subsonic weapon to make this shot. Jon Perhaps I should not have said "point blank". However, I would not have tried this shot, from the Grassy Knoll, with a .22 rimfire rifle, and a .22 is far superior in velocity and accuracy than any CO2 pellet gun. Everyone I hate to keep harping but, the reason the two SS agents are seen looking behind them in Altgens 6 is that they have just received a haircut from a suppressed supersonic bullet going past their skulls. Their obvious reaction is what makes me believe the first shot came from the roof of the laundry van on Houston and Elm. If this shooter had waited any longer, JFK would have been obscured by SS agents. The reason Rosemary Willis and her father heard this bullet breaking the sound barrier, and Mary Woodward and Charles Brehm did not, is that the first two were beside the path of this bullet heading for JFK, while the latter two were well ahead of the path of the bullet. The "crack" of a suppressed supersonic bullet is a very localized sound, and this is precisely why suppressors are employed on high powered rifles; in order to spread confusion. Edited December 20, 2014 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Yes Robert that is what I am saying in this tread, it is the first rifle shot HEARD in DP. it is definitely not the first shot fired, the first shot being most silent. Robert lets us agree to disagree on any shot prior to the shot at Z-313 at this time. What is imperative for researches to understand is that they have a misconception of the assassination with which they have endeavored to locate when shot number 1 and shot number 2 occurred using this erroneous conception of the assassination as a foundation, this is why no one in 51 years has made any sense, because whether you use the WC theory or any conspiracy theory they all started with false concept and that is; there were three shots and the last shot occurred at Z-313. This concept was first broadcast into reality a few minutes after the assassination, three shots, last shot was the head shot, three shots, last shot was the head shot, three shots, last shot was the head shot, they said it so many times it became our reality, we just could not figure our way out. This is why there can NEVER be a solution to the mystery using the current misconceptions of the assassination, because it is not possible using erroneous concepts to determine the truth. Edited December 20, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Robert, You said the following:- "What is imperative for researches to understand is that they have a misconception of the assassination with which they have endeavored to locate when shot number 1 and shot number 2 occurred using this erroneous conception of the assassination as a foundation, this is why no one in 51 years has made any sense, because whether you use the WC theory or any conspiracy theory they all started with false concept and that is; there were three shots and the last shot occurred at Z-313. " In making such a comment you are displaying your utter ignorance of modern JFK research. The Warren Commission believed there were only three bullets, very few others ever said that. Nor is it right that every JFK researcher believes the last shot was fired at Z 313. You have either misunderstood modern JFK research or have never read any serious study. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Robert, If Robert Mady believes "a compressed gas weapon being fired from the vicinity of the Grassy Knoll" was responsible for the throat wound - it is just another indicator that he has no idea what he is talking about. His thesis is that the throat wound occurred at Z 189. However at that point JFK's throat is turned towards his right. Therefore any shot from the grassy knoll may strike JFK, but will not penetrate where the throat wound is, because that is now obscured from the sight from anyone on the grassy knoll. If that really is his theory then there is another nail in that coffin. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 James You have to admit, though, it is slightly more believable than the rocket propelled, dissolved-by-blood, poisoned flechettes that Greg Burnham was always going on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 James, I did not say a rifle was not used, I said a conventional rifle + silencer was not used / a rifle that utilized chemically reactive cartridges. The compressed gas weapon most probably utilized did look similar to a regular rifle, but how can we speculate further and why would it be necessary to define this detail ? When it becomes a reality that KENNDEY was struck in the throat at Z-189 using a compressed gas weapon, someone will determine what weapon would have been a candidate with technology that would be required. Instead of picking away at what is being presented why not look at the questions that are fully answered by the evidence being presented. IF the first shot was very silent ~Z-189 IF the second shot was a rifle shot and occurred at Z-313 This simple model is corroborated by all film and every photograph from the assassination. This simple model is corroborated by a significant portion testimony. Can your model do either? Can you post evidence as widespread and in depth as evidence that has been posted in support of your theory or any theory? Why is there no one reacting in Altgens #6 to one or two rifle shots? AND yes a mc police are aware of the commotion in the limo, why wouldn't they be looking. And Yes three agents are looking to the rear, so what? ALTGENS took a photograph while they were scanning to the rear trying to locate the origin of the noise they heard, these men looked to the GK until at least Z-212. Why not stop analyzing what I am posting and study what is being said, do not judge it based on what you know, judge it based on its corroboration with evidence presented. The military was flying the SR-71 at what mock 4 5 6 or 7? but "they" could not design a compressed gas gun to shoot a missile accurately 100 feet? How could you know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Yes, Robert, I'll agree to that. That said, and shifting the conversation away from the present thread, that throat wound is a really strange wound. Although I never subscribed to Greg's theory, I do understand his attempt to find a solution. It just makes no sense. It is a strange, strange wound. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) James, as I don't understand what your objection is. Why would a shot at Z-189 be impossible, have I missed something obvious? What is interesting is that a shot from this location is hidden from the SSA by the freeway sign... Edited December 20, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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